SGOTM 17 - Maple Sporks

Indeed we probably should start contemplating settling something opposite Peter's shore. However, we really should accompany that settler well. Case is I sent two extra knights over to the open territory for extra scouting, but both succumbed to barbs! So a settler needs good protection. A couple of cuirs maybe. :mischief:

I also dug up this little gem from the log. If Pizarro was a bit unlucky, how about this maceman? :)
Turn 217, 1535 AD: Quartermaster's Maceman 10 (SilverBanana) (9.60) vs Qin Shi Huang's Maceman (3.30)
Turn 217, 1535 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 217, 1535 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 217, 1535 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 217, 1535 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 217, 1535 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 217, 1535 AD: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 217, 1535 AD: (Combat: +50%)
Turn 217, 1535 AD: Quartermaster's Maceman 10 (SilverBanana) is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 217, 1535 AD: Quartermaster's Maceman 10 (SilverBanana) is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 217, 1535 AD: Quartermaster's Maceman 10 (SilverBanana) is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 217, 1535 AD: Quartermaster's Maceman 10 (SilverBanana) is hit for 16 (36/100HP)
Turn 217, 1535 AD: Quartermaster's Maceman 10 (SilverBanana) is hit for 16 (20/100HP)
Turn 217, 1535 AD: Quartermaster's Maceman 10 (SilverBanana) is hit for 16 (4/100HP)
Turn 217, 1535 AD: Quartermaster's Maceman 10 (SilverBanana) is hit for 16 (0/100HP)
Turn 217, 1535 AD: Qin Shi Huang's Maceman has defeated Quartermaster's Maceman 10 (SilverBanana)!
Click to expand...
I've lost 99.something battles before, but 100.0% I think that's a first time...
 
DwarfSleepy said:
I tested the teleportation trick: It works, but there is a problem: if we subsequently declare on Churchill, we of course close borders with him, and get booted out of his teritory again. So it will only work if there is an uncultured piece of land inside the ice wall that's closer to the units than another piece somewhere else... Ergo: WE NEED THE MAPS! Gift Churchill's attitude up so we can get his map! And get paper so we can get Peter's map!
Click to expand...
Good work on the test!

I totally agree about the need for maps! Stupidly didn't realize that Churchill with paper could obviously already trade his map away... From this leader pdf I scooped up a long time ago, I see Churchill needs to be at pleased to trade away his map. Maybe we can gift philo or something.

Also agree that we should be very conscious about attacking Japan, because indeed after a DoW we'll never again be able to do any teleporting... So for now I wouldn't attack Japan just yet.

If the map thing with Churchill won't work out, we could try to just teleport the axe we have roaming around Japan. Simply close OB with Japan in that case. Probably we'll be able to get Japan back to open them again, possibly by getting some diplo plus from gifting a tech.
 
nocho said:
Good work on the test!

I totally agree about the need for maps! Stupidly didn't realize that Churchill with paper could obviously already trade his map away... From this leader pdf I scooped up a long time ago, I see Churchill needs to be at pleased to trade away his map. Maybe we can gift philo or something.

Also agree that we should be very conscious about attacking Japan, because indeed after a DoW we'll never again be able to do any teleporting... So for now I wouldn't attack Japan just yet.

If the map thing with Churchill won't work out, we could try to just teleport the axe we have roaming around Japan. Simply close OB with Japan in that case. Probably we'll be able to get Japan back to open them again, possibly by getting some diplo plus from gifting a tech.
Click to expand...

Probably another trick from the mapmaker, getting him to pleased might not be trivial...

If a gift to Churchill won't get him to pleased and get us the map, I really like teleporting the Axe.

Even if Churchill has cultured all his lands, the strip of jungle just south of the northern ice wall is uncultured. If that is closer than somewhere else, we could teleport there, and then include a settler in the teleporting stack, to quickly build a coastal city and whip a galley/galleon... Well, all just guesswork until we get the map.
 
It looks like we'll need a coastal city for Russia asap because we'll need to build a fleet from scratch in that city.
 
Churchill is at cautious but already has the maximum fair trade bonus. So basically we have no way to increase his disposition towards us other than giving in to a random demand which may or may not come. In fact, he demanded something on my set and I refused... I guess we can just go for the teleporting.

We could move a knight too in about 6 turns towards Kyoto/Osaka to have it teleport to England. A 2-mover will do the scouting much more efficiently... The axe could go 1N of Tokyo hoping to be teleported to the "buffer" between Russia and England.

In fact, we could close borders right now with Russia in the hope our knight would be teleported 2S and not 2E... Worth a try I guess. :)

Note that the ice going west doesn't seem to go in a straight line any more. At least the tile 3W2S of the knight seems to be ice too. Probably there must be an opening of some sort over there. Frankly can't believe that the mapmaker would really force the use of teleporting or paratroopers. Make our lives miserable, sure, but not to that extent...
 
Teleporting 1 or 2 units for scouting is nice, but we need to do it again later for a real stack. Would it work a second time? (i.e. will we get open borders again with Japan?)
 
Well, we have some leeway in getting diplo plus for tech trades. We could try to send him a hindu missionary. But that means building a monastery first, then a missionary and then shipping it and moving it to Japan... Could take about 10 turns, but at least that'd pretty much assure we'd stay on good terms. In those 10 turns we might be able to squeeze in more units for teleporting. A hindu miss for Churchill too maybe (well that'd be more turns ofc)? Or a spy or something...

By the way, I'm thinking we may not need police state after all. We'll dominate everybody anyway. Maybe it's more important to keep research power through representation. I do think we may have to drop bureau. It's very expensive (38 gpt vs nationhood!) and I'm not sure totally worthwhile. Mercantilism makes sense, more so if we keep rep. So when we have a GA I'd go rep-nationhood-slavery-merc-theo.
 
my idea was not to declare japan asap :) but to build a force in the south to fight japan.

But there is a way to be friend with chirchill, he is at war with japan...

lets fake declare japan :)

his borders are closed with china, no big deal until we finish china (not seems like to be a priority)

EDIT: an option to secure path to the east is to take polynesian and minoan.

EDIT 2 : the DoW on japan enable one teleportation trick on axe
 
teleport an army is not an option for me.
Chirchill is the second army in the world and protective.
moreover, if we teleport in his lands, when declared, we will be put ouside his border, most likely on the other side of a line of ocean.

we need his map more than a small squad in his territory IMHO.
that would enable us to know how to get to his place. This map is a maze, having the map seems like to be crucial.
 
I think we seriously need to keep the teleportation option open. This could be a game changing/winning move. So let's not do anything stupid like declare on Japan until we have the map(s) and can decide whether we can pull it off.

The size of Churchills army doesn't bother me that much. If we teleport enough units to get the first few cities from him, we can then build locally. Although slow, it will still be quicker than teching until para's.
 
xpost

But then still we might as well just close borders with Toku, teleport the axe and have it move NW looking for a hole in the ice wall...
 
Btw, maybe we should force peace between Church and Toku. They are likely needlessly spamming units that they won't spend on eachother, but on us. ;)
 
If they're at war and we dow Toku we'll get diplo for mutual military and a teleporting axe. If Chill is spamming units then he won't be researching fast.
 
i agree with the slower research.

I propose to play the end of the turn with:
- declare mansa
- stop open border with russia and japan
- micro / queue management.
then upload again.

I've only noticed the low quality of our economy, i'll try to impove that (i know that shrine will help, but we are really low...)
 
The economy will be okay once we put the whole of former China and Cambodia on wealth (after rathauses where lacking). Workshop it all!
 
after playing one turn this morining, i consider we do not need cuir now. mansa have only longbows while we have enought treb to kill him.
I'm quite sure mansa have education (he had paper for enought time) so, why not tech paper and ask for edu as tribute.

i'm finishing paper at this time then will follow on astro (mutch more needed that MT in reality).
The 2 close borders worked perfectly.

the save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/download.php?file=Maple_Sporks_SG017_AD1575_01.CivBeyondSwordSave

can post pictures latter
 
From the tech screen I posted Mansa didn't have education yet. Did that change this turn?

I'm not against doing paper quickly, but don't have high hopes re education... I'd do it mainly for Russia's world map.

After paper you'd continue MT+astro?

Will have a look when the kids let me. :p
 
Ok, they already let me. :mischief:

Quick comments:
- Well ok, since you already put that turn into paper might as well finish it. Mansa doesn't have edu yet however.
- Teleporting worked out nicely! The main thing is to find England's entrance to the rest of the world. Presumably to his own NW. So axe should scout there first before mapping out the rest of England. Knight should look west first as well. (I guess you meant to, just confirming :))
- Fort Knox has farms now, needn't work sea. :p
- Not sure on the grocer in copper. I queued them in our commerce cities, but outside that I'd only built them in shrine cities and cities with dire health problems...
- If you speed up Furville's culture, we can get the fish for more general health...
- I noticed myself too late, but HE city doesn't have a stable...

Important thing to remember:
- Please prepare a settler party for the shore opposite Peter somewhere. Accompany the settler with decent defenses. Some muskets and a knight or so.
 
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