SGOTM 16 - Fifth Element

[unclethrill]

Good plan.

One minor modification, if everyone agrees: Paris should not get whipped, unless it has enough citizens to work all flat tiles in the BFC (and all of them are cottaged or farmed), and it has at least one excess citizen. That city fuels our economy alone, losing cottage working citizens there would hurt more than anything.

We won't have too much info on his cities with just two spies, so let's hope they don't get caught too soon.

I agree that it is not optimal to whip Paris but ... the two units we get there are important to having overwhelming odds coming down the east coast. I don't want to sacrifice game strategy for a couple units but in the build up to this war with no real units to speak of, we really need every one we can get as fast as possible.

As far as spies go, all I intend from them is to see how many units brennus has currently and to see when he gets feudalism.

 

[unclethrill]

Yes, good plan.
I don't understand if the numbers of the whips is population for 1 whip or times you whip for 1 pop. I agree with Shaan for Paris. It can produce archers instead of muskets working mines instead of cottages for some turn. Archers are needed for MP, muskets for fight.

It is the number of musketeers that are whipped. Sometimes 1 pop sometimes 3 population with overflow. Just depends.

 

[Folket]

I would prefer a whip to working a mine instead of cottage. Perhaps you can tell us how many whips and pops as well.

 

[BLubmuz]

I would prefer a whip to working a mine instead of cottage. Perhaps you can tell us how many whips and pops as well.

A whip needs to regrow and it takes some turn. Paris is not high food. Since:
a) 3 archers roughly equals 1 musket in terms of hammers
b) we need troops for MP and muskets are wasted on that duty
i think my proposal makes sense. If Paris works 1-2 mines instead of cottages for 4-5 turns, the result will be the same as if it has to regrow. Archers will be unpromoted, but we need them just to not let empty cities.

Once we have time, the mine N of Paris and one SE - IIRC - can be converted to windmills.

 

[ZPV]

I agree that it is not optimal to whip Paris but ... the two units we get there are important to having overwhelming odds coming down the east coast. I don't want to sacrifice game strategy for a couple units but in the build up to this war with no real units to speak of, we really need every one we can get as fast as possible.

As far as spies go, all I intend from them is to see how many units brennus has currently and to see when he gets feudalism.

I don't think the east coast is important enough to whip Paris. Bibracte is the important bit. Other cities can still produce enough to mop up Verlamion later.
edit: With a Catapult in Orleans, and an axeman in Rheims, we certainly don't need 4 muskets for that city. Nor do we need such overwhelming odds, really.

We still have a lot of tech to get through, to get to Mining Inc.
I think the only thing worth whipping there will be a Levee.
Working mines instead of cottages is just as bad. If Paris wants to build MP on its plains cottages, that's fine. Every coin in Paris becomes 4.8 beakers of tech.

Apart from that, the plan looks good!

 

[Shaandore]

I totally agree with ZPV, whipping and mine working in Paris would hurt our economy the same way, and you could put some muskets from the ministacks into the main stack to make up for those missing 2.
Slowbuilding a couple archers in Paris is okay, as long as you are working all the cottages. But since you won't work mines, it will be very slow (still better than nothing though).

 

[Folket]

I'm joining ZPV and Shaandore.

We don't need 4 Musketeers 3S of Rheim. Thius can be taken care of by reinforcements.

 

[unclethrill]

Okay so I will drop out the whips in Paris. I will plan to play in 6 to 8 hours unless someone else tells me to stop.

BTW Blubmuz, I'll build some MP in paris.


Edit: Just for FYI, the 4 units S of Rheims are there for more than just taking Ver. That site as a rally point was chosen because the last two units from that side could reach there in time for the DoW and all the troops that take that city will move south and take the city E of Bib on or close to the same turn as Bib falls. The 4 units plus one of the units from the main stack will roll that city and Ver will backfill an MP from Rheims. I can go with less there it just changes the War strategy slightly.

 

[BLubmuz]

Many things will be adjusted in the field, but i think that the idea to move to the city SE of Bibracte has many merits. There's nothing as a 2 side attack which makes the AI do stupid things. Also, the danger to fight LB is there for any city. The city SE of Bibracte is one if the best Brennus has.

 

[unclethrill]

I'm pretty sure I can still bring the pain to Brennus.

 

[unclethrill]

Gonna play in the next couple hours

 

[unclethrill]

Playing now

 

[unclethrill]

Played to half way through T167. I am ready to DoW on Brennus on this turn. Here is a summary of what has been done and the current save. I'll generate a PPP for my next part of the TS (played till we take Bib) tomorrow at work.


T162 Began moves to front lines
Trade with Brennus Aesthetics for CoL +10 Gold.
Whips - Orleans, Uzbek, Avignon
T163 Whips - Lyons, Marseilles, Apache
T164 Machinery in, Start Compass
Whips - Uzbek
T165 Compass in, Start Optics
Spy arrives in Tolosa
Whips - Avignon, Orleans, Marseilles, Apache
T166 Hindu missionary arrives in Chartes
Whips - Uzbek, Lyons, Rheims
T167 Optics in, PP started as a placeholder (I like Engineering for +1 road movement but that is for a later discussion)
Start Caravel in Rheims
Vote for Ramesess in the AP
Whip - Tours, Marseilles, Orleans, Apache (a caravel w/ overflow into a Musketeer)

Autolog:

Spoiler :

Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 162/500 (1020 AD) [08-Dec-2012 03:47:35]
100% Research: 438 per turn
0% Espionage: 12 per turn
0% Gold: -161 per turn, 1545 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Orleans
The whip was applied in Uzbek
The whip was applied in Avignon
Orleans grows to size 7
Orleans finishes: Musketeer
Rheims grows to size 11
Uzbek grows to size 6
Uzbek finishes: Barracks
Avignon finishes: Library
Rouen grows to size 2

Other Player Actions:
Islam founded in a distant land
Attitude Change: Brennus (Celtia) towards Louis XIV (France), from 'Pleased' to 'Friendly'
Civics Change: Brennus(Celtia) from 'Despotism' to 'Hereditary Rule'

Turn 163/500 (1030 AD) [08-Dec-2012 03:47:36]
Orleans begins: Musketeer (7 turns)
A Cottage was built near Marseilles
A Fishing Boats was built near Avignon
Lyons begins: Musketeer (4 turns)
100% Research: 432 per turn
0% Espionage: 12 per turn
0% Gold: -160 per turn, 1394 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Lyons
The whip was applied in Marseilles
The whip was applied in Apache
Tech research finished: Machinery
Orleans grows to size 8
Orleans finishes: Musketeer
Lyons grows to size 10
Lyons finishes: Musketeer
Rheims finishes: Archer
Tours grows to size 10
Marseilles finishes: Musketeer
Apache grows to size 7
Apache finishes: Musketeer
Uzbek's borders expand

Other Player Actions:
Judaism has spread: Marseilles

Turn 164/500 (1040 AD) [08-Dec-2012 03:53:20]
Orleans begins: Musketeer (6 turns)
Marseilles begins: Musketeer (5 turns)
Apache begins: Musketeer (7 turns)
A Mine was built near Rouen
A Farm was built near Paris
A Cottage was built near Apache
A Cottage was built near Rouen
A Mine was built near Avignon
100% Research: 443 per turn
0% Espionage: 12 per turn
0% Gold: -168 per turn, 1234 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Uzbek
Tech research finished: Compass
Paris finishes: Archer
A Village was built near Paris
A Town was built near Paris
Uzbek grows to size 5
Uzbek finishes: Musketeer
Chartres grows to size 7
Avignon grows to size 4

Turn 165/500 (1050 AD) [08-Dec-2012 04:01:34]
Uzbek begins: Musketeer (16 turns)
Avignon begins: Musketeer (80 turns)
Paris begins: Archer (3 turns)
Orleans begins: Musketeer (8 turns)
Lyons begins: Musketeer (4 turns)
100% Research: 451 per turn
0% Espionage: 12 per turn
0% Gold: -165 per turn, 1066 in the bank

After End Turn:
Whip anger has decreased in Paris
The whip was applied in Orleans
The whip was applied in Lyons
Whip anger has decreased in Rheims
Whip anger has decreased in Tours
The whip was applied in Marseilles
The whip was applied in Apache
Whip anger has decreased in Uzbek
Whip anger has decreased in Chartres
The whip was applied in Avignon
Orleans finishes: Musketeer
Lyons finishes: Musketeer
Rheims grows to size 12
Rheims finishes: Archer
Marseilles finishes: Musketeer
Apache grows to size 6
Apache finishes: Musketeer
Avignon finishes: Musketeer

Turn 166/500 (1060 AD) [08-Dec-2012 04:11:07]
Marseilles begins: Musketeer (7 turns)
Apache begins: Musketeer (10 turns)
Lyons begins: Musketeer (40 turns)
A Farm was built near Uzbek
100% Research: 442 per turn
0% Espionage: 12 per turn
0% Gold: -163 per turn, 901 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Lyons
The whip was applied in Rheims
The whip was applied in Uzbek
Tech research finished: Optics
Orleans grows to size 8
Lyons grows to size 6
Lyons finishes: Musketeer
Rheims grows to size 9
Rheims finishes: Musketeer
Apache finishes: Musketeer
Uzbek grows to size 4
Uzbek finishes: Musketeer
Avignon grows to size 3

Turn 167/500 (1070 AD) [08-Dec-2012 04:18:19]
Research begun: Printing Press (5 Turns)
Rheims begins: Caravel (6 turns)
Tours begins: Musketeer (12 turns)
Apache begins: Musketeer (10 turns)
Uzbek begins: Musketeer (40 turns)
Orleans begins: Musketeer (8 turns)
Apache begins: Caravel (8 turns)

We now have Musketeers, swords, and archers in position and ready to move on Brennus this turn and I believe I will take 2 cities on T168, 1 on T169 and be knocking on Bibracte's door by T170. And knocking it done on T171 ))

 

[ZPV]

Well played so far!

Compass<->Literature is something to think about.
What about an explorer for one of the caravels?

 

[BLubmuz]

If you think we can have a tactical advantage with Engineering, go for it. Then PP. We have 11 villages and 5 towns according to your save, so it gives us +16c. Better have a military tech we can use now.

Did you whipped in the inherited turn? Orleans has a musket ready next turn, at least when i saved. It was a chopped forest.

I think you can build a couple chariots, see all those axes around.

Keep the missionaries in the cities before spread, they work like spies - for the chances.

 

[Shaandore]

Well played!

I wouldn't build chariots. A Musket has better chances against an axe, and much better chance against anything else. It can take twice as many axes easily, and costs about the same in hammers as 2.5 chariots. But we pay 1 for a musket and 2.5 for 2.5 chariots every turn.

I vote for PP first. Maybe the other continent already has Engineering.

My suggestions for next TS:

Chartres- whip the courthouse. 3 unimproved tiles are worked ATM. Then whip a musket or something and use the Galley to ship it over. Those green tiles should get workshopped later.

Paris should work all cottages. There is no sense in working a plains farm before Biology at all, since they don't provide food surplus. We do get to the next size sooner, but until then we don't work a cottage with that citizen. You should switch the plains farm for that town 2E, and use the new citizen to steal a Hamlet from Tours.

Building cottages now is not a very strong move, unless we plan to go for early democracy and emancipatipon to grow them in time to be useful. (Sushi has a very good synergy with Slavery, so this seems unlikely) Farms, workshops, windmills, watermills will provide us more overall commerce in those ~100 turns that is left from the game. (Provided we work all the cottages we build now in these 100 turns, we would get the nice town bonus of Free Speech on them only in the last 30 turns.)

Sadly, Brennus' cities are still underdeveloped, so we will need to build many things, and they will be a drain on our economy for a while. They should get whipped to ground with infrastructure (Granaries, courthouses) and units, so we can keep up with improvements.

Workshops are a safe bet on every tile that can not/should not be irragted. (Around Chartres for example). We will have Guilds and Chemistry relatively early, so they will be a very good improvement. Rheims is also a Farm/workshop city.

 

[unclethrill]

Looks like been us has a good many workers so we should get a quick influx of workers for the improvements needed.

 

[unclethrill]

Okay so 3 people have chimed in. I will try to get a PPP for the next section ready tonight and play some more on Sunday.

 

[BLubmuz]

Cottages may not be of much use now, but early Democracy does. If we manage to take all our continent, the SoL will be very powerful. And we're industrious and soon with copper. We can even consider to spend Lib on it, even if it's worth less beakers than other techs.

 

[BLubmuz]

Okay so 3 people have chimed in. I will try to get a PPP for the next section ready tonight and play some more on Sunday.

You plan to declare next turn if i get it right. There're archer+chariot+worker in a jungle and i've seen only a 2 moves unit in the stack close to them. If you can have another 2 moves unit would be great.

Then go on, kill'em all!