SGOTM 16 - Misfit Gypsy Nuts

McArine · Dec 15, 2012

Great job Sleepless.

I see the RNG was also mean to you at one time...

The war looks good, I think we have enough units to finish Ramesses off, except maybe more catapults.
I don't see any reason our first cities building units any more, I'd switch them to wealth or caravels.

Humbaba, it looks like he's very well protected, and is going to be a real tough nut. As I can see there's no direct water route to him, but more exploring will reveal that. But as we're planning to go deep into the tech tree, I think we should just wait till we have the units that can beat him swiftly.

Espionage, we have enough points to try to steal a tech from Ramesses, so I think we should get a spy ready to grab anything he wont give us for peace.

Our economy is definitely looking better. If we want the FP in Thebes, I think we should get it started asap. I think we still need more markets. Example Durocortorum, could be making 6 more golds per turn.

Tech, are we beelining liberalism? Should we go for Divine Right, to build Versailles and The Spiral Minaret, both will help with our tech pace. But so too will education and universities...

Conquistador 63 · Dec 15, 2012

What is our plan regarding religions? I thought we were going Confu because of the AP, but see we still build buddhist missionaries.

Sleepless · Dec 15, 2012

Thoughts on the turnset.

Civics. Revolted to Rep on turn 1. I waited for a while to revolt to bureaucracy. If we are going for a diplo victory we do need someone to vote for us and ham is usually a good friend. Plus he wouldn't trade techs with us as worse enemy (not that we have anything on him). I've also opened borders but he won't get any benefit as he is in Merc. Also trading 2 resources for 1 gold from him. best we can do atm as he wanted horses in trade.

Great People. Bibracte is still set for the next GP but Orleans overtook it for a while so need to be careful of that. Once we have the GP can run lots of rep specs.

Tech Path. I finished compass - optics - and nearly finished paper. Best I think is to put a couple of turns in Edu and save the rest for a bulb. Plus we need philo for Lib. So possibly philo - edu - lib.

Note Ham founded Judaism so likelihood is a happy Hindu camp somewhere. Hopefully the Caravel going West will meet them soon. Will at least let us know whether we have a chance at Lib.

Military... Lost alot of cats. Though a few replacements on the way. Didn't help Heliopolis was on a hill either!! Did try attacking with the sword at Memphis first. Of course the defender was an x bow. Didn't think to use an xbow until Heliopolis then read Ronnie1s post afterwards..

At least we still have alot of strongly promoted units.

I have been moving units over using the galley. By loading and unloading in the city the same turn then loading another 2 units on to the galley can actually move 4 in one turn.

Peace with Ram. tried to get DR in most deals but he would rather give us a city. Thought we might be able to trade DR with Ham so would take another couple of cities then see what he gives.

Sleepless · Dec 15, 2012

McArine said:
Great job Sleepless.

I see the RNG was also mean to you at one time...

The war looks good, I think we have enough units to finish Ramesses off, except maybe more catapults.
I don't see any reason our first cities building units any more, I'd switch them to wealth or caravels.

Humbaba, it looks like he's very well protected, and is going to be a real tough nut. As I can see there's no direct water route to him, but more exploring will reveal that. But as we're planning to go deep into the tech tree, I think we should just wait till we have the units that can beat him swiftly.

Espionage, we have enough points to try to steal a tech from Ramesses, so I think we should get a spy ready to grab anything he wont give us for peace.

Our economy is definitely looking better. If we want the FP in Thebes, I think we should get it started asap. I think we still need more markets. Example Durocortorum, could be making 6 more golds per turn.

Tech, are we beelining liberalism? Should we go for Divine Right, to build Versailles and The Spiral Minaret, both will help with our tech pace. But so too will education and universities...

More exploring for Humbaba but will be able to weaken him with airstrikes first. Must be a way around somewhere as well but no hurry there.

Units we are No1 in troops again. We just have to have a couple of cities set to building units to keep ourselves strong and limited chance of being attacked from elsewhere. Other than that wealth def where no other better buildings are available.

Sure I started a spy somewhere in Brennus's lands as we should be able to steal something.

Agree with FP in Thebes. Started shipping a couple of workers to start improvments around Thebes/memphis area. Thebes also has a few forests to be chopped.

Irrigation. Mostly irrigated all our corn etc though memphis rice needs irrigating.

Sleepless · Dec 15, 2012

Conquistador 63 said:
What is our plan regarding religions? I thought we were going Confu because of the AP, but see we still build buddhist missionaries.

Without the Golden Age to change civics seemed best to keep the civic changes to a minimum. hence 1 turn rep. 1 turn to bureau for reasons mentioned. Do want to change to Conf but atm no need to use 1 turn of anarchy hence spreading Bud for the OR benefit plus of course we do have the shrine. So been spreading both.

Ronnie1 · Dec 15, 2012

Good progress Sleepless.

Thebes really needs a Granary as its next build.

Inventory List, widely spread of course
23 Cats
13 Maces
9 XBows
7 Swords
2 HA's
2 Axes

56 total units

Ramesses still has 6 cities, he captured Vandal during that set, so probably in the neighborhood of 30 units defending.

We may have enough units already, not sure.

HA's with Flanking II make great cheap first strike units. They are IMMUNE to First Strikes and have a 50% chance to withdraw no matter how strong the defender. Paris can build those now, or we could get a Stable up somewhere and dedicate it to Mounted units.

Do we think we will be warring after Ramesses at all?

I would upgrade the Trireme next to Memphis. After it kills Ramesses' Trireme it can explore SW.

We have 6 cities not Buddhist and 4 not Confucius. The Confucius Shrine is bringing in 8 more gold than the Buddhist one. (24-16)

What is the minimum we would want for peace? We will also take a negative diplo hit with Hammy when we re-declare on Ramesses if we go that way.

Sleepless · Dec 16, 2012

Who's up???

If C63 can't take the save atm think Ronnie1 should take it now.

No probs moving the gran up in Thebes then FP which we can mostly chop. Would try and get 1 of the Bud missionaries there first though.

Techs for peace from Ram. I'd take his next 2 cities and re-evaluate. We might have met the other AI by then and if no-one has DR that would be the one to try and get. Plus whatever else.

Could do with a couple of spies as we should be able to steal as well.

Hammy is pleased with Ram atm but with the difference in religion might go down to cautious.

War?? I still wouldn't discount Dom as a victory type to go along with the other one. We will have to keep our military strong regardless as we will have alot of borders to protect.

More cities. If we want Sids as a corp an idea to start settling the fish sites available.

Conquistador 63 · Dec 16, 2012

I got the save. Can I trade maps with Hammy before even posting a PPP? It would cost us 30g. Btw, OB would only help him atm, as we don't know Astro, and he does.

Sleepless · Dec 16, 2012

Conquistador 63 said:
I got the save. Can I trade maps with Hammy before even posting a PPP? It would cost us 30g. Btw, OB would only help him atm, as we don't know Astro, and he does.

Did think about the map trade but do we want to try to circumnavigate before he does? We do have 2 caravels heading East and West though not to worried either way.

Be nice to see the land if you go for it though. So perhaps more important

I did mention about the OB as he is in merc he gets no benefit from OB with us. Note I am trading 2 resources for 1 of his. This can be changed in a few turns if he will go for it.

Conquistador 63 · Dec 16, 2012

^I believe the human player gets the benefit of circumnavigating in a mutual map trade, as we end our turn 1st (just as finishing a WW in the same turn as an AI).

So I did the trade.

Our remaining rivals are...

Spoiler :

Here's the lay of the land...

Spoiler :

PPP.
Tech Philo/Edu/Lib. It should take a long time for us to get a GS so no use waiting for a bulb IMO. Pessimistic about being 1st to Lib.

Unit moves
Haven't looked too close at it, but I suppose keep hammering Ramesses. Is this game no vassals?

Builds.
Continue with some troops where no other useful buildings available.
Build 1 Christian and 1 Islamic monastery, we might need to spread those religions for Cathedrals later.

Not keen of building settlers ATM. Better to take cities already there.
Hammy is the smaller overseas AI, not sure if that means the most or least advanced...

We should send 4 confu missionaries overseas ASAP, in hindsight we should have already planned for that.

Sleepless · Dec 16, 2012

Well doesn't seem as though our remaining rivals are the greatest researchers. All protective as well.

One thing to remember as well we can always go into non state religion. Open up a lot more tech options and go back into conf in enough time to get the AP resolution/victory.

GP's think we can get the GP from Bibracte. Another temple due to finish there shortly so can starve it a bit as well then I think Orleans won't be to far behind for the next GP.

When we have enough mil can start building wealth in some cities as well.

Ronnie1 · Dec 16, 2012

Astro would be a huge benefit for our economy.

Not keen of building settlers ATM. Better to take cities already there.

I agree!

Hammy is the smaller overseas AI, not sure if that means the most or least advanced...

Let us hope most advanced, probably accurate given his Caravel.

We should send 4 confu missionaries overseas ASAP, in hindsight we should have already planned for that.

Definitely poor planning. AP religion finesse is definitely not my thing.

Conquistador 63 · Dec 16, 2012

^Are you suggesting Astro next?

Ronnie1 · Dec 16, 2012

Conquistador 63 said:
^Are you suggesting Astro next?

I don't think we can afford to do that with Lib still an option. If we find that Lib is not really available, I would consider it after Edu.

Sleepless · Dec 17, 2012

Hopefully we are now at the point where our tech rate will rocket. Well it can't plummet

.

Once we meet the other AI we should get a good discount on a lot of techs as well. Civic changes again once we have philosophy pacifism wouldn't be a bad one to run.

Conquistador 63 · Dec 17, 2012

Ok, I'll try my best to play tonight (8h from this post).

How many turns am I supposed to play?

Some relevant info and assorted thoughts about our rivals. Including both Chinese as we still don't know exactly who he is.

Leader/FavCivic/base peace weight/techknown%/notechtrade#/diffrelchange
Hammu/Bureau/8/40%/10/-1
Mao/SP/1/50%/5/0
Qin/Bureau/2/30%/5/-1
Saladin/Theo/4/40%/5/-2
Sitting Bull/Environm/8/80%/5/0

Hammy runs judaism, and I would guess Sal and SB are hindu, Chinese is running Tao (founder). Judging from the map, it doesn't look like that there have been wars overseas. have we been notified of GG's being born elsewhere?

With us in a different religion, it might be hard to keep OB. We don't have the WW that benefits from a state religion (UoS and SM), and the AP Confu give us the hammers regardless. I agree Pacifism is a strong civic, but I wonder if revolting to free religion when we learn Lib would be better diplo-wise?

On victory conditions, I still think we can befriend enough AIs to get their votes for the AP. Given the 2 legendary cities condition, do you still think Domination would be faster than Culture? I don't think so.

Humbaba is a non-issue, IMO. With the Future tech requirement, we should be able to weaken him with a stealth bomber and kill him with a paratrooper.

Sleepless · Dec 17, 2012

Did mention about running Free Religion as well. Just need to be in Conf for the AP vote. Golden Ages make that reasonable easy to do.

I'd play approx 10 turns or so. With the micro needed in each city does take a bit of time. And of course you have a few cities to take as well.

Bibracte has another temple just finishing so you can add another priest to help speed up the prophet and shrine our 3rd city.

I'd try and see whether we can get DR in the peace deal as an option for some tech trades if the other AI don't have it.

McArine · Dec 17, 2012

Good luck C63 :-)

Conquistador 63 · Dec 17, 2012

Played a few turns. Could continue tomorrow or pass it over.

Got Philo for Theo+Paper (SB).
Saladin was 1st to Lib.
Got Aesth for a map + gold from Qin.
Took a couple cities from Ram then peace for DR + Lit. Rammy is down to 4 cities.
Trade DR away for Engineering, Drama, Feudalism. Should be able to get Guilds next turn.

Autolog

Spoiler :

Conquistador 63 · Dec 17, 2012

Autolog part #2

Spoiler :

Edu should be in in 2t. Might be able to trade for Astro.

SGOTM 16 - Misfit Gypsy Nuts

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