Shaandore
another mathematician
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Answers in red
SGOTM 16 - Fifth Element
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Answers in red
Whip the musket in Tours. That way you can build another unit in 1 turn.
I'm fairly sure the stack will unload onto the forest, so long as there is at least one catapult on board. We'll upgrade next turn if there's too much danger.
Research the bare minimum to get Biology this turn - 574bpt visible is what you need (a little above this doesn't hurt). We'll want the gold, and can then spend it on research or corporate expansion.
We are not ready to build ICS-style settlers yet; only resource-grabbing ones. Factories, executives, and Medicine are all more important.
Remember, cannons cannot attack amphibiously. You'll have to land them if you want to use them on Heiraconopolis.
Ignore the unhappiness in Thebes for now. (Well, it'll need happiness infrastructure eventually, but the factory and coal plant are more important.)
Yes, it's ok to leave Paris undefended for one turn.
Don't be afraid to whip factories. That's what we went into slavery for. The citizens will grow back, and we can do useful things like build wealth in the meantime.
Libraries, etc: build them when we actually have hammers. In the mean time, it's better to put that 1h/turn into wealth.
Machine Guns cannot attack. Paris should build a musketeer, since that'll be done in one turn.
I'm fairly sure the stack will unload onto the forest, so long as there is at least one catapult on board. We'll upgrade next turn if there's too much danger.
Research the bare minimum to get Biology this turn - 574bpt visible is what you need (a little above this doesn't hurt). We'll want the gold, and can then spend it on research or corporate expansion.
We are not ready to build ICS-style settlers yet; only resource-grabbing ones. Factories, executives, and Medicine are all more important.
Remember, cannons cannot attack amphibiously. You'll have to land them if you want to use them on Heiraconopolis.
Ignore the unhappiness in Thebes for now. (Well, it'll need happiness infrastructure eventually, but the factory and coal plant are more important.)
Yes, it's ok to leave Paris undefended for one turn.
Don't be afraid to whip factories. That's what we went into slavery for. The citizens will grow back, and we can do useful things like build wealth in the meantime.
Libraries, etc: build them when we actually have hammers. In the mean time, it's better to put that 1h/turn into wealth.
Machine Guns cannot attack. Paris should build a musketeer, since that'll be done in one turn.
Shaandore
another mathematician
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PPP
Tours upgrade warrior to a machine gun and finish the half built musket. Unless ZPV is confident that warrior and musket will prevent a amphibious assault. In that case I will use money to spread mining inc instead.
The four cannons in Apache will move east. they should be instrumental in decimating the invasion force.
That was my plan too. They can be there in 2 turns, so if they land, they will get eaten by cannons. I assigned some military units, but please change them so it all makes sense. We need to make sure they don't attack from the ships directly. That's the time when having Chicken Pizza is useful
In the south Harappan will fall this turn. In three turns Akhetaten will fall. In four turns Heraconpolis will fall to a amphibious invasion. I could kill Heraconpolis in three turns but but it will not be as safe for our galleon. If we loose it, that would delay the war victory.
Harappan this turn? We would have to sacrifice a lot of muskets. (We can't use enemy roads!) Don't be that hasty, we have more important things to build than musket replacement. Heal for one turn on the tile NE of Harappan. The most injured cannons can bombard, they won't have time to heal anyway .
Paris builds a machine gun. Have two workers build a railroad on the corn.
Machine gun takes two turns, and only defends. I would rather have something to kill the guys remaining after the cannon attack. Try to build 1-turn units in the surronding cities. If they land, they will bombard. We can do a 1-turn wall in Tours after the Musket, so they won't attack for a while.
Get Medicin then research rifling.
Okay if we don't want SoL. maybe we don't.
I will build mostly factories and wealth. I will not allow beakers at break even to go below 1k.
500 gold is more than enough for Corp spreading before sushi. After that, we will need ~800 gold for that. Try to spread to older & stronger cities first so we can spread faster.
I will make sure to be building on five executives every turn.
Try to build in cities that can do executives in 1 turn. Thebes should keep on doing that for a while, it is more important than getting its factory. Unless we run for SoL, but we could build it in Orleans for the culture.
Workers will prioritize to connect all cities with railroads. Then mines and workshops. Possibly farms somewhere.
We don't need more3 farms, we get Biology next turn and sushi a couple turns later. You will find yourself building workshops over farms, especially in hammer cities (Thebes, Orleans, )
Uzbeck will build a settler.
I would pass that to Tolosa. Uzbek is our secondary unit pump, it should get its infra and then go back to unit pumping. Same for Apache.
Get a market in Thebes for happiness.
Trade for Fur with Qin. That should be enough for a couple turns, so we can build more Executives. Only build market when it is about to grow.
I will try to build a few more settlers as well.
See my previous post... Few more is fine, but 20 is overkill.
Please come with feedback fast so that I may play and make a new PPP tomorrow.
Some additions to the above:
Check MI/Sushi resource trades every turn. Prepare workboats and a Frigate/Privateer for the barb island so we get that crab and fish as soon as the fort is ready.
The southern islands need military police nad hinduism spread.
We also need missionaries in the new Ram area.
EDIT: xpost with ZPV. It seems that he wants Factory+Plant first rather than executives in Thebes. But we agree that market should wait
Gergovia has to pop a great person for our next golden age. (And make sure not to hire a scientist or priest.) Do not whip away its citizens.
Shaandore
another mathematician
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Gergovia needs at least 3 specialists hired so Orleans doesn't take over the next GP. I would actually prefer 4 specialists so we don't need to wait that long. It gets MI this turn, so should be much faster at levee production. (4 turns if my calculations are right) It will start growing very fast once we get the Biology bonus on the farms. We should put Globe here, cause this city will get insanely big. It should be one of the first citites that get sushi as well.
I hope you read my "notes for next player" post, those spreading plans are easy to mix, they can only travel 10 tiles on RR, so if you send one to some other city than planned, then you will have a guy running around and will be able to produce less executives next turn.
Even with the plan, you will be able to start 4 execs since the executive of Chartres will take longer to arrive.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
First off, sorry to have been not too active, but i'm a bit busy.
Yes, Folket is up. But i already seen he posted a got it, so it's OK.
Then, i asked to have LBs as MP in all our coastal cities and someone answered me that we can see the invaders arrive from a million miles away (or something like that). Now we have a warrior in small city and a warrior in our capital.... good! How much cost upgrade a warrior to MG? 350g, almost all we have. I told we're too greedy. Let's hope to manage this problem. BTW, not Paris nor Tours have barracks. Great! Let's build whealth. Too greedy.
In any case, we're lucky that Tours has a musket half produced, so it can be there if they attack amphibiuous and Paris can produce one in 1 turn or better, a cannon. But i'm mostly worried by knights and they can pillage our towns, so carefully grown. Also, muskets are not that good in attack, not even against med units. Our railroad network is to be completed (obviously we can't have done it faster). I'm seriously concerned.
I think the best we can do is to complete the musket in Tours (we can even whip it for 1 pop to have overflow), then start another one. Build a cannon in Paris, which is almost as good as a MG against med units and can do a lot of collateral and upgrade the warrior to MG. This won't save us from possible pillaging
5 galleons if fully loaded can mean 15 units. a big problem. But i've seen 4 cannons in Apache and they can reach Paris in 1 turn.
Then, i think that Orleans can complete its facory and let the overflow go in a unit better than a pike. If only SB has maces or XBows pikes are completely useless.
In any case, the first step is to promote the warrior to C1 and upgrade it to MG. Any other unit is useless. Then, i told you that slavery is almost useless at this stage. Any unit can be produced in 1-2 turns, but from scratch whipping is a tragedy.
Yes, Folket is up. But i already seen he posted a got it, so it's OK.
Then, i asked to have LBs as MP in all our coastal cities and someone answered me that we can see the invaders arrive from a million miles away (or something like that). Now we have a warrior in small city and a warrior in our capital.... good! How much cost upgrade a warrior to MG? 350g, almost all we have. I told we're too greedy. Let's hope to manage this problem. BTW, not Paris nor Tours have barracks. Great! Let's build whealth. Too greedy.
In any case, we're lucky that Tours has a musket half produced, so it can be there if they attack amphibiuous and Paris can produce one in 1 turn or better, a cannon. But i'm mostly worried by knights and they can pillage our towns, so carefully grown. Also, muskets are not that good in attack, not even against med units. Our railroad network is to be completed (obviously we can't have done it faster). I'm seriously concerned.
I think the best we can do is to complete the musket in Tours (we can even whip it for 1 pop to have overflow), then start another one. Build a cannon in Paris, which is almost as good as a MG against med units and can do a lot of collateral and upgrade the warrior to MG. This won't save us from possible pillaging
5 galleons if fully loaded can mean 15 units. a big problem. But i've seen 4 cannons in Apache and they can reach Paris in 1 turn.
Then, i think that Orleans can complete its facory and let the overflow go in a unit better than a pike. If only SB has maces or XBows pikes are completely useless.
In any case, the first step is to promote the warrior to C1 and upgrade it to MG. Any other unit is useless. Then, i told you that slavery is almost useless at this stage. Any unit can be produced in 1-2 turns, but from scratch whipping is a tragedy.
Shaandore
another mathematician
- Joined
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I would write a modified PPP that includes all the information of the above posts. Try to divide it to sections like I did, it helps me to understand and have a clear view of things. (Maybe use other colors for other people's ideas.) It helps non-active players to understand how you will play, and writing it down helps you to not forget things when you play. (I even forget a few things if I do it like this. If the posts are scattered through 2 pages, I would forget half of the important things)
The first post says that we need to wait 24 hours for reactions. Since we are running out of time, I would say that you can move on with 2-3 green lights. But I'm no team leader, so Blubmuz should answer this question.
I would suggest that you play until the discovery of Medicine. That's a good point to discuss sushi spreading.
Shaandore
another mathematician
- Joined
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It's my fault, I somehow overlooked the stack. I saw the ships, but they were initially in Mound city. I moved around with the caravel. They must have been coming a few turns after me. The land units I didn't see, I guess they were stationed in an inland city. I should have gone back to check the north again with the caravel, but I didn't.
I still think that we did well when we chose wealth over barracks, they would have been a big investment in the early game. And even with 2 lbs in Tours, we wouldn't feel safer, we would be planning to upgrade one to Machine gun.
Luckily 4 cannons can be there in 2 turns, and we have high culture defense, so I'm not too worried.
It's my fault, I somehow overlooked the stack. I saw the ships, but they were initially in Mound city. I moved around with the caravel. They must have been coming a few turns after me. The land units I didn't see, I guess they were stationed in an inland city. I should have gone back to check the north again with the caravel, but I didn't.
The units were probably already loaded on the boats. You do not see them if they are loaded.
I still think that we did well when we chose wealth over barracks, they would have been a big investment in the early game. And even with 2 lbs in Tours, we wouldn't feel safer, we would be planning to upgrade one to Machine gun.
Luckily 4 cannons can be there in 2 turns, and we have high culture defense, so I'm not too worried.
......
Shaandore
another mathematician
- Joined
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Actually, they were galleys and caravels when I saw them. I think he upgraded to galleons and loaded them later, but that doesn't matter.
I didn't mean rushing missionaries (i.e. whipping), just that they are not easy to produce since we can only have 3 of them at a time in prod ques or moving.
On the whipping in Tours question, I think whipping is better. Even after the cannons we need units to destroy the stack. So a second musket will be handy. And it's very low cost, one pop whip and that citizen is working ocean anyway. We will have sushi soon, so no worries about growing back
.
I didn't mean rushing missionaries (i.e. whipping), just that they are not easy to produce since we can only have 3 of them at a time in prod ques or moving.
On the whipping in Tours question, I think whipping is better. Even after the cannons we need units to destroy the stack. So a second musket will be handy. And it's very low cost, one pop whip and that citizen is working ocean anyway. We will have sushi soon, so no worries about growing back
.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
Probably an Xpost. We have to whip in Tours only if we want overflow. The musket was probably started by UT, so now it can be ready in 1t.On the whipping in Tours question, I think whipping is better. Even after the cannons we need units to destroy the stack. So a second musket will be handy. And it's very low cost, one pop whip and that citizen is working ocean anyway. We will have sushi soon, so no worries about growing back
WARNING! the post you quoted was heavily edited.
PPP until I have medicine.
Cities:
Tours upgrade warrior to a machine gun and finish the half built musket. Unless ZPV is confident that warrior and musket will prevent a amphibious assault. In that case I will use money to spread mining inc instead. Will whip the musket so that the overflow will allow us to build a second musket fast as well.
Paris builds a machine gun or a LB. Have two workers build a railroad on the corn.
I will make sure to be building on five executives every turn if possible.
War:
The four cannons in Apache will move east. they should be instrumental in decimating the invasion force.
In the south Harappan will fall this turn. In three turns Akhetaten will fall. In four turns Heraconpolis will fall to a amphibious invasion. I could kill Heraconpolis in three turns but but it will not be as safe for our galleon. If we loose it, that would delay the war victory.
I have looked at it and it seems that I may do better by delaying the conquest of Harappan and Akhetaten 1 turn.
Heraconpolis only have 1 lb as defence. I think it is best to take it with muskets amphibiously as if we don't we will loose our galleon to those caravels.
New cities:
One settler in Avignon to settle north of Rouen.
Will buuild wealth to spead up medicin instead of creating more cities.
Civics, GPP:
Rum 4 artists/marchants in Gergovia to make sure it gets the next GP.
Diplo:
Trade for marble and mining inc resources. (no need to trade for sushi as we can't before we get it)
Research:
Keep slider low enough to have enough money for MI spread. One turn as low as possible to have money either for spreading MI and upgrades or research next turn.
Research Biology and medicine. When I get medicine I will start rifling and save.
workers:
Workers will prioritize to connect all cities with railroads. Then mines and workshops. Possibly farms somewhere.
Cities:
Tours upgrade warrior to a machine gun and finish the half built musket. Unless ZPV is confident that warrior and musket will prevent a amphibious assault. In that case I will use money to spread mining inc instead. Will whip the musket so that the overflow will allow us to build a second musket fast as well.
Paris builds a machine gun or a LB. Have two workers build a railroad on the corn.
I will make sure to be building on five executives every turn if possible.
War:
The four cannons in Apache will move east. they should be instrumental in decimating the invasion force.
In the south Harappan will fall this turn. In three turns Akhetaten will fall. In four turns Heraconpolis will fall to a amphibious invasion. I could kill Heraconpolis in three turns but but it will not be as safe for our galleon. If we loose it, that would delay the war victory.
I have looked at it and it seems that I may do better by delaying the conquest of Harappan and Akhetaten 1 turn.
Heraconpolis only have 1 lb as defence. I think it is best to take it with muskets amphibiously as if we don't we will loose our galleon to those caravels.
New cities:
One settler in Avignon to settle north of Rouen.
Will buuild wealth to spead up medicin instead of creating more cities.
Civics, GPP:
Rum 4 artists/marchants in Gergovia to make sure it gets the next GP.
Diplo:
Trade for marble and mining inc resources. (no need to trade for sushi as we can't before we get it)
Research:
Keep slider low enough to have enough money for MI spread. One turn as low as possible to have money either for spreading MI and upgrades or research next turn.
Research Biology and medicine. When I get medicine I will start rifling and save.
workers:
Workers will prioritize to connect all cities with railroads. Then mines and workshops. Possibly farms somewhere.
I'd like you to be explicit in a couple of things:
1) Which units you will build/upgrade, and where, to deal with SB's stack.
2) Ideas around conquering Egypt.
3) What our priorities are. These will inform city management choices.
4) Little fiddly things that are important but you might forget.
------------
Some more thoughts:
Re: (1)
Something we'll have to consider is that SB might be planning to drop his units off outside Paris.
Re: (2)
Pillage those worthless cottages and hamlets in neutral or enemy land with any healthy musketeers we have. We need the gold. Hopefully this will let you upgrade the warrior and do some corporation spreading.
Capturing Harrapan is a possibility too, but I think that should wait until next turn when we can remove the cultural defence and suicide one cannon rather than 2+ musketeers.
Akhetaten is a good city to march on without cannons.
edit: Xpost.
Re: (3)
I see these as:
1a) Killing SB's stack
1b) Spreading corporations and building factories+coal plants (since these increase our output a lot)
1c) Researching to medicine.
2) Making sure the next golden age is not too far away.
3) Other stuff to increase our empire's output.
In that light, somewhere like Uzbek should whip its factory, rather than slowbuild it. Losing citizens does not hurt as much as spending time to slowbuild it.
3, My priority is as fast medicine as possible while killing egypt and killing the native american stack. i.e. building a lot of wealth while spreading MI.
1. I would like you to decide if we need to upgrade the warrior to a machine gun. Other then that I think 4 cannons, 4 muskets, 1 LB and 1 pikeman will take care of it. most of teh units are already started. I will change the knight in Apache to a musket. If I feel threatened I will upgrade a warrior to a machine gun.
If he drops outside Paris I will still reach it with all units I built/moved.
2. I will heal the half that are next to the great general while the others move towards the first city. Next turn I will bombard defenses down to 0 and attack with full strengh musketmen. I will probably loose 1-2. The "healed" stack will now move down to the city. I will let teh other stakc heal for a turn while loading the most healed cannons on the galleon.
Next turn I will unload the cannons outside teh last mainland city while moving muskets there and loading 4 muskets on the galleon. Turn after that I will capture the last two cities.
Plunder is a good idea.
4. I'm uncertain as to what you are refering to.
1. I would like you to decide if we need to upgrade the warrior to a machine gun. Other then that I think 4 cannons, 4 muskets, 1 LB and 1 pikeman will take care of it. most of teh units are already started. I will change the knight in Apache to a musket. If I feel threatened I will upgrade a warrior to a machine gun.
If he drops outside Paris I will still reach it with all units I built/moved.
2. I will heal the half that are next to the great general while the others move towards the first city. Next turn I will bombard defenses down to 0 and attack with full strengh musketmen. I will probably loose 1-2. The "healed" stack will now move down to the city. I will let teh other stakc heal for a turn while loading the most healed cannons on the galleon.
Next turn I will unload the cannons outside teh last mainland city while moving muskets there and loading 4 muskets on the galleon. Turn after that I will capture the last two cities.
Plunder is a good idea.
4. I'm uncertain as to what you are refering to.
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