SGOTM 14 - Spooks

[ControlFreak]

Mining of CC is nearly done. I recommend keeping CC at 20spt, giving the hill to AA for more shield count there. With 20spt, build knight for a turn, rush settler then switch to knight for builds every 3 turns +40g.

Inca is on the hit list next turn. We need to gift them the korean island prison, then invade their three towns up north.

 

[ControlFreak]

I think I'm falling behind to klarius, but hope it's because of the flips.

There should be enough troops on Korea to push forward soon.

There are 10 knights on their way to Mayan. That should be enough to start on one town and then hold for reinforcements. More knights and crusaders can be moved from the old zulu area in a couple of turns across the sea. Concentrate on Maya first.

If Korean troops end up in the south, the galleys should push forward and go toward China. Mayan troops can hit India next.

We need to save cash for rushing temples/settlers. I didn't rush much in my turnset, but we need to make culture push asap.

 

[Andronicus]

Got it

I'll wait at least 24 hours for people to give their comments

The good news is no AI has been lost yet, we need to maintain that and speed up our conquests a bit. I dont think we will gain a lot of territory from culture expansion, often a settler will give as many tiles for half the shields. Most territory will come from conquest.

Looking at the military situation.
Currently
7 settlers
19 workers
1 scout (for iron disconnect)
1 pike
83 knights
22 galleys
2 armies (both with 3 units filled - one on homeland, one in Korea)
6 crusaders
2 AC

Egypt - Aztec force
In Japan we have 13 knights, 1 crusader and 4 nearby galleys
I would like to send these to Egypt, leaving now (they can heal on boats), land 8 units in Egypt, make peace, then get booted (would it be to the neutral tiles NW of Egypt, or to Sumerian tiles on Egypt island? - we have rop with Sumeria) whilst galleys return for reinforcements. We break PT when reinforcements arrive. I would also send galley in Celtia for this transport along with 2 other rushed galleys, so 14 units in reinforcement wave. This should be able to take Egypt and Aztecs.

Korea - China - Hittite force
InKorea we have army, 8 healthy knights and (in the injured ranks) 2AC, 3 crusaders, 3 knights. This should sweep Korea aside swiftly, then progress to China, then Hittites. Again we only have 4 galleys avail and will require reinforcements from the homeland. Further galleys need rushing here - I think another 4)

Maya - Sumeria force
En route to Maya we have 12 units (11 knight, 1 crusader) in galleys. These can be reinfored by stragglers in Iroquois (10 knights, 2 galleys - need another galley), Inca (7 knights, 2 galleys - retake flipped towns first), France (3 knights, 2 galleys nearby).
This force should be enough for Maya then progress to Sumeria, ? then Hittites or Aztecs.

India - China - Hittite force
On our homeland we have 18 knights with only 1 galley (on French coast). We need galleys to transport units to India, then to reinforce Korea - China - Hittite force.

There are a number of minor MM issues, mainly involving switching to HM after disconnecting iron (the road SE of the colony can be destroyed to disconnect it - no other iron is connected according to CA2), corrupt towns can max food and hire taxmen, several towns can work coast for increased tax where there would otherwise be over run of shields, GG can s/r settler -> knight.

Any objections to starting temple rushes ... a little culture makes those pesky flips less likely (Paris temple tops my list).
On subject of flips, our biggest risks are near AI capitals. Germany has highest culture putting Arab Assault under threat, Persian culture threatens Osaka and Mongol culture pressures Grand River. I would like to gift all these to AI. Incans to Osaka would put them further from their former homelands reducing flip risk there, perhaps Arabs shifted to Grand River and maybe move Celts to Arab Assault.
Penal Colony has our army sitting in it with CA2 flip estimation of 7.7-16.6%, I think I'll move it.

 

[ControlFreak]

I agree with all points. Beware, CF ramblings coming...

I rushed three or four galleys but it was obviously not enough. One problem I found is that leaving continents completely devoid of units left us vulnerable to flips and random landings. The few galleys (Home-Celt, Home-France, France-Inca, Home Korea) are there as ferries making the tasks of responding to threats much more timely. If they are needed elsewhere, by all means move them, but plan on replacing them quickly, or you'll which you had.

Flips were a huge problem on my turnset. The Japan ones were expected, the Inca ones were just unlucky. I agree that move the incan and iro capitols to the south will help. giving away the big flip risks makes perfect sense because at this stage, there won't be more than 20 turns left to worry about an AI recovering.

Note that even with Japan's capitol way up in the north, they are still a 15% flip risk for the southern towns. I'm not sure I would pull all the units off of that island, but agree that their next stop is Egypt with some backup. I like the plan of dropping them off and letting Egypt put them aside for us until we return.

I did not give Korea any prison before attacking them because there weren't any good candidates. I figured by the end of their conquest, we would have prisons galore and we could fake peace, gift their prison and then take the last tundra city on their island.

Paris is definitely a good temple rush, I almost did it myself, but figured I'd be passing to Andro who could have the final word.

I have many worker stacks making their way back to the core to help finish up the MM. Two stacks consist of 8 and 10 slaves that could be better allocated into 12 and 6 for mining. There's still productive work that can be done, the irrigation of the outskirts has outpaced the ability to rush settlers. We actually could have had three more 50% productive cities with barracks and 10spt if we had kept the workers home.

I'm sure you'll find the optimal tile distribution, but I was thinking about getting the hill from CC to AA so that both could hit 20spt. Not sure if that's better, or if CC getting to 23.5spt and AA staying at 18spt is better for knight production. GG seemed optimal but the towns to it's NE could be developed more and made bigger. There's also a size six town on the lake NW of the iron colony That can have workers joined to it to make it reduce unit cost and add to the treasury. The other river/lake towns I tried to get to >=7.

I just disconnected the iron from American island last turn. I didn't cut our iron and switch to horsemen because I thought you could easily burn through our cash reserve on rushing temples/galleys/settlers. If you have ample supply then by all means disconnect again.

There are three Japanese galleys up by former Ottoman territory, but they are all empty, having dumped their load in France.

I left a scouting galley by India so you could see the units piled on the shore. Pairs of spear/sword seems like their method of operation which could make it painful to find a landing site.

I've left most of the military units unmoved this turn, hoping you could use the moves as a way to get refreshed with the game. It took me forever to find everything.

Greece is doing very well with our luxuries, but we don't have anything more to sell to them. They were also willing to give us a ROP for 4gpt (we pay) if that makes sense. I haven't checked for available gpt from other civs.

 

[Paul#42]

Good progress.

Good idea to switch to five turns imo. Keeps players' concentration up und stresses strategy discussion and planning.

I'll post some thoughts later.

 

[Andronicus]

I just disconnected the iron from American island last turn. I didn't cut our iron and switch to horsemen because I thought you could easily burn through our cash reserve on rushing temples/galleys/settlers. If you have ample supply then by all means disconnect again.

Ah, that explains it, apologies ...

I think I will disconnect, after s/r several LBs and switching back to knights in 15spt towns that already have 30 shields in the box.

I think we still need another 10-15 turns maxing out knight production before switching to wholesale temple and settler rush.

 

[ControlFreak]

Ah, that explains it, apologies ...

You don't need to apologize for critique, I can always use comments, or explain things better. But thanks.

I think we still need another 10-15 turns maxing out knight production before switching to wholesale temple and settler rush.

You're probably right to do this. There are some things that don't come across in turn logs. In my set it felt like the first couple of turns I had plenty of knights and then production went into a lull, and later I got another slug of knights that needed to be closer to the front faster. I think what happened is our production is rather "chunky", getting a bunch of knights at once, then nothing for a few turns. Just something to watch for when you think we have too many or too few.

Just remember that temples take ten turns to have a border expansion, so don't wait too long. Klarius has been at 640AD for a while, so that's my target date.

 

[Paul#42]

Just remember that temples take ten turns to have a border expansion, so don't wait too long.

It's five turns to get 10c with a 2cpt building.
Don't build too many 1cpt palaces...

If we make it a perfect timing to the target date we build a bunch of temples in t-5 and maybe some libs in t-4.

 

[ControlFreak]

You're right about the temples. Sorry. Also, I see that klarius has now posted at 690AD.

 

[Paul#42]

That Korean peninsula makes a perfect prison: Up to five sites easily to seperate (if necessary) by a mere five units. Rough territory. We might rush a settler in Namp'o and found on the hill E-NE as soon as we break with India.

To attack India we might want to start by placing some DEF3-units on the mountains and dow. Did that work against the Iroquois or did we not use that tactics?

Mayas have a town on Chinese soil. Would they carry some units over if we allied one of them against the other?


One more time I'd suggest to pick off those units in those reservations up north, take slaves and pillage improvements.
We won't be happy if anybody invades an undefended capital...
There's even no need to care for peace treaties anymore imo.

Agree to start rushing temples.
Have those cultural expansions in mind when you place new towns. No need to fill even the larger gaps immediately, sometimes it's more effective to extend our borders to get tiles we won't get by culture.
example: N-NW of Grand River imo is stronger than 3NW, because it gets three more coastal tiles (to NE) without needing a temple. The gap is filled just by Salamanca expansion.
Similar near Paris: 2NE of Paris is best, gains two more tiles from Rheims.

Edit: I see a lot of desert tiles being worked.
We need to mm outside our core - at least once per set.
No need to build roads in former Russia - not on hills nor in jungle and even not on grassland unless it's needed to move units quicker. Just irrigate and leave without roading.
No need to road former Celts land - rather join the slaves to speed up the settlers. Or move them to other island where they can irrigate for tax farms.

 

[ControlFreak]

That Korean peninsula makes a perfect prison: Up to five sites easily to seperate (if necessary) by a mere five units. Rough territory. We might rush a settler in Namp'o and found on the hill E-NE as soon as we break with India.

Definitely. That's why I wanted to go that route before france.

To attack India we might want to start by placing some DEF3-units on the mountains and dow. Did that work against the Iroquois or did we not use that tactics?

The trouble will be galley space getting these units there, as well as the slow walking units themselves. If we have gold and want to rush regular units from the shore cities, them I'm OK with it.

One more time I'd suggest to pick off those units in those reservations up north, take slaves and pillage improvements.
We won't be happy if anybody invades an undefended capital...
There's even no need to care for peace treaties anymore imo.

I was trying to respect the peace treaties, but you're right, there's no need. Invade now. Or better yet, get Korea setup, gift and retake the territory for ours.

Agree to start rushing temples.
Have those cultural expansions in mind when you place new towns. No need to fill even the larger gaps immediately, sometimes it's more effective to extend our borders to get tiles we won't get by culture.
example: N-NW of Grand River imo is stronger than 3NW, because it gets three more coastal tiles (to NE) without needing a temple. The gap is filled just by Salamanca expansion.
Similar near Paris: 2NE of Paris is best, gains two more tiles from Rheims.

I agree.

Edit: I see a lot of desert tiles being worked.
We need to mm outside our core - at least once per set.
No need to build roads in former Russia - not on hills nor in jungle and even not on grassland unless it's needed to move units quicker. Just irrigate and leave without roading.
No need to road former Celts land - rather join the slaves to speed up the settlers. Or move them to other island where they can irrigate for tax farms.

My bad on the MM of non-core towns...I didn't.

Roads being built I felt were necessary for troop expansion. Other than that, most workers are heading to the core for more development, or irrigating something useless.
Moving workers with precious galleys seems a waste. And most towns are growing well enough for settlers.

 

[Andronicus]

Played 1 turn, not much has happened (spent several hours on the pre turn)
Got a big night out planned so I wish you all Happy New Year, and I'll complete my turns tomorrow morning.

 

[ControlFreak]

:

 

[Paul#42]

Well, Andro is already in 2009, Mark, Più and me will follow in 2.5 hours.
Some of you will enter a bit later, but we will be waiting for you

Have a good party everybody and a great new year!

 

[Andronicus]

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm14/Spooks_SG014_AD0450_01.SAV

Pre turn 350AD
Shortrush LBs -> knights in SS and HH (HH -> 15spt); granary -> knight DoD (give shield to XX so 10spt) and EE; settler -> knight in GG
Disconnect iron
Switch knight builds to horse
Sell unwanted buildings (granaries in CC and Kufah; harbor in Babylon, Ashur, Guarda; rax in Niagra Falls)
Too many settler builds, switch some to galleys, a few early builds to wealth
Encourage growth to get to size 7 in towns we are paying for a duct (eg Mecca)
Rush settler - Cuzco, St P, Orleans, Washington, Niagra Falls
Rush temple - Paris, Isandhlwana, ZZ, Lugdunum
Rush galley Babylon, Ashur, Ollantaytambo, Emerita, Luanda

Gift Osaka to French
Gift Arab Assault to Celts (rename Brennus Base)
Gift Grand River to Babylon (rename Hammie's Home)
Japan pay 3g for peace
Trade ivory to Persia for 8gpt

Knock out stack of 4 Korean spears, no losses, 1 retreat [4-0]
See Pusan defended by vet pike
Move army out of Penal Colony

We end up with 48g but making 743gpt

IT
Knights - CC, EE
Settlers - Cuzco, Washington, Niagra Falls, St P, Orleans
Temples - Paris. Lugdunum, Isand, ZZ
Galleys - Babylon, Ashur, Ollantay, Emerita, Luanda
HM - QQ, FF

Chinese landing at Kufah

360AD
Dispose of Chinese spear / warrior, no loss
Settle Cacela on Kufah island
Setle Alcobaca in ex-America

Embassy with Mayans for 66g
- capital has ToA, Great Wall and 17 defenders, but no iron
ROP costs us 1 lux, I do the deal

In Korea, army d 2 pikes, still vet pikes defend, I wait for reinforcements

Dow Incans - this sparks some WW
- knock out 2 archers and pillage roads around LL [10-0]

I debate a while whether to put lux to 10%, this costs us 36gpt, but otherwise we lose WLTK day in many core cities stuffing up the careful MM. I decide to sell Mayans Engineering and Chivalry for wool as I think it will take a few turns before my dow on them and the extra lux solves our happiness issues. We need to remember we lose this when we dow Mayans, I plan rushing a harbour in ex Japan before that for dyes. Wool from Mongols would be more than 60gpt.

Rush temple in Tiwanaku, Satsuma and Rio

Sell incense to Persia for 9gpt

My early feel for these turns is its much tougher than I expected with all the units built up on these islands. We probably need 20-30 units in each attack force.

IT
We lose 2 knights to Korean MDI [10-2]
Egypt land spear / sword in Celtia adjacent Entremont (we have only 1 knight on island)
China land another spear / warrior pair at Kufah
Russian LB threatens Paris

Temples complete in Tiwanaku, Satsuma, Rio
Knight completes HH, GG, AA, SS
HM completes BB
Settler completes OO, MGM
Crusader produced



370AD
I divert a galley en route to Egypt, 2 knights dropped off in Avis. It takes 3 knights to defeat the Egypt pair as the first withdraws
Dispatch Russian LB with eKnight
Dispose of Chinese pair with injured knights [15-2]

Battle for Pusan
Army redlined d pike; AC lose 1 win1 v pikes; knights withdraw, win 1 v pikes, win 2 v MDI, win 2 v injured pikes (7-1) -> capture [22-3]
Sell court, harbour and rax, leave empty to try to encourage Koreans to leave Pyongyang

Battle for Corihuay..
Lose an elite knight taking out 2 spears -> capture (2-1)

Battle for Machu Picchu
2 elites win but both redlined v reg spears -> capture (2-0) [26-4]

Settle Bisau, New Lisbon, Braga and Lourenco
Settler in place (not fortified) to settle NE corner Korea as soon as we dow India (on Indian territory)
Mining projects at CC complete, now 24spt so 3 turn knights
Rush harbour in Tokyo - to bring dyes to homeland
Reconnect iron and upgrade 3 HM (we now have 92 knights and finally rank as strong to Romans)

IT
Settler build Entremont, Badajoz
HM built MM, RR
Praia deposes to French, no units lost
Tokyo builds harbour and we have 9 lux

380AD
Army cuts down an Incan spear leaving LL [27-4]
Joan will keep till next turn

Battle for Pyong.
Knights go retreat, 2 wins v pikes, w v MDI -> capture (with treb) [30-4]
Sell market, rax, court, harbour.

6 knights landed adjacent Memphis, PT obtained, wait for boot

Settle Viseu, Goa
Rush temple Lourenco M., Edo, Salamanca, Niagra Falls
Upgrade 2 HM
s/r settler -> knight in GG

Sell dyes to Greece for 13gpt
Greece and Persia have PP - contacts sellable, get 35g

IT
Arabs request peace (are they giving WH?), I decide not to at present
Egypt boots our knights, unfortunately to island NW of Egypt, not Sumerian territory in Egypt island

Knight CC
HM - HH, QQ, SS, DoD, EE
AC is produced
Settler - Avis
Temple - Salamanca, Niagra Falls, Edo, Lourenco M
Pusan riots as 2 resistors suppressed

390AD
Upgrade 5 HM
Hurry settler in Kyoto
Settle Diu, Tavira

dow France
Army retakes Praia from 1 spear
Knights d spear and warrior, army d last spear and Joan's Jail is taken, capital moves to Osaka

[34-4]

eKnight d Russian LB threatening Paris [35-4]
PT Russia for 18gpt + 20g

IT
We get our first batch of culture expansions
Lots of resistances end
Knight - GG
HM - FF
Settler - Kyoto

400AD
Battle for Seoul
- knights retreat 2 and win 3 v pikes, w 1 v MDI (4-0)-> capture, sell market, harbour, rax, court.
Peace with Korea for 8gpt + 3g
Peace with Arabs
Hurry settler in Kufah (chop will speed temple)

Game crashes when I press F3 to check military adviser!!!
Reload 400AD autosave

Battle for Seoul - this time we lose 1 knight (4-1), sell same buildings, make same PT [39-5]

PT Arabs again
Hurry settler in Kufah again, also in Pusan
Rush temple in Tokyo and Braga
Settle Porto in Korea at Korean end of Homeland - Korean ferry, also New Oporto
Upgrade 1 HM

Time to dow Celts and shift their home
At Brennus Home - knights d 2 spear and a warrior nearby, spear holds [42-5]

Gift Penal Colony to Korea (after renaming Korean Corral) - Wang wonders what we are up to
Pillage iron by Seoul

We are now making 842gpt

IT
Galley d Chinese galley [43-5]
Greece boot our units near Egypt

HM - YY, BB, SS
Knight - AA
Settler - Pusan, Kufah
Temple - Tokyo, Braga

410AD
Start transporting troops to China
Upgrade 3 HM

Battle for Brennus Home - kill one spear, there's more [44-5]

Settle New Guimares
Last of Egyptian fleet sets sail (ETA 3 turns)
MA Mayans v Chinese for 240gpt (to try to get Chinese forces to go to north end of island where Mayan town is)
dow Mayans, settle Mayan Misery

Battle of Copan
Knights retreat twice, win 6, lose 2 (second win gives MGL -> army (in view of large number of Mayan units and presence of pikes I form another 3 knight army). Reg pike now on top. (6-2) [50-7]
Move all units out of Mayan Misery to ensure we take Copan next turn, gift to Sumeria whom we have rop (but Mayans do not).

Rush settler in Seoul, Pyongyang
Rush temple Machu Picchu
Sell fur to Germany for 7gpt, to Persia for 9gpt

IT
We lose 2 knights and empty galley to Mayans, they lose 2 JTs [52-10]
Knight - CC, HH
HM - QQ, DoD, EE, XX
Galley - NN
Settler - Seoul, Pyongyang
A crusader is produced
Temple - Machu Picchu

420AD
Battle for Brennus Home cont
knights d 2 spears -> capture
upgrade 4 HM

Settle NewLagos, New Emerita

Battle for Copan
Knights d 5 units (pike, JTs and horse) without loss
Clear 9 units from surrounds with loss of 1 crusader and a knight [66-12]
A stack of 10 units has left Chicken Itza so the capital should be less heavily defended when we get there

Chinese landing - 10 units land by Nanking
Rush 4 settlers, also temple in Lyons
Trade 3 lux to Mongols for 31gpt, dyes to Germany for 12gpt
Now making over 950gpt (no longer any unit costs)

IT
Sumerian rop expires, reneg PT to include rop
Chinese land HM at Pusan

Knight - GG
HM - SS, MM, RR
Settler - Moscow, JJ, Yakust, The Crypt, Silk City, Pederneira
Temple - Lyons

430AD
At Pusan, crusader kills HM [67-12]
Battle for Nanking, crusaders d 2 spears -> capture
More reinforcements sent from Korea

At Copan 10-0 4th win -> MGL (rushes pentagon for cultural expansion) [77-12]
Settle New Sagres

14 units unloaded in Egypt, galleys move to pick up booted group in Greece

Upgrade 3 HM
Settle Dont Gift - I'm Iron
Rush temple in Kufah, Lisbon

IT
Egypt ask us to withdraw, we refuse -> war
Our knights on mountain defeat 2 swords and a WC [80-12]
Hittites land 3MC at Kyoto
Pentagon built in Copan
HM - HH
Galley - Sao Paulo
Temple - Kufah, Lisbon

440AD
Eliminate 3MC at Kyoto

At Copan - kill 5 units, main force adjacent Chicken Itza [85-12]

At Shanghai
lose AC, knight and 2 withdraws to one spear, other 2 go down with no loss (3-2) -> capture, sell granary [88-14]

At Thebes
Go 5-2 with 2 withdrawls, 2 redlined units remain [93-16]

Settle New Coimbra
Upgrade a HM

IT
Maya request PT - I decline now, but we will need one soon so we can gift them their reservation
At Thebes, an Egyptian sword only manages to promote a knight, 3 or 4 units enter Thebes [94-16]

Knight - CC, AA
Settler - NY, JT
Galley - Alesia
HM - QQ, BB, SS, DoD, EE, FF

Nanking deposes losing 2 crusaders [94-18]

450AD
Upgrade 6 HM
Settle New Leira
Lable settlers with proposed settling sites

I leave most units with their movement remaining

Note I did not give Maya, Egypt and China a reservation yet
Incans have refused our envoy so have not been able to give them a more distant home.
Should get Chicken Itza this turn, Mayans will accept peace so can give them a reservation before booting them off their island.
Chinese forces may require reinforcements, they will make peace (maybe give the ex Mayan town to their north (I didnt check) once we can move troops from Maya.
Indian troops being deposited whilst ROP still in place, not many turns left.
Egypt stalled a bit, but they have had heavy losses and we should soon make progress there.

There's a few working parties planting and chopping to save cash - I think I left a build on palace to direct one chop (in the northern part of ex Babylon)

Have fun, its long past my bedtime

 

[Yilar]

Looks good , we are still ahead of Team Klarius. We have 24 turns to get 700 or so tiles

There are a few things that I'm wondering about. Now that we have begun building temples should we sell them again once we get the cultural land effect? We can get 15g for every temple we sell.

Also building a libary in Isandhlwana would allow it grow twice (100 cult pts) giving us the last 2 tiles which we cannot get to otherwise. Problem is that it costs almost 320g to rush and is it really worth it then?

 

[Andronicus]

Now that we have begun building temples should we sell them again once we get the cultural land effect? We can get 15g for every temple we sell.

Also building a libary in Isandhlwana would allow it grow twice (100 cult pts) giving us the last 2 tiles which we cannot get to otherwise. Problem is that it costs almost 320g to rush and is it really worth it then?

I have already commenced selling off temples after gaining the cultural expansion. I have deliberately avoiding selling those adjoining AI as we want to squeeze their retreats with superior culture (2cpt temple over riding 1cpt palace).

I thought about double expansion in Isand, but decided its probably not worth it. There are a lot of potential temples we could buy, but these are generally giving only 2-3 shields. Rushing military and settlers remains the most cost effective way of expanding territory, although in 10 turns time its debatable whether new military would see action unless we can put some ship chains in place. Most settler sites (other than the settlers I have already labelled) are on islands where we are still fighting (Egypt, Maya, China) or yet to fight (Sumeria, Hittites, Aztecs). Rushing there after suppressing resistors should be number 1 priority.

Notes to next player (Paul)
- I have done no MM of cities yet this turn (it was 2am when I eventually went to bed and each turn I was spending well over an hour).

All pike builds need to be switched to horses once iron is disconnected.
Foreign citizens are being starved in newly conquered cities
In corrupt areas my general rule has been to work 3fpt tiles till can support max number of taxmen, then set to taxmen with no growth. A couple of towns I have oscillated between growth and starvation cycles.
I think I removed all governors, but you better check - I use governors when I am suppressing resistors and expect riots otherwise.
Also I had all knights on the homeland on go to towards the SE tip where they meet galleys bound for India. I'm pretty sure they are no longer on "go to" (crosses fingers).
There are some units waiting off the west coast for new galleys - these are to reinforce Egyptian campaign.
Wang can be removed from Wonson anytime, the sooner the better as it will reduce flip risks in ex Korea
Dont forget we need reservations for Egypt, China and Maya before removing them from their island (Maya and Chinese are prepared to talk)
I have been very liberal with our luxes to Greece, Persia, Mongols and Germany. I'm not sure whether they have Education yet (PP has been out for quite some time), but if they did start building Cop's, perhaps we could buy astronomy for reneg peace gpt then declare so we could upgrade galleys (just a thought, I dont think it will happen)

edit
I have sailed a few knights to ex America to remove Hammie to his new home (in old Iroq). This will free up area for settling.
If 5 turns is too early for dowing India, I did manage to extend the rop with Sumeria by linking it to reneg PT (I hadnt thought I would be able to do that, not sure it will necessarily work with India as Sumeria had relatively few contacts at the time). OTOH 5 turns should see enough units in India to commence battle.
Shanghai is listed as 0.6-23.6% flip risk by CA2 (I dont recall seeing such wide variation before, anyone know what this means?). Other sig risks are in Korea, so move Wang's capital away (he already has a corral in our northern tundra).

 

[denyd]

I didn't notice us getting Education and you mentioned that the Mayans had TOA. Is TOA continental or world wide? If WW that would handle expansions for the rest of the game.

How close are we to 67% for population? I'd hate to reach the land requirement and have to wait to reach the population number.

 

[Paul#42]

I didn't notice us getting Education and you mentioned that the Mayans had TOA. Is TOA continental or world wide? If WW that would handle expansions for the rest of the game.

It affects only the continent.
Otherwise we would already have it...

How close are we to 67% for population? I'd hate to reach the land requirement and have to wait to reach the population number.

Good call. We should keep that in focus.

 

[Yilar]

If it really comes down to that, we have like 30 workers we can join

Right now we are at 40% land and 44% pop. I don't really think pop is gonna be an issue, but lets see.

Once we capture the mayan cap, we will have ToA and all the cities on the mayan island will get a temple, building temples there is a bit of a waste. This also means we should wait a couple of turns before demanding any techs.