SGOTM 22 - Xteam

[Jersey Joe]

I am so sorry guys!

Finally got break from work and read what I did. I think I was so focused on the archers and managing the faces from the whips that I totally lost need to be size 6 the turn of founding that city.

My sincerest apologies.

Ronnie, the size was easy to miss. After you posted, everyone was planning for war and it was only when I started to update the test game that I noticed Caput was not size 6. I second Htadus' sentiments about this:

First @ Ronnie. I know I could have made this mistake and do not want you to feel bad about it. I am not holding this against any player. So lets move forward.

@BSP, I am away from home and gaming computer until the 19th. Not sure how many turns were played after founding, but it would be in the logs. Basically just trying research IW at that point.

Antium was founded on turn 96. Ronnie played to turn 98 when Iron Working was learned. Caput will grow to size 6 when turn 99 starts.

 

[Cyborg T]

I am really sorry for what happened to you. But to be honest, I predicted that something like that may happen to some team (not specifically to your team). The rules of several previous SGOTM games, including this one, were really overcomplicated. I do not know what would be bad with a "normal" deity SGOTM game (without any additional rules). Then there would be no such problems...

 

[BSPollux]

Wait one more day please.

 

[BSPollux]

I asked Alan and this seems to be our best guess on how to proceed:
-You may keep playing for now, but...
-You have to replay from the save right before the mistake
-You have to repeat all your actions just you played before (minus the founding)
-You have to build the city as soon as it's allowed, at the same place etc. You get the idea

We think that we need to punish the rule violation in some way, but we don't want to do it ingame. A 5 turn penalty on your finishing date seems fair.

 

[Htadus]

Sounds good to me.

Green from me Ronnie

 

[leif erikson]

Sounds fair to me too.

Ronnie, I could easily have done the same thing. No sense bootin' yourself in the butt over it, let's see if we can get this back on track.

I think CP has some time, but it is limited. Ronnie is away from his PC, so do we have a save for just before we settled the city? On the server, the nearest one is turn 91. Don't think that will do.

 

[Htadus]

I am really sorry for what happened to you. But to be honest, I predicted that something like that may happen to some team (not specifically to your team). The rules of several previous SGOTM games, including this one, were really overcomplicated. I do not know what would be bad with a "normal" deity SGOTM game (without any additional rules). Then there would be no such problems...

For what it is worth, I mostly agree with you. (I am not a deity player nor care to be one. I like my wonder building habit )

I do not think these, or for that matter any scenario will make the game play easier for new players than experienced players.

@ Leif, I think we need to wait for Ronnie.

 

[Ronnie1]

I will be home on the 19th, I will replay those turns then.

Thank you BSP and AlanH!

 

[BSPollux]

I do not think these, or for that matter any scenario will make the game play easier for new players than experienced players.

Just to make sure: We never said it would be easy. I used the words "more straight forward". I wanted to contrast the very complex rules of my last two scenarios. Here it's basically a growth restriction and the demand to build 7 wonders. Not complicated per se.
The "it will be easy" idea came from players. Don't believe the hype

 

[Cactus Pete]

Reasonable and fair decision.

I can take it after Ronnie replays. Hope I will quickly get some advice at that point and again soon after I subsequently post a plan.

 

[Htadus]

CP,
we need to plan to get the forest city built asap and then the Iron city.

That way, forest city can build a Monument and then a rax in preparation for chopping a whole bunch of Preats. You know chopping better than I so, no input there.

I recommend a city 2 tiles away from the coast. So when we gift it to Arabia, we can maintain coast connections with future cities taken from Sal.

Our tech should be Math at full speed.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Htadus, I'm not clear on your post. Which city are we planning to gift to Arabia (iron, forest, or a third city two tiles from the coast) and why the gift, more tech stealing?

What about Alpha?

 

[Ronnie1]

I think he is talking about gifting the forest city after we chop all the forests into Praets.

Math > Construction seem the route, except we need to finish Alpha imo so we can steal some techs from either Sal or Darius. I think we should put some EP on Darius just because of proximity.

 

[Jersey Joe]

I think he is talking about gifting the forest city after we chop all the forests into Praets.

Math > Construction seem the route, except we need to finish Alpha imo so we can steal some techs from either Sal or Darius. I think we should put some EP on Darius just because of proximity.

I agree with finishing Alpha then learning Math. We need to get Monarchy both for happiness from wine and HR. We should follow current plan and steal it. With respect to the EPs we need to study the pros and cons of giving Darius some. Htadus made a good point a few posts back about why we should just keep putting all EPs into Sal.

In the test game as of 600bc Sal will not accept Rome as a gift from us so why would he accept a different city? Also, if the forest city is the one Leif suggested to get copper and horses why would we giving it away?

 

[Htadus]

The forest city I was referring is located between the capital and Bagdad and on a none hill tile. We chop as many Math fueled forests as possible toward rax and Preats and actually we can leave the city unprotected once we are done with it and let Sal come and take it while we go after his main cities.

The reason to finish Math now is that we will have need of that sooner to get the war going. We need to hurry before he get LB's.

 

[Jersey Joe]

Reasonable and fair decision.

I can take it after Ronnie replays. Hope I will quickly get some advice at that point and again soon after I subsequently post a plan.

Quick suggestion even before Ronnie plays. Build the Iron city as soon as Caput reaches pop 8 and has 8 archers guarding it. It will take about 10 turns from when we learn IW for Caput to reach pop 8.

Here is where I would build Iron City, it gives 3 forests that could be chopped (not the deer). Chopping the deer is self defeating since it is 4F & 1H with the forest and only 4F without the forest.

Spoiler :

 

[Cactus Pete]

Joe, that city site doesn't include the fish before cultural expansion, which significantly slows the city's growth rate. So there is a tradeoff: There are more forests to chop into units at your site, but we'd need to build a monument and expand before we could maximize the chops. With the fish available immediately, we get faster growth and earlier whipping of units. Have you looked at it that way and still concluded that your site is preferable?

 

[Ronnie1]

1 east is clearly better imo by grabbing the fish asap as CP says.

 

[Jersey Joe]

Joe, that city site doesn't include the fish before cultural expansion, which significantly slows the city's growth rate. So there is a tradeoff: There are more forests to chop into units at your site, but we'd need to build a monument and expand before we could maximize the chops. With the fish available immediately, we get faster growth and earlier whipping of units. Have you looked at it that way and still concluded that your site is preferable?

CP, I had not considered that spot. I was looking ahead to the next border pop which would include the gems for a happy item, I never anticipated immediately needing to chop the forests. Since the gems will not be available for 50-100 turns with only a monument and potentially a religion, your spot looks a lot better. Plus we can ignore needing a border pop so no need to build a monument and pay the maintenance.

With the happy face, we get when we steal Monarchy, iron city can work fish, deer and iron. With a little MM iron city can build 4 Praetorians (Praetori ?) every 16 turns (whip a Praetorian every 5 turns and the overflow from those 3 whippings is enough to build the fourth Prat).

At my original spot I would have suggested whipping a monument then a WB. At the new spot we do not need a border expansion so I would whip a WB > Lighthouse > Granary > Barracks. Each whipped at about the time iron city grows from size 1 to 2. Note, I never chop a forest.
Also, since all the whips occur at size 2, the fish do not need to be improved immediately, so the WB can spend 10-12 turns fog busting to see if there is a sea lane to Caput.

 

[Cactus Pete]

I'm inclined to get the fish netted ASAP.

Ronnie, are you still planning to replay on the 19th?