As the Woodsman 2 Warrior is heading west to visit Saladin, seems like the best direction for a boat would be east.
SGOTM 22 - Xteam
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Ronnie1
Deity
But why a boat particularly? Why not send an Archer for instance, cheaper than a WB, and can at least defend itself, to the east?
The only place the boat could explore easier than a land unit is the fog south then east, but that advantage ends quickly. In the tests I ran where the boat went east it fog busted a few of the tiles by the horse/crab and got killed.
Edit: An archer could explore that section, or maybe a pair of them. The only reason I would like it explored is to see if there really is a southern water route (test game has one) or it we could build one with a fort or 2.
The boat moves two-tiles per turn, the archer only 1.
Htadus
A and L's dad
Two tile movement is the reason for the wb or galley. I whipped the Galley but I think a wb will survive on the map. But it is just that, think.
I am going to be limited on time again during the weekdays until after coming back from work and only for short time. Ronnie, I hope you had a chance to test how fast we can settle 2 cities. I need to do some work tonight right now but may be able to test again tomorrow.
I am going to be limited on time again during the weekdays until after coming back from work and only for short time. Ronnie, I hope you had a chance to test how fast we can settle 2 cities. I need to do some work tonight right now but may be able to test again tomorrow.
And there could be islands.
Ronnie1
Deity
Revised PPP
Goals
Settle jungle city to grab elephants and 2* banana. Tech to Alphabet.
Tech
Alphabet
All research will be binary
Cities
Caput Mundi - Galley > Archer > Settler > Archer > Library
New Rome - Monument > Library
Jungle city - Monument
Workers
1 worker stays at New Rome all the time. 1 works towards jungle city all the time. 3rd floats.
Units
I want to fogbust the Gem site with a warrior if possible, just in case we decide we want to settle it soonish, would hate to have a barb city spring there. I will use 1-2 archers to protect our worker when he is outside borders. Need to build 1 more archer so we can settle city 3.
Espionage
Leave on Sal
Diplomacy
Refuse all requests
Civics
No action planned
Religion
No action planned
Stopping Conditions
- Alphabet is learned, approx T96 (16 turns from now, probably pause in 8-10 turns)
- Any AI declares war on us
- Anything severely unexpected that requires team input
What did I forget?
Goals
Settle jungle city to grab elephants and 2* banana. Tech to Alphabet.
Tech
Alphabet
All research will be binary
Cities
Caput Mundi - Galley > Archer > Settler > Archer > Library
New Rome - Monument > Library
Jungle city - Monument
Workers
1 worker stays at New Rome all the time. 1 works towards jungle city all the time. 3rd floats.
Units
I want to fogbust the Gem site with a warrior if possible, just in case we decide we want to settle it soonish, would hate to have a barb city spring there. I will use 1-2 archers to protect our worker when he is outside borders. Need to build 1 more archer so we can settle city 3.
Espionage
Leave on Sal
Diplomacy
Refuse all requests
Civics
No action planned
Religion
No action planned
Stopping Conditions
- Alphabet is learned, approx T96 (16 turns from now, probably pause in 8-10 turns)
- Any AI declares war on us
- Anything severely unexpected that requires team input
What did I forget?
Can live with the plan.
Green from here.
Green from here.
Htadus
A and L's dad
With all the ivory resources, we are not going to loose out on elephants. I would prioritize the copper city where leif identified.
Consider using two workers to get new Rome's farm and 2 diagonal forests chopped. Also remember that unit supply cost will jump up as we send units out. So alpha may come in a bit late.
I played this game out to settling both copper city and then Ivory. Ivory got delayed by 7 turns because I had a hard time to get it to grow. So I must admit that your idea of building a Granary in the capital is the better idea. I would whip a granary right after settling city 3. I was slow to settle the 3rd city. T96.
I also tested the wb concept. It worked out fine. So may be all we need is a wb. Something to consider.
The capital need a farm built too.
Consider using two workers to get new Rome's farm and 2 diagonal forests chopped. Also remember that unit supply cost will jump up as we send units out. So alpha may come in a bit late.
I played this game out to settling both copper city and then Ivory. Ivory got delayed by 7 turns because I had a hard time to get it to grow. So I must admit that your idea of building a Granary in the capital is the better idea. I would whip a granary right after settling city 3. I was slow to settle the 3rd city. T96.
I also tested the wb concept. It worked out fine. So may be all we need is a wb. Something to consider.
The capital need a farm built too.
Prefer the copper city also, but don't see it as clearly better.
Ronnie1
Deity
Where exactly are you thinking about settling the copper city?
A city that grabs the horse and crab pushes the copper city into a very food poor neighborhood.
A city that grabs the horse and crab pushes the copper city into a very food poor neighborhood.
Ronnie1
Deity
I tend to not whip buildings early in games. I would rather whip a settler or worker and use the overflow to finish the building.
Here's the relevant quote from leif's post: Thinking we only need to decide which resource is most important atm. If we place a city 2 west and 1 south of the copper, on the wooded plains tile, the copper will be in the bfc while the horses will be picked up in the second border expansion. Is that good enough for our needs? One city can claim both?
Whipping a granary early, especially when the food bin is half full, is pretty powerful, in part because an early granary then makes growing pop to whip settlers much faster.
Whipping a granary early, especially when the food bin is half full, is pretty powerful, in part because an early granary then makes growing pop to whip settlers much faster.
Ronnie1
Deity
I missed this as an option. I think I like the jungle city 1st so we can get the happy resource sooner. Caput has tiles to work when we can make them
.Agree here, I will sometimes whip down to 1 pop on a granary. Usually I will try to 2 pop whip a settler or worker from size 4 and use the overflow to complete the granary at size 2.
Ronnie1
Deity
It depends on the game of course.
citizens don't eat, so running into unhappy, building settler while it wears down, then whipping the settler for 2 or 3 pop even works very well. In this game, we get a 50% bonus on settler 
, but not excess food. 2 pop whipping a setter for us is worth 45. We need to stay below 55 for a 2 pop whip or 90 for a 3 pop whip. This requires only 2 turns building for a 2 pop whip in Caput at size 7, or only 1 turn working and avoiding some mines to do a 3 pop whip from size 8.
Ronnie1
Deity
Just to be clear, I have always advocated for Granary in Caput before Galley. We can't build a granary any faster anywhere than starting it right now. My original PPP had Granary next in Caput. Are you suggesting that we build and whip a Granary immediately in Caput?
Even though I mentioned the WB/galley for exploring, I think it should be a secondary goal. It does not have to be built immediately.
I believe that Caput's builds should focus on what enables us to settle cities, learn new technologies, and construct wonders. So I am advocating for building a Granary, Settler and Archers in whatever order settles the jungle city the fastest.
After building the jungle city, I would suggest we build both the gem city and a copper/horse city. Caput could supply the settler for the gem city and Rome could produce the settler for the copper/horse city. If Iron is discovered near by, one of the settlers could be diverted to the iron.
At some point while Caput is growing large enough so we can settle these 2 cities a galley can be built.
I believe that Caput's builds should focus on what enables us to settle cities, learn new technologies, and construct wonders. So I am advocating for building a Granary, Settler and Archers in whatever order settles the jungle city the fastest.
After building the jungle city, I would suggest we build both the gem city and a copper/horse city. Caput could supply the settler for the gem city and Rome could produce the settler for the copper/horse city. If Iron is discovered near by, one of the settlers could be diverted to the iron.
At some point while Caput is growing large enough so we can settle these 2 cities a galley can be built.
Htadus
A and L's dad
No.
Whip the Galley(or wb) next after 1 turn.
Put overflow to a settler to get the hammer boost.
Switch to an archer, finish settler, finish archer and you should have enough pop and archers to settle city 3.
Next build should be the granary.
This is from one of my test games.
Spoiler :
EDIT: @ Joe. workboat or a galley should be a priority to enable more trade commerce contact and potentially getting circumnavigation bonus too. Also, how could you justify building the ivory city when we are unable to improve the surrounding tiles? I know that the copper site does not have too much food but as the saying goes, in a town full of blind people one eyed man is king, the 2 food, 1 commerce and 1 hammer tiles are king over 1 food hammers surrounding the ivory city. Wait for Iron.
Also it is not at some point we want to settle the cities but as soon as possible. And we should be aiming for T100-T110 to have size 10 capital. That is also why we need at least 1 more farm for the capital.
Justification for settling the jungle:
We can settle it with only 6 archers the settler does not need protection.
Ivory city is close to Caput so maintaince cost is less than copper city.
Saladin settled his last 2 cities east of Mecca moving toward us. We should claim some of the land west of us before Sal settles it.
Improved tiles are not an issue for the first 8 turns while we work a mine and get a monument. After the monument we start a granary and switch from mine to banana (banana is same amount of food as any tile the copper city could work). We reach pop 2 and can work banana and mine. Also, around the time we reach pop 2 we should learn alpha. Before we can whip the granary we get a border expansion. Even if we have not stolen IW we can work a second banana and road to the elephants and construct a camp. All of the above get done in the same amount of time whether or not we know IW.
What trades routes can the galley discover if we do not have OB with any of the AIs to the east of us? I base this guess on your saying Darius is in the west and Zara being close to Saladin because he knows Hinduism. How important is a circumnavigation bonus on a pangea map?
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