SGOTM 16 - Fifth Element
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Tech trade:
I think, if we beg for Brennus's 30 gold, we'll be able to trade
Metal Casting + 35 gold <-> Monarchy + Monotheism.
If that doesn't work, then the next best option is
Metal Casting <-> Monarchy + Archery + 20 gold
then
Mathematics + some gold <-> Monotheism with Brennus.
Brennus is already researching Mathematics, so we won't speed him up very much.
I think, if we beg for Brennus's 30 gold, we'll be able to trade
Metal Casting + 35 gold <-> Monarchy + Monotheism.
If that doesn't work, then the next best option is
Metal Casting <-> Monarchy + Archery + 20 gold
then
Mathematics + some gold <-> Monotheism with Brennus.
Brennus is already researching Mathematics, so we won't speed him up very much.
Tech path:
Calendar will take 8-10 turns. That's enough time for the workers to find some turns to build the plantations. The only question is, do we expect to be able to trade for it soon after? I'm just not confident that both AIs will go for it quickly, and we have cities that will be able to use the extra happiness.
After that, the options (roughly in my order of preference) are CoL->CS, Aesth->Lit or possibly a military tech.
edit: scratch that. I forgot we'll also get at least +1
from Hereditary Rule, and the wine. Leave Calendar until after CS, with the possibility of trading for it.
After that, the options (roughly in my order of preference) are CoL->CS, Aesth->Lit or possibly a military tech.
edit: scratch that. I forgot we'll also get at least +1
from Hereditary Rule, and the wine. Leave Calendar until after CS, with the possibility of trading for it.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
If we plan to adopt OR and HR, we must wait until a double civics change is possible in the same turn. That will cost us only 1 turn of anarchy.
I agree to set CoL as our next tech to research: CHs are not only to reduce maintenance, but they also give +2 EPs each. When we'll start warring, adding many cities will hurt on maintenance, so it's better have CHs at least in the military production cities before start.
I agree to set CoL as our next tech to research: CHs are not only to reduce maintenance, but they also give +2 EPs each. When we'll start warring, adding many cities will hurt on maintenance, so it's better have CHs at least in the military production cities before start.
Paris,
growing at +4F, building market on 7H, working 6 cottages
There are 7 cottages around Paris, counting the one I finish this turn. So 1 will not be worked. Unless we are ok with building market at 5H, not whip Tours, delay swordmen 1 turn or not make worker in Orleans.
Still will take time to finish market.
Orleans,
Building worker for 4 turns. Then queue 3 swordmen. Will grow in 6 turns.
Projected finish of swordmen 8, 11 and 14 turns.
Whiping on the last turn of the worker seems to make sense here. That will give 27 (34) hammer overflow. Is there a forge bonus on whiping?
Revolt to OR and HR.
Rheims,
Grow in two turns, then whip library. Start barracks. Grow in three turns again. Work pigs.
Lyons,
will put in 37 hammers into Aqueduct will growing in three turn. Then whip aqueduct and start hanging gardens. Is it better to put 29 hammers over two turns and then whip? It seems better, we can have 10 hammers at size 3. But we loose some commerce by not working the hamlet.
Tours,
I prefer to work cottage for 2 turns then whip granary and start forge for happiness. We loose 2F but gain 2H, 2C and two turns on the cottage.
Marseilles,
Work the horse until deer is improved, then change. Whip granary as soon as possible. Then start on forge.
Worker 1, worker 5
Build road and mine iron. 5 turns.
Improve deer.
split to two forests and chop into Lyon
worker 2, worker 4,
build cottages between Tours and Paris.
Bautrupp 1, worker 3,
Cut down jungle then improve pigs.
Then build a cottage on grassland?
Worker 6
Build cottage on FP 2S of lyon, then move west to cut forest into hanging gardens.
Worker 7
Build plains mine for Orleans?
Empire,
binary research Code of Laws, Civil Service.
Beg 30 gold from Brennus. if succesful trade Metal Casting + 35 gold <-> Monarchy + Monotheism.
If not prefer Alpha+Currency <-> Monotheism+Monarchy+Archery+20gold trade to trading with Brennus.
Switch espionage to 100% Ramesses?
growing at +4F, building market on 7H, working 6 cottages
There are 7 cottages around Paris, counting the one I finish this turn. So 1 will not be worked. Unless we are ok with building market at 5H, not whip Tours, delay swordmen 1 turn or not make worker in Orleans.
Still will take time to finish market.
Orleans,
Building worker for 4 turns. Then queue 3 swordmen. Will grow in 6 turns.
Projected finish of swordmen 8, 11 and 14 turns.
Whiping on the last turn of the worker seems to make sense here. That will give 27 (34) hammer overflow. Is there a forge bonus on whiping?
Revolt to OR and HR.
Rheims,
Grow in two turns, then whip library. Start barracks. Grow in three turns again. Work pigs.
Lyons,
will put in 37 hammers into Aqueduct will growing in three turn. Then whip aqueduct and start hanging gardens. Is it better to put 29 hammers over two turns and then whip? It seems better, we can have 10 hammers at size 3. But we loose some commerce by not working the hamlet.
Tours,
I prefer to work cottage for 2 turns then whip granary and start forge for happiness. We loose 2F but gain 2H, 2C and two turns on the cottage.
Marseilles,
Work the horse until deer is improved, then change. Whip granary as soon as possible. Then start on forge.
Worker 1, worker 5
Build road and mine iron. 5 turns.
Improve deer.
split to two forests and chop into Lyon
worker 2, worker 4,
build cottages between Tours and Paris.
Bautrupp 1, worker 3,
Cut down jungle then improve pigs.
Then build a cottage on grassland?
Worker 6
Build cottage on FP 2S of lyon, then move west to cut forest into hanging gardens.
Worker 7
Build plains mine for Orleans?
Empire,
binary research Code of Laws, Civil Service.
Beg 30 gold from Brennus. if succesful trade Metal Casting + 35 gold <-> Monarchy + Monotheism.
If not prefer Alpha+Currency <-> Monotheism+Monarchy+Archery+20gold trade to trading with Brennus.
Switch espionage to 100% Ramesses?
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
I'd prefere to not give MC to Brennus, because it makes Machinery too close, thus i like best the Alpha+Currency trade.
About EPs, yes i think it's better switch to Egypt, at least to see the research.
Whips are affected by production modifiers.
So with a forge they're 37.5h per pop..
With a forge and OrgRel they're 45h per pop for buildings.
So have another go at working out the whip stuff.
@Blubmuz: we're not talking about giving MC to Brennus - both trade options are with Ramesses since he's the only one with Monarchy.
The only thing I suggested trading to Brennus is Mathematics since he's researched it down to a few turns left anyway, and it'll speed up his possible learning of Calendar.
So with a forge they're 37.5h per pop..
With a forge and OrgRel they're 45h per pop for buildings.
So have another go at working out the whip stuff.
@Blubmuz: we're not talking about giving MC to Brennus - both trade options are with Ramesses since he's the only one with Monarchy.
The only thing I suggested trading to Brennus is Mathematics since he's researched it down to a few turns left anyway, and it'll speed up his possible learning of Calendar.
Thanks, I will have an other go at calculating whips and remember that we have an revolution as well.
I can whip on Lyon while having 24 hammers into Aqueduct and then whip it. Change to OR after the whip for 59 hammer overflow. If I understand things correctly that would be 98 hammers into the hanging gardens. Adding two chops would give us 248 hammers. We could then slow build it for 3 turns.
Chops also work with modifiers right?
I can whip on Lyon while having 24 hammers into Aqueduct and then whip it. Change to OR after the whip for 59 hammer overflow. If I understand things correctly that would be 98 hammers into the hanging gardens. Adding two chops would give us 248 hammers. We could then slow build it for 3 turns.
Chops also work with modifiers right?
Shaandore
another mathematician
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2010
- Messages
- 868
Yes, chops are multiplied too. What I don't really know is if a revolt to OrgRel changes the overflow amount or not.
No. In Lyons, put up to 9 hammers into the Aqueduct, and then whip it after the switch to OR.
Whips commit hammers immediately at the current multiplier. You won't increase them by revolting after whipping.
We don't get multipliers twice on overflow. The extra ~45h is reduced to 30, and then remultiplied by the new build's multiplier for 45 again.
edit: yes, as noted below, I haven't included the 50% for industrious.
Yes, chops get production multipliers - applied at the end of the turn.
Well, I calculated 59 hammer overflow would be.
59/1.5 = 39
39*2.5 = 98 (industrious, OR and forge)
That is correct is it not? If you ignore the fact that whips apply production imminently which makes it unlikely that I will get 59 hammers overflow.
59/1.5 = 39
39*2.5 = 98 (industrious, OR and forge)
That is correct is it not? If you ignore the fact that whips apply production imminently which makes it unlikely that I will get 59 hammers overflow.
well, you probably won't get 59 overflow, but if you did, then it would be (as you've noted)
59/1.5 = 39
39 * 2 = 78.
Still, I will be able to get many hammers into Lyon fast. Perhaps it is better if worker 1 and worker 5 chops forests before improving deer?
Perhaps I should not let Paris grow since it will soon have extra pop from Hanging gardens.
Perhaps I should not let Paris grow since it will soon have extra pop from Hanging gardens.
Tell me when I have green light to play.
Seems like the majority does not want to trade with Brennus. Is Brennus somewhat more likely to tech Calendar then Ramesses?
How does this tech monopoly thing work? I can see Ramesses willing to trade techs that Brennus does not have.
Seems like the majority does not want to trade with Brennus. Is Brennus somewhat more likely to tech Calendar then Ramesses?
How does this tech monopoly thing work? I can see Ramesses willing to trade techs that Brennus does not have.
The options for Lyons are:
whip for 3 pop with 9 or fewer hammers committed.
whip for 2 pop with 54 or fewer hammers committed.
I don't know where you pulled 37 from, but we should take full advantage of Org Rel. Revolting after whip overflow is not beneficial, because we have to invest more hammers into the aqueduct beforehand, negating any bonus to the overflow.
Yes, let Paris grow. We will have Hereditary Rule happiness soon. However, I think you should whip the market for 2 pop when you can, because the grassland and mine are not doing anything else.
Orleans:
There's got to be a faster way to produce three units.
Something like:
on the last turn of the worker, whip the worker, then switch to a swordsman and invest 2 hammers or fewer. Yes, that means switching all the citizens to flood plains.
Then whip the swordsman for 2 pop, and complete, on the next following three turns, swordsman2, worker, swordsman3.
edit: After trading, you should revolt to go to the civics menu and revolt to Hereditary Rule and Organised Religion.
Not wanting to trade Metal Casting to Brennus is because we will go to war with him eventually and don't want to speed his path to Engineering.
Monopoly techs:
Generally, the only times an AI will trade you a monopoly tech are when they are Friendly, when they are Mansa Musa, or when the tech does not let you build anything in your cities.
Both AIs will have to tech Calendar for us to be able to trade it.
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