SGOTM 17 - Fifth Element

Folket · May 22, 2013

We only have use for GS until we have physics. After that GM or GEs are helpful while GS does nothing.

As for wars. Just build units and swarm our enemies. Kill them all. Raze everything that does not have immense production and low pop.

Shaandore · May 22, 2013

There is one more thing, I can't stress it enough. SP is superior to Merc. We need to switch NOW. The missing specs in those few cities where we want GP can be compensated with some starving. I.e. Florence could starve nicely, in the first two turns it wouldn't lose specs, only angry citizens. (It can get us a GP in 6 or worst case 7 turns if we switch to SP now and start maximum starving)

Trades:

Sell Philo to Toku for his 230 gold. Trade Philo with Churchill for Theo+70 gold. Trade Economics+160 gold with Peter for Communism. This way we can use the Gspy for stealing Corporation.

Wars:

We don't have enough cannons to attack Sury now. We won't have enough in place before this GA ends (shipping is slow). Build some in Prague, they get CR2 from the start, and Prague can build them pretty fast.

GPeople:

Mainz should be last because it catches up fast. I'd prefer this order: Florence->Mainz(fire our next golden age)->Ulm.

Finally, workshops are getting around nicely, don't stop building them! :hammer:

BLubmuz · May 22, 2013

Folket said:
We only have use for GS until we have physics. After that GM or GEs are helpful while GS does nothing.
Sure. the problem is that GS are pretty easy to generate in Caste, as GM, but GEs are just a stroke of luck
As for wars. Just build units and swarm our enemies. Kill them all. Raze everything that does not have immense production and low pop.

We already agreed on a raze/keep plan. After it Sury planted a city, which i think it's worth keep. It's size 5 now, with good food and production. It can be of help because it's on the right side of the map and it will cause almost no problems for Dom because it has some overlap with Angkor and the coastal city.

BLubmuz · May 22, 2013

Shaandore said:
(...)

Trades:

Sell Philo to Toku for his 230 gold. Trade Philo with Churchill for Theo+70 gold. Trade Economics+160 gold with Peter for Communism. This way we can use the Gspy for stealing Corporation.

Wars:

We don't have enough cannons to attack Sury now. We won't have enough in place before this GA ends (shipping is slow). Build some in Prague, they get CR2 from the start, and Prague can build them pretty fast.

GPeople:

Mainz should be last because it catches up fast. I'd prefer this order: Florence->Mainz(fire our next golden age)->Ulm.

Finally, workshops are getting around nicely, don't stop building them!

As usual you missed some post

Me and Folket were discussing some change to the plan: push a GS from Mainz and launch an almost immediate GAge. Later we'll have less benefits. And it will be the best use for the GSpy.

I know i need more units, mainly cannons for Sury: in fact i've said that i plan to attack him in no less than 4-5 turns. But even if i wait 7 turns this is a change in our initial plan, which was to make peace with Qin to extort some tech and used the 10 turns to finish Sury. Too long, seen the turns needed for Beijing and there's the risk he plants new cities. Better finish both quickly.

Shaandore · May 22, 2013

BLubmuz said:
As usual you missed some post
Me and Folket were discussing some change to the plan: push a GS from Mainz and launch an almost immediate GAge. Later we'll have less benefits. And it will be the best use for the GSpy.

I know i need more units, mainly cannons for Sury: in fact i've said that i plan to attack him in no less than 4-5 turns. But even if i wait 7 turns this is a change in our initial plan, which was to make peace with Qin to extort some tech and used the 10 turns to finish Sury. Too long, seen the turns needed for Beijing and there's the risk he plants new cities. Better finish both quickly.

Actually, I did see your GP posts. And I don't like them, because Mainz has the best multipliers, therefore it should be last. The other cities will struggle more as the GP costs go up, especially after the GA ends. We can have a GArtist from Florence before this GA ends, and this GS from Mainz immediately after. This should be much faster than the other way around, because with the GA gone, Florenece or Ulm will have no multipliers. So if we want to have the least turns between the two GAs, then this is the best way to do it.

If having the next GA soon after is not a priority, then we can go as you suggested.

You didn't say anything about trades and SP though, and they are kind of important (more important than GP plans IMO).

BLubmuz · May 22, 2013

Shaandore said:
If having the next GA soon after is not a priority, then we can go as you suggested.

You didn't say anything about trades and SP though, and they are kind of important (more important than GP plans IMO).

Wrong! Post #1240, previous page.

I know well that Mainz has the best multipliers and that was the reason why i proposed to push for Ulm and/or Florence. In 2 turns Flo can have 1 more spec, but if we revolt now it loses 1, thus it's even. I can probably push for 7 turns, maybe 6 and actually starve it to get rid of 1 useless angry citizen.

I think that the best thing is to revolt next turn to SP, so we can really have next GP from Flo before the end of this GAge. Chances of a GM are really low, but it's 13% now.

Shaandore · May 22, 2013

Yeah, I'm stupid :blush:

FR>>Theo because we have production and tech superiority. (And our 2 main military cities have settled GPs). BTW, we need to workshop Augsburg too since we won't be running slavery any more.

BLubmuz · May 22, 2013

So FR is the final choice. I'm fine with it, the most of our army is already built.

Before hit enter i trade those techs, revolt next turn. report in 5.

Folket · May 22, 2013

Shaandore said:
Actually, I did see your GP posts. And I don't like them, because Mainz has the best multipliers, therefore it should be last. The other cities will struggle more as the GP costs go up, especially after the GA ends. We can have a GArtist from Florence before this GA ends, and this GS from Mainz immediately after. This should be much faster than the other way around, because with the GA gone, Florenece or Ulm will have no multipliers. So if we want to have the least turns between the two GAs, then this is the best way to do it.

My plan was to get 5 GPs with Mainz first and last. I think Blubmuz pklans to get 4 GPs with Mainz first and last.

BLubmuz · May 22, 2013

OK, played until the end of the GAge.
Good news! the turn after this ended the GS from Flo popped, so now we can launch another one. The one from MAinz is due in 3, but if we launch now this can be reduced to 1 or 2. I think we can no more keep pacifism. With the monster army we have we're paying a lot of gold for maintenance.

Still on good news, i started the 2nd Khmer war this turn, razed one of the new cities and kept the good one with no losses. Also captured a lot of workers.

Shangai is razed, with some luck... again 20+ units there, luckily some attacked us and lost. The stack is now frozen to the doors of Nanjing.

Bad news: damn Qin has still some cuirass and now he's got OB with Toku. Also Nanjing is well defended, but something manageable: 13 units.

War weariness is striking badly in all our cities, included Vienna. It's the price to pay for the 2nd Khmer war.

Autolog

Spoiler :

Folket · May 23, 2013

Why did you get theology?

So GP plan is GS from Mainz, GS from Ulm, GM from Mainz?

Use the culture slider. At the moment 20% gives us net gain in research and extra production.

I do not think Japan is going to attack us. Do not worry about that. He is more likely to attack Khmer or China.

We are doing well. Khmer will die very fast between that and culture slider there is no reason to stop any wars. We should enter war with Russia quite soon.

BLubmuz · May 23, 2013

Folket said:
Why did you get theology?
a) why not?
b) because it was agreed
So GP plan is GS from Mainz, GS from Ulm, GM from Mainz?

Use the culture slider. At the moment 20% gives us net gain in research and extra production.

I do not think Japan is going to attack us. Do not worry about that. He is more likely to attack Khmer or China.

We are doing well. Khmer will die very fast between that and culture slider there is no reason to stop any wars. We should enter war with Russia quite soon.

Yes the GP plan is this. We actually need 2 GS, 1 probably for Astro and 1 for Phy. I doubt the 2nd from Mainz can bulb something we want to research. But Ulm is polluted with a GM now, so it's not assured.
I has the WW strikes this turn, so i did nothing. I'm just verifying we have a theatre in any city.
About the GAge, i prefer to wait 1 turn, then launch. No civics change the first turn, but as soon as Mainz pops its GS (hopefully) revolt to FR. We can't keep pacifism, it's too costly.

The priority for workers are the RRs, mainly to the south, where we need continous reinforcements. ATM i got a galleon which can threaten our galleys, so i'm very conservative, but the Khmer cities and also Guang are already contributing to the war effort and with good production.

Folket · May 23, 2013

We can still use GMs. After physics it is only GMs and GEs that are useful. A gm will still generate quite a few beakers.

Shaandore · May 23, 2013

Build Machine guns for stack defense, at least two for each stack. This is top priority.

Culutre slider. Definitely. At least 20% until Sury is dead.

BLubmuz · May 23, 2013

Shaandore said:
Build Machine guns for stack defense, at least two for each stack. This is top priority.

Culutre slider. Definitely. At least 20% until Sury is dead.

OK, IIRc i already have started some MG. To be safe, i'd like to keep a reserve gold for emergency upgrades of muskets.

BLubmuz · May 23, 2013

Long autolog, post later. Really long, part 1

Spoiler :

BLubmuz · May 23, 2013

Autolog part 2

Spoiler :

My TS should have finished, but if haven't complaints, i'd like to play until i take gems chinese city.

Research:
I followed the path we discussed, but we lose the Physics race for 2 turns :mad:

. to Peter.
Now we have a good number of airships already used, and a good number of rifles being built, since i chosen that for safety. Corporations was researched in 1 turn and i started Combustion, but we can change to AL. I consider Airports a priority, i doubt we wanna build many factories.

A mistery, Peter:
while preparing my PPP i checked and he has no contact with anyone but us. During my last session i checked because i was surprised by Qin cannons and cuirass after i pillaged his iron. Peter was giving him iron for gems! The mistery is: how can have him met Qin, Toku and Sury? In any case, now he has lost the trade route with the south, because of the war.

War? yes, the turn before finish Sury i declared on Peter because:
a) i has enough units in Khoisan
b) to try (successfully) to break his trades with the south.

He does not seems to have a big army, it should be just a question of logistics. And he built the Kremlin in StPete.

Domination:
we're @ 510 tiles for 36.3% of the 899 for 64%
i consider 110 from former China and Khmer, 70 for Russia (2 more riverside cities) and 80 for Hangzhou, Tokyo, Osaka and Kyoto, which are the only cities we wanna keep.
We arrive to 770 and we need only one city in "England" to airlift units.

So i think we're safely below the dom limit if we follow this plan.

Toku
I was worried by a big but obsolete stack, but he was coming for Sury. I was faster.
Now he doesn't shows the fist.

If you agree, with a sort of PPP i'd like to play until the fall of Hangzhou. Then i let you finish Qin, which planted an absurd city between that and Nagoya and Peter and prepare for Paratroopers.

Me and UT can give some good suggestion on that matter because we used them intensively in our first game together.

ahh... we got a GS from Ulm, totally useless, i think. I quickly converted it to merchants, but it was polluted. In any case research is no more a problem. Probably we arrive to paras before to finish Toku and Peter.

And i has a GG in Timbu this turn, i settled him there. The high WW disappeared with the end of Khmer.

Shaandore · May 23, 2013

I'd like to check the save, I can do it tonight, and tomorrow you can finish the few turns you wanted.

Folket · May 23, 2013

Why are you running scientists in Mainz? It still not to late to fix. Run 11 merchants there for 4 turns. Then run 9 merchants for 6 turns, then starve. Should give us a 60% GM in 14 turns.

Folket · May 23, 2013

I have no problem with having you play til the next Chinese city falls. I do not see any reason to delay it either. But Shaandore wanted to see the save so wait for someone else to give green light.

You can probably ignore getting one more GP. It is to late now. We only have three techs left. Also Russian cities are also to late. Just raze them all.

SGOTM 17 - Fifth Element

Deity

another mathematician

HoF Quattromaster

HoF Quattromaster

another mathematician

HoF Quattromaster

another mathematician

HoF Quattromaster

Deity

HoF Quattromaster

Deity

HoF Quattromaster

Deity

another mathematician

HoF Quattromaster

HoF Quattromaster

HoF Quattromaster

another mathematician

Deity

Deity

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