SGOTM 16 - Fifth Element

[Folket]

got 30 gold from Brennus,
traded for Ramesses and revolted.
T110
Notice that Lyon has 4 overflow hammers. removes the engineer for one turn
T111
sold fish to Brennus for 2 gpt.
T112
Brennus spreads hinduism to our last two cities.

I made several misstakes. Reihms worked the wrong square for 2 turns and I continued to spy against Brennus for 2 turns. Also my calculations I did on Orleans were just very wrong. Still by whiping next turn we will still get 3 swordmen in 4 turns.

 

[Folket]

Session log

Turn 104, 275 BC: You have discovered Iron Working!
Turn 104, 275 BC: Marseilles has been founded.
Turn 104, 275 BC: St. Paul (Great Prophet) has been born in Thebes (Ramesses II)!

Turn 105, 250 BC: Christianity has been founded in a distant land!

Turn 106, 225 BC: You have discovered Currency!
Turn 106, 225 BC: You have constructed a Forge in Rheims. Work has now begun on a Library.

Turn 108, 175 BC: You have discovered Masonry!
Turn 108, 175 BC: The borders of Marseilles have expanded!

Turn 109, 150 BC: You have discovered Monotheism!
Turn 109, 150 BC: You have discovered Monarchy!
Turn 109, 150 BC: The revolution has begun!!!
Turn 109, 150 BC: Louis XIV adopts Hereditary Rule!
Turn 109, 150 BC: Louis XIV adopts Organized Religion!
Turn 109, 150 BC: The anarchy is over! Your government is re-established.

Turn 111, 100 BC: Hinduism has spread in Tours.
Turn 111, 100 BC: Hinduism has spread in Marseilles.

Turn 112, 75 BC: You have constructed a Market in Paris. Work has now begun on a Wealth.
Turn 112, 75 BC: You have constructed a Granary in Tours. Work has now begun on a Forge.

Turn 113, 50 BC: Lyons has grown to size 5.
Turn 113, 50 BC: Rheims has grown to size 3.
Turn 113, 50 BC: Brennus will trade Iron
Turn 113, 50 BC: Paris will grow to size 8 on the next turn.
Turn 113, 50 BC: You have trained a Worker in Orleans. Work has now begun on a Swordsman.

Turn 114, 25 BC: Paris has grown to size 8.
Turn 114, 25 BC: Orleans can hurry Swordsman for 2⇴ with 18ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 19 turns.
Turn 114, 25 BC: Lyons will grow to size 6 on the next turn.
Turn 114, 25 BC: Rheims will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
Turn 114, 25 BC: You have trained a Swordsman in Orleans. Work has now begun on a Swordsman.
Turn 114, 25 BC: Judaism has spread in Lyons.
Turn 114, 25 BC: Brennus has founded Verlamion in a distant land.

Turn 115, 1 AD: Lyons has grown to size 6.
Turn 115, 1 AD: Rheims has grown to size 4.
Turn 115, 1 AD: The borders of Rheims are about to expand.

 

[Shaandore]

got 30 gold from Brennus,
traded for Ramesses and revolted.
T110
Notice that Lyon has 4 overflow hammers. removes the engineer for one turn
T111
sold fish to Brennus for 2 gpt.
T112
Brennus spreads hinduism to our last two cities.

I made several misstakes. Reihms worked the wrong square for 2 turns and I continued to spy against Brennus for 2 turns. Also my calculations I did on Orleans were just very wrong. Still by whiping next turn we will still get 3 swordmen in 4 turns.

Well played! Those are not problems at all. I hope that you will keep playing for another 10 turns at least.

And note that Rammy got another prophet. Did he bulb Theology? If not, then we have a good chance at getting one more shrine

I will look at the save tomorrow night.

 

[Folket]

I think he did bulb Theology.

 

[Folket]

I should play for an other 10 turns? I asked two times how many turns I should play but I did not get an answer. So 20 turn-ish is standard?

 

[BLubmuz]

I should play for an other 10 turns? I asked two times how many turns I should play but I did not get an answer. So 20 turn-ish is standard?

Yes, we need to use this lenght because this will be a long game. The reason why we fraction the sets is to avoid too long and often wrong PPP - due to the excessive lenght - and to try to speed the pace.

 

[Folket]

k, I will download the save again and post a new PPP tonight.

 

[Folket]

As I'm new to this I think I need some guidance in how I should structure this.

As I do it now. I post a PPP and then I wait until we have a concensus. Should I instead post a PPP let everyone comment and compile the "concensus" myself and play.

So the question is how much discussion do I want to have before I start playing?

 

[Shaandore]

I'm fine with the current method.
Post a PPP, we write observations/suggestions, you correct the PPP based on team consensus (which should be compiled by you), and after a couple green lights play.

Maybe a turn by turn PPP (see this one) would be nice. It requires more time to write, and it is hard to be precise for more than 5 turns, but it has huge benefits: you won't forget anything if you follow this when playing, and calculations are easier, the PPP is better structured. But as you see, I didn't have the time to write turn-by turn PPPs either, just this one time.

 

[Folket]

It is easier to write PPP for one city at a time. Perhaps I will start with doing that and then try a transformation to a turnbased PPP.

 

[ZPV]

@Shaandore:
I prefer the city-by-city type of PPP. It's much easier to see what the player's thought processes are, and also the worker and city micromanagement concerns.

@Folket:
Well played!
We don't need everyone to take on 20 turns at a time any more - that was just a stopgap measure to get to the t100 deadline.
Just play as many as you are comfortable with.
Comments on the save coming in the next post.

 

[ZPV]

Thoughts for the next turns:
Paris - work the other grassland cottage - probably instead of a plains village. Remember also to save some forests for Oxford.
Spies: go look at the barb cities. They're not doing us any good hanging around in Paris and Orleans. The fogbusting warrior can come and act as Military Police in Paris so it can grow another citizen.
Orleans: it's not the end of the world. If you whip the swordsman next turn, the following one will be produced in 1 turn. If you then work the maximum food that lets you accomplish that, we'll be able to whip a worker or settler a few turns after that.
Lyons: Time to work the hammer tiles.
Rheims: After the library is done, work the food, gems, and two scientists (you can arrange to grow+finish the library in 2 turns). We can whip a lighthouse when there are spare population.

 

[Folket]

What is Lyon going to do with the hammers. It is set up to receive 3 chops in four turns. Which will finish the hanging gardens.

Can barbarians catch our spies or can I as well park him in the city?

How can we trust that 3 swordmen will be enough to take the barbarian city?

Is there a way to tell when the AI will tech Calendar?

 

[ZPV]

What is Lyon going to do with the hammers. It is set up to receive 3 chops in four turns. Which will finish the hanging gardens.

Can barbarians catch our spies or can I as well park him in the city?

How can we trust that 3 swordmen will be enough to take the barbarian city?

Is there a way to tell when the AI will tech Calendar?

Good point @Lyons. The forests will provide 168 hammers, of the 210 left. The other 42 can be found on the last one or two turns.

Barbs can catch spies, so ours should stick to hills outside their territory where we'll be able to look in from safety.

A promoted swordsman has good odds against a barbarian archer. We don't need to kill all three archers on the same turn - any victorious swordsman will be able to promote again (to CR2) and win another battle.
The presence of Brennus's archer by the wine city complicates things a little - leaving one redlined barbarian defender to kill the next turn is not a good solution. If the one by the sugar doesn't have a Celtic archer covering it, we should take that first.

If you don't feel confident about it, then you could micromanage Orleans to produce 3 more swordsmen instead of two, in 5 turns. (hammer production 27->13->2->(whip for 2 pop)->overflow)

 

[Folket]

I thought the forest would give us 180 hammers. Care to explain?

Perhaps I can upgrade a warrior to a swordman as well? That would allow me to get 4 swordmen without delaying.

 

[ZPV]

I thought the forest would give us 180 hammers. Care to explain?

Perhaps I can upgrade a warrior to a swordman as well? That would allow me to get 4 swordmen without delaying.

(30+30+24)*2 24 hammers for the one to the southwest, since it's outside the city radius.

That's an expensive upgrade, compared to our tech rate. Probably not worth it.

 

[Folket]

I see. I guess I learn something new every day.

 

[BLubmuz]

A promoted swordsman has good odds against a barbarian archer. We don't need to kill all three archers on the same turn - any victorious swordsman will be able to promote again (to CR2) and win another battle.
The presence of Brennus's archer by the wine city complicates things a little - leaving one redlined barbarian defender to kill the next turn is not a good solution. If the one by the sugar doesn't have a Celtic archer covering it, we should take that first.

If you don't feel confident about it, then you could micromanage Orleans to produce 3 more swordsmen instead of two, in 5 turns. (hammer production 27->13->2->(whip for 2 pop)->overflow)

Yeah, that archer makes us need a couple backup units. In any case we need at least one more to keep the city while we send the ministack to the sugar city.

I suggest to use 5 swords or 3 swords and 2 axes, then keep and axe in the city and once healed send the 4 units to sugar. Roads can be useful. I prefer take the city in 1 turn with more units - which we need sooner or later - than pay maintenance for units outside pur territory or risk to lose the city to Brennus.

Whay really like would be 4 swords and 2 axes.

 

[Folket]

PPP
Marseilles
Switch to work deer in one turn.
whip in two turns, start on forge.
Whip forge? Courthouse next?

Paris,
Continue on Wealth.

Lyon,
grow in two turns. Then start work on a mine,
Hanging gardens finished in four turns.
Then build galley.

Tours,
Grow in one turn.
Then grow again in three turns.
Grows again in six turns.
Slow building forge to size 6 then whip.
After forge start library.

Orleans,
Swordman 2 turn, next swordman put in 2 hammers then whip 2 pop. third swordman 1 turn.

Rheims,
in 1 turn change from clam to mine.
in 2 turns, grow and finish library, hire 2 scientists. start on lighthouse.
in 6 turns, grows, work on mine 1 turn and then whip.
?

warrior 1, move to Paris to generate happiness
spy 3 and 2, go to hill next to Apache, spy 3 can continue to other barbarian city.


Bautrupp 1
Chop forest, I could see irrigating this square to get irrigation down to Rheims. But it is not needed by Paris yet.
Suggestions on doing next?

Worker 2, Worker 4,
build more cottages. ENE, and NNE from Paris.
Then worker 2 could finish mine?
And worker 4, connect pig then cottage NW of Paris?
Cottage N of Tours?

Worker 6,
Go W and cut down forest.
then?

Worker 7,
Go and chop a forest into Lyon.
Help improve Marseilles,

worker 3,
Build road to incense then continue road towards Apache.

Worker 1, Finish Camp 3 turns.
Runs to deer and builds a camp, while the other move to forest hill to chop and mine.

Worker 5,
chop forest into Lyon, build pasture

Krieger 1
got to topmost tile to spawn bust.

warrior 2
in 1 turn go to Marseilles to create happiness.

 

[Folket]

Perhaps i will keep warrior 1 at Apache to have as garrison.