OK, thanks. 
SGOTM 15 - Xteam
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Not to worry, Undecided. Good intentions and may turn out for the better.
Thinking BW before Wheel. Don't see anything that desperately needs to be connected.
Hawk's plan of two warriors before third settler still seems reasonable.
Thinking BW before Wheel. Don't see anything that desperately needs to be connected.
Hawk's plan of two warriors before third settler still seems reasonable.
Mad Professor
Deity
Still catching up on reading.
It's good to have masonry, but I think definitely time BW now. Our border there is going to create problems soon as expansions occur, and he already hates us and is a lot more powerful than us. I hope there's copper. If not, we better kill as many cats as possible and make a lot of bowstrings...
It's good to have masonry, but I think definitely time BW now. Our border there is going to create problems soon as expansions occur, and he already hates us and is a lot more powerful than us. I hope there's copper. If not, we better kill as many cats as possible and make a lot of bowstrings...
Nice first set Undecided.
Hope you get caught up reading MP.
Roster:
Mad Professor - UP
The-Hawk - On Deck
zamint3
Cactus Pete
Htadus
leif
Undecided - just played
Hope you get caught up reading MP.
Roster:
Mad Professor - UP
The-Hawk - On Deck
zamint3
Cactus Pete
Htadus
leif
Undecided - just played
Mad Professor
Deity
Nice first set Undecided.
Hope you get caught up reading MP.
Roster:
Mad Professor - UP
The-Hawk - On Deck
zamint3
Cactus Pete
Htadus
leif
Undecided - just played
I see this. I'm on it. It's going to take a couple of days to get cooking though. Right now I'm reading and thinking more than I'm writing, so keep talking.
Guess it is time to talk about City Sites? 
We could found Gem City as either a Commerce City (site1 in red) or a combination Production/Commerce City (site 2 in yellow). Think we also have the opportunity for a GP Farm to the south of the Capital, if it doesn't come too late?
The northern Gold City location?
We could found Gem City as either a Commerce City (site1 in red) or a combination Production/Commerce City (site 2 in yellow). Think we also have the opportunity for a GP Farm to the south of the Capital, if it doesn't come too late?
The northern Gold City location?
Attachments
The-Hawk
Old Original Geezer
I'm back in the saddle for a couple of days, looking forward to helping test next steps.
Nice job Undecided, very good progress. No worries at all about your moving forward with masonry. Communication can be difficult in SG since it is not real time.
Leif, re: city sites:
Nice job Undecided
, very good progress. No worries at all about your moving forward with masonry. Communication can be difficult in SG since it is not real time.Leif, re: city sites:
- Deciding between site 1 and 2 will be difficult. Site 1 is hammer poor, site 2 is health poor. My guess is we settle site 2 because we already have several health resources.
- Your GP farm site is another tough call. We will definitely settle it, but the question will be whether to prioritize calendar. Problem is we don't see any other calendar resources. We could build it where you have it and then build cottages on the river to make it a comm city while waiting for calendar. Or we could build it 1S to leave the hill and make this a prod city. I lean towards 1S because I suspect we will be warring early.
- I like site 4, although a resource under the fogged tile to the W would be reason to settle 1W on the hill.
Testsave is up to date. I couldn't change Rooseman to Hammuragawa, in theory i know how to do it, but in practice Hammy was nowhere to be seen. This means that he isn't our worst enemy for the moment. This is the only difference between the test and the real one as far as i know. I think Rooseman is sufficient for now, but i try to find a solution for the near future.
Regarding city sites:
- I would settle Pig/Gems at place 1 and make a commerce-site out of it. With the one hill we have 6 prod per turn at size 3 and two forests to chop which would be sufficient enough to get a library quickly and cottage or farm the place to fuel research.
The greenhills to the east could be picked up by a city NE of the stone, which after a border pop could work the hills, a cow, and has min. 4 forests to chop.
- I agree with Deer/Gold, if a resource pops up near the peak we move on the hill.
- Banana/Crab is difficult. I would go 1S regardless of what we're planning because we will have fishing before calender so i'd like to get the crab in the first ring.
On the GP-farm topic: We could always run our first couple GPs in the capital and later switch to this site after building NE. I like Hawk's suggestion of a prod site, we might need a city later which can build naval units fast. We could find another place, say Tokyo
, to get out GPs in the later stages of the game.
Regarding city sites:
- I would settle Pig/Gems at place 1 and make a commerce-site out of it. With the one hill we have 6 prod per turn at size 3 and two forests to chop which would be sufficient enough to get a library quickly and cottage or farm the place to fuel research.
The greenhills to the east could be picked up by a city NE of the stone, which after a border pop could work the hills, a cow, and has min. 4 forests to chop.
- I agree with Deer/Gold, if a resource pops up near the peak we move on the hill.
- Banana/Crab is difficult. I would go 1S regardless of what we're planning because we will have fishing before calender so i'd like to get the crab in the first ring.
On the GP-farm topic: We could always run our first couple GPs in the capital and later switch to this site after building NE. I like Hawk's suggestion of a prod site, we might need a city later which can build naval units fast. We could find another place, say Tokyo
, to get out GPs in the later stages of the game.Don't think we should settle another city until BW is in, and we know abour copper.
Well, we know we want the gem city. Thinking BW should come in about 10 or 11 turns with the Gold Hill mined.
With BW, we can whip another Settler and our Capital will be size 5, couldn't we get the gem city built and, if need be, whip another settler to grab the copper?
If copper is near gems, that would influence location of gem city. If copper shows up elsewhere, then we need to discuss, because it's questionable whether we want to whip the capital and lose the use of those improved tiles.
OK, makes sense. Then one of the issues in testing is balancing the arrival of BW and the next Settler.
Htadus
A and L's dad
Sorry I was detached over the weekend. I had a last minute inclining to submit a game for one of the HOF challenges and was involved with it.
About the settling places.
Between 1 and 2, I would choose neither and settle below 2/east of 1 and lose coast and make it a strong hammer city. Granted it is blasphamy to settle far from food that is only accessible after culture expantion and will have a weak coast tile. But just another way of looking at it.
Should we not settle city 4 on the hill tile you wrote the #4 leif? We could use the defence abainst the bowman/or other units.
About the settling places.
Between 1 and 2, I would choose neither and settle below 2/east of 1 and lose coast and make it a strong hammer city. Granted it is blasphamy to settle far from food that is only accessible after culture expantion and will have a weak coast tile. But just another way of looking at it.
Should we not settle city 4 on the hill tile you wrote the #4 leif? We could use the defence abainst the bowman/or other units.
The-Hawk
Old Original Geezer
After some brief testing, I am thinking wheel before BW and capital builds another worker before settler. If we go BW and settler first, the worker near the capital becomes overworked (stone and the pigs both need to be improved) and the worker near city 2 becomes idle after mining. He could move to help with the stone, but it seems a shame to waste those moves. And earlier roading will increase our research. Clearly this delays city 3 several turns (maybe 5?), but we get tiles improved and roads in place much sooner. The capital is going to rock with both quarries in place.
In either scenario, we complete BW before the settler is finished. Given we most likely will not whip in the capital, in hindsight I think masonry first was the right play.
I'm going to continue to fool around with wheel first. If someone wants to work the BW first scenario we can compare to see how many turns I lose in settling city 3.
In either scenario, we complete BW before the settler is finished. Given we most likely will not whip in the capital, in hindsight I think masonry first was the right play.
I'm going to continue to fool around with wheel first. If someone wants to work the BW first scenario we can compare to see how many turns I lose in settling city 3.
The-Hawk
Old Original Geezer
Wheel first scenario is attached. All research was binary.
We will settle on turn 58 or 59 (depending on site we choose).
PH is only a few turns away, so we could chop oracle for MC in city 2. Capital can build mids if we want (1 turn from connecting stone). However, we probably want to begin another settler for the northern gold site.
By the way, in this test, barbs settled near the northern gold. This would be unfortunate.
Save:
View attachment hawk test 44-57.CivBeyondSwordSave
We will settle on turn 58 or 59 (depending on site we choose).
PH is only a few turns away, so we could chop oracle for MC in city 2. Capital can build mids if we want (1 turn from connecting stone). However, we probably want to begin another settler for the northern gold site.
By the way, in this test, barbs settled near the northern gold. This would be unfortunate.
Save:
View attachment hawk test 44-57.CivBeyondSwordSave
If can't get settler out with BW, Wheel would indeed seem better as next tech. Appreciate the testing.
I only had a bit of time over the weekend and was trying to get a feel for oracle times playing on from our current setup. I went BW before wheel and in my game i managed to get oracle and our forge up and running in 5-6 turns after the discovery of priesthood thanks to pre-chopping forests (oracle was started at T64 i think with BW-TW-Pottery-Priesthood-Writing). Problem is that this scenario is only working if there is no copper or somewhere inside our cultural borders.
I'll try to play this variation again and provide a save as soon as i have a bit of freetime for comparisons' sake.
I'll try to play this variation again and provide a save as soon as i have a bit of freetime for comparisons' sake.
Mad Professor
Deity
Nearly up to speed. I'd like to play around with BW/Settler vs wheel->BW with worker->settler a bit. I can post a plan in about 26-28 hours I think. Thanks for the testing Hawk.
Kind of thinking that, unless this map winds around on itself, we're going to need a navy to transport troops. Seems like a coastal city would provide us an opportunity to have a shipyard close to that coast to the west?
You could be right about this one. Too bad it isn't a plains hill...
No problem MP, going to try to play some myself soon, I hope.
Would like to find that copper, if there is any, and would be nice to be able to pre-chop forests? But increased commerce and research is also important.
Would like to see 'mids.
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