SGOTM 21 - Xteam

Folket · Mar 11, 2015

Jag är fortfarande utan internet och kommer inte vara på mitt vanliga jobb så får skriva på svenska. Jag är lite osäker på varför spelet stannat upp. Vad behövs för att vi kan komma vidare? Är alla upptagna?

Förhoppningsvis så får jag tillbaka internet idag. Jag tycker vi ska spela två omgångar snabbt så att vi kan köpa ett par ledtrådar.

Dhoomstriker · Mar 11, 2015

Folket said:
Jag är fortfarande utan internet och kommer inte vara på mitt vanliga jobb så får skriva på svenska. Jag är lite osäker på varför spelet stannat upp. Vad behövs för att vi kan komma vidare? Är alla upptagna?

Förhoppningsvis så får jag tillbaka internet idag. Jag tycker vi ska spela två omgångar snabbt så att vi kan köpa ett par ledtrådar.

Spoiler :

I have been unavailable.

I will be stating the following items completely from memory. Some of the things to do for the current turn and the next turn are:
1. Cap switches to working the newly-built G Riv Cottage
2. Cap doesn't complete its Work Boat yet, to avoid paying Unit Cost Gold prior to being able to use the Work Boat at Triple Fish City
3. City 4 can steal the Gems Mine so that Gems City can work another square, such as the GH Mine. Since we are at 0% Science, it does not matter which City works the G Riv Gems Mine, so this way, we trade a 2F + 1C square for a 1F + 3H square
4. We could probably build Wealth somewhere to try to earn more Gold over the next 2 turns, so that we can buy 3 hints (50 + 75 + 100 = 225, but 71 x 3 only = 213). Gems City might be a good choice, with us switching to working the GH Mine square, at least for 1 turn... we can switch back to working the G Riv Gems Mine in Gems City next turn, when City 4 can work its newly-improved G Riv Farm.
5. Cap might also be an option for building Wealth.
6. Warrior 3 SW -> W, Warrior 2 SE -> SE (safer and better fog-busting), Archer 1 SW -> E
7. When Surfin' Turf grows to Size 4, work the GH Mine for one turn to complete the Lighthouse, then switch the GH Mine to the Lake on the following turn
8. Watch out for the birth of Great People. If, say, Elizabeth gets a Great Scientist, we'll want to sell her Code of Laws
9. We could consider trading our Cow Resource for an AI's Health or Happiness Resource, if one comes available, but if it's going to be a Health Resource, we'll need to Road our Corn soon... perhaps we should plan to Road it after completing the current Farm at City 4, to save on Worker turns, although it will probably mean 2 less Food by delaying the next 2 G Riv Farms by 1 turn each; I'd be okay if we delayed the Corn Road and focused on building Farms, instead
10. Galley 1 moves into Cap this turn
11. The Worker at Cap moves into Cap next turn and immediately loads into the waiting Galley 1, who will bring the Worker to the NW PH on Triple Fish Island, to start building a PH Mine. We might as well Road all 3 PH squares in case a Resource pops there later
12. Once the G Riv Farm at Surfin' Turf is done, we should complete a G non-Riv Farm that is shared by Surfin' Turf and Gems City, to be used by Gems City once we fire the 2 Scientists
13. We shouldn't need to decide about Hereditary Rule for the next 2 or 3 turns
14. Switch to building a Scout in City 4, so that when we whip the Warrior, we won't convert too many Hammers into Gold (and I'm not sure how well that conversion actually works)

With this many details, a turn-by-turn PPP will be quite helpful, but I currently am unavailable to write one

I found a little bit of time to pump out a possible plan for the next couple of turns.

It seems that we have to decide between delaying the PH Mine at Triple Fish Island or delaying the City settled there, since our Galley 1 can't be in two places at once. Since settling the City will give us Food, Hammers, and a net gain in Commerce, we don't want to delay the settling of the City, so we'll just have to delay when we will build our Mine there

Possible improvement to the plan below
Also, if we don't mind not working an unimproved square for one turn at Size 6 in City 4, we can skip building a Scout there and can simply build a Warrior... in fact, if we borrow the Gems Mine sometime later for 2 turns after growing, we might even finish our Warrior in time to work such an unimproved square. So, we can keep building the Warrior in City 4 for now

The alternative option, which would be slightly better, would be to RIGHT AWAY cancel Worker 1's action (press 1 then the Backspace key) and have Worker 1 load into Galley 1 THIS TURN, then have Galley 1 move NE + N once Worker 1 is aboard.

On T78, Worker 1 unloads onto the south-west PH on Triple Fish Island, and after Worker 1 has unloaded, Galley 1 moves SW + S to sit 1NE of X-opolis, where our Settler can board into Galley 1 on T79.

Meanwhile, Worker 5 would keep Cottaging the G Riv that is 1SW of X-opolis and later, we would send the Worker that gets built out of X-opolis after our whipped Settler to Fur Island to finish off the G Forest Chop there.

But, this change to the plan that is listed below can only work if we cancel Worker 1's action and load Worker 1 into Galley 1 this turn. If we can do things that way, great, but if not, the plan below is also all right, it's just that we won't earn as many Hammers in Triple Fish City.

Older Version of the Suggested PPP

Spoiler :

I did some quick testing and it is easy to cancel a Worker's action with the game paused... first select the Worker, next cancel the Worker action, and only then unpause the game.

Dhoomstriker · Mar 11, 2015

Newer Version of the Suggested PPP (with the change of sending Worker 1 to Triple Fish Island; changes are in red colouring)

Diplo Policies:
If an AI Demands/Requests a tech which is not Monarchy, give the AI that tech. If an AI Demands/Requests Monarchy, then tell that AI "no"

If an AI Demands a Resource or Gold, give the AI that Resource

If an AI Demands/Requests Gold, let's say that if it is less than 100 Gold, give it to the AI, but if it is more than 100 Gold, do not give it to the AI

If a tech trade comes available, stop play to discuss the opportunity

Spoiler we already did these things :

T82, 825 BC Continued

Possibly perform the 233-Gold gift procedure:
DONE already: a) Save the game
b) Talk to Willem and take a screenshot of the trading screen
c) Gift 233 Gold to Willem (100 + 133 = 233)
d) Take another screenshot of the trading screen
e) Save the game
f) Send a Private Message to BSPollux and Deckhand, asking for two more hints. Which hints? It sounds like we should just ask for Isabella #1 first.

After we find out what Isabella #1 is, we can decide/argue/fight between picking Elizabeth #2 or Isabella #2.

Stop play and wait to find out what our clues are. Our future Worker actions may have to change based on what the clues tell us.

C2: Build Research, to earn 149 Flasks on the F2 screen, for a good Science multiplier (we earn a free Flask this way).

Consider making this trade:
40 Gold from Elizabeth <-> Currency

We should be at roughly -30 Gold per Turn

T83, 800 BC

C2: Build Work Boat

C4: Switch GH Riv -> SE G Riv Farm

Select Worker 4 (press the "4" key or find him to the east of Surfin' Turf) and stop his current action, if possible.

W1: Road the south-west PH of Triple Fish Island (in case we pop a Resource there later, we won't want to send a Worker back to that island)
W2: Complete the Farm on the G Riv that is 1SE of City 4
W3: Move 1SW to the GH Riv Road (2S of City 4) and Mine
W4: Stop Farming, move 1W G Road (1E of Surfin' Turf) and partial Farm and STOP; if he has already acted, just stop his action this turn ~~W4: Farm the G that is 2E of Surfin' Turf~~
W5: Move 1NE G Riv (1NW of X-opolis) and Cottage
W6: Chop G For (1N of Fur)... we won't lose turns invested in our Cottage but we will get the Chop 1 turn sooner

Settler: Settle a City on the south-east corner of Triple Fish Island, to get all 3 Fish within our big fat cross. Give the City a suitable name

C6: Build a Granary
C6: Work the PH Mine

Galley 1: Move SW + SW to wait 1NW of X-opolis

Warrior 2 is in spawn-busting position already on the TH Riv For that is 1W of the G Riv Horse

Archer 1: Explore westward as you feel fit

C1: Deer, Crab, Wheat, 1W Cottage; Spy
C2: Gems, Gems, 2N Farm, SW + S Farm, GH Mine; Work Boat
C3: Cow, Crab, Gems, Lake, 1NE Farm; Archer
C4: Corn, Farm, Farm, Farm; Warrior
C5: SW Crab, Fur; Granary
C6: PH Mine; Granary

We should be at roughly -36 Gold per Turn

We should be making roughly 155 Flasks aka "Research" on the F2 screen, which is a good enough number not to need to build a Research build item anywhere

Note that the Flasks number might be wrong depending upon how Foreign Trade Routes get reassigned after we settle the Triple Fish Island City

Folket · Mar 12, 2015

I'm inclined to say Elizabeth hint 1, unless Catherine hint 2 can be done soon.

Dhoomstriker · Mar 12, 2015

I have been going back and forth trying to guess and out-guess which hint to ask for out of the Elizabeth hints and my final conclusion is that the tasks are likely to be so different from each other (Cathy's tasks are likely to be not comparable to Elizabeth's tasks) that it is going to be very hard to judge whether to take Elizabeth #1 or Elizabeth #2, so I don't even know how to cast a vote, and if you want to pick #1, then #1 it is.

Will you be playing the turnset, Folket?

EDIT: There might not being be any difference between giving 75 Gold or 50 Gold initially and then the other amount of Gold on the following turn, but I suppose that if we give 75 Gold at first, we will have a rough idea of how much Gold Willem will be willing to trade back to us. As per the test game, if I give us a bunch of Gold in the World Builder and gift 200 Gold to Willem on T78, he is willing to trade us back 110 Gold. Of course, no matter how much Gold he is willing to give back to us, we would have to:
1. Get it back from him on a different turn
AND
2. Be willing to give him a tech to get some of our Gold back, such as Currency and then, if we gave him more Gold, sell him Construction later if he will give us more of the Gold back to us

I would be okay with Willem knowing these techs since the plan is to attack him in the near future. Currency won't help him much when he is down to 1 City (woo hoo, +1 Trade Route in his whole empire) and Construction can mean that he either builds Colosseums for us (free Odeons, yay) or builds Catapults (which could be annoying but should lose to our Drill III Catapults when we are defending or our City Raider III Catapults when we are attacking).

In the worst case, he could bribe an AI who does not have their hands full to attack us, but then we would be in a war with an overseas AI without incurring the normal war declaration Diplomacy penalty, so such a fact could be to our advantage.

Folket · Mar 12, 2015

I had no plans to carry on but since my internet is back I can play 1 turn to buy the first hint. I will need to look at the micro tonight.

Dhoomstriker · Mar 12, 2015

Folket said:
buy the first hint.

That plan sounds good, as it will give us another topic which everyone should be able to discuss and knowing that information can let us do some longer-term planning.

leif erikson · Mar 12, 2015

Folket said:
I had no plans to carry on but since my internet is back I can play 1 turn to buy the first hint. I will need to look at the micro tonight.

Okey Dokey. After that is completed, I think this is where we are?

Roster:
Cactus Pete - UP
The-Hawk - On Deck
leif
neilmeister
Dhoomstriker
Folket

Htadus - RL causes a sabbatical, please come back soon.

Folket · Mar 13, 2015

turn 77
move warrior 3 East.
I noticed that it was moving west in the PPP. I thought we had agreed in fogbusting the east. It does not cost us any supply before we land our settler on fish island. During that turn we can move him into our border and not fogbust 1 tile for 1 turn.

T78
Isabella demanded Mathematics which I gave her.
Shaka wants to buy writing for 35 gold. I decline the deal.
Was very close to gift gold to Elizabeth instead. That would have been embarrassing.

Folket · Mar 13, 2015

Spoiler :

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/download.php?file=Xteam_SG021_BC0925_02.CivBeyondSwordSave

Folket · Mar 13, 2015

I have sent the PMs to BSPullox and Deckhand now. Guess we will have a small wait during which we can discuss warrior 3. I would prefer him WWSW of corn. Then our other warrior can move 3 tiles south and allow our archer to map the coast.

Folket · Mar 13, 2015

The test game is not updated with terrain along the polar shipping routes.

Cactus Pete · Mar 13, 2015

Looked at the save: Great work Folket. Can you continue until this hint business is finished? I'm uncertain about how to manage the mechanics of that.

See no reason why w3 shouldn't go east to help the scout fogbust. He's not needed to fogbust in west.

Why are we using the cottage in X-op instead of a mined hill to speed settler production?

It would be greatly appreciated if someone would get rid of the outdated notes on the save or at least tell me how to. I find them really distracting.

Folket · Mar 13, 2015

The plan is to slow the settler production. If we invest 9 hammers we can whip 3 people next turn.

Dhoomstriker · Mar 13, 2015

Folket said:
turn 77
move warrior 3 East.
I noticed that it was moving west in the PPP.

Let's just make sure that we're talking about the same thing here.
Left = west
Right = east

Folket said:
I thought we had agreed in fogbusting the east. It does not cost us any supply before we land our settler on fish island. During that turn we can move him into our border and not fogbust 1 tile for 1 turn.

My understanding was that we wanted to put Warrior 3 on the G Riv square that is SW + W + W + W of the G Corn.

We would move Warrior 2 south-east and then south-west to the TH Riv For that is 1W of the G Riv Horse.

We would thereby free up the Archer to perform exploration.

I am not too concerned about the Unit Supply cost, as we absolutely need to explore the bit of Coast between us and Shaka that has not been revealed, and using both Warriors as spawn-busters is a good way to do so.

If we worry too much about trying to save 1 Gold per Turn by not having to pay Unit Supply costs, we'll give up 5+ Gold per Turn from Foreign Trade Routes when we declare war on Willem.

The trick is to make sure that we do not leave holes in our spawn-busting lines as we move our Warriors and our Archer.

Folket · Mar 13, 2015

Yes, I'm wrong. It is and should be moving west.

I think SW+W+W is a better square since it can move into our culture to prevent supply costs when we want it to. It will spawnbust just as well. It is only one tile that will lack fogbusting for 1 turn.

Dhoomstriker · Mar 13, 2015

Cactus Pete said:
It would be greatly appreciated if someone would get rid of the outdated notes on the save or at least tell me how to.

Alt + s = adds or removes a sign... Alt + s and then click on a square with no sign in order to create a sign. Type in your message and press OK (or whatever the button is called). Alt + s and then click on an existing sign to remove it.

Cactus Pete said:
Why are we using the cottage in X-op instead of a mined hill to speed settler production?

Under Bureaucracy, if we put 10 or more Hammers into the Settler, then whipping will net us 45 Hammers per whipping action.

45 * 2 = 90 Hammers
A Settler costs 100 Hammers
100 - 10 = 90, meaning that if we earn 10 or more Hammers in our Settler, we can only whip 2 population points
If we only earn 9 Hammers, we can whip 3 population points for a lot of overflow Hammers with only 1 Unhappy person

BSPollux · Mar 13, 2015

Ok I'm here, will post your hint now. This is your first one, right?

Oh man, more work for me. You'll find the clues in an updated post on page#1 of this thread, so you will always know where they are. One minute.

Done

Cactus Pete · Mar 13, 2015

Understand regarding settler whipping and sign removal. Are there some signs that should not be removed?

Do we have to do anything else right now to satisfy BSP?

Looks like we should have gone for clue a. Is that not still a possibility?

Folket · Mar 13, 2015

Ouch, challenge 2 for Catherine is expensive. So we need industrialism and physics before we can win the game.

Let us take hint 1 for Elizabeth.

SGOTM 21 - Xteam

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