SGOTM 15 - Xteam

[leif erikson]

Think we'll need to test this out. Having to research Poly first is going to slow things down, especially since we need Agriculture second. We may need to settle on the Marble and Stone to have enough time to build the wonders we want, once we know what they will be?

Stonehenge?
Oracle - Yes
Temple of Artemis is nice to have for the extra trade routes.
Damned wonderlust....

Others?

If not Stonehenge, how do we get Theology for AP strategy?

 

[Undecided]

If we can grow to 2 and build the worker by Aggriculture date, lets build a warrior for exploration.

I thought about building a warrior first because of polytheism but then i realised that a worker could still improve hills so that wouldn't be necessary imo.

 

[zamint3]

If we can grow to 2 and build the worker by Aggriculture date, lets build a warrior for exploration.

I tested this.

If we settle on the marble (or stone) we can have 2 warriors (2nd one to pop exactly when we reach pop 2) and a worker 2 turns before Agri.

Being fast he can do two turns of mining and go farming on the turn we learn Agri, I'm not sure we'll be working any mines for some time.

 

[Htadus]

Think we'll need to test this out. AgreeHaving to research Poly first is going to slow things down, especially since we need Agriculture second. We may need to settle on the Marble and Stone to have enough time to build the wonders we want, once we know what they will be?Oh my, I thought I had a wonder problem

Stonehenge?Yes, if we go Culture as a back up, may be for border pops and no on all other cases.
Oracle - YesAgree
Temple of Artemis is nice to have for the extra trade routes.No for me, except for fail gold.
Damned wonderlust....

Others?

If not Stonehenge, how do we get Theology for AP strategy?

Oracle for MC asap.

I thought about building a warrior first because of polytheism but then i realised that a worker could still improve hills so that wouldn't be necessary imo.

I see your point, but as Z3 point out below, we have time for working mines.

I tested this.Thanks

If we settle on the marble (or stone) we can have 2 warriors (2nd one to pop exactly when we reach pop 2) and a worker 2 turns before Agri. I like this idea.

Being fast he can do two turns of mining and go farming on the turn we learn Agri, I'm not sure we'll be working any mines for some time.

Well with two pop and wet corn and wet mine(commerce), we should be building our first settler right after the worker. 5 turns after Agg the farm is up, and after another 2 the mine is up. I think we need the wheel after Agriculture.

So tech order should be Poly, Agg and wheel. Am i way out there flapping?

 

[leif erikson]

I'm getting into my usual state, confused...

Are we talking about an AP strategy here? The reason I ask is that we do not want Stonehenge and we are talking about MC from Oracle. How do we plan to get Theology in order to build AP? I have heard that we will use a Great Prophet to bulb but I seem to be missing how that happens?

In tech order, unless we find some commerce resources, Pottery and cottages will be needed. Oh ya, we need Pottery in order to Oracle MC.

Is Oracle MC meaning Domination for a goal?

 

[Mad Professor]

Leif, I think we're still a little confused about how we are going to win - at least I am. While there are factors which make a firm decision at this stage a bit uncertain I'm nervous that we will go too far into the game before deciding. I think that has cost us in the past.

Regarding settling sites, I'm a bit nervous about anything along the borders of what we can currently see until we can see more. While marble and stone settling sites have a lot to recommend them for example, there's so much about those sites that we don't yet know. I would like to see the player taking the first turnset move the warrior so at least we have a little more information. The catch I guess is to decide which way to move him?

 

[leif erikson]

Leif, I think we're still a little confused about how we are going to win - at least I am. While there are factors which make a firm decision at this stage a bit uncertain I'm nervous that we will go too far into the game before deciding. I think that has cost us in the past.

Agreed. However, when we discuss a start, in order to evaluate what is being said it would be nice to understand what is behind the comment. I am not sure if some of these ideas are for a general, fast, start or with a particular strategy in mind?

Hard to test what to do if you do not understand the objective?

Regarding settling sites, I'm a bit nervous about anything along the borders of what we can currently see until we can see more. While marble and stone settling sites have a lot to recommend them for example, there's so much about those sites that we don't yet know. I would like to see the player taking the first turnset move the warrior so at least we have a little more information. The catch I guess is to decide which way to move him?

CP asked to hold until he could get a good look at the save. Thinking he'll be in the loop tomorrow, so I can wait.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Looked at save and read thread . . .

Still prefer moving the warrior 1NE. (That will not reveal the tiles east of black and green dots, but settling on either the orange dot or the marble would include the fogged tiles to their east anyway.) If no resources are revealed, then purple dot is probably not optimal (since less chance of adding unrevealed resources) and marble and orange dots are the best choices. Do not like settling on any of the other dots. They all lose something (either forests to chop or a resource) in favor of taking a risk of finding resources in the fog.

 

[Htadus]

I'm getting into my usual state, confused...
Sorry to have confuse you.
Are we talking about an AP strategy here? Yes The reason I ask is that we do not want Stonehenge and we are talking about MC from Oracle. How do we plan to get Theology in order to build AP? I have heard that we will use a Great Prophet to bulb but I seem to be missing how that happens? It is a old gambit used to build the Myds on a high levels.
It need 2 cities minimum and works best with a Philo leader. It goes like this.

• One city build the Oracle.
• the other city need to have at least 2 pop and several prechopped forests.
• The turn the Oracle is done. The other city start a Forge and complete it with several chops. This need to be done in a very short time. I can calc it later.
• Anyways, the moment the forge is done, hire an engineer. This city is making GPP 1.5 times more than the Oracle city and can pop out a GE for AP for us and mids in the original gambit.
• The city that build the Oracle will also build a temple for our gambit.
• Hire a Priest to speed up the second GP from the Oracle city to bulb Theo.

In tech order, unless we find some commerce resources, Pottery and cottages will be needed. Oh ya, we need Pottery in order to Oracle MC.

Is Oracle MC meaning Domination for a goal?

No but should not harm the Domination.......I hope.

BTW if we find that we are going to need caravals, then the GE can bulb Machinary and build the AP the old fasion way.....with more chops.

 

[Mad Professor]

OK - that's clearer. Something to chew on

 

[Undecided]

We should stop the victory condition discussion for a moment. I think everybody realised that peaceful victories could be viable with the given game settings. However without map or AI knowledge we're completely in the dark. My suggestion would be to wait what the first turns/turnset brings and then building other grand strategy further.

For now the warrior move and settling is the most important decision:

I got the feeling that everybody would like to free up the FP, right?

In general i prefer settling south over north, not on one of our forests and of course keeping wet corn in th BFC

I'm also more curious about the area around the stone than the river to the west.

My suggestion therefore is:
1. Warrior NE hopefully finding something that makes the area around stone a good second city site, after that moving him counter-clockwise westwards and
2. Settler 1S or on the marble. (most likely)

Both will be a good flexible short-term cap with enough food to feed the green hills or cottages or a couple specialists. Even when the south turns out to be barren land.
I know that i'm getting a bit ahead of myself but i feel that it's one of the stronger if not the strongest option for the start and outweighs the disadvantages that come with it.

 

[leif erikson]

Htadus.

From what I am reading, propose the opening moves be Warrior NE and Settler to Marble Hill. We can take a screenie and post and then discuss? If resources do not show from the Marble Hill, we can still back off to the gold dot to settle next turn.

Or do we just want to move the Warrior NE, stop and take stock?

 

[Undecided]

Move warrior, stop and discuss.

Then move settler, stop and discuss.

Settle, stop and discuss.

Think this will be the best course of action.

 

[zamint3]

From the maintenance thread:

A number of teams have PM'd me about a little confusion regarding the start save, and indeed I made a typo in the game description.

The description should say: 8 opponents, not 8 AI. Sorry.

What's the big difference?

Edit: And the Demographics screen says we're ranked #10, does Barbs count?

I also note that Buddhism has been founded and the Mahabodhi built. I wonder how many AI already got Buddhism?

 

[The-Hawk]

Edit: And the Demographics screen says we're ranked #10, does Barbs count?


I also note that Buddhism has been founded and the Mahabodhi built. I wonder how many AI already got Buddhism?

Guess we are starting to get clues as to how neil balanced the AP .

Maybe there is a team of 2 AIs?

 

[Htadus]

Move warrior, stop and discuss.

Then move settler, stop and discuss.

Settle, stop and discuss.

Think this will be the best course of action.

I am good with this.

From the maintenance thread:

What's the big difference? I think Hawk nailed it,

Edit: And the Demographics screen says we're ranked #10, does Barbs count?I ve never seen Barb as an AI

I also note that Buddhism has been founded and the Mahabodhi built. I wonder how many AI already got Buddhism?

That neilmeister. Untrustable map makers. This force all other AI who want a religion to go after Poly. Grrrrr. We do not have many turns to settle if other AI will have Myst.

Maybe there is a team of 2 AIs?

Biggest question about this setting is how the tech rate get affected. Do they get a discount or get slowed since there are other AI without the partnership? Or do the single AI teams get really disadvantaged due to higher tech cost?

 

[leif erikson]

@Htadus, you taking this or am I?

If it is me, I'll move the Warrior NE, save and post.

 

[Htadus]

Go for it leif. This set need more help with testing and i will be happy to help with that along with the rest of the team.

BTW, lets do a long set with many stops but without any official uploads to mess with save readers. :O

 

[leif erikson]

OK, I've got it. Have to go home to upload the save, within the hour.

 

[leif erikson]

Done and 1E doesn't look too bad.
Save attached, it is the actual game save, no moves please.



Have to take my daughter back to college this afternoon as her vacation ends today, so will be back this evening. Can't wait to read the discussion.