SGOTM 16 - Fifth Element
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
PPP for my last 8 turns.
Cities:
Sushi priority to
Giza
Gergovia
Bagacum
Uzbeck
Vienne
Rheims
Heliopolis
Tolosa
Orleans
Verlamion
These cities will slowbuild infrastructure to get as high pop as possible.
Thebes and Paris will also get early.
Other cities will build wealth til they are size 10, then whip factory and coal plant.
My estimate is that this is more effective then slowbuilding factories they are unable to whip. 1 turn of production into both factory and coal plant before whip.
Don't start building wealth in any new city unless it has basic infra. That includes Granary, Courthouse, Forge, Library. Even lighthouse if the city has sushi resource. Eg. Poitier can build a library in 1 turn, and run a scientists after that.
War:
Build galleons and infantry and transport them to Arabian land to wait for the war with Hammurabi. Can start a shuttle traffic now and then plan to have three full galleon outside Babylon. Build 3 spies to bring down defences. Babylon can be bombarded.
New cities:
Build blue dots.
Still want to build on the red dots. Even for a win in 31 turns they will pay us back many times. but as noone is backing me I will not do it.
Civics, GPP:
I think we should launch a golden age in three turn and change to cast system pacifism.
Diplo:
Sell replaceable parts to China.
Gift one resources to Sitting bull. (silk?) Accept any demand by sitting bull (not corp resources).
He is far behind and it will be easier for us to control the game if we can get him to pleased and keep him there.
We also want to keep all opponents at pleased as otherwise they could join our war with Hammurabi and Hammurabi would peace vassal to them.
Trades for resources.
Put all EP against Saladin.
Research:
Electricity->Combustion->Radio->Flight
workers:
Build farms around
Giza
Gergovia
Bagacum
Uzbeck
Vienne
Rheims
Heliopolis
Tolosa
Orleans
Verlamion
Don't forget.
workboat in Rouen.
produce Culture in Alexandria for one turn with a workboat somewhere.
artists in Orleans and Gergovia.
Cities:
Sushi priority to
Giza
Gergovia
Bagacum
Uzbeck
Vienne
Rheims
Heliopolis
Tolosa
Orleans
Verlamion
These cities will slowbuild infrastructure to get as high pop as possible.
Thebes and Paris will also get early.
Other cities will build wealth til they are size 10, then whip factory and coal plant.
My estimate is that this is more effective then slowbuilding factories they are unable to whip. 1 turn of production into both factory and coal plant before whip.
Don't start building wealth in any new city unless it has basic infra. That includes Granary, Courthouse, Forge, Library. Even lighthouse if the city has sushi resource. Eg. Poitier can build a library in 1 turn, and run a scientists after that.
War:
Build galleons and infantry and transport them to Arabian land to wait for the war with Hammurabi. Can start a shuttle traffic now and then plan to have three full galleon outside Babylon. Build 3 spies to bring down defences. Babylon can be bombarded.
New cities:
Build blue dots.
Still want to build on the red dots. Even for a win in 31 turns they will pay us back many times. but as noone is backing me I will not do it.
Civics, GPP:
I think we should launch a golden age in three turn and change to cast system pacifism.
Diplo:
Sell replaceable parts to China.
Gift one resources to Sitting bull. (silk?) Accept any demand by sitting bull (not corp resources).
He is far behind and it will be easier for us to control the game if we can get him to pleased and keep him there.
We also want to keep all opponents at pleased as otherwise they could join our war with Hammurabi and Hammurabi would peace vassal to them.
Trades for resources.
Put all EP against Saladin.
Research:
Electricity->Combustion->Radio->Flight
workers:
Build farms around
Giza
Gergovia
Bagacum
Uzbeck
Vienne
Rheims
Heliopolis
Tolosa
Orleans
Verlamion
Don't forget.
workboat in Rouen.
produce Culture in Alexandria for one turn with a workboat somewhere.
artists in Orleans and Gergovia.
Shaandore
another mathematician
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2010
- Messages
- 868
First: Good job on counting the beakers! I just added up the turn numbers written on each tech, but since those numbers don't account for beaker overflow, and our output has increased, it looks really good! Problem is, we won't be able to get to legendary that soon. It means that building culture in Orleans is compulsory as soon as Orleans gets all its culture buildings. We also need our megacities at size ~22 (some bigger) to be able to starve enough great artists.
Check the tiles in Orelans. When building culture, the weaker hammer only tiles are usually worse than an artist specialist, since our culture multipliers are better than hammer multipliers there. If there is food though, then keep working it, we need to grow.
We need to move on with warring as well. The transportation time to the other continent is 6-7 turns at least, which is a lot with this timeframe. I wouldn't bother with too many infantry, they are slow. We need two of these for stack defense in the Babylonian war, but 4 will suffice for sure. After that I would stick to tanks, marines and some fighters/bombers + transports, carriers and battleships.
Which means we need to get combustion, industrialism and flight in this order.
Beakers into tech: there are two factors. One is the number of known civs that already has the tech. civ. (On this map, this gives 4% beaker increase for every known civ that already has the tech) The other is number of prereqs researched, and it is basically 20% for each prereq.
See more detailed explanation here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=146163
Check the tiles in Orelans. When building culture, the weaker hammer only tiles are usually worse than an artist specialist, since our culture multipliers are better than hammer multipliers there. If there is food though, then keep working it, we need to grow.
We need to move on with warring as well. The transportation time to the other continent is 6-7 turns at least, which is a lot with this timeframe. I wouldn't bother with too many infantry, they are slow. We need two of these for stack defense in the Babylonian war, but 4 will suffice for sure. After that I would stick to tanks, marines and some fighters/bombers + transports, carriers and battleships.
Which means we need to get combustion, industrialism and flight in this order.
Beakers into tech: there are two factors. One is the number of known civs that already has the tech. civ. (On this map, this gives 4% beaker increase for every known civ that already has the tech) The other is number of prereqs researched, and it is basically 20% for each prereq.
See more detailed explanation here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=146163
I did a mistake. We do not need artillery so tech costs will be 6240 beakers cheaper.
All tech will be researched with minimum requirement. So we need only produce 124280 beakers. that should not be a problem at all in 31 turns. I need to count on how much we can sacrifice to get our 2 LCs in 30 turns.
All tech will be researched with minimum requirement. So we need only produce 124280 beakers. that should not be a problem at all in 31 turns. I need to count on how much we can sacrifice to get our 2 LCs in 30 turns.
Our golden ages are 12 turns right. So if we start one in 3 turns. We can start a second one in 17 turns. during the first one we just change civics and generate great people to start a second one which we use to starve great artists.
Shaandore
another mathematician
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2010
- Messages
- 868
Don't start a golden age, because we don't have any means to pop 4 different GPs for sure for one more golden age. That would ruin our plans pretty badly. We need to hold off next golden age until the megacities are at least around size 21-22. Then we can try to get one more golden age, but let's wait and see what kind of GP we get from Thebes first. We will also need sy for founding the 3rd corp.
8 turns is too much, plan for researching electricity and combustion, and report after that. We might want to squeeze in Industrialism before Radio to start an army. Start the eletricity wonder (Broadway) in Orleans for the multiplier.
Spread Buddhism to Gergovia. Build 3 Buddhist temples, and build a Buddhist Stupa in Gergovia.
Same for Christianity, get a cathedral in Gergovia.
Gergovia is the highest priority for Sushi.
Note that Infantry is mostly for defense, maybe getting the top defender, but cannons+muskets will do most of the heavy lifting. Concentrate on getting enough Galleons/transports instead so we can move our troops. With 3 battleships/destroyers, the bombardment of Babylon can be done, so we don't need as many cannons there as in Dur-K.
Thebes should run something other than priest/scientists as free specialist. We want to increase the chance of getting a useful GP from here, so we can save the gergovia artist for culture bombing. Engineer would be the obvious choice.
We have 159432 beakers left, you might have missed some techs. Our beaker output is 2000 now, we can assume an ~1,2 modifer on all techs. I imagine that we can achieve an average of 3000 bpt, so that gives us 45 turns left.
EDIT: Actually, I hope we get a better beaker output, and we will also have at least one golden age, so that should be ~35 turns.
Red dots: I don't know. I would like other team members to say something about those. If you decide to settle one or two, don't build settlers in megacities 'cause they stagnate growth. And only if we have spare Galleons for this kind of job. Our war effort and getting Sistine is more important IMO.
8 turns is too much, plan for researching electricity and combustion, and report after that. We might want to squeeze in Industrialism before Radio to start an army. Start the eletricity wonder (Broadway) in Orleans for the multiplier.
Spread Buddhism to Gergovia. Build 3 Buddhist temples, and build a Buddhist Stupa in Gergovia.
Same for Christianity, get a cathedral in Gergovia.
Gergovia is the highest priority for Sushi.
Note that Infantry is mostly for defense, maybe getting the top defender, but cannons+muskets will do most of the heavy lifting. Concentrate on getting enough Galleons/transports instead so we can move our troops. With 3 battleships/destroyers, the bombardment of Babylon can be done, so we don't need as many cannons there as in Dur-K.
Thebes should run something other than priest/scientists as free specialist. We want to increase the chance of getting a useful GP from here, so we can save the gergovia artist for culture bombing. Engineer would be the obvious choice.
We have 159432 beakers left, you might have missed some techs. Our beaker output is 2000 now, we can assume an ~1,2 modifer on all techs. I imagine that we can achieve an average of 3000 bpt, so that gives us 45 turns left.
EDIT: Actually, I hope we get a better beaker output, and we will also have at least one golden age, so that should be ~35 turns.
Red dots: I don't know. I would like other team members to say something about those. If you decide to settle one or two, don't build settlers in megacities 'cause they stagnate growth. And only if we have spare Galleons for this kind of job. Our war effort and getting Sistine is more important IMO.
Shaandore
another mathematician
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2010
- Messages
- 868
Actually, if Thebes' next GP (10 turns from now) is none of GScientist, GArtist and GMerchant, then we can try to get one more golden age, since these 3 can be starved.
(It also means thet the Gergovia GArtist and our current GS and GP will start the next GA.)
This means that we should have 2 decent food cities for this. (Isca and Cherbourg?)
Don't run artists in these. Free spec in Isca should be a Merchant. Cherbourg should not hire specs before it is size 20, after that only scientists.
Build a levee in Heliopolis! Don't whip, we have very good hammer tiles here, we just need to grow on them. (Sushi will help). Especially don't whip since Heliop is going to be a megacity!
So once again, regarding builds, we need:
5 Sushi executives
Missionaries (hinduism in megacities for Pacifism bonus, buddhism&Christianity in Gergovia.) This has to be done while we are in Org Rel!!!
4 theaters (one of them this turn in Orleans)
Wealth to run at 100%
Factories and Coal plants
war prep (ships and a couple infantry)
3+3 temples for cathedrals in Gergovia
(It also means thet the Gergovia GArtist and our current GS and GP will start the next GA.)
This means that we should have 2 decent food cities for this. (Isca and Cherbourg?)
Don't run artists in these. Free spec in Isca should be a Merchant. Cherbourg should not hire specs before it is size 20, after that only scientists.
Build a levee in Heliopolis! Don't whip, we have very good hammer tiles here, we just need to grow on them. (Sushi will help). Especially don't whip since Heliop is going to be a megacity!
So once again, regarding builds, we need:
5 Sushi executives
Missionaries (hinduism in megacities for Pacifism bonus, buddhism&Christianity in Gergovia.) This has to be done while we are in Org Rel!!!
4 theaters (one of them this turn in Orleans)
Wealth to run at 100%
Factories and Coal plants
war prep (ships and a couple infantry)
3+3 temples for cathedrals in Gergovia
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
Instead of trigger a GAge just to change civics, better move fast to Radio and build the CR in Thebes. After that we can revolt at wish. If we got a GE we can even burn him on it.
If i see Paris farmed i think i can get sick.
If i see Paris farmed i think i can get sick.
Good point on the cristo redentor.
I think we should make Thebes our second legendary. We can get it up to 600 culture a turn within a few turns. All we need to do is spread Judaism there and build the cathedrals at one a turn.
I think I was wrong about Gergovia. It is finally starting to become useful but we are better off using it as a GA farm.
I think we should make Thebes our second legendary. We can get it up to 600 culture a turn within a few turns. All we need to do is spread Judaism there and build the cathedrals at one a turn.
I think I was wrong about Gergovia. It is finally starting to become useful but we are better off using it as a GA farm.
Shaandore
another mathematician
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2010
- Messages
- 868
Yes, CR would be nice, but IMO we will be about to start the GA when we would get it..
I agree on the Paris thing
Shaandore
another mathematician
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2010
- Messages
- 868
I agree that culture is the bottleneck. The question is, what brings us more culture? Sistine or Radio?
I think thet Gergovia is the place that needs more culture, but production is low there, so building wonders there is not really an option. Thus I vote for warring first, which brings us Sistine sooner, and helps both Orelans and Gergovia.
My point is, I agree that we can get this war done with just Galleons, so it's a good idea to postpone combustion after that, but in that case produce Galleons and start the war ASAP so we get Sistine sooner.
I think thet Gergovia is the place that needs more culture, but production is low there, so building wonders there is not really an option. Thus I vote for warring first, which brings us Sistine sooner, and helps both Orelans and Gergovia.
My point is, I agree that we can get this war done with just Galleons, so it's a good idea to postpone combustion after that, but in that case produce Galleons and start the war ASAP so we get Sistine sooner.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
Sistine is a great help, but it brings culture "only" to relig. buildings of your state religion* and specialists. Radio has R&R which is like a cathedral and the Eiffel which brings a Cathedral in any city (not actually, but the effect is the same). But one does not exclude the other. Once our troops are landed we don't care Hammu's navy. It's important to build 2 stacks and the necessary galleons, with max 2 frigates as escort each. Combustion does not automatically give access to destroyers, but Hammu has a fort on oil, so it does. But we can use a knight or a musket to pillage it the turn we declare. In any case, all the AIs still lack SP, then the path is long for them.
* at this stage, this means 5*2 (no monastery) + 2 for each specialist. An help, not much more.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
Thebes will be busy building wonders, some of them not give much culture. True that it can build Cathedrals in no time, but i think it's not enough. Orleans and Gergovia can work for sure.
I recommend to have a clear plan until the end game before play again. This means:
- Decision for the 2 VCs
- Decision for the LCs
This affects the choice of where to build Broadway and R&R and maybe the Eiffel, which, aside the free BT in any city gives a huge culture itself.
edit
Alan answered me and i posted a request in the Maint. Thread.
Shaandore
another mathematician
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2010
- Messages
- 868
This. We must have it by the time we start starving Gergovia for GAs, so the artists have full potential. With the long travelling times to the other continent, our time window is getting slim.
On the VCs I have stated my preference plenty of times. I think that we should stick to Orleans and Gergovia as legendaries.
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