SGOTM 14 - Unusual Suspects

Nice sleuthing, kcd! I think it's very likely you're right. But can we keep running artists in one city (Houston or LA) just in case? The other can switch to merchants.

After Rifling and Astro I urge Chemistry for frigates--knocking down coastal city defenses will save countless horses' lives. ;)

Regarding AP votes, note that our voting weight is currently doubled because we're running Confusion and not Free Religion. If we go back to FR we can probably still stop resolutions but we'd need to spread the Word to more cities. Consider building a monastery in Boston or SF; the only other one we have is in Wash. Mona's will be going obsolete pretty soon--do we get to keep the 2-hammer bonus??

Give my vote little weight, but I guess we should do the Lib'ism trade ASAP. Note that Astro obsoletes monuments so we'll be losing 1 happiness in several cities. Wash will want an observatory.

I think keeping one city high in artist gpp is probably a good idea. Not one with wonders, though, because we'd like to be able to halt gpp in that city in favor of gsci if needed. An artist will probably come in handy if were doing golden ages, and its a pretty good insurance if that one-tile land doesn't produce Oz for us. Culture won't cross ocean, so the GWall (Mansa has it) ploy won't work I don't think, and an amphibious assault would be needed. Probably more than one galleon, in that case, unless its a weaker unit.

I lke chem after astro, too. It improves workshops, right? And frigates are also good. We'll want to check bulbing opportunities... Astro, Chem, and Physics I see as being bulbable but not sure what order they have to be.

I'm not worried about the happiness... we can probably get resource trades if needed. The peace resolution looks like a good decision :goodjob:, seeing as it will only cost a little negative diplo with England. 10 turns here to get seige to the front and get more/better units probably saves time in the end. Ragnar's not going anywhere. :lol:

I think for the next set we want to get our civics where they need to be at the end of the golden age, be ready to deny resolutions that we don't like. They didn't vote to stop the war before so I doubt they will do it now, but you never know. I think we're pretty much done settling, unless someone has a spot they want. :confused: I think its to kill Ragnar, then Asoka. Lots of coastal cities and the GLH will pay off big, making the captured cities pull their own weight. Doubt there is much more that needs planning at this point. But if Mansa's got Optics he might reveal that tile. If its a mountain we are back to the artist-bulbing, perhaps.:eek: But if not, it won't show us the unit(s) there, I don't think. So don't sell the bank for it. (On second thought, with what banks are worth these days, maybe that's all I'd give up for it) :lol:

I'm eager to see what Yamps is planning! :scan:

Oh yeah... the Parthenon will come in handy, too.
 
I like chem after astro, too. It improves workshops, right? And frigates are also good. We'll want to check bulbing opportunities... Astro, Chem, and Physics I see as being bulbable but not sure what order they have to be.
I already bulbed a good chunk of Chem [my 5th sin of non-permission--I knew there was another]--has to be done before getting Optics, because that opens the Astro, SciMeth, Physics bulbing path. And yes, we want that extra workshop hammer.

But if Mansa's got Optics he might reveal that tile.
Good idea, oh Lord! All the AI can research Astro now, so we should try for the Westie map too/instead. Which reminds me to remind Yamps that we now possess the Eastie map while nobody else does--we should trade it for gold and/or maps, or to make a tech trade work.

[Edit: And another reminder. Asoka has a settler in Ayodh and the ivory and its road are still unpillaged.]
 
Uh, planning will have to wait till the morning, too tired for anything...

I don't think we really need frigates, but since we already have some beakers invested I guess we should finish it. If thouse mountains are just a decoy it's just massive cavalry whipping to get this done. I'd like to get Theocracy too and it makes sense to keep Confu to reduce potential AP issues.
 
Sorry for delays, here's the plan:

Research phase

Trade Banking for Theology (Liz/Genghis) and Liberalism for Economics + Optics. (Monty/Gandhi)

6 turns to GM, Rifling -> Astronomy -> finish Chemistry.

Btw, GM should always go to the ToA city for maximal yield. (Tenochtitlan). There's also a shift + click trick to check cities in the fog.

Total war phase

Shut down all research, switch to espionage. It will be useful to revolt cities and we also have to know how far are our targets from Rifling.

Civics: Police State, Bure, Slavery, Free Market, Theocracy.

We should attack Mali asap, we need that land to reach Oz. The plan is to upgrade all curis to cavalry with our GM and to wage war on two fronts: Ragnar with our exising forces and Mansa with fresh cavalry. Massive whipping, we'll need at least ~30 more cavs. We don't have to attack Asoka just yet, Asoka/Ragnar team research will be slow with Ragnar crippled. We should check, does tech get cheaper for Asoka if we eliminate Ragnar completely?

In the end, we'll have to take out Asoka, Ragnar, Shaka, Mansa and Monty for domination. Pure cavalry war, everything else is too slow and not worth the invested hammers.

Some details, questions and comments:

  • resource deals need revision (we're buying dye from Shaka even though we have that already)
  • we'll need another GG healer, I'll build an explorer for that.
  • we've only produced 1 GG so far, right?
  • how big is Ragnar's main stack? Asoka's?
  • why 10 turns of peace and not cease fire?
  • remember to pillage ivory, get map from Shaka, sell ours for cash. Mansa won't trade his map btw.
  • Sci Method obsolotes Parthenon and monasteries, but hopefully we won't get that far.
  • I don't think great artist bombing would work for Shaka's mountains anyway, but I'm fine with one artist farm for the next 6 turns.
 
Btw, GM should always go to the ToA city for maximal yield. (Tenochtitlan). There's also a shift + click trick to check cities in the fog.
Hmm, Delhi gives the best trade route income; is going for the ToA city always the best? (I'll need to write that one down.) I went with Ulundi for the Trade Mission because I figured we wanted Rifling ASAP and we were pretty well out of cash for 100% research.

We should attack Mali asap, we need that land to reach Oz. The plan is to upgrade all curis to cavalry with our GM and to wage war on two fronts: Ragnar with our existing forces and Mansa with fresh cavalry. Massive whipping, we'll need at least ~30 more cavs... In the end, we'll have to take out Asoka, Ragnar, Shaka, Mansa and Monty for domination. Pure cavalry war, everything else is too slow and not worth the invested hammers.
Why do we need Mali's land to take out Oz when we have open borders? And wouldn't Liz and Khan be easier targets than others, being less technologically advanced (and closer)? Or do they have swarms of units? I'm not experienced with pure horse wars but I would think that bombarding defenses with frigates would be worth it. We can't produce enough EPs (plus spies) to take down enough high-culture city defenses, can we? Sure, we can splat cavalry and overwhelm by numbers but is that most efficient?

  • resource deals need revision (we're buying dye from Shaka even though we have that already)
  • we've only produced 1 GG so far, right?
  • how big is Ragnar's main stack? Asoka's?
  • why 10 turns of peace and not cease fire?
  • remember to pillage ivory, get map from Shaka, sell ours for cash. Mansa won't trade his map btw.
SH left the dye deal as is for diplo points--at the time we wouldn't get anything useful by trading dye to someone else. I think that's still pretty much true so I left it.
We just got a 2nd GG--he's in Boston.
Ragnar had around 15 units in Uppsala last I saw. I think Asoka's main stack is forming in Ayodh; we can probably see it. I'd guess it's getting close to 10 units with more knights on the way.
I debated peace vs ceasefire. It would take close to 10 turns to get all 3 trebs to the Viking front and I wouldn't be able to make any more progress until we got those and cavalry. We also didn't have enough units to hold the Indian front against the forces Asoka was assembling. WW was also becoming a problem. 10 turns to get our forces in good shape again seemed about right and we'd be perfectly safe during that time.

If you can, run artists in the Viking cities--at least the one on the northern border. I'm hoping we can push out our culture border out and save a turn getting the trebs to Uppsala.
 
I think I agree with Yamps. Although Monte's land would give us just as easy access to the 1-tile, we should cripple the fastest techer(s) quickly if we want our cav advantage to last as long as possible. Also agree that beyond Ragnar (and maybe mop-up of Asoka) we want to go without siege... it would just slow us down.

AFAIK, the tech required by a team is established at the beginning of the game and does not change when one member is eliminated. At least in multiplayer I am 100% sure of this. That is why you always gift your teammate a city if he's about to lose the last one of his.

If total war, wouldn't Merc be better than Free Trade? Probably not if we can maintain open borders with someone who isn't running merc, but we need to decide who that will be. Note, war with England would wreck trade routes to others, maybe.

Remember to get a caravel going there as fast as possible. If Oz isn't there then we'd want to be able to alter strategy asap. But more likely, we just want to know what we'll be up against (how many cavs on galleons will be needed, and if amphibious promos are worth anything).

I agree that GA bombing shaka's mountains would probably be slower than getting galleons to the one-tile island. But I also think its ok to get an artist along the way as a Golden Age component if not needed for bombing.

As for splatting cavs against high culture borders... not a big deal. We'll be able to build them in droves, and they ,move fast on roads. Not sure I agree about 0 research and max esp though.... its risky if we do need to get to some higher tech like paras. But maybe thats a risk worth taking, as it would sure speed up the killing. It would mean that spies need to be build and sent out ahead since they are so slow, though. Maybe take one with the caravel after all. (Note, spy in boat cannot be detected, but still counts as stationary in a city... at least it was unless BUFFY adjusted that). Need to start directing EP's then. Also, does running confu as state religion make cheaper spy missions in confu cities, or is that a vanilla thing with owning the shrine I'm thinking of? Must admit my espionage skills are very rudimentary... part of the reason I might feel some discomfort relying on it more than research.

But I have no qualms with the plan, so if I can't report in after comments, no need to wait for me. But I'll try, so the 24hr period should be upheld, after the finalized plan is made.
 
...Also agree that beyond Ragnar (and maybe mop-up of Asoka) we want to go without siege... it would just slow us down.

...Note, war with England would wreck trade routes to others, maybe.

...It would mean that spies need to be build and sent out ahead since they are so slow, though.

Green from me for Yamps to proceed as he thinks best. I was only suggesting siege for Uppsala because it has such a large force and high defenses. Trebs might be handy after that but only if they don't slow things down. And I still think a few frigates would be useful--they're faster than spies, don't have to wait to be used, and can access a lot of cities sequentially without having to go back to the capital (or die on their mission) after each one.

Once we have Astro, trade routes can't be blocked by Liz/Khan. But yeah, Merc'lism vs FT will depend on what the AI run. At the moment I think only one is running Merc. Maybe give them Econ on good terms (later) if we think they'll switch to FT?
 
Total war phase
Shut down all research, switch to espionage. It will be useful to revolt cities and we also have to know how far are our targets from Rifling.

Civics: Police State, Bure, Slavery, Free Market, Theocracy.

We should attack Mali asap, we need that land to reach Oz. The plan is to upgrade all curis to cavalry with our GM and to wage war on two fronts: Ragnar with our exising forces and Mansa with fresh cavalry. Massive whipping, we'll need at least ~30 more cavs. We don't have to attack Asoka just yet, Asoka/Ragnar team research will be slow with Ragnar crippled. We should check, does tech get cheaper for Asoka if we eliminate Ragnar completely?

In the end, we'll have to take out Asoka, Ragnar, Shaka, Mansa and Monty for domination. Pure cavalry war, everything else is too slow and not worth the invested hammers.

I like the plan - agree speed critical. Not a whole lot to add. If we are planning on letting Asoka be for now, we may want to send a couple of cavs to take out the two Iron that Asoka has. Looks like the one Iron is Rags space is no longer available to land. That will stop on Knight/Pike issues.

One idea. If we put a scout (or a couple cavs if we are daring) over by the western mali city, when we declare war, any chance it get transported to the wizard island? I guess if it is a single tile island that won't work, but if there is room???

Good luck - green from me.
 
Hmm, Delhi gives the best trade route income; is going for the ToA city always the best? (I'll need to write that one down.) I went with Ulundi for the Trade Mission because I figured we wanted Rifling ASAP and we were pretty well out of cash for 100% research.

The AI city that would have the highest trade route income with our capital gives the highest yield. (Gold that AI would get, not our trade route income that we see in our cities. Also, the trade route doesn't have to actually exist.) ToA boosts trade routes so it's usually the city to go to.

Why do we need Mali's land to take out Oz when we have open borders? And wouldn't Liz and Khan be easier targets than others, being less technologically advanced (and closer)? Or do they have swarms of units?

To send and produce ships there fast, we'll need ports nearby. We could go with Monty first instead. Gandhi is far, but we could ignore him. In this case, we'd go for Liz and Genghis instead of Shaka/Mali. Liz/Genghis seem equal to Mansa/Shaka at first glance, but we gain logistic access to Oz earlier if we go for M/S. Also, we avoid fighting Gandhi too soon, he's too far to bother with.

In anycase, we should attack somebody else after Ragnar with a new cavalry stack, we can take out Asoka later on. I'll send a caravel around the map to scout for Oz, but that will take too long. We should have cavs ready to attack somebody before that.

I'm not experienced with pure horse wars but I would think that bombarding defenses with frigates would be worth it. We can't produce enough EPs (plus spies) to take down enough high-culture city defenses, can we? Sure, we can splat cavalry and overwhelm by numbers but is that most efficient?

Frigates would be useful, but only for nearby cities. After that we couldn't use them, it would take too much time for them to arrive to the scene. We should use them to mop up Asoka and if we attack Liz, but right now I think we need as big a stack of cavs as possible to push to the west. Same applies for siege, useful locally but then we won't have the time to use it elsewhere.


If total war, wouldn't Merc be better than Free Trade? Probably not if we can maintain open borders with someone who isn't running merc, but we need to decide who that will be. Note, war with England would wreck trade routes to others, maybe.

Hmm, that's a tough choice. Hopefully, it won't matter at all. :) We could gift Economics away if needed.


At sure I agree about 0 research and max esp though.... its risky if we do need to get to some higher tech like paras. But maybe thats a risk worth taking, as it would sure speed up the killing. It would mean that spies need to be build and sent out ahead since they are so slow, though. Maybe take one with the caravel after all. (Note, spy in boat cannot be detected, but still counts as stationary in a city... at least it was unless BUFFY adjusted that). Need to start directing EP's then. Also, does running confu as state religion make cheaper spy missions in confu cities, or is that a vanilla thing with owning the shrine I'm thinking of? Must admit my espionage skills are very rudimentary... part of the reason I might feel some discomfort relying on it more than research.

EE is the strongest economy of them all if there's somebody more advanced to steal from. And if there isn't, then we don't need research, we kill them. :) We'd get bonus from Confu if we steal from civs that don't have Confu as state religion. Also, if we get the Confu holy city our bonus increases. (Shrine is not needed.) Great artist would help as well: capture a city, culture bomb it and gift it back. But I don't think we'll have to go this far. Cavs should be enough to get us close to the domination limit and I believe you're spot on about Oz.



I like the plan - agree speed critical. Not a whole lot to add. If we are planning on letting Asoka be for now, we may want to send a couple of cavs to take out the two Iron that Asoka has. Looks like the one Iron is Rags space is no longer available to land. That will stop on Knight/Pike issues.

I'd like them to build knights, longbows in cities are more difficult. There won't be many pikes to fight and even those are lunch for experienced cavs.

One idea. If we put a scout (or a couple cavs if we are daring) over by the western mali city, when we declare war, any chance it get transported to the wizard island? I guess if it is a single tile island that won't work, but if there is room???

Good luck - green from me.

I guess we'd get transfered to some place on our continent, but let's try this with some unit.
 
Sounds like you've thought of everything (that we're going to think of), Yamps.

I'm just not sure where you plan to stop. At Chemistry? Do we have a reasonable guess as to how many turns that is?

I guess I'd like to see what your stop and pause criteria would be. But I trust you to do make good judgements there, so you're green from me up to chemistry.:goodjob:
 
I've played till T180 1200 AD, 10 turns. At this point I'd like us to invade Asoka/Ragnar again, the peace treaty is over. Asoka has a stack of some 15 units near our borders, but there's a cav stack nearby to take it out.

Highlights:

Research went Rifling -> finish Chemistry (1 turn) and 0% research Astronomy. Chemistry workshops are useful immediately and we don't need Astro right away.

The cash not used for Astro went to curi upgrades, we now have 34 cavs ready for the attack. :D

We got our GM, it's on its way to Monty's land. As a bonus, Ragnar gave us ~800 gold from his GM for Music. :goodjob:

I forgot to mention before, after RP all mines should be replaced with windmills. (1 food and 1 commerce for 1 hammer less.) Commerce is a bonus, 1 food > 1 hammer and the lack of hammers can be raplaced with more workshops instead of farms.

Regarding the whip, I don't think we should whip much cities producing around ~60 hammers per turn, that's a cav every other turn. For the final push though, we should whip to the ground.

I've scouted Mansa and Shaka, they have no big stacks and would be a pushover if we attack soon enough.

------------

I'd like to continue for another ~10 turns , but no time till Friday...

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm14/Unusual_Suspects_SG014_AD1200_01.CivBeyondSwordSave

Spoiler :

Here is your Session Turn Log from 1110 AD to 1200 AD:

Turn 171, 1110 AD: You have discovered Theology!
Turn 171, 1110 AD: You have discovered Economics!
Turn 171, 1110 AD: You have discovered Optics!
Turn 171, 1110 AD: You have constructed a Confucian Temple in Boston. Work has now begun on West Point.
Turn 171, 1110 AD: You have trained a Work Boat in Mathura. Work has now begun on a Granary.

Turn 172, 1120 AD: Confucianism has spread in Philadelphia.
Turn 172, 1120 AD: Abu Bakr (Great Prophet) has been born in Delhi (Good Witch of the West)!

Turn 173, 1130 AD: You have discovered Rifling!
Turn 173, 1130 AD: You have trained a Pikeman in Philadelphia. Work has now begun on The Sistine Chapel.
Turn 173, 1130 AD: You have constructed a Forge in San Francisco. Work has now begun on a Pikeman.
Turn 173, 1130 AD: Good Witch of the West has completed The Masjid al-Haram!

Turn 174, 1140 AD: You have discovered Chemistry!
Turn 174, 1140 AD: You have constructed a Forge in Atlanta. Work has now begun on a Pikeman.
Turn 174, 1140 AD: You have trained a Pikeman in San Francisco. Work has now begun on a Galley.

Turn 175, 1150 AD: You have constructed a Bank in Washington. Work has now begun on a Cavalry.
Turn 175, 1150 AD: Andrew Carnegie (Great Merchant) has been born in Seattle (Dorothy)!
Turn 175, 1150 AD: The borders of Portland have expanded!
Turn 175, 1150 AD: Good Witch of the East adopts Caste System!
Turn 175, 1150 AD: Good Witch of the East adopts Mercantilism!

Turn 176, 1160 AD: Dorothy adopts Police State!
Turn 176, 1160 AD: Dorothy adopts Slavery!
Turn 176, 1160 AD: Dorothy adopts Free Market!
Turn 176, 1160 AD: Dorothy adopts Theocracy!
Turn 176, 1160 AD: You have trained a Galley in Seattle. Work has now begun on a Courthouse.
Turn 176, 1160 AD: Confucianism has spread in Gao.
Turn 176, 1160 AD: Good Witch of the South adopts Free Speech!
Turn 176, 1160 AD: Good Witch of the South adopts Free Religion!
Turn 176, 1160 AD: Minoan (Barbarian) has been captured by the Indian Empire!!!
Turn 176, 1160 AD: Wicked Witch of the North adopts Free Market!
Turn 176, 1160 AD: Good Witch of the North adopts Free Market!

Turn 177, 1170 AD: You have constructed a Courthouse in Boston. Work has now begun on West Point.
Turn 177, 1170 AD: You have trained a Explorer in San Francisco. Work has now begun on a Cavalry.
Turn 177, 1170 AD: You have constructed a Courthouse in Jelling. Work has now begun on a Barracks.
Turn 177, 1170 AD: Wicked Witch of the South has completed The Hagia Sophia!

Turn 178, 1180 AD: Washington can hurry Grocer for 3⇴ with 50ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 178, 1180 AD: Boston can hurry West Point for 6⇴ with 50ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 19 turns.
Turn 178, 1180 AD: San Francisco can hurry Cavalry for 1⇴ with 35ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 178, 1180 AD: Los Angeles has grown to size 8.
Turn 178, 1180 AD: Houston can hurry Worker for 2⇴ with 27ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 18 turns.
Turn 178, 1180 AD: Birka has been pacified.
Turn 178, 1180 AD: Wicked Witch of the West has 310 gold available for trade.
Turn 178, 1180 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 30 ℤ for Shangian.
Turn 178, 1180 AD: New York will grow to size 11 on the next turn.
Turn 178, 1180 AD: You have constructed a Theatre in Birka. Work has now begun on a Barracks.
Turn 178, 1180 AD: Wicked Witch of the South has completed The Sistine Chapel!

Turn 179, 1190 AD: New York has grown to size 11.
Turn 179, 1190 AD: New York can hurry Cavalry for 3⇴ with 42ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 14 turns.
Turn 179, 1190 AD: Philadelphia can hurry Forge for 2⇴ with 30ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 18 turns.
Turn 179, 1190 AD: Atlanta can hurry Cavalry for 1⇴ with 24ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 18 turns.
Turn 179, 1190 AD: Chicago can hurry Cavalry for 1⇴ with 70ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 179, 1190 AD: Seattle can hurry Cavalry for 2⇴ with 23ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 18 turns.
Turn 179, 1190 AD: Los Angeles can hurry Stable for 2⇴ with 39ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 17 turns.
Turn 179, 1190 AD: Shangian can hurry Barracks for 1⇴ with 24ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 18 turns.
Turn 179, 1190 AD: Good Witch of the West has 140 gold available for trade.
Turn 179, 1190 AD: Wicked Witch of the North has 110 gold available for trade.
Turn 179, 1190 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 30 ℤ for Shangian.
Turn 179, 1190 AD: Philadelphia will grow to size 10 on the next turn.
Turn 179, 1190 AD: Seattle will grow to size 6 on the next turn.
Turn 179, 1190 AD: Houston will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
Turn 179, 1190 AD: Mathura will grow to size 2 on the next turn.
Turn 179, 1190 AD: Shangian will grow to size 6 on the next turn.
Turn 179, 1190 AD: Deal Canceled: Sheep to Wicked Witch of the West
Turn 179, 1190 AD: Deal Canceled: Silk to Wicked Witch of the West
Turn 179, 1190 AD: Philadelphia can no longer work on The Sistine Chapel. The lost ℤ is converted into 124ℴ!
Turn 179, 1190 AD: Nabu-rimanni (Great Scientist) has been born in Agra (Good Witch of the East)!

Turn 180, 1200 AD: Chicago will become unhealthy on the next turn.
Turn 180, 1200 AD: San Francisco can hurry Cavalry for 2⇴ with 64ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Houston has grown to size 5.
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Houston can hurry Barracks for 1⇴ with 20ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 26 turns.
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Port Xcal can hurry Worker for 1⇴ with 29ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 16 turns.
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Portland can hurry Worker for 1⇴ with 13ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Mathura has grown to size 2.
Turn 180, 1200 AD: Shangian has grown to size 6.
Turn 180, 1200 AD: The borders of Birka are about to expand.
 
Looks good to me! :goodjob:
So, plan is to attack both Rags and Aso at same time?
Finish them before going to Mansa?

Last turn of golden age, already in desired civics.
Twenty turns until we see what is protecting the wizard.

You asked earlier about why peace treaty instead of cease fire. We got their map and other stuff and other reasons posted.
800 gold from Ragnar :lol:

Blow the trumpet.
 
You built West Point? :) So I are not all dumb? Please explain your reasoning. And you're growing Boston so you can run an Eng and then switch the lake farm to a workshop? Wow, Chicago is a production beast now. :D Maybe chop out a Chouse in StLouis to save money. Don't forget about an observatory in Wash when you get Astro. Annoying that no one will trade their map; Shaka and Mansa can probably see most/all of inside their mountain rings. Let's make sure to demand maps during any peace deals. Any idea how much the Trade Mission will bring? :drool: Where are the trebs going? They don't seem particularly near any city. Building more workers?? 22 isn't enough? :lol: Don't worry, we'll capture more. ;)

What's the tech plan? Geez, 10 turns and none of the AI have Astro yet? Going for Physics and airships just in case? What about that espionage idea? I only see 1 spy--was one caught?

You'll be too busy capturing cities for the detail in my reports, but at least give us a quick city-by-captured-city summary so we can vicariously enjoy your conquests!
 
Annoying that no one will trade their map; Shaka and Mansa can probably see most/all of inside their mountain rings.

What's the tech plan? \ Going for Physics and airships just in case?
Fog gazing on the map we can see, looks like all mtn ranges don't have any open tiles in the middle. In 20 turns we will know about the suspected Emerald City location.
Spoiler :
Not a City as someone pointed out. I wonder, could his airship be in a fort
We can capture 3 workers in one location on 1st turn of war.
 
:agree: :cool:

Green from me for the continuation. It's looking very good. Nice work Yamps! :goodjob:

As I understand it, we aren't going to push to take over Asoka yet, just wipe out his stack while we kill Ragnar. Save the closest civs for last, right? Whatever... I'll watch in amazement and try to learn something. :love:
 
You built West Point? :) So I are not all dumb? Please explain your reasoning.

:lol: Talk about "validation", eh? :lol:

Actually, I'd also be interested in hearing the rationale. But I'll try to figure out the sense of it myself first (since I'm the one who questioned it):

In Boston, WP will give each unit +4XP. With a unit every other turn, that's a lot of XP. Only problem I have is deciding a monetary value to XP. Lets say a Cav costs 120 hammers, and WP costs 400 hammers(with stone). So if the +4XP saves the life of 4 cavs or more, it has paid for itself.

We get +2XP barracks, +2XP stables, +2XP Theocracy, and +4XP WP. So if we take combat promo line, each cav produced there will have +30% strength instead of +20% strength (19.5 strength versus 17 strength). Against tough defenders, thats at least 10% better odds (probably a lot more), so if cavs from Boston see 10 battles we save at least 1 cav. The chance of Boston cavs seeing 40 battles is reasonably high (almost certain, I think) so the WP would pay for itself before this is done.

Note, I'm being very conservative with my assumptions and it still turns out positive to build the WP in Boston. With more generous assumptions, the payoff is potentially huge (and it seems to me that is more likely). Also haven't considered that losing a cav slows us down and gives XP to the defender. So it sounds like its the smart choice... just goes to show if I always go with my own presumptions rather than look at the numbers, I'll never get better. :eek:
 
Looks good to me! :goodjob:
So, plan is to attack both Rags and Aso at same time?
Finish them before going to Mansa?

Last turn of golden age, already in desired civics.
Twenty turns until we see what is protecting the wizard.

You asked earlier about why peace treaty instead of cease fire. We got their map and other stuff and other reasons posted.
800 gold from Ragnar :lol:

Blow the trumpet.

He'd trade the gold with cease fire as well. But it doesn't matter, we needed some time to regroup and to upgrade troops.

I'm not sure how far to push against Ragnar and Asoka, it will depend on their forces. It is important to move fast towards the west, but on the other hand we have our units tighed up in the east while they are still there. It's hard to resist taking them out while they are weak, later on they will build more defensive units. We should have enough for both tasks, in the next 10 turns another stack will be prepared to move against Shaka or Mansa.

You built West Point? :) So I are not all dumb? Please explain your reasoning. And you're growing Boston so you can run an Eng and then switch the lake farm to a workshop? Wow, Chicago is a production beast now. :D Maybe chop out a Chouse in StLouis to save money. Don't forget about an observatory in Wash when you get Astro. Annoying that no one will trade their map; Shaka and Mansa can probably see most/all of inside their mountain rings. Let's make sure to demand maps during any peace deals. Any idea how much the Trade Mission will bring? :drool: Where are the trebs going? They don't seem particularly near any city. Building more workers?? 22 isn't enough? :lol: Don't worry, we'll capture more. ;)

What's the tech plan? Geez, 10 turns and none of the AI have Astro yet? Going for Physics and airships just in case? What about that espionage idea? I only see 1 spy--was one caught?

At this point we should be producing/whipping ~5 cavs each turn so WP didn't seem like a relatively big cost. Experience could be a major factor later on so I took it.

Engineer in Boston should be whipped, but I'd like to avoid 1 pop whips. More cities need terrain changes and micro adjustments, Boston too. Mines to windmills and some farms to workshops for big hammer cities. Smaller cities need farms and workshops later when unhappiness becomes a problem. More workers would be useful, but all of this isn't that important anyway. Ideally, we should have most cities building/whipping cavalry every other turn. Some cities will just build wealth if they are too weak to build units.

I forgot the exact number, it will be around 2000 gold from a trade route. More than we need. :) Let's shut down research after Astro, espionage is more important to choose the target not researching Rifling. Mansa or Monty, we need that land to get closer to suspected Oz location. And yes, one spy was captured. I used the other one for a contra espionage mission, this helped to catch one attacking spy.

Not sure about those trebs, I'll use them somewhere in India in the end. The plan is to DoW and to attack Asoka's stack when he moves out.
 
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