SGOTM 15 - One Short Straw

LowtherCastle · May 17, 2012

Comments:

1. GEL could produce a GP in 14t or less. I'd say Yes to that.
2. We have enough eps on Lizzie to cause a city revolt in London without even having our spy sit there multiple turns. Curiously, London seems to be the cheapest of the cities. Is that a distance thing or are there other factors?
3. Our WW is entirely from Lizzie right now and already astronomical. In cities with several unhappy citizens but no market, we might as well just whip markets, don't you think? Gives us +3 happiness (-1 for whipping) and +25% gpt. (Looks like no furzies on the planet.) Forges would be another possibility.

LowtherCastle · May 17, 2012

On domination: What about a variant that focuses more on HC than Lizzie? Or some balance approach? Just a thought.

Mitchum · May 17, 2012

I think most of the WW is related to Genghis, whom we just killed this turn. I expect WW to go down. Most of our battles with Liz have happened within our own cultural borders if I'm reading ZPV's turnset report properly, so WW shouldn't be too bad with her. ZPV?

Mitchum · May 17, 2012

LowtherCastle said:
On domination: What about a variant that focuses more on HC than Lizzie? Or some balance approach? Just a thought.

A balanced approach sounds like a decent idea. It would give us a chance to take on HC (or Mansa) before he picks up another key military tech or Astronomy.

In any event, we'll have to largely take out 2 of the 3 remaining civs to get there.

ZPV · May 17, 2012

Mitchum said:
I think most of the WW is related to Genghis, whom we just killed this turn. I expect WW to go down. Most of our battles with Liz have happened within our own cultural borders if I'm reading ZPV's turnset report properly, so WW shouldn't be too bad with her. ZPV?

This all happened on Mongolian land, culturally speaking, so we got full WW for it.

Mongolian war weariness is still in effect, until the end of the turn. That was roughly equal to the English WW.

ZPV · May 17, 2012

LowtherCastle said:
On domination: What about a variant that focuses more on HC than Lizzie? Or some balance approach? Just a thought.

We need to pour a lot of resources into Lizzie whether we want to conquer her or not - otherwise she'll just walk one of those Redcoat stacks right into our cities. We can't DoP because she won't talk until Elizabethan times. It's not that much more costly to actually take her cities, now that we have grenadiers, than it is to merely repel her stacks.

Mitchum · May 17, 2012

Dhoom, it looks like you're up to play a few turns if you're able to do so tonight. Otherwise ZPV plays more turns tomorrow I assume.

ZPV · May 17, 2012

Mitchum said:
Dhoom, it looks like you're up to play a few turns if you're able to do so tonight. Otherwise ZPV plays more turns tomorrow I assume.

Exactly.

Dhoomstriker · May 17, 2012

I have family visiting today so I only just checked the thread now. I'm not sure that I'll have time to play this evening.

So, if Domination is so far off that we're going to have to declare war on Mansa + Huayna in order to make it happen... and we'll need to not only capture Cities but let them come out of revolt... it still seems like an AP Victory will be the fastest way to go.

A captured City instantly takes away double votes from Huayna. If we're careful with our calculations, we can even gift captured Cities to Shaka to give Shaka the double votes from said Cities. Doing so actually makes it easier for us not to need "almost exactly 74%" of the votes.

The alternative is to spread Hinduism to Shaka reasonably well and then ask for him to convert Religions 3 turns or less before the voting proposal occurs. Then, he can't be our opponent, no matter how few Cities Huayna has remaining to him.

Dhoomstriker · May 18, 2012

Yeah, sorry, I really don't have time to play this evening. I'll set aside some time for tomorrow evening, though.

ZPV · May 18, 2012

Got it. I'll play a few more turns now.

ZPV · May 18, 2012

AD1310:
GEL gets its specialists, so that a GSomething is due in 14 turns.

AD1320:
Without Mongolian war weariness, our empire is happy, and I don't need to run the culture slider any more either.
We move a stack of Grens, Trebs, and stuff on Turfan, which is defended by 3 redcoats.
I'm saving the cats for Coventry, which will need them more.

AD1330:
We recapture Turfan. Now it'll be easier to get Egyptian-built units to the front.
The galleons rearrange themselves towards a Near-Satsuma->Turfan chain, and a shorter ferry service from Pi and Bulgar to Turfan.

AD1340:
Liz's stack seems to have left Coventry. I'm expecting it to appear soon and march on Turfan. I'll pillage some roads, just in case.
We're getting very close to a blocking AP vote. If I can't quite make it, there is one more option to block a vote - an amphibious attack on Shaka. I'll pause before doing that, though.

IBT: Liz builds the Statue of Liberty. I hope she doesn't go into Emancipation.

AD1350:
We've finally got enough votes to block an AP resolution - just. I'd still like to take out Shaka, so we can deal with the pain of his war weariness now, rather than when English or Persian WW gets really bad.
For that reason, I've paused and uploaded.

ZPV · May 18, 2012

I've played to AD1350.

Spoiler upload log :

We've got some semblance of a stack, so it's time to march on Coventry.
I'll build a Spy right away, to give advance warning of Liz's big stack coming back.

I'd like to kill Shaka now, rather than when WW is more of a pain - we can do it in one turn, and three of his longbows are outside his city.
I just don't see it as feasible to butter him up - the war weariness will cost us a couple of hundred gpt.

We've got our AP blocking vote, with 1 to spare. We're not comfortable yet, but we should be able to maintain that for a few turns at least.

Mitchum · May 18, 2012

Things seem to be well in hand with Liz. Our power is now 1.7x her power. We just need to begin marching on her cities with our stack. WW is going to get bad but it has to be done.

I'm not sure how we can take out Shaka in one turn. We only have 3 grens in the area. What would the odds of an amphibious CII gren vs. a CGIII,drill LB be? It may take 2 turns if we have to land the units, although then we'd face more LBs... Where are his three hidden LBs?

Do you plan to play on soon or are you waiting for feedback on whether to take our Shaka vs. keeping him around later? I'm all for getting rid of him.

ZPV · May 18, 2012

Mitchum said:
Things seem to be well in hand with Liz. Our power is now 1.7x her power. We just need to begin marching on her cities with our stack. WW is going to get bad but it has to be done.

I'm not sure how we can take out Shaka in one turn. We only have 3 grens in the area. What would the odds of an amphibious CII gren vs. a CGIII,drill LB be? It may take 2 turns if we have to land the units, although then we'd face more LBs... Where are his three hidden LBs?

Do you plan to play on soon or are you waiting for feedback on whether to take our Shaka vs. keeping him around later? I'm all for getting rid of him.

I'll play soon.
We have two boats of units ready to take out Shaka

Mitchum · May 18, 2012

Where is the spy being built?

I don't see much whip :mad:

in our cities. If you're not whipping, should we change to Caste System for better workshops and better Merc specialist choices?

Mitchum · May 18, 2012

ZPV said:
I'll play soon.
We have two boats of units ready to take out Shaka

I missed the galleon to the east. :lol:

Play on!!

ZPV · May 18, 2012

Ok, I'm playing.

AD1350, cont'd:
We start to march on Coventry.
We win 2/6 battles at Ondini :mad:

AD1360
The vote is "Return Gaul to Cyrus".
We capture Ondini, but lost uMgungundlovu

AD1370
The AP vote fails. I can whip again.
Shaka finally bites the dust. I should have just landed outside Ondini and sucked up the extra turn of war weariness.
Our stack is now adjacent to Coventry, which has 8 redcoats and a knight. There's another English stack of 6 redcoats and 2 knights, a couple of tiles further into England.

AD1380
The entrance to Mali is up at the top of the map, past the Mongolian ice.
The Battle of Coventry:
We have (after bombarding): 16 Grenadiers, 16 Catapults, 10 Trebs, and 17 other units. She has 14 Redcoats and a knight.
We captured Coventry. We lost 5 trebs, 7 cats, and 3 grenadiers. Not a bad day's work.

AD1390
I considered marching straight on, leaving the wounded grenadiers to heal, but there's a small stack of redcoats waiting, and if it moves to a city, I'll need the extra grens to capture it. Canterbury and Hastings are both defended by about 4-5 Redcoats.

It's time to start organizing for the war on Cyrus - some Zulu-built units will aid the stack in Pasargardae, while a shipment of grenadiers will be diverted to Susa. Next turn the caravel will get a look into Susa, so I can boat some siege over too if I need it (we have a galleon on that body of water now).

AD1400
Liz moved her stack right between Hastings and our city. It won't fare well against our grenadiers.
I get a peek into London - it has 5 redcoats and 5 cats, as well as a few wandering knights who will hopefully run off to make a Monty Python film.

..

AD1420
Our stack continues to advance on Hastings.
It's time to bite the bullet, put up with the ensuing lead poisoning, and DoW Cyrus. We've got the units to advance on both cities at once, so this war should be short, and over in time for our coming Golden Age.

AD1430
Our units move next to Persepolis, Hastings, and Susa. I'm not sure how many we'll capture next turn - Hastings is a sure thing though.

AD1440
Liz learns Physics. Along with the free GS, she gets a Great Artist. She didn't fire a Golden Age though.
Battle results coming soon.
We capture Susa.
I pass on Persepolis, to walk across the river and bring more units.
Hastings is bombarded down to 50%. It's a necessary evil.
The spy moves to London to try to sabotage the walls (Liz can't rebuild them because she has Rifling).

AD1450
We capture Persepolis, the Hanging Gardens, Mausoleum of Mausollos, and Spiral Minaret. Now our three Hindu buildings give us a bit of gold

We capture Hastings too, destroying a bucketload of units. I'm going to save and upload now.

LowtherCastle · May 18, 2012

Not sure what your plan is, but if it's feasible in tersm of coutner-attack, Hastings-London-Nottingham looks like the best path. New units will have a quick path to Canterbury and our units will loop around.

London and Nottingham are Lizzie's only 5000 :culture:

cities.

LowtherCastle · May 18, 2012

Lizzie should have won a cultural victory already...

SGOTM 15 - One Short Straw

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