SGOTM 23 - Turbo Ants

[LowtherCastle]

Are you waiting for feedback to play on?

I'm re-doing the MM for axes for Fredburg. We don't want to delay Thebes any longer than necessary. I'm hoping to play to about Alexa today and end my turnset.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I don't see anyone trading us Masonry until Fred, Alex, or Gandhi techs it, even with GW.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Well I don't think we need to run any more 100% gold. It's either tech or EPs. I'd probably tech Meditation because nobody will give that to us any time soon and we need it for Philo. I would like to wait for Maths for Currency. Not going to get Currency from Hatty though. Too much else to steal from her, and it shouldn't wait.

Right, with CaptureGold we'll have enough to last us to Currency, I hope, so there's no big hurry to get Currency. Meditation we can get any time before Philo, right? Since we need the eps anyway and more will make Math even cheaper, maybe we should just run 100% eps. That will also get us to investigate city, as WT pointed out.

 

[Mitchum]

Yes on 100% EP slider. I was just thinking about that while cleaning the pool.

 

[ZPV]

Right, with CaptureGold we'll have enough to last us to Currency, I hope, so there's no big hurry to get Currency. Meditation we can get any time before Philo, right? Since we need the eps anyway and more will make Math even cheaper, maybe we should just run 100% eps. That will also get us to investigate city, as WT pointed out.

I'm happy enough with 100% EPs. Shame we can't get hold of Masonry, so we can trade for Monotheism before we DoW Hatty. We'll want to run OrgRel soon enough.

Currency is also for +1 trade route per city, which is not inconsequential so I don't want it to be at the back of the queue, but I also want Construction, CoL, Monotheism, etc and I think our economic output will outpace the 5-turn waiting cycles for espionage.

 

[Pollina]

There's a good chance that Stalin finishes GW next turn or in 2 turns. Or is there anything else he could be building (>126h)? We should be able to trade for Masonry once GW is gone.

 

[Mitchum]

Do AIs still trade Masonry when the GLH hasn't been built yet? I guess that wonder is officially tied to Sailing.

 

[LowtherCastle]

New MM:

Spoiler :

This schedules 3 axes for Fredburg T74, so we can re-DoW Hatty for Thebes ~T75. The one drawback is that I sacrificed the earlier second spy.

I figure we'll need to run spies in both CEB and FC (to erase whip unhappiness) for the duration of Hatty tech stealing, so that will accelerate that until we're done.

Have a look. I'll try to play to the capture of Alexa tonight.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Shame we can't get hold of Masonry, so we can trade for Monotheism before we DoW Hatty. We'll want to run OrgRel soon enough.

I assume we'll get it by the time we capture Thebes, then revolt to Rep+OR. Also, I assume we'll get Mono from Mao.

 

[WastinTime]

Is Jesus culture only being used to make our city not revolt and not lose buildings or population?
Or are we trying to get the spy discount? Cus then we need 1t of anarchy for Christianity then.

And when it comes to erasing whip anger in CEB and FC, we need culture in each city.

Did we get an auto-spread religion yet?

 

[ZPV]

I assume we'll get it by the time we capture Thebes, then revolt to Rep+OR. Also, I assume we'll get Mono from Mao.

Mao is in WFYABTA mode. Joao is a better bet if he researches it.

 

[ZPV]

Is Jesus culture only being used to make our city not revolt and not lose buildings or population?
Or are we trying to get the spy discount? Cus then we need 1t of anarchy for Christianity then.

And when it comes to erasing whip anger in CEB and FC, we need culture in each city.

Did we get an auto-spread religion yet?

We need the culture from Jesus for the culture spy discount. Much bigger than the religion one.

The nearest holy city we aren't at war with is Mecca. Autospread is fairly unlikely at this distance, and we haven't had a trade connection for that long.

 

[WastinTime]

so it's probably best to stay in No Religion. I still have hope for an auto-spread. If we take Christian, then the autospread doesn't give us any culture.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Is Jesus culture only being used to make our city not revolt and not lose buildings or population?
Or are we trying to get the spy discount? Cus then we need 1t of anarchy for Christianity then.

For now it's the 50% culture discount. For more expensive techs, it becomes a factor.

Spreading to CEB is a pita. Maybe we should just whip a monastery in Paris. Then we don't need OR or a religion. Christianity also stops our boarder expansion in Thebes, Alexa and beyond. This tech stealing is getting more and more expensive.

Or maybe just use FC after all. With a galley in the vicinity we can make it every 5t.

.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Mao is in WFYABTA mode.

Crap. That fast? Hatty will still tech trade when Annoyed, right? Maybe between wars.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I also want Construction, CoL, Monotheism, etc and I think our economic output will outpace the 5-turn waiting cycles for espionage.

What is our realistic urgency?

T71 Math
T79 Construction (using the first spy)
T85 CoL
T91 Philosophy

Is that far too slow? Construction is probably the most painful wait. We could also use captured cities, such as Athens to double up our cycles.

I could speed up the second attempt to T77 but it likely delays Fredburg+Thebes a turn or two. We could have T74 in CEB if we have some culture there. Build a disposable monument? Good joke on WT.

The benefit of not hurrying is that we might get the Holy City discount for CoL+Philo. That wouldn't hurt. How soon do we need them?

 

[ZPV]

What is our realistic urgency?

T71 Math
T79 Construction (using the first spy)
T85 CoL
T91 Philosophy

Is that far too slow? Construction is probably the most painful wait. We could also use captured cities, such as Athens to double up our cycles.

I could speed up the second attempt to T77 but it likely delays Fredburg+Thebes a turn or two. We could have T74 in CEB if we have some culture there. Build a disposable monument? Good joke on WT.

The benefit of not hurrying is that we might get the Holy City discount for CoL+Philo. That wouldn't hurt. How soon do we need them?

I'm looking at CoL for Civil Service, and to start research on that right after Currency.

How long does it take us to research Currency and acquire enough EPs to steal all four techs? That's the date I'd like to steal CoL. Then we'd be able to revolt to Buro+Pacifism at the same time (although maybe that's too early and we'd still need OR to spread Christianity around).

 

[LowtherCastle]

T67 MM v2:

Spoiler :

By pushing the Thebes DoW from T74 to T75, we can (hopefully) capture/gift Fredburg + gift CEB + steal Constr or CoL + re-capture CEB + DoW and land at Thebes.

Then FC would be ready to steal the next tech on T79. Then T84/85. This is all risky of course, since we've only got something like 85% odds using just one 50% spy each time. So it makes sense for us to try to compress the timeline.

I think I'll be playing soon unless some objection arises from the deep silence of Europe or Crazy Cali.

 

[LowtherCastle]

PPP T67 - T??

Monitor Hatty's data
Check Tech and Resource trades each turn
100% eps on Hatty until T71
Cancel copper to Gandhi on T69
Warrior 3 boards Galley 3 at FC-se on T70 (will re-capture FC on T71)

 

[LowtherCastle]

Turnset Report T67 -

T67 1320BC
Hatty 30f, 4h, 161gnp, Constr(2)
Alexa pop4, 1189c, 43h, Hamlet(5t), Cottage(8t), Cottage(4t), Cottage(10t), +6 sci-turns total!!
Thebes pop7, 1129c, 14h, -1 artist-turn!

IT
Stalin completes the Great Wall! It's crazy, you should see it.
Fred completes Masonry, Churchill will trade it. That was lucky.
Hatty relents and puts 6eps on us.

T68 1280BC
We trade HBR to Churchill for Masonry, which Pleases him.

Hatty 30f, 4h, 161gnp, Constr(1)
Alexa pop4, 1212c, 45h, Hamlet(4t), Cottage(8t), Cottage(3t), Cottage(10t), +8 sci-turns total!!
Thebes pop7, 1158c, 26h, -2 artist-turns total!

Thebes switched back to some incomplete build with 26h in it now. Hm.

IT
Alexa pops a GS!
Hatty will trade Mono.
Darius will trade corn.

T69 1240BC
We can see inside Hatty's cities. Thebes is building a settler(10t), Alexa, granary 47/51h (w/o Philo yet).
Our scout spots a tile of brown culture beyond the mountain range at Persepolis-4n3e. He goes ne and sees 3 more tiles, 2 on the mountains and now it's clear we'll meet the Mongols(?) next turn. But they're walled off.

Esponage cost with Hatty is down to 97%.

We cancel our copper for crabs deal with Gandhi.
We trade Darius fish for corn.

IT
Oh crap. I forget to gift Hatty Alpha and she settles the GS. I can't believe it. Sorry folks. Really, really sorry. Arggh..

Okay, that's it. Turnset over. UPLOADED.

Here is your Session Turn Log from 1320 BC to 1200 BC:

Spoiler :

Turn 67, 1320 BC: Stalin has completed The Great Wall!

Turn 68, 1280 BC: Cow-E-Bunga has grown to size 4.
Turn 68, 1280 BC: Cow-E-Bunga can hurry Spy for 2⇴ with 31ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 30 turns.
Turn 68, 1280 BC: Churchill will trade Masonry
Turn 68, 1280 BC: Alexander won't trade Clam
Turn 68, 1280 BC: You have discovered Masonry!
Turn 68, 1280 BC: Paris will grow to size 6 on the next turn.
Turn 68, 1280 BC: Stone Quarry will grow to size 3 on the next turn.
Turn 68, 1280 BC: You have trained a Spy in Cow-E-Bunga. Work has now begun on a Horse Archer.
Turn 68, 1280 BC: Al-Razi (Great Scientist) has been born in Alexandria (Hatshepsut)!

Turn 69, 1240 BC: Paris has grown to size 6.
Turn 69, 1240 BC: FurCity can hurry Galley for 1⇴ with 2ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 30 turns.
Turn 69, 1240 BC: Stone Quarry has grown to size 3.
Turn 69, 1240 BC: Stone Quarry can hurry Granary for 1⇴ with 6ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 69, 1240 BC: Hatshepsut will trade Monotheism
Turn 69, 1240 BC: Darius I will trade Corn
Turn 69, 1240 BC: FurCity will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
Turn 69, 1240 BC: Cow-E-Bunga will grow to size 3 on the next turn.
Turn 69, 1240 BC: Deal Canceled: Copper to Gandhi for Crab
Turn 69, 1240 BC: Saladin has founded Damascus in a distant land.

Turn 70, 1200 BC: Cow-E-Bunga has grown to size 3.
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Cow-E-Bunga can hurry Horse Archer for 1⇴ with 31ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 38 turns.
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Churchill will trade Fish
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Gandhi will trade Crab
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Mehmed II will trade Fish
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Joao II will trade Fish
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Hatshepsut will trade Fish
Turn 70, 1200 BC: Stalin will trade Fish