SGOTM 21 - Misfit Gypsy Nuts

Ronnie1 · Mar 22, 2015

At work for 5-6 more hours, will have a look then.

The roster order is

Ronnie1 - UP NOW
namliaM - on deck
nocho - waiting
sleepless - waiting
McArine - just played

Ronnie1 · Mar 23, 2015

Got it now!

Looking good McA!

PPP version 1

Pausing at Philo in 3-6 turns depending on capture gold and tech rate.

Goals

Keep looking to pick up Sugar from Mao.

Spread Christianity to core cities.

Build a settler for the 2 fish site!

Tech = Philosophy > Nationalism with an eye towards Military Tradition and Cuirassiers!

Trade for Feudalism and Drama from Willem right before we DOW! :evil:

Sell techs for gold to fund research

Lit to Isa for 60
Aesth to Toku for 50
CoL to Cathy for 50
Wait for Liz to get bit more cash and then sell Compass

Civics = NO Changes

EP = 100% on Mansa Musa

Workers: By priority = Resource > Farm/Food > :hammers:

Mine or WM depending on exact hammer numbers with an eye on 25% bonuses > commerce

Make sure new cities get worker support immediately. If workers are not available I may insert into build ques where needed.

Cities:
Athens: Missionary *2 (Beaver and 3 Fish) > Uni > Observ > Monastery > units > OxU asap
Lakeside: Uni > finish HE > units
DoubleGems: Mace > Uni
Beaver Isle: Trebuchet -> Uni (whip) > finish Elephant > Galleons
Tripple Fish: CH (3 pop whip now) lose mine/coast/artist > Uni > Galleons
Whorses: WB > Trireme > WB*2 > Settler for 2 Fish (WB's for 2 Whales and NotuM)
TriClam: CH (1 turn add Eng > whip) -> Library (add 2 scientists) > Uni > Galleons
Popcorn: Galleon > Library >
IronWoll: Galleons
NorthFish: Missionary > Library
Nongoma: Forge -> Barracks -> Units
Bulawaya( Rename 2 Whales): Granary ( 1 pop whip after 1 more turn) > Forge
The Hague: Forge
Ulundi: Forge
NotuMg: Granary

Warring

Bombard next turn and attack the following turn.

Move towards final city.

Start prepping for Willem.

BSPollux · Mar 23, 2015

Pics or it didn't happen!

nocho · Mar 23, 2015

I had a very brief look yesterday evening, will look a bit more later today.

Looks ok, the general gist of the PPP sounds good to me too. Some thoughts:

- I'd really want some farms at DoubleGems!

- I'd get that settler for 2Fish NW of Ulundi out asap. If it should come from Whorses (fine with me), then before all those boats, please. I doubt I'd even build WBs for those whales, we already have the happy and if I'm not mistaken the WB will just give an extra hammer. Not a big deal and certainly not much of a priority. I'm thinking that the first WB for 2Fish could be whipped quickly from Ulundi when it comes out of revolt.

- Not entirely sure we should get those missionaries from Athens, maybe it's better served concentrating on its infra. Maybe NorthFish can spit out a few more, helped with a chop. The library in NorthFish isn't necessary IMO.

- Popcorn's library, with the cottages maybe it'll be worth it, but I think I'd rather get a few more galleons out here first.

- TriClam should be hiring specs too, especially after university whip.

- Do we really need a full turn bombarding Shaka's penultimate city? Don't remember now how many siege units we have there, but maybe half can bombard and half suicide and then capture next turn already. Speed is important too.

- I noticed Liz will convert to Christianity. Not a big thing, but might be nice to get her to friendly. Maybe good for some begging later. Anyway, if we're giving her tech for a couple of dimes, might as well ask her to follow our faith.

- Maybe we should run 0% science until we get a couple of univs out, specifically Athens'.

Ronnie1 · Mar 23, 2015

Comments in blue

nocho said:
I had a very brief look yesterday evening, will look a bit more later today. Looks ok, the general gist of the PPP sounds good to me too. Some thoughts:

- I'd really want some farms at DoubleGems!
Yes

- I'd get that settler for 2Fish NW of Ulundi out asap. If it should come from Whorses (fine with me), then before all those boats, please. I doubt I'd even build WBs for those whales, we already have the happy and if I'm not mistaken the WB will just give an extra hammer. Not a big deal and certainly not much of a priority. I'm thinking that the first WB for 2Fish could be whipped quickly from Ulundi when it comes out of revolt.
Thought about settler from here. Guess I wasn't too worried about exactly how fast it gets founded and Ulundi has no infra.

Whales add 1 food, 1 hammer, 2 commerce, worth it imo.

Ulundi needs its forge > CH asap imo.

- Not entirely sure we should get those missionaries from Athens, maybe it's better served concentrating on its infra. Maybe NorthFish can spit out a few more, helped with a chop. The library in NorthFish isn't necessary IMO.
Not sure either, except it is the fastest way to get Christianity to 3 Fish and Beaver before there next whips. Athens won't have a problem being ready for OxU as the missionaries are 1 turn builds here.

NorthFish Library is an error, should be Galleons.

- Popcorn's library, with the cottages maybe it'll be worth it, but I think I'd rather get a few more galleons out here first.
I was planning on moving Galleon production to cities with completed infrastructure. May still be better here also.

- TriClam should be hiring specs too, especially after university whip.
I believe I have spec in the PPP here.

- Do we really need a full turn bombarding Shaka's penultimate city? Don't remember now how many siege units we have there, but maybe half can bombard and half suicide and then capture next turn already. Speed is important too.
There are only 2 killing units there next turn, 5 the following turn.

- I noticed Liz will convert to Christianity. Not a big thing, but might be nice to get her to friendly. Maybe good for some begging later. Anyway, if we're giving her tech for a couple of dimes, might as well ask her to follow our faith.
Love this idea!

- Maybe we should run 0% science until we get a couple of univs out, specifically Athens'.
We have a chance to found Taoism with Philo and keep the religious situation rather homogenous. I an ok waiting a bit to turn science back on however.

Sleepless · Mar 23, 2015

Keep on losing posts at work atm so a quick thought on tech path etc..

Do we want to reasearch atm? Would it be better to whip out the universities. Build OU and turn on tech after. Also have 2 nice forests to chop into OU as well..

tech path..

Do we go for the GM from Economics first (my preference) then onto Nat. Good chance of picking up philo in trade (Mansa).

War with Wil?? We need to buy the secrets first so 5 workers required. Also I would keep him around for a little while. Downside he will have some nasty LBs when we do go after him.

nocho · Mar 23, 2015

I think whaling boats don't add food. Our tile at whorses is 3 food, right? That's a food through the whale itself and another one from the LH. The boat adds the hammer, the commerce and the happy. So without food gain or effective happy gain quite low priority imo.

namliaM · Mar 23, 2015

Looks nice Mc

Is Nomamba worth razing to resettle 2 sw to include the 2 fish as well as the cow?

Think TriClam should be whipped harder, it doesnt have any angre at all. But has no library or courthouse

Popcorn IMHO should be fully cottaged, including the hills. Only a single farm should be able to complete the chain from the river to the city && corn

So many cities lacking cheap libraries QQ, though I understand we must make priorities.

Why do we want currasiers? wouldnt rifflemen be better given that most movement will be done by galleon?

The war on shaka is won, 8 WE, 7 XBow, 2 Macemen (this is a bit low actually), 7 Trebs
We may need a few trebs but then the war on the Dutch and possibly the french is all but won...
Time to rebuild our infra IMHO

What at the moment is our final tech target?
For Liz we need
a) No tech needed
b) Radio (Statue of Lib) or Radio (Resto)
c) ??
Dont see us building an otherwize quite useless statue (b), so either the ship or c, which we need to buy.

Isa
a) No tech needed
b) ??
c) ??
Dont know about giving away the GP, but its definately doable ...

For Cathy we need
a) 4 aluminum, 6 uranium and 10 oil resources
Industrialisme (Aluminium)
Scientific Method (Oil)
Physics (Uranium)
b) 12 armored units + 4 air units + 12 gunpowder
Industrialism + flight
c) apollo + 3 parts
Rocketery + Composits??

So we have our choice of goals for cathy (atm) and aim to have the game in the bag with the completion of her heart. ( atleast for now)
Will have to add beakers and compare the tech path needed to see which of the 2 are "fastest" a or b... Advantage of A and C is they dont care about what cathy thinks of us, B probably needs her to have OBs with us to have our units do the parade

Sleepless · Mar 24, 2015

Thinking about the requirements looks like Liz should be the ship. Will need 3GG's a drydock/barracks in Ulundi will give us a 50xp ship. Probably quicker than the statue builds. Especially as we need the MoM for the statues which funnily enough Liz has built for us..

.

Should be able to get the rest of the secrets from the workers we will pick up from Shaka plus probably one from the rest of the empire.

namliaM · Mar 24, 2015

Thing about Liz is neither of the ways requires her to like us in any way, we could gift her a city on the Desert isle or a iceball someplace and take the rest of her island for our own
Only issue is we need to overcome her culture, which at this point isnt that great yet I guess....

Ronnie1 · Mar 24, 2015

Comments read and digested.

Popcorn IMHO should be fully cottaged, including the hills. Only a single farm should be able to complete the chain from the river to the city && corn

I disagree with cottaging the hills, but we should have farmed the tile 1N and then cottaged the other grass. Not sure I want to start over and re-cottage the current farm and farm over what will soon(8t) be a village. More than willing to play either way though

I like sleepless' idea of turning off tech until we get OxU. The question for me is do we rush to OxU without stone? Or do we pursue a bit more slowly tech wise giving us a chance to capture the stone from Louis? I think waiting for stone is going to take too long if we are going to take Willem's mainland cities first.

While a appreciate lean and mean, contrary to MM, I don't feel we have enough units for both Willem and Louis. We currently have 9 siege and 23 other units including medic etc, but not counting 15 warrior mp's and 1 archer mp. We will certainly need more siege units and we will need to have units for garrison duty as well. I think we will need a few more killing units also. We currently have 0 galleons, we could upgrade the 1 galley on the north coast, but no hurry there as you aren't going to set sail with 1 boat anyway.

Other ideas to consider, Ulundi has 2 settled GG's! It will support a base hammer total of 16+. Would we consider abandoning the HE in Lakeside and building it here? Dry dock gets a base ship out with 8xp. GG attached gets us to 28xp. If we get to Privateers quickly we could easily kill a bunch of lesser vessels for 22xp.

This set, at least the first part of it, will be dominated by killing off Shaka.

PPP UPDATED version 2

Pausing when prepared to gift workers to Willem or Shaka is dead, less than 10 turns for sure.

Goals:

Keep looking to pick up Sugar from Mao.

Spread Christianity to core cities.

Build a settler for the 2 fish site!

Tech = Gunpowder at 0%

Spoiler :

Sell techs for gold to fund research

Lit to Isa for 60
Aesth to Toku for 50
CoL to Cathy for 50

Civics = NO Changes

EP = 100% on Mansa Musa

Workers: By priority = Resource > Farm/Food > Mine or WM depending on exact hammer numbers with an eye on 25% bonuses > commerce

Make sure new cities get worker support immediately. If workers are not available I may insert into build ques where needed.

Cities:
Athens: Missionary *1 (Beaver only) > Uni > Observ
Lakeside: Uni > finish HE??? see above > units
DoubleGems: Mace > Uni
Beaver Isle: Trebuchet (whip)> catch overflow after missionary into Uni (whip) > finish Elephant
Tripple Fish: CH (3 pop whip now) lose mine/coast/artist > Uni > Galleons
Whorses: Trireme > Settler for 2 Fish > WB for 2 Fish
TriClam: CH (2turns whip) > Library (add 2 scientists) > Uni > Galleons
Popcorn: Galleon > Library
IronWoll: Galleons
NorthFish: Missionary > Galleons
Nongoma: Forge -> Barracks -> Units
Bulawaya( Rename 2 Whales): Granary ( 1 pop whip after 1 more turn) > Forge
The Hague: Forge
Ulundi: Forge
NotuMg: Granary

Warring

Bombard next turn and move the other 3 killing units into place, attack the following turn.

Move and capture final city.

Start prepping for Willem.

Ronnie1 · Mar 24, 2015

Is Nomamba worth razing to resettle 2 sw to include the 2 fish as well as the cow?

Forgot to address this issue. I looked at that site also, but it orphans a really nice plains oasis. I believe founding 2 Fish 1 south and keeping both cities is better.

Also, once the AI get Astro, they will settle all those southern island fish sites.

Pics from end of T138, 560AD,

Spoiler :

nocho · Mar 24, 2015

I'm fine with the plan.

Popcorn, I think it's fine as it is. I frankly never ever have built a cottage on a hill.

It's never going to be an uber-science city. It should take back the cottage from NorthFish in due time though.

Heroic Epic. While Ulundi has the 2 GGs, it has max base hammers of 17, including hiring an engineer. Lakeside already has those 17 base hammers and has room for a significant amount of workshops. Therefore, I'd keep the HE in Lakeside. Still it will be a good idea to get that boat, if we go that way, from Ulundi, with a drydock build there. It'll still start with 8XP; we don't need the HE for that. Otherwise Ulundi is indeed a military only place with corresponding infra needs.

Knowing that we have to tech at least to industrialism, we probably should be strict about binary now and wait to turn tech back on at least until the universities are out. More so if we don't have a very urgent tech need anyway. That being said, I personally wouldn't vote against getting philo asap. Since Mansa has paper already, if we want to get philo from him, then he'd be just edu away from teching lib, which might give us smaller room for libbing something big. Then again, we may have to settle for nationalism anyway.

Then again, maybe we should aim for steel. I think namliaM said we needn't necessarily go for MT and cuirs, might agree with that, with a lot of islands. Maybe cannons is the way to go, MT is a dead end tech anyway. Steel gives us that drydock too. And needs chemistry for the privateer or frigate. I think I might be warming up on libbing steel here.

Also, ironworks. In any case, we can decide a bit later. For now 0% on gunpowder sounds good.

Supposing a lot of warring for the foreseeable future, fine with more units. If we have too many units, we can fight on more fronts at the same time.

Oh, I was wondering, can The Hague flip back to Willem? He obviously is a previous owner, but not the previous one to us, so I'm not quite sure how that works out. All the more reason to at least capture Utrecht and Amsterdam relatively quickly.

Sleepless · Mar 25, 2015

nocho said:
I'm fine with the plan.

Popcorn, I think it's fine as it is. I frankly never ever have built a cottage on a hill. It's never going to be an uber-science city. It should take back the cottage from NorthFish in due time though.

Heroic Epic. While Ulundi has the 2 GGs, it has max base hammers of 17, including hiring an engineer. Lakeside already has those 17 base hammers and has room for a significant amount of workshops. Therefore, I'd keep the HE in Lakeside. Still it will be a good idea to get that boat, if we go that way, from Ulundi, with a drydock build there. It'll still start with 8XP; we don't need the HE for that. Otherwise Ulundi is indeed a military only place with corresponding infra needs.Forgot barracks don't help ships but yep a drydocks in Ulundi would be a good idea.. . Lakeside as mentioned should be workshopped up.

Knowing that we have to tech at least to industrialism, we probably should be strict about binary now and wait to turn tech back on at least until the universities are out. More so if we don't have a very urgent tech need anyway. That being said, I personally wouldn't vote against getting philo asap. Since Mansa has paper already, if we want to get philo from him, then he'd be just edu away from teching lib, which might give us smaller room for libbing something big. Then again, we may have to settle for nationalism anyway.Good point about keeping philo out of the AI hands. Also steel would be a nice tech to use lib on.

Then again, maybe we should aim for steel. I think namliaM said we needn't necessarily go for MT and cuirs, might agree with that, with a lot of islands. Maybe cannons is the way to go, MT is a dead end tech anyway. Steel gives us that drydock too. And needs chemistry for the privateer or frigate. I think I might be warming up on libbing steel here. Also, ironworks. In any case, we can decide a bit later. For now 0% on gunpowder sounds good.

Supposing a lot of warring for the foreseeable future, fine with more units. If we have too many units, we can fight on more fronts at the same time.

Oh, I was wondering, can The Hague flip back to Willem? He obviously is a previous owner, but not the previous one to us, so I'm not quite sure how that works out. All the more reason to at least capture Utrecht and Amsterdam relatively quickly.

Plan sounds good to me as well Ronnie1.

Ronnie1 · Mar 25, 2015

Reference number: 14735
Game: C-IV SGOTM 21
Your team: Misfit Gypsy Nuts
Your name: Ronnie1
Date submitted: 2015-03-25
Software Version: BtS 3.19
Game date: 660AD
Total turns played: 143
Session turns played: 5
Player race: Greece
Firaxis score: 1212
Session time played (hh:mm:ss): 01:04:49
Total time played (hh:mm:ss): 17:04:47
Game status: Incomplete
Submitted save: Pericles AD-0660_pause.CivBeyondSwordSave

Played to the death of Shaka, 4+ turns so far. Most units can move this turn.

Everything did NOT go according to plan. :mad:

Nobamba fell to Willem IBT T139-140, so we did not get the 4 workers we intended on gifting to Willem for the clues.

I think we should consider buying the last clues with cash now and just get on with killing Willem.

We can attack Nobamba right now to start the war if we want.

Spoiler :

Upload log

Spoiler :

Ronnie1 · Mar 25, 2015

Autolog

Spoiler :

Sleepless · Mar 25, 2015

I would leave Wil for a while. try and get a settler for double fish asap. If we miss it can always build on the whale islands to the South.

Money cost is quite a bit so would look at building workers. Also Wil has longbows some on hills highly upgraded. Would rather use our troops on Loius now as we can easily wipe him out later.

Ronnie1 · Mar 25, 2015

We don't have nearly enough Galleons to even consider Louis yet. Probably 10 turns at least with heavy whipping just to get then built plus turns to move them into position.

We have Trebs, I'm not overly concerned about a few LB's. Driving Willem off the continent won't take long at all imo. We could get the last clues while he is on his last city and be ready to attack directly from Liz's territory when ready.

I just see us hemorrhaging money if we sit on our army. Also, The Hague is under severe cultural pressure. I have 5 units in the city and there is still a 5+% chance of a revolt.

3 Fish will build Galleons non stop now.

We have 1 University complete, in 3 Fish, and 5 under construction. Should be able to start OxU in 3-4 turns.

Ronnie1 · Mar 25, 2015

Thought about it some more.

Draft PPP for 5 more turns.

DOW Willem immediately, forgetting about the clues in the short run.

If we are set on the 50xp boat, we don't even need the final clue from Liz.

If we use the 3 GP's for Isabella, we don't need anymore from her either.

Details to follow.

nocho · Mar 25, 2015

Yeah, I'd probably attack Willem now and leave him Rotterdam, but get the secrets after the war. No immediate urgency to get those secrets and we may capture a few workers.

Whip the remaining univs now and start OxU next turn.

Hire specs in 3fish and 3clam!

Seems we can make some gpt deals, or renegotiate them.

SGOTM 21 - Misfit Gypsy Nuts

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