SGOTM 22 - TTfkapr

[shulec]

Gilgamesh is bragging about HAs, so he has horses. It does not seem likely that we will get Marble from him anytime soon. The AI have minimally traded resources. I see rice for deer and corn for deer. Maybe all AI have stone and Marble.

Saladin has FPs on plains, not desert. His cottages should get us some techs soon.

AI are teching fast. They won't have the unit spamming ability of Deity AI, but they sure are teching. The faster they tech, the harder it will be to get their best cities. The earlier we get their best cities, the better off we are.

Construction must come soon if we hope to get a city with Praets. Zara has construction already. I wonder if the AI were given a number of techs in addition to PH.

We may have to threaten a few of Darius's cities for him to consider peace. I don't like the idea of him sending more stacks, mostly because I don't want our improvements to get pillaged.

 

[elitetroops]

Okay, good. So at least Darius doesn't have elephants yet. I doubt we can get marble soon also. Would cost a lot. If we had stone that trade could possibly work.

I was thinking the same, even if the AI techs fast, they should not be spamming that much more units than normal monarch AI, which is not a lot. If we can get to a decent military tech they should fall, but that's not easy as they are teching fast and no tech trading is really slowing us down. I haven't played without tech trading before, don't know what is the best way to approach that.

I'll make a plan until IW today.

 

[Gumbolt]

Still abroad. Back tomorrow. Excellent work fighting off Darius. This game could well work out at imm level. It's clear the ai have good land here. Let's hope no other ai go war mode. If we have no iron that would be cruel. Plenty of techs to steal here.

 

[elitetroops]

Okay, time to finish this turnset... There's a good chance some things have to be adapted if Darius sends more units, but the aim is to get IW by T98, and have capital at pop 7 then.

I'd whip the worker in Fish, we really need a second worker now. First worker chops library, then could build farm/cottage/mine for capital. What's our preference here?

2nd worker would head to horse, do some preimprovements and prechopping along the way. I think it's not safe to stay and chop around fish, Darius is likely to show up again soon.

Horse whips granary, will grow back to pop 2 same turn horse is improved. After this I'd finish the archer. Rather slowbuild it than whip again and we need it in time for 4th city.

Tech IW at 100%.

Settle GG in cap.

Send the WM1 warrior to scout around cow and one unpromoted warrior to Horse. Avoid ending turns outside cultural borders when possible, to save money.

Gift tundra fogbuster to Sal? We really don't need all these warriors anymore and they are expensive. Or should I just disband it immediately? Or do we want to keep it for some reason?

Anything to add?

 

[shulec]

Some quick tests. IW by t98, Rome at pop 7 and I have a total of 5 archers. Horse and Fish can quickly finish one archer each. Rome could build settler in 5 turns, then grow to pop 8 and build one more archer in 3 turns, so earliest 4th city t106. Could possibly speed up settler by chopping if we want.

Might be a problem to get those archers to capital if we are still at war though.. Possibly we have to leave a few in Fish and build more instead. But I'm hoping we manage to get peace by then.

I whipped the worker in fish and then put a chop into granary, not sure if that's the best thing for him to do. Might also be he has to run away and improve capital or horse, if Darius shows up with reinforcements. Old worker chopped library, then went to improve horse. Also whipped granary in horse, I think that wins in the long run.

We really need more workers btw..

Oh, and I just realized we've been wasting gold fogbusting the tundra. Should have gifted the warrior to Sal and he'd have upgraded it to an axe or spear. Would save us 1 gpt at the moment to get rid of that warrior.

We need workers, archers, a settler, beakers and growth (in Rome).

I love whipping, but don't like whipping away population that can use good tiles. I feel like the sweet spot for whipping is at pop4 or pop5. I don't like whipping the worker in Fish City. I'd like to delay growth while building a granary, and finish the worker without whipping at Pop3, then chopping the granary.

I like finishing the library while growing, without chopping. Then we switch to a settler. This allows us to maximize research, and conserve forests. We finish the settler at Pop7, then grow while he heads to next city site, while Rome builds archers.
The archers needed for City four can be built while the settler is in transit.

Old worker - should chop the roaded PHF one turn, then improve horses, road horses, finish chop of PHF into granay. Then build archer(s).

I don't mind a worker build before settler in Rome, but it can wait. If iron is in/by jungle, we need to prioritize workers.

We need to start generating GS points asap, however, this in not likely important until the next turn.

I now do like settling the GG in Rome. Immediate beakers are great, plus library boosts the GG beakers.

I don't like exploring with Warriors. We will need them for garrisons and 1-2 for Medic IIIs.

 

[shulec]

Okay, time to finish this turnset... There's a good chance some things have to be adapted if Darius sends more units, but the aim is to get IW by T98, and have capital at pop 7 then.

I'd whip the worker in Fish, we really need a second worker now. First worker chops library, then could build farm/cottage/mine for capital. What's our preference here? Prefer Farms. What will be built after the library is chopped? I prefer the slow build and send worker to Horse City ASAP. Do we really need the 2nd worker now? Can't it wait several turns? We have 3-4 tiles improved aroudn fish. We have plenty of tiles improved around Rome, plus we can work Sci Specialists.

2nd worker would head to horse, do some preimprovements and prechopping along the way. I think it's not safe to stay and chop around fish, Darius is likely to show up again soon.Pre-improvements and prechopping are good options. GSpy should really tell us when Darius will arrive.

Horse whips granary, will grow back to pop 2 same turn horse is improved. After this I'd finish the archer. Rather slowbuild it than whip again and we need it in time for 4th city.No objection

Tech IW at 100%.

Settle GG in cap.

Send the WM1 warrior to scout around cow and one unpromoted warrior to Horse. Avoid ending turns outside cultural borders when possible, to save money. I like this plan. We need to know if Iron pops near cow. Horse needs a garrison.

Gift tundra fogbuster to Sal? We really don't need all these warriors anymore and they are expensive. Or should I just disband it immediately? Or do we want to keep it for some reason? If you disband it, some barb will raze Trojan. BAD! It is worth it to pay one GPT to fogbust the area until Iron is revealed in case we need to send a settler down there. If no iron down there, gift the warrior to Saladin.

Anything to add?

Aggressive AI - Generally they tech slowly (not this game). They are more ready to accept peace based on military threats outside their cities. The build more units in general, but more so for garrisons. They do not tend to build larger offensive stacks (in my experience).

 

[Gumbolt]

Literally just in the door. Been a long day and I got about 1-2 hours sleep last night. Will look at game tomorrow. Don't wait for my comments. I like preserving forest. 8 archers for city 4 looks good. Yep save warriors for now.

Will look at save tomorrow. Too tired today.

 

[yyeah]

I agree with shulec, but i do think that we need this worker IW is in about 8 turns if we want to lunch somekind of invasion we need to choop big time.

 

[elitetroops]

Sure, I can do like that as well. Delays second worker quite a lot though, seems it wouldn't be out until IW. In cap I built a 5th archer after library was chopped, leaving only 3 needed for 4th city. But I suppose we can also put chop into archer if we need it very fast after settler is out.

 

[shulec]

I am feeling like an invasion window is rapidly closing/closed. Maybe it is viable with construction. We will be strong enough to harass, but we will have a difficult time taking quality cited.

Waiting on the worker in Fish until Pop3 delays it about 8 turns. Another reason to not whip in Fish would be if a big Persian stack show up (unlikely). I'd rather build it at Pop2 than whip it.

 

[elitetroops]

Yes, invasion would be very hard. Elepult would still work for quite a while though. Just gets so expensive when we also need a ton of units in capital to keep anything. And it's slow as everybody is so far away. And slow build-up as we can't whip cap and the other 2 cities are way behind in development to what they should be at this time of the game. Might be better to expand peacefully to as many cities we want, then burn down the world.

 

[elitetroops]

I will play tomorrow. Won't whip worker. Not chopping library also means that I'm not whipping granary in horse as they get a strong horse tile to work earlier.

I won't stop for some random Persian axe showing up, but possibly have to if I find some monster stack heading our way.

 

[shulec]

Go for it!

 

[justjohn]

Plan until IW looks good to me.

(Not sure if the plan involves scouting cow with a warrior since there seems to be some contradicting posts about it. I think we can afford scouting (and possibly loosing) with one warrior (at most two). We do need a few warriors for other purposes.)

 

[shulec]

Plan until IW looks good to me.

(Not sure if the plan involves scouting cow with a warrior since there seems to be some contradicting posts about it. I think we can afford scouting (and possibly loosing) with one warrior (at most two). We do need a few warriors for other purposes.)

I agree on scouting/feeding barbs with one.

 

[Gumbolt]

Looking at save I think we need the horse hooked up asap. With horse and the mine that city has great production.

Fish still has some good tile to use. Capital has 1-2 spare tiles to run.

I think risking 1 warrior to scout is fine. What is near the ivory?

4th city asap is important.

Were 8 turns off IW here. Takes us to 400bc assuming city growth does not improve this. Then we need to build some Praets and bring a stack to the AI.

Darius is about 12 tiles away. Arabians 13-18. 18? for his capital. All forest terrain. High probability here the Ai will get feudalism soon.

I would really question going IW now. At this rate better to steal? We will need catapults for first war anyway. Iron would be useful for any barb cities and Praets to defend. I guess we can't risk having no strong defenders. We might be able to steal construction and IW? Hmmm. 200bc Praet attack is late.

This darius attack has really hit us for 6.

 

[elitetroops]

IW in one turn earlier than expected. We got a 3c traderoute in capital to speed it up.

Arctic iron for fish+deer city:

Spoiler :

No more enemy units have arrived, GSpy spotted a few. In particular a stack of one axe+3 immortals, which can attack us in 6 turns the earliest. Position last turn marked on map. Also saw one immortal and a spear earlier, next turn immortal was gone and spear wounded, probably fighting barbs.

Spoiler :

Note that both Fish and Horse have hammers invested into archers that they will lose in 4 and 5 turns.

WM1 warrior was wounded, so couldn't send him scouting. Sent Robert instead, who is currently bravely running away from a barb axe.

Updated testgame attached.

justjohn up next?

log:

Spoiler :

Here is your Session Turn Log from 600 BC to 450 BC:

Turn 91, 600 BC: Julius Caesar's Paul (Warrior) (2.40) vs Darius I's Immortal (0.96)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Combat Odds: 99.1%
Turn 91, 600 BC: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 91, 600 BC: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Darius I's Immortal is hit for 18 (2/100HP)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Darius I's Immortal is hit for 18 (0/100HP)
Turn 91, 600 BC: Julius Caesar's Paul (Warrior) has defeated Darius I's Immortal!
Turn 91, 600 BC: Bernard Montgomery (Great General) has been born in Rome (Julius Caesar)!

Turn 92, 575 BC: Gilgamesh converts to Buddhism!

Turn 94, 525 BC: Brennus adopts Hereditary Rule!

Turn 95, 500 BC: Antium has grown to size 3.
Turn 95, 500 BC: Saladin will trade Sugar
Turn 95, 500 BC: Hinduism has spread in Antium.

Turn 96, 475 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Rome!
Turn 96, 475 BC: Antium can hurry Worker for 1⇴ with 13ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 19 turns.
Turn 96, 475 BC: Horse can hurry Granary for 1⇴ with 11ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 96, 475 BC: Rome will grow to size 7 on the next turn.
Turn 96, 475 BC: You have discovered Iron Working!

Turn 97, 450 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Rome!
Turn 97, 450 BC: Rome has grown to size 7.
Turn 97, 450 BC: Saladin won't trade Sugar
Turn 97, 450 BC: Darius I refuses to talk.
Turn 97, 450 BC: You are the worst enemy of Darius I.
Turn 97, 450 BC: Brennus is the worst enemy of Saladin.
Turn 97, 450 BC: Darius I is the worst enemy of Brennus.
Turn 97, 450 BC: Brennus will trade Deer, Sheep, Silver
Turn 97, 450 BC: Gilgamesh will trade Corn, Cow, Fish, Marble
Turn 97, 450 BC: Zara Yaqob will trade Deer, Fish

 

[Gumbolt]

Both Brennus and Zara are on war mode. Zara can attack at pleased!!! Both are on high/highest threat on military advisor. I really don't see either attacking their neighbours. I think we will be their targets. Were going to need a lot more units very soon if we get dog piled. Is there a Ai logic on who to attack?

For me the fish/deer/iron city is needed asap.

Horse city could use a galley to speed up our settler. Although maybe just take the slow route. Barb axes are now about too.

This is actually turning into a tough old game.

Edit.

So we need to scout out Brennus for a stack. Our workboat is about 8-9 turns off that. Probably too late.

1 turn into wall in horse city. We need settler in Rome after library. We can grow to size 8 once done.

We will also need to chop/build some archers for city 4 or to defend. If Zara attacks he will have catapults for sure. I shudder to think what Brennus might have. Power wise he may consider us an easy target.

 

[yyeah]

Another crap city, we cant get bouth fish and gems no fresh water either, maybe this city will be somekind of usefull with moai, witch meens in +100 turns .

 

[shulec]

Another crap city, we cant get bouth fish and gems no fresh water either, maybe this city will be somekind of usefull with moai, witch meens in +100 turns .

At least we will pick up gems happiness eventually.

It can produce great scientists too. Good with Rep.