SGOTM 16 - Fifth Element

[Folket]

Rheims is only size 2 at the moment. Building a worker and whipping I do not think is a good idea.

We should be able to whip the forge and grow to size 2 before the gems mine finishes. While if we build a worker at size 2 and whip it we will loose a lot of commerce.

 

[Shaandore]

Sorry, I didn't look back, I thought that it was size 3 and about to grow to size 4. But now I remember that I whipped it a couple turns ago. Do whatever is better I don't have time to look at the save now.

 

[Folket]

If we wait for road to our new city we will delay iron 2 turns. If this question is resolved I can play until we have masonry, while we decide tech path and trades.

 

[Shaandore]

The real question is if settling the new city will let us research currency as planned or not. If it would delay us, then we should wait with settling, otherwise just go ahead. My estimate is -7gpt from that city without trade route. So in two turns that is 14 gpt loss, plus a turn with trade is about 5 gpt loss. 19 gold grand total in the next 3 turns.

It seems like that we can not manage to get currency in 3 turns if you settle now. (It is possible now with switching to ~50% on the last turn)

 

[Folket]

We will get all that research from chopping into research in Paris.

 

[Shaandore]

Yes Binary is just that. Use 100% or 0% all times.
One can not chop a forest into research, those hammers will be banked for next normal build (unit or building).

I see the problem with Paris happy cap now. I still think that market is better. You could work mines with the new citizens to slow down growth to size 10, and increase market build speed. (There is a grass hill and a riverside plains hill improved in the BFC).

You missed my comment on that Let's wait for some input from the rest of the team on this settling issue.

 

[Folket]

Yes, you are right, I did not see that comment.

I guess that means that we should also not build the library in Lyon.

I do not really understand research. Why are we always producing more then what is says. It says 96 but we can get masonry in one turn even while it cost more then 100. Same with Currency.

 

[BSPollux]

One can not chop a forest into research

couldnt hold back

 

[BSPollux]

Oh yeah right what I realy wanted to say was: I should step back from playing alltogether here. Not that I dont want, but I have to admit that I realized I forgot everything I ever knew about the game. Didnt think I'd be that bad when I joined the team. I wouldnt feel good when I'd ruin the round for you, guys. And realy, thats what would happen.

Guess I'll have to wait till the teamplay idea arrives at Civ5.

If you dont mind I'll do what I did all the time and ready the thread drop a few lines here and there. Its intresting but its way out of reach for me, realy.

Hope its early enough to let you know.

 

[Folket]

BSPollux feel exactly the same way, but I see it as a way of forcing myself to play better. When I'm up I research I really consider how I can do everything a little better.

 

[Shaandore]

I'm not a pro player either... You all saw me ruining things (eg Paris is now unhappy because of my carelessness)

So no need to feel bad about anything. I learn a lot just from reading this thread, and will learn some more when we are done and I can read the other team threads

Pollux, I would like to encourage you to play some turns, you really can't ruin anything during say 5 turns of play, but it does help the team. (It is not compulsory to play 20 turns)

If you really don't want to, then don't leave us, there are no wrong questions to ask, so please ask them, even if they are technical (like abbreviations). And we are happy to read every input you have.

 

[BSPollux]

Thing is, as I dont want to reduce the efficiency of the team, I'd be asking for every tiny step, realy everything, up to a point where it would in fact be someone else playing throu me. and thats just useless. And it wouldnt be fun either.

A few years ago I would have been better at this. I realy dont get how much I forgot. I cant even remember basic stuff sometimes. I played thousands of hours of Civ4 and its all gone

Yeah well, I'll just troll this thread

 

[BLubmuz]

(...) Yeah well, I'll just troll this thread

I do not think that if you're a bit rusty you can't play or ruin something. Each one of us is here to have fun first, do his/her best and learn (or re-learn). I also think that any contribution is more appreciated if it comes from an active player.

If you are worried by something you can play shorter TSs, it's always better than not play at all. I for me did not felt comfortable in my TS, because the team is using a different style compared to my usual one. I don't know if this is better, but being part of a team i try to interpret the team's guidelines.

 

[Shaandore]

On topic: any opinions on the settling city now vs. getting currency in 3 turns issue?

 

[ZPV]

On topic: any opinions on the settling city now vs. getting currency in 3 turns issue?

I think the city and building workers while the happiness cap is low rather than some of the research are probably more important than a turn on currency.

 

[Folket]

As far I can tell we have a 25-45 gold margin on getting currency in 3 turns. Perhaps the exact number is 38. Perhaps someone who knows how it works can calculate it?

Changing Orleans to make more food will cost 12 research but will get 12 food from it and it will grow turn after gems.

Optimizing production in Lyon will give us 9 research. Or we can build library which will cost 30 research. (39 from optimized)

Seems to me that settling now should be fine as we should still be able to get currency in 3 turns.

 

[Folket]

ZPV, perhaps you can comment on my PPP as well? I will go to bed now and see what happens when I wake up.

 

[ZPV]

Current PPP
Reims
Bautrupp1 ?! build road on pigs athen help with gems. After that go back and build cut jungle build pasture. Other worker outside Reims build mine on gems and then improve pigs.
Whip Forge when available. (should be next turn. ) Then start library.

Careful - on the gems tile it's already been started to clear the jungle first, and then build the mine after.
On the unit names, BUFFY names units in the language of the player that built them - in this case German.

Paris
Build research. Work cottages. Growing to hit size 9. (Is temple really a waste? 1 turn after gems we will be at happy cap again. ) Workers finish choping and then building cottages in shared squares.

Orleans
Change output to +4F so it will grow in 5 turns (when we get gems). then build a worker and next build swordmen.

I'd build the worker now in Orleans (so the unhappy citizen won't cost us food as long as there's no starvation), and then go into a high growth configuration afterwards.

Lyons
Change from working sheep to work mine. Gives and increase of research by 4. We could get a library here before we get masonry. But I guess that might delay masonry one turn. Monitor output to make sure city grow on turn we get gems.

We're working hard to generate a Great Engineer here. The last thing we need is for the governor to hire a scientist when we grow, and not catch it. I think it's best to avoid a library. Again, Research (which isn't boosted by a library anyway) or a Worker are good here.

New city
work horses, build granary.
Worker build road towards iron.
Worker outside Orleans. Run up and build two turns on deer camp. Then help with iron. (road on iron done turn before border pop.

I don't quite understand this. It's a long road to the iron, and the border pop takes 5 turns.
Would you spend three turns each building a road north of the horses, north of the city, and on the iron? An extra two turns, building roads on the deer, deer-NE, city-N and iron? Or will the new city be on the coast instead, so that it's automatically connected to our trade network? The worker logistics aren't easy - the Orleans worker struggles to be in the right place at the right time so I'm tempted to build the longer road which we'll need anyway to hook up the deer.

Tours
Work pigs and Fish. Shop into granary. Then start library and whip when I'm able to whip down to size 2.

My assumption is that you'll whip the Granary from size 3 to 2 as well.

Empire
Check for resource trade every turn. I'm uncertain on what tech trade to do.
Research currency, then masonry. Then I do not see a consensus. I would tech construction to get those catapults. But it seems like half the team want to go for a later war and get more economic techs.

Resource trades: if we have a spare resource (not necessarily a duplicate; just one we don't need for our cities) then sell it for any GPT the AI can offer. It's unlikely we'll be able to trade for a happiness resource, but I'd be happy to trade a weak health resource for one.
Tech trades:
Stuff that will be available:
Monarchy
Monotheism (after Masonry).

Stuff we have:
Alphabet
Mathematics
Metal Casting

The question is what do we want to hold on to, and what should we trade away?
Firstly, we should wait until we have Currency, so we can pick up extra gold in otherwise lopsided trades.
I think I care most about the monopoly on mathematics, until the Hanging Gardens is nearly built. That's a powerful, gettable wonder. Then we'll want to give or trade it away.
I think I'd be relatively happy to trade away Metal Casting - but not to Brennus.
Alphabet I don't mind so much - and it'll open up Currency for trade - but won't be enough for Monarchy.

The options I see are:
MC + Alphabet/gold <-> Monarchy + Monotheism.
or Alphabet <-> Monotheism and the next turn Currency <-> Monarchy.
I think I prefer the first of those.

Tech path?
Yeah, we don't have an awful lot of consensus. It depends on what we want to do with our empire.
I think our economy is not advanced enough to support the Celtic cities, so we'll want economic techs (Calendar, CoL->CS, Aesth->Literature)

 

[Mastiff_of_Ar]

BSP... If only the best players played, there would hardly be teams. It's how we learn, so ask questions, put together a decent PPP, and enjoy playing. I'll be back in the line-up very soon, because this is the best way to get experience.

If we kill the only other civ that Ramesses knows, then he won't trade techs to us because he'll think they are a monopoly.

If we were to just beat him to a bloody pulp, but left him alive, is that good or bad?

 

[ZPV]

If we were to just beat him to a bloody pulp, but left him alive, is that good or bad?

Well, Brennus has to be able to research, otherwise Rammy's techs are still a monopoly and he won't trade.

Beating him to a pulp is cheaper than mopping up all the stray cities, but we'll also get "We yearn to join our motherland" unhappiness in the captured cities if we don't kill him.