SGOTM 16 - Xteam

[leif erikson]

Sorry to hear that Fred, we will miss you.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Got in last night, leaving again in 15 minutes. Good luck. Be back on the 9th.

Sorry Fred's leaving us.

 

[Htadus]

My life is completely disorganized at the moment with a sick wife and international travel coming up. I'll keep you posted about my changing availability or not, but I don't see it likely that I'll be available this week.

Hope your wife get better soon MP, we will be here for you to return.

Thought I'd better retire officially before I'm up again. I have notified AlanH. Good luck with the rest of the game .

I am sorry to hear this Fred, We may not agree with certain things but a you are a valuable partner in this team and kept me (at least) on my toes. I hope, if this decision is based on our past disagreements and not some thing more valuable in RL, that you reconsider your decision. If it is for RL reason I hope it get better.

For what it's worth, since I may have caused you discomfort through dialogue/discussions, I am sorry. Nothing personal intended. Even if you do not stay with xteam, I hope you accept my apology. Sincerely.

S.

 

[zamint3]

If someone has some time, perhaps they can take a set? Please post if you are available.

Looks like that might be me.

We should stop when Alpha comes in (5 turns) and discuss research and trades.

I'll do some testing and post a PPP later today.

@ Undecided: Testmap is good, I just did one quick test until T 130 without Brennus attacking.

 

[leif erikson]

Thank you z3, it is yours.

 

[zamint3]

Looks like 6 turns to Alphabet. Should consider whipping Spy in Wheat to cut travel time to Brennus' capital.

It's only 5 turns until Alpha, the real save has a few more beakers into Alpha than the test save.
As Htadus says the steal should be done in Tolosa. Should we build more than one spy?
In the test save we have a 82% chance of success.

Are we planning to pay a hostile visit to the Barb City on the island to the west? How many units do we need to support this? It should not, however, take priority over war with Brennus, imho.

We definitely want that city.
It's a good city site and it's overseas. When we declare on Brennus we'll loose 7 trade routes and that one city will make up for this even with the increase in maintenance. (We might even time this with researching Currency)
I would use 3 cats (city raider promoted) and 3 chariots (unpromoted) and we have plenty of time before we are ready for Brennus.
With some luck we can have the 3 barb cities and some veteran cats before we attack Brennus.

Also we can get a discount if we are in Buddhism at the time. I suppose we are waiting for alpha before switching to do some trades with Egypt.

I think we only get a discount if we have the holy city!
So yes, I would wait for Alpha.

 

[zamint3]

Here's my suggestions:

Paris: Cat->Temple (T115 with chops)->Cat
Wheat: Cat->Cat ->Spy->Colosseum
Sheep: Colosseum->Chariot (a few turns until growth)->Worker
Wine: Forge-> Colosseum-> Barracks-> Cat
Fish: Worker-> Forge->Colosseum->Library

Once we start taking the barb cities we’ll need a lot of worker turns!

PPP:

Spoiler :

T110 125bc
Research 100%, Alpha in 5 turns
2-pop whip Forge in Wine

T111 100bc
Wine completes Forge, start Colosseum
Worker 5 starts mine S of Wine
Worker 1 starts chopping forest S of Paris
Worker 4 chops forest into Cat in Wheat
Warriors explore a bit south

T112 75bc
Wheat completes cat and starts another Cat
Sheep completes Colosseum and starts Chariot (one turn then worker)
Worker 3 chops forest N into Paris
Worker 4 moves 1S of Sheep, will road along the river SE
Worker 2 chops forest S into Wine

T113 50bc
Paris completes cat and starts Temple (6 turns)
Wine completes Colosseum and starts Barracks
Fish City trained a worker and starts Forge
Worker 6 completes road from Fish to Paris
Worker 3 starts cottage NE of Paris
Worker 4 starts road S of Sheep
Worker 2 moves onto forest S of Wine
Worker 1 chops forest into Paris (Temple in 2 turns, growth in 3, working silk instead of ph mine)

T114 25bc
Worker 1 moves north to road
Worker 2 starts chopping S of Wine
Research down to 50%

T115 1AD
Research Alpha, start Currency
Paris completes Temple and starts Cat
Wheat completes Cat and starts Spy
Sheep grows unhappy and starts Worker

Aim to take the western barb city around T119 if Brennus does not make a move before that.


Test save T115:
View attachment Louis AD-0001 T115 test z3.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[Htadus]

I like what I see. Should we have a unit by east barb city for situational intel?

 

[leif erikson]

Agree with Htadus. Looks good.

Should we station a unit, if we can spare one, near both barb cities in case an opportunity to poach one from Brennus presents itself?

In the city builds, do we need a second Galley to ferry troops to the Barb Island City?

Can we afford to build more than one spy? If we do, do we have enough Spy points to make a second attempt? We have to have IW, no question about it.

 

[Htadus]

Can we afford to build more than one spy? If we do, do we have enough Spy points to make a second attempt? We have to have IW, no question about it.

Are you referring to second attempt as in after a failed mission? If that is the case no points are used since the mission failed. So all the points remain intact. But you have a good point. I have made the mistake in the past of relying on single spy for a crucial theft and failing. I too think a second spy is a priority. Good catch leif.

 

[Undecided]

Looks good Z.

Glad you can work with the test game. I'd like to get a better test game up this week, but we'll see if that's possible.

Agree with Leif, we need that second spy, we could always use him to scout around in brennus territory if we get the tech first try. Have experienced the outcome htadus mentioned too and it's painful.

Unfortunate fred had to retire, hopefully everybody gets a bit more time from RL soon and gets everything sorted out.

 

[zamint3]

I too think a second spy is a priority.

Agree with Leif, we need that second spy.

No one for gambling?

OK - Wine will whip another Spy on the same turn as Wheat.

Just found out that having 2 spies in the target city at the same time reduces the rate of success, in our case from 82% to 63%, so 2nd spy will have to wait outside the city and then try the steal 3-4 turns later when the stationary bonus is high enough.

 

[leif erikson]

Can't remember, but does the percentage increase if the Spy is in the capital? If one Spy has to wait for several turns, would it be beneficial to move the other to another city?

Gambling...
Can't afford it.

 

[Undecided]

Some might think we're still gambling with 2 spies though.

If somebody is good at math, we could calculate the exact percentages and determine the "best" number of spies and how much risk we want to take and if it's better to move them all at once or one at a time like z3 suggested.

One spy has ~80% successrate, 2 spies and more ~60% it looks like.

The chance of detection is 2.75%/turn/spy.

We need 3-4 turns to steal IW.

 

[zamint3]

I'll play until Alpha in about 8 hours if nothing comes up.

 

[leif erikson]

Good Luck. Hope we get to poach one of those gem cities...

 

[Mad Professor]

I'll play until Alpha in about 8 hours if nothing comes up.

Go for it, and good luck!

 

[zamint3]

Played until Alpha according to plan, actual game behaves very much like the test save (lots of missionaries and the barbs building a worker)

Ramesses will trade Monarchy

Pics:

Spoiler :

Best trade option I think:

Land NW:

Land S:

Barb city soon to be ours, there's a barb worker SW I think:

Tolosa, Brennus may have sent a few chariots north:

Turnlog:

Spoiler :

T110 125bc
Research 100% Alpha in 5 turns
2-pop whip Forge in Wine
Worker 1 moves onto forest S of Paris
One chariot moves onto ph to look into western barb city, 2 archers defending

IBT
Brennus founded a city S of gems east
Another Buddhist missionary on his way north

T111 100bc
Wine completes forge, starts Colosseum
Worker 5 starts mine S of Wine
Worker 1 starts chopping forest S of Paris
Worker 4 chops forest into cat in Wheat
Warriors explore a bit south
Galley discover another barb city

IBT
Barbs built a worker in the western city

T112 75bc
Wheat completes cat and starts another cat (Colosseum?)
Sheep completes Colosseum and starts chariot (one turn then worker)
Worker 3 chops forest N into Paris
Worker 4 moves 1S of Sheep, will road along the river SE
Worker 2 chops forest S into Wine

IBT
Another missionary coming from the south
Great Prophet born somewhere, hopefully it was Brennus

T113 50bc
Paris completes cat and starts Temple (6 turns)
Wine completes Colosseum and starts Barracks
Fish City trained a worker and starts forge
Sheep switch to Worker
Worker 6 completes road from Fish to Paris
Worker 3 starts cottage NE of Paris
Worker 4 starts road S of Sheep
Worker 2 moves onto forest S of Wine
Worker 1 chops forest into Paris (Temple in 3 turns, growth in 3, working silk instead of mine)

IBT
Buddhism has spread in Wine City

T114 25bc
Worker 1 moves north to road
Worker 2 starts chopping S of Wine
Worker 6 moves onto ph N of Paris
Research down to 20%

IBT
Research Alpha, start Currency
Ramesses has no worst enemy
Ramesses adopts OR
Temple of Solomon (Judaism) has been built far away, hmm well it's a shrine
Forest has grown 2N of Paris

T115 1AD
Wheat completes cat and starts spy
Wine switch to spy

Turn session log:

Spoiler :

Here is your Session Turn Log from 125 BC to 1 AD:


Turn 112, 75 BC: Mohammed Shah (Great Prophet) has been born in a far away land!

Turn 113, 50 BC: Wheat City can hurry Catapult for 1⇴ with 21ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 11 turns.
Turn 113, 50 BC: Sheep City has grown to size 4.
Turn 113, 50 BC: Sheep City can hurry Chariot for 1⇴ with 15ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 20 turns.
Turn 113, 50 BC: Wine City has become happy.
Turn 113, 50 BC: Clearing a Forest has created 24 ℤ for Paris.
Turn 113, 50 BC: Wine City will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
Turn 113, 50 BC: Buddhism has spread in Wine City.
Turn 113, 50 BC: Brennus has founded Bagacum in a distant land.

Turn 114, 25 BC: Paris can hurry Buddhist Temple for 1⇴ with 28ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 114, 25 BC: Wheat City has become happy.
Turn 114, 25 BC: Sheep City can hurry Worker for 2⇴ with 28ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 19 turns.
Turn 114, 25 BC: Wine City has grown to size 5.
Turn 114, 25 BC: Wine City has become unhappy.
Turn 114, 25 BC: Wine City can hurry Barracks for 1⇴ with 5ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 18 turns.
Turn 114, 25 BC: Fish City will grow to size 3 on the next turn.
Turn 114, 25 BC: You have discovered Alphabet!
Turn 114, 25 BC: Ramesses II adopts Organized Religion!
Turn 114, 25 BC: The Temple of Solomon has been built in a far away land!
Turn 114, 25 BC: A Forest has grown near Paris!

Turn 115, 1 AD: Paris will become unhappy on the next turn.
Turn 115, 1 AD: Fish City has grown to size 3.
Turn 115, 1 AD: Fish City will become unhappy on the next turn.
Turn 115, 1 AD: Ramesses II has no worst enemy.
Turn 115, 1 AD: Ramesses II will trade Hunting, Iron Working, Monarchy, Polytheism
Turn 115, 1 AD: Brennus will trade Hunting, Iron Working, Polytheism

Auto log:

Spoiler :

Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 110/500 (125 BC) [28-Nov-2012 16:12:14]
100% Research: 77 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -29 per turn, 144 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Wine City
Wine City finishes: Forge

Turn 111/500 (100 BC) [28-Nov-2012 16:12:19]
Wine City begins: Colosseum (40 turns)
100% Research: 77 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -29 per turn, 115 in the bank

After End Turn:
Wheat City finishes: Catapult
Sheep City finishes: Colosseum
Wine City grows to size 4
A Hamlet was built near Wheat City

Turn 112/500 (75 BC) [28-Nov-2012 16:20:00]
Wheat City begins: Catapult (8 turns)
Sheep City begins: Chariot (5 turns)
100% Research: 80 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -31 per turn, 86 in the bank

After End Turn:
Paris finishes: Catapult
Sheep City grows to size 4
Wine City finishes: Colosseum
Fish City finishes: Worker

Turn 113/500 (50 BC) [28-Nov-2012 16:30:59]
Paris begins: Buddhist Temple (10 turns)
Wine City begins: Barracks (17 turns)
Fish City begins: Forge (60 turns)
Sheep City begins: Worker (4 turns)
100% Research: 82 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -32 per turn, 55 in the bank

After End Turn:
Whip anger has decreased in Sheep City
Wine City grows to size 5

Other Player Actions:
Buddhism has spread: Wine City

Turn 114/500 (25 BC) [28-Nov-2012 16:40:26]
A Mine was built near Wine City
20% Research: 16 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
80% Gold: 15 per turn, 23 in the bank

After End Turn:
Whip anger has decreased in Wheat City
Tech research finished: Alphabet
A Town was built near Paris
Wheat City finishes: Catapult
Fish City grows to size 3

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Ramesses II (Egypt) towards Brennus (Celtia), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Civics Change: Ramesses II(Egypt) from 'Paganism' to 'Organized Religion'

Turn 115/500 (0 AD) [28-Nov-2012 16:52:42]
Research begun: Currency (27 Turns)
Wheat City begins: Spy (4 turns)
Wine City begins: Spy (7 turns)

Save uploaded at the central:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/download.php?file=Xteam_SG016_AD0001_01.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[leif erikson]

Save looks good.

The same trade could be made with Egypt by giving MC and Meditation?
Brennus does not have Construction, so no Cats, and could obtain it from Ramesses if we trade Alpha.

Brennus' power graph looks interesting as it is declining. Did he lose some units trying to take the Barb cities?

Also, Brennus will declare on Ramesses but we have to give Construction. Is it worth it to create a back stab situation?

 

[Undecided]

Nice work z3

Will look at the save later.

@leif
As long as they are worst enemies they won't trade anything with eachother.