SGOTM 22 - TTfkapr

[elitetroops]

There is also a chance that he is plotting against Sal and is now heading towards undefended Trojan. Judging by the direction he is coming from, Sal is likely to be a valid land target and thus a more probable target for war.

Edit: probably not. Trojan was gifted last turn, he was already on his way in this direction.

 

[justjohn]

I like how a 2pop whip of the worker overflows into a granary. Then the worker chops out the granary with perfect timing to finish one turn before growth.

However, I don't know if it is a test game bug, but if I do the above plan, the game seems to ignore the granary, and doesn't store 12 from the previous turn after growth. But if I whip the granary it does store 12.

This sounds like normal Granary behaviour to me. Granary mechanics in Civ4 is different from previous versions. The granary doesn't begin to store food until the turn after it was built. And it only stores new food produced, not food that was put in food storage before the Granary was finished. Hence the optimal time to build a Granary, is when food storage is (at most) half-full (or slightly more if city overproduces food when growing).

 

[elitetroops]

We need to decide on some plan here.. I think whipping walls in fish is the best bet to keep that city. Should give winning odds for warriors against those wounded immortals and brings spear odds down to 75%.

yyeah, how did you go about with the walls? Seems to me that 2 turns of hammers into walls, then 2 pop whip into archer and archer would be out end of turn just before he can attack.

If he doesn't plan to attack us we should know in 2 turns, he would be inside our borders peacefully, and we can whip the worker instead.

We have 5 warriors in capital right now. One more can make it there from horse and the one fogbusting the one tile south of mountains can also. If we want any chance to keep fish, we need to send at least 3, probably 4 warriors there. They have time to turn around and go back if he is heading towards capital.

In capital we could also delay whipping barracks with one turn, in case he doesn't declare. But then the 2nd archer wouldn't have time to get promoted before he could attack.

 

[justjohn]

OK, I wrote that comment before I even got to the more pressing matters. Wow. A wounded but very dangerous stack that might be heading towards us. Not sure if I can add anything that you havn't already said and analyzed, not right away at least. Need to think.

 

[yyeah]

yyeah, how did you go about with the walls? Seems to me that 2 turns of hammers into walls, then 2 pop whip into archer and archer would be out end of turn just before he can attack.

No, no not like this 1 turn in to walls then whip it with at least 21 overflow.
So i got archer from overflow then 1 turn, and whip another archer, so i have 1 fresh archer when hes attacking 2nd time and 1 fresh warrior from horse.

Spoiler :

I was working mine and 3 1f2h tiles ... maybe we can work 1 cotage instand of 1 forested mine checking it atm.

Thing is i dont know how much overflow we got and can we reserch archery in 2 without working cotages...

This deer warrior can be usefull if we have to face 3th attack.

 

[yyeah]

If we work this Hamlet instand of 1f2h tile while bulding walls, in 3th turn when we are bulding archer we need to sw fish in to 2f1h tile.

 

[yyeah]

Allright i won 3 times of 4 like that so not bad . I try it 1 more time

Edit.

Now i lost, like mentioned it can go either way but i dont know any better option hope and pray that he wont attack in 4 turns.

 

[elitetroops]

So you did:
t84 - hammers into walls
t85 - whip walls
t86 - overflow into archer, finish first archer
t87 - hammers into archer (Darius can attack between turns)
t88 - whip second archer

Did you get enough beakers for Archery? Real game should be exactly like test when it comes to teching archery. Both say 89 turns with slider at 0%.

Another way to do it is:
t84 - hammers into walls, work both cottages
t85 - whip walls
t86 - overflow into archer (not enough to finish it)
t87 - whip archer
t88 - overflow finishes 2nd archer

This way Rome can work mines and get 2 archers in 2 turns immediately after we finish archery.

 

[elitetroops]

The micro I do to get 2 archers from both fish and cap asap and archery in 2 turns:

fish:
t84 - cottage, hamlet, fish, mine (walls)
t85 - hamlet, fish (whip walls)
t86 - fish, mine (archer)
t87 - fish (whip archer)
t88 - fish (archer 2)

capital:
t84 - pigs, 2 cottages, 3 mines (barracks)
t85 - pigs, 3 mines (whip barracks)
t86 - pigs, 3 mines (archer)
t87 - pigs, 3 mines (archer 2)

horse:
t84-t85 - coast
t86 - corn

I see no point in hooking up horse here before finishing farm, archers are better than chariots. Corn would be improved in time for horse city to switch back from coast. Horse can also run citizen for hammer+3 beakers instead of coast.

 

[yyeah]

No i didnt had archery in 2 turns in with my micro, i though that we have some overflow in to it from prev reserch.
So allright i wont be microing it again point is to get 2 archers in 2 turns and archery in 2 turns so way how you did it looks fine to me.
Like you know i allways more like to work then so perfect.

But iam thinking should we choop with worker to cap and get 3th archer in 1 turn allso, or finish farm. Another thing is maybe better to switch to worker in horse ciy ?

Edit
And wheres Paul? Paul neeeds to be there ... or maybe not dont kill Paul plz

 

[shulec]

The micro I do to get 2 archers from both fish and cap asap and archery in 2 turns:

fish:
t84 - cottage, hamlet, fish, mine (walls)
t85 - hamlet, fish (whip walls)
t86 - fish, mine (archer)
t87 - fish (whip archer)
t88 - fish (archer 2)

capital:
t84 - pigs, 2 cottages, 3 mines (barracks)
t85 - pigs, 3 mines (whip barracks)
t86 - pigs, 3 mines (archer)
t87 - pigs, 3 mines (archer 2)

horse:
t84-t85 - coast
t86 - corn

I see no point in hooking up horse here before finishing farm, archers are better than chariots. Corn would be improved in time for horse city to switch back from coast. Horse can also run citizen for hammer+3 beakers instead of coast.

This looks good. I don't have access to the save.

 

[elitetroops]

But iam thinking should we choop with worker to cap and get 3th archer in 1 turn allso, or finish farm. Another thing is maybe better to switch to worker in horse ciy ?

I think it's better to finish the farm. Then horse city can pretty soon whip archer if we need to. Horse city is useless without improvements.

I could play a couple of turns tomorrow morning. If Darius walks into our lands without declaring we have to stop for more planning. If he declares... guess we just have to hope for the best.

 

[justjohn]

The micro I do to get 2 archers from both fish and cap asap and archery in 2 turns:

fish:
t84 - cottage, hamlet, fish, mine (walls)
t85 - hamlet, fish (whip walls)
t86 - fish, mine (archer)
t87 - fish (whip archer)
t88 - fish (archer 2)

capital:
t84 - pigs, 2 cottages, 3 mines (barracks)
t85 - pigs, 3 mines (whip barracks)
t86 - pigs, 3 mines (archer)
t87 - pigs, 3 mines (archer 2)

horse:
t84-t85 - coast
t86 - corn

I see no point in hooking up horse here before finishing farm, archers are better than chariots. Corn would be improved in time for horse city to switch back from coast. Horse can also run citizen for hammer+3 beakers instead of coast.

This looks good to me, too. Just make sure to double-check that we have Archery in two turns for this to work.

I think it's better to finish the farm. Then horse city can pretty soon whip archer if we need to. Horse city is useless without improvements.

I could play a couple of turns tomorrow morning. If Darius walks into our lands without declaring we have to stop for more planning. If he declares... guess we just have to hope for the best.

Finish farm sounds good. I think this crucial turnset is well in your hands, elite. Let hope for the very best; than he doesn't declare on us and is going somewhere else.

I feel that so far I havn't been able to contribute with anything except simply agreeing with you. I hope to be more useful as the game progresses.

 

[elitetroops]

Between turns Darius' stack disappeared into the fog. It looked like it went SW, but I'm not 100% sure, could also have walked south. Didn't expect it, so I wasn't fully paying attention to what happened between turns. Too busy drinking coffee...

He can still be heading towards fish, but he is for sure not targeting Rome. So now the question is, do I still whip the barracks? The first archer from Rome could make it to Fish to defend by T89, second by t90. He can attack first time t87. But if he doesn't declare, then the barracks whip is a totally unnecessary setback.

In any case, I will send a 5th warrior to fish as well, that would give us walls+archer+6 warriors when he attacks, no chance to take it on first turn. A second archer comes out before he can attack again t88.

I'm still leaning towards whipping the barracks, because it could make the difference between keeping fish or not. If his stack doesn't come out of the fog between turns, he's not heading towards us, so I'd put overflow into library. Waiting for some comments on this before I proceed.

Sal built ToA and founded 2 new cities.

 

[yyeah]

I agree with whiping barracks he could move SW. if we dont whip baracks and he attack we wont def fish thats for sure so i rather to play safe.
Green here.

 

[shulec]

Whip Barracks.

 

[elitetroops]

Darius declares. One turn behind the first stack he has a Phalanx???

Spoiler :

That will make it very hard to keep the city as it's one more fresh axe for 2nd turn attack. Between turn his healthy axe got a bit wounded, but instead got CR2 promotion.

Now, the question is, full defense on fish, or realize we don't stand a chance and instead focus on defending capital. We can take the attack the first turn, he doesn't have enough units, and on the next turn we could have one fresh archer+2 fresh warriors. Unfortunately the warriors do nothing against those axes/phalanxes. The third turn a CG1 archer from capital could be there.

I won't have time to play anymore today, so I give you some time to think about this. We need some luck, but I think there is a chance to keep fish, unless he has even more units incoming.

We got a Great Spy btw.

log:

Spoiler :

Here is your Session Turn Log from 775 BC to 700 BC:

Turn 84, 775 BC: The Temple of Artemis has been built in a far away land!

Turn 85, 750 BC: Rome can hurry Barracks for 2⇴ with 30ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 85, 750 BC: Antium can hurry Walls for 2⇴ with 18ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 85, 750 BC: Brennus is the worst enemy of Darius I, Saladin.
Turn 85, 750 BC: Darius I is the worst enemy of Brennus.
Turn 85, 750 BC: Brennus will trade Deer, Sheep
Turn 85, 750 BC: Zara Yaqob will trade Fish
Turn 85, 750 BC: You have discovered Archery!
Turn 85, 750 BC: You have constructed a Barracks in Rome. Work has now begun on a Library.
Turn 85, 750 BC: You have constructed a Walls in Antium. Work has now begun on a Worker.

Turn 86, 725 BC: You have trained a Archer in Rome. Work has now begun on a Library.
Turn 86, 725 BC: Francis Walsingham (Great Spy) has been born in Rome (Julius Caesar)!
Turn 86, 725 BC: Deal Canceled: Open Borders to Darius I for Open Borders
Turn 86, 725 BC: Darius I has declared war on you!
Turn 86, 725 BC: Darius I refuses to talk.

Turn 87, 700 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Antium!
Turn 87, 700 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Antium!
Turn 87, 700 BC: Antium can hurry Archer for 1⇴ with 25ℤ overflow, 3ℴ added to the treasury, and +1⇤ for 18 turns.
Turn 87, 700 BC: You are the worst enemy of Darius I.

Oh, and earlier on the scoreboard didn't lie. Sal's capital indeed is landlocked with only 2 land tiles in outer ring.

 

[yyeah]

I would say try to def it.
But i dont like position of hes army if you move archer he can take him out with imm, if we move archer better promote him to c1 or idk its tought decision, hes attacking acros river and if archer wins we can promote him to get some health back .

 

[elitetroops]

I don't think he will snipe archer, he shouldn't even be able to see it. Also, he didn't attack warrior out in the open, even if he could have as I stupidly put it in such a position.

Will play a couple of turns now, we'll see what happens...

I will send the GSpy NW towards Darius lands, from there it can head south to Saladin for infiltration by the time we get some regular spies out. Or infiltrate Darius if he turns Fish into a suitable tech stealing location.

Sorry this is progressing very slowly, almost one turn at a time. Want to think through all options in a crucial moment like this.

 

[yyeah]

Go for it .
And yea this warrior was in a bad possition, plz put our units liek if he wil attack us let him do this acros river or on hills or for distraction.

Edit like this warrior S of Pigs you can move him SE of city or E of city for distraction depends how our defense goes.