SGOTM 16 - Fifth Element

[BSPollux]

I didnt open any savefiles when it wasnt my time to play so far.

But the situation is becoming more and more confusing so I am thinking about opening it to stay informed. I got some questions thou, and you somewhen said I should not use the maint channels so you'll have to answer:

-am I allowed to do things there that dont reveal anything new? Like when a settler is allready in place, may I test-build the city to see the upkeep change? such things
-if I happen to move a piece by accidentand learn something, like right clicking and thereby moving a unit and spotting a barb, Do I have to call for a stop and submit that new save or what?
-are there any buggy parts in that anticheat mod that i could thumble into by accident? like loading too ofter, saving on exit or anything that could screw us over?

No worries I tend to be carefull, i just want to no what-if, just in case

 

[ZPV]

I didnt open any savefiles when it wasnt my time to play so far.

But the situation is becoming more and more confusing so I am thinking about opening it to stay informed. I got some questions thou, and you somewhen said I should not use the maint channels so you'll have to answer:

-am I allowed to do things there that dont reveal anything new? Like when a settler is allready in place, may I test-build the city to see the upkeep change? such things

no, absolutely not. The rule is you can do nothing irreversible - i.e. you have to - in principle - be able to leave the game in the exact same state you found it.

-if I happen to move a piece by accidentand learn something, like right clicking and thereby moving a unit and spotting a barb, Do I have to call for a stop and submit that new save or what?

If you accidentally move a unit in the live save, we're stuck with it, so let us know and upload the new save.

-are there any buggy parts in that anticheat mod that i could thumble into by accident? like loading too ofter, saving on exit or anything that could screw us over?

I haven't heard of any, and it's been in use for a long time now. I would assume that it is reliable.

 

[BSPollux]

thank you

 

[Shaandore]

PPP for next (hopefully at most 3) turns:

Non-worker units:
-settler heads to horse/deer spot NE of Lyons
-Exploring warrior fights the barb warrior in a forest, and he gets promoted to woodsman. Continue exploring after that.
- The warrior near Gergovia heads north into new city to serve as military police. (The land is fogbusted now.)
- North fogbusting warrior goes 1N to fogbust the north corner of our landmass.
-Exploring workboat turns back and tries to circle the island the other way round.
- We try to steal with the spy ASAP

Diplo&research:
-Start researching currency so we can get it in 5 turns
- trade sailing for writing with Brennus
- do we trade for monarchy with ramesses for the immediate happy boost? We could get it for alpha+math (IMO a bit too expensive)

Cities:
-Orleans starts building a spy just in case. Shall I switch off food completely for a turn so we don't get an unhappy face for two turns?
-Lyons finishes worker, then builds research.
-Paris builds research
-Tours build workboat with a chop, then starts garanry
-Rheims starts building forge

Workers:
-The worker near Orleans roads the wheat tile, then heads north to set up new city
-The worker built in lyons will improve and road the horses
-One worker at Tours will chop the forest SW of tours into the workboat.
-Other Tours worker chops the forest E of Paris, and builds cottage on that tile.
-The two Rheims workers road the pig tile so it can get improved faster when IW is in.

 

[ZPV]

With all the rounding errors, I'm fairly sure IW will be available to steal next turn at a cost of 355 or 360EP.
(The overall modifier is calculated multiplicatively, truncating to 2d.p. after each operation, and it should come out at 0.76 or 0.77).
No for the Monarchy trade. After Currency, we should research Masonry, and trade for Monarchy and Monotheism together.
Orleans: let it grow, rather than work worse tiles or play with the avoid growth button. We don't have convenient powerful foodless tiles.
Tours: Is it better to whip the WB and put the chop into the granary?

Good luck!

 

[Shaandore]

With all the rounding errors, I'm fairly sure IW will be available to steal next turn at a cost of 355 or 360EP.
(The overall modifier is calculated multiplicatively, truncating to 2d.p. after each operation, and it should come out at 0.76 or 0.77).
No for the Monarchy trade. After Currency, we should research Masonry, and trade for Monarchy and Monotheism together.
Orleans: let it grow, rather than work worse tiles or play with the avoid growth button. We don't have convenient powerful foodless tiles.
Tours: Is it better to whip the WB and put the chop into the granary?

Good luck!

You are right about the stealing thing, I didn't do any calculations, it was just a guess. I didn't want to use avoiud growth, just to switch the wheat to the silk tile for 1 turn (or 2 turns? I would have to check it to be sure). So it would grow on the turn when the whip unhappiness disappears. I will look at the Tours MM soon.

I will play as soon as I get one more green light (It seems that we are talking about 1 turn after all)

 

[Folket]

Look fine with me.

 

[Shaandore]

Cross your fingers for our spy!
Playing now

 

[Shaandore]

Espionage Mission undertaken successfully!

I did have to wait for 3 turns though. I guess we lost TRs once I traded for sailing (Ramesses is farther, so he had better TRs, so they got switched.)

I included a picture of our only iron source.

I screwed up only two things this time:
workboat still went further into the icy nothingness in hopes of being able to circle around, but now it absoultely has to turn back. I'm very sorry for this.
The other is that I somehow missed that Paris is growing, so it has just become unhappy this turn.

We will have currency not far from now, and we can adjust our city to include the iron in BFC, so I'm fairly confident that we are in a good shape.

turnset log:

Spoiler :

Turn 80, 875 BC: You have discovered Animal Husbandry!
Turn 80, 875 BC: You have discovered Hunting!
Turn 80, 875 BC: Judaism has spread in Orleans.

Turn 83, 800 BC: The revolution has begun!!!
Turn 83, 800 BC: Louis XIV converts to Hinduism!
Turn 83, 800 BC: Ramesses II adopts Organized Religion!

Turn 84, 775 BC: You have discovered Fishing!
Turn 84, 775 BC: Chuang-Tzu (Great Prophet) has been born in Thebes (Ramesses II)!
Turn 84, 775 BC: Hinduism has spread in Rheims.

Turn 85, 750 BC: Ramesses II has completed The Mahabodhi!

Turn 86, 725 BC: Barbarian's Archer (2.61) vs Louis XIV's Krieger 2 (Orleans) (Warrior) (3.50)
Turn 86, 725 BC: Combat Odds: 17.1%
Turn 86, 725 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 86, 725 BC: (River Attack: +25%)
Turn 86, 725 BC: Louis XIV's Krieger 2 (Orleans) (Warrior) is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 86, 725 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 22 (65/100HP)
Turn 86, 725 BC: Louis XIV's Krieger 2 (Orleans) (Warrior) is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 86, 725 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 22 (43/100HP)
Turn 86, 725 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 22 (21/100HP)
Turn 86, 725 BC: Louis XIV's Krieger 2 (Orleans) (Warrior) is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 86, 725 BC: Louis XIV's Krieger 2 (Orleans) (Warrior) is hit for 17 (32/100HP)
Turn 86, 725 BC: Louis XIV's Krieger 2 (Orleans) (Warrior) is hit for 17 (15/100HP)
Turn 86, 725 BC: Louis XIV's Krieger 2 (Orleans) (Warrior) is hit for 17 (0/100HP)
Turn 86, 725 BC: Barbarian's Archer has defeated Louis XIV's Krieger 2 (Orleans) (Warrior)!

Turn 90, 625 BC: Judaism has spread in Paris.

Turn 91, 600 BC: You have trained a Spy in Orleans. Work has now begun on a Barracks.
Turn 91, 600 BC: You have trained a Work Boat in Rheims. Work has now begun on a Granary.

Turn 92, 575 BC: You have trained a Work Boat in Lyons. Work has now begun on a Research.

Turn 93, 550 BC: Socrates (Great Scientist) has been born in a far away land!
Turn 93, 550 BC: Judaism has spread in Rheims.

Turn 95, 500 BC: You have discovered Mathematics!
Turn 95, 500 BC: You have trained a Settler in Orleans. Work has now begun on a Barracks.

Turn 97, 450 BC: The borders of Orleans have expanded!
Turn 97, 450 BC: Ramesses II has completed The Pyramids!

Turn 98, 425 BC: Tours has been founded.
Turn 98, 425 BC: Ramesses II adopts Representation!

Turn 100, 375 BC: The borders of Lyons have expanded!

Turn 101, 350 BC: You have discovered Sailing!
Turn 101, 350 BC: You have constructed a Granary in Rheims. Work has now begun on a Forge.
Turn 101, 350 BC: Hinduism has spread in Gergovia.

Turn 102, 325 BC: Orleans will become unhappy on the next turn.
Turn 102, 325 BC: The borders of Tours are about to expand.
Turn 102, 325 BC: Orleans will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
Turn 102, 325 BC: Tours will grow to size 2 on the next turn.
Turn 102, 325 BC: The borders of Tours have expanded!
Turn 102, 325 BC: Barbarian's Warrior (2.00) vs Louis XIV's Warrior (3.40)
Turn 102, 325 BC: Combat Odds: 3.6%
Turn 102, 325 BC: (Plot Defense: +50%)
Turn 102, 325 BC: (Feature Defense: +20%)
Turn 102, 325 BC: Louis XIV's Warrior is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 102, 325 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 102, 325 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 102, 325 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 102, 325 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 102, 325 BC: Louis XIV's Warrior has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!
Turn 102, 325 BC: While defending, your Warrior has killed a Barbarian Warrior!

Turn 103, 300 BC: Paris will become unhappy on the next turn.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Orleans has grown to size 5.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Orleans has become unhappy.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Tours has grown to size 2.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Tours can hurry Work Boat for 1⇴ with 6ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Paris will grow to size 8 on the next turn.
Turn 103, 300 BC: You have trained a Work Boat in Tours. Work has now begun on a Granary.

Turn 104, 275 BC: Paris has grown to size 8.
Turn 104, 275 BC: Paris has become unhappy.
Turn 104, 275 BC: You have discovered Iron Working!
Turn 104, 275 BC: Espionage Mission undertaken successfully!
Turn 104, 275 BC: Upon completing the mission the Spy 2 (Orleans) has returned safely to Paris.

 

[Shaandore]

And BTW two objectives achieved, 8 to go!
Good job, team!

 

[ZPV]

Well played, Shaan!
Since we can get Iron, we should work to hook it up and build those three swords quickly for the barb cities.
We should also hook up the gems ASAP. Maybe there's time for a road on the pig, but no more than that.

Do I have "non-buyer's remorse" on Gergovia now that it has iron? A little bit. We'll be ok though - Brennus has at least four out of five cities on flatland, and I'm stoked to see there are quite a few Mining and Sushi resources.

Your Work Boat exploration is anything but a waste. That barb city is suspiciously ice-bound and has its borders popped long before you'd expect. I think Humbaba lives there and we'll need air power and cruise missiles to kill him over the ice. edit: maybe there's a land route; I can't quite tell. If so, that'll take up the entire barbarian quota for that island.

 

[BSPollux]

Somehow i thought we'd see some iron at paris to make it just a little better, but no, its still bad

 

[BLubmuz]

Good job Shaan!

Now, we must try to speed up things. Next resource to reveal is Coal, looooong away.

I must wait tomorrow to open the save, so i can see better.
For now i say that i don't change 2 grass hills for a crappy ice iron mine. Let's build a library first, chop anything in sight for that and a forge and soon we'll have our iron. We can road after the chop/mines.

The game is long, but we're using a good method to play fractioned TSs.

Next up is Folket, unless Unclethrill chimes in 12 hours. Then Pollux.

Can we try to steal a cheap tech from Brennus? and maybe his iron city is less expensive in terms of EPs than the one where we stole IW?

 

[Shaandore]

Folket, please check my previous PPP so you see what I intended to do. You could just change things that you don't like in that text, and add all that you want to do in the next 7-8 turns.

I agree with Blub, we shouln't drop the line now, and for that, the most important component is a fast PPP from active player as soon as a turnset gets played. (So we have things to discuss)

I would like to start the discussion on how we want to take out Brennus.
We can do:
- all out war
- war while teching to lib
We can use:
- cats
- trebs
- knights only
If we use siege, we can add:
- axes and swords
- maces
- xbows

I think that we are late for a knights only war, Brennus will have lbs by the time we can strike (unless we can bulb some techs). To strike with catapults, we would have to start building troops now, wich is painful, since our economy will get back on its feet 3 turns from now.

Doing an all out war with siege is slow, thus it slows us down for a long time. So if I had to decide now, I would go with trebs+whatever (maces preferably) while teching to lib. But my views can be altered with the right arguments

 

[Folket]

I got the save and had a closer look.

Would it not have been better to have farm on N and NW of Paris to get the corn irrigated. It seems like Paris will need some farms as it does not have enough food.

I will post a PPP later today.

 

[Folket]

I guess we need to decide how to hook up the iron. I'm not too excited about the dotmap in the north.

So any suggestion on which square to put the settler. I think as it look now we need two border pops which I think is just way to slow.

 

[Shaandore]

I got the save and had a closer look.

Would it not have been better to have farm on N and NW of Paris to get the corn irrigated. It seems like Paris will need some farms as it does not have enough food.

I will post a PPP later today.

The farm will get auto irrigated once CS is in: it works diagonally! (It will get irrigation from city tile)

For now, Paris is at +5 food, which is more than enough for a city at its happy cap. (It will need a farm though somewhere in the future)

The dotmap was made before Iron popped.

 

[Folket]

Yes, I understood that. Even considering that I'm not certain I would put a city on 2 tundras and 1 fish.

Still, we need to agree on spots to put cities. Here is my first suggestion.

 

[ZPV]

I guess we need to decide how to hook up the iron. I'm not too excited about the dotmap in the north.

So any suggestion on which square to put the settler. I think as it look now we need two border pops which I think is just way to slow.

I think that's too slow too - Brennus will capture the barb cities before we can get a look in.

 

[Shaandore]

I think that's too slow too - Brennus will capture the barb cities before we can get a look in.

I agree, the Iron definitely has to be in the BFC of our next city. I actually like Folket's dotmap.