SGOTM 23 - Unallocated

Sun Tzu Wu · Jul 24, 2016

Well, where should we use our Settler, if not on the NW City site? I agree that getting the Fish in our culture could be though, but it is in Churchill's 3rd ring, whereas it would be in ring 1 of the NW City site. So maybe not too hard to get thd Fish in out culture.

haphazard1 · Jul 24, 2016

Is the NW site worth it without the fish? Churchill has enough culture accumulated that it would likely be a long time before we could take the tile away from him. And we wouold have to commit to working hard to get culture into the city to eventually get it. I don't think it is worth it.

Stalin grabbing Frankfurt...well, this is the price of delaying Frederic's destruction to get Metal Casting. Annoying, but mostly because it costs us a better city that could have been. It does mean we do not get the iron, though. At one point Churchill had iron available for trade, and needed copper -- would he trade iron for copper? We will need some eventually.

ikotomi · Jul 24, 2016

One N of the S city location would let us work fish and help grow cottages in capital. I'd rather than the NW city, and there are plenty of tiles to share.

Sun Tzu Wu · Jul 24, 2016

Agreed, 1-N of the S City location looks fine; I will amend the PPP to make it so. Thanks!

Sun Tzu Wu · Jul 24, 2016

Results - 0118 - 0075 AD:

Darius I World Map + 30W for World Map

Settled Lyons 1-N of the S City site.

Double Fish 1P whipped Work Boat.

Sun Tzu Wu · Jul 24, 2016

Results - 0119 - 0100 AD:

Hamburg 1P whipped Barracks.

Sun Tzu Wu · Jul 24, 2016

Results - 0120 - 0125 AD:

Galley defeated Barbarian Galley attack (1.6 Str remaining).

Cologne - Taoism spread

Orleans 2P whipped Forge

Berlin 3P whipped Forge

Persepolis (Darius I) completed Philosophy (Toaism).

Saladin Incense for Cow

Mehmed II World Map +15W for World Map

haphazard1 · Jul 24, 2016

Sun Tzu Wu said:
Results - 0120 - 0125 AD:

Galley defeated Barbarian Galley attack (1.6 Str remaining).

Where did this occur? Barb galleys can be a pain, given the near-even odds of almost all early naval battles. If there is a possible spawn point for such barb galleys we will continue to be attacked, and may need to think about investing in a trireme to defend our fishing boats.

Overall the results sound good. :thumbsup:

Sun Tzu Wu · Jul 24, 2016

Results - 0121 - 150 AD:

Lyons - Confucianism spread

Jerusalem - 5 Catapults do not reduce cultural defense even a single degree; defense is still 150%!

Uploading to SGOTM Server.

Sun Tzu Wu · Jul 24, 2016

haphazard1 said:
Where did this occur? Barb galleys can be a pain, given the near-even odds of almost all early naval battles. If there is a possible spawn point for such barb galleys we will continue to be attacked, and may need to think about investing in a trireme to defend our fishing boats.

Overall the results sound good.

This attack occurred 1-SW of Lisbon, while moving the Galley to our SE shore. So it's not our problem until we capture Lisbon from Joao II.

Sun Tzu Wu · Jul 24, 2016

I will end my turn set now that we see that cultural defense of Jerusalem can't be reduced by Catapults; we need to use World Builder to simulate how we can defeat Jerusalem with fixed cultural defense of 150%.

Here is your Session Turn Log from 50 BC to 150 AD:

Spoiler :

Complete autolog.txt file content:

Spoiler :

haphazard1 · Jul 25, 2016

Interesting.... I seem to recall encountering defenses like this in another game (do not remember which one, unfortunately); it was due to the WB stacking of defensive buildings. Will definitely need to be simulated to see if we can reduce them. If not, we should probably bypass the city rather than take heavy losses against that kind of defensive bonus.

Thanks for the note on the barb galley.

Yes, should be Joao's problem in that case.

Sun Tzu Wu · Jul 25, 2016

In World Builder, I believe its possible to define cultural defense that can not be reduced, but I don't know how its done. We will need to barrage Jerusalem with multiple Catapults at 150% static defense. We just need to know how many Catapults we need to reduce the defenders enough that they can be easily killed. I do not like the idea of bypassing Jerusalem.

With only 4 Archers with maximum CG2 promotion, it should not take many Catapults to reduce their strength enough so our HAs can kill them. We just need to simulate the battle in WB enough times to get a likely worse case number of Catapults needed to be sure of capturing Jerusalem.

We also need to simulate an attack with Musketeers which should ignore fortifications; I'm not sure they will ignore the 150% cultural defense of Jerusalem, since it is not bombard-able.

Sun Tzu Wu · Jul 25, 2016

We should plan to steal many technologies from Hatshepsut. We can get a good Espionage discount by controlling the Holy City of our religion. This means controlling either Jerusalem for Christianity or Mecca for Islam. If we go with Christianity for our espionage stealing, we need to spread Christianity to Thebes for a -40% espionage discount. If we go with Islam, we get a maximum of -25% with the Holy City Mecca; we can increase this to -40% by switching Hatshepsut to a religion other than Islam.

Sun Tzu Wu · Jul 25, 2016

We will complete Gunpowder in 2t. Any city with 4P or more should complete Barracks in the next 2t and whip Musketeers after we complete Gunpowder.

haphazard1 · Jul 25, 2016

What do we do with our musketeers as we start producing them? Where do we start our glorious conquest?

We have some HAs and catapults already, once we get a handful of musketeers we can probably begin attacking. More musketeers can join the main force as they are produced -- the move 2 and roads will help a lot with bringing up new units.

So, where to start? Put another way, which AI leader is next? :evil:

Sun Tzu Wu · Jul 25, 2016

I created a WB test game save. See attached file.

The Barbarian city has 150% walls/castle/citadel defense; nothing special was needed to make bombards ineffective.

None of our units have promotions; this will help to illustrate the worst case combat. You can add promotions in WB to help model things better.

Sun Tzu Wu · Jul 25, 2016

The Barbarian city in the WB test save game has 80% Cultural Defense, but the city in SGTOM-23 has only 60% Cultural Defense, so the Musketeer attacks will be significantly harder in the test than in the actual game. To correct, enter WB and change the culture from 5000 to 500.

Sun Tzu Wu · Jul 25, 2016

From my testing, we should easily defeat Jerusalem with 5 Catapults and 10 Horse Archers. We will lose 4-5 Catapults and probably 2-3 HAs at most. We probably won't use Catapults with Musketeers for a while, so that should be ok. After the AIs have several longbowmen per city, we will probably need some sort of siege units or spies.

Sun Tzu Wu · Jul 25, 2016

Correcting Cult Defense to 60% (500 Culture) and adding C1 to Musketeers, attacking without siege gives our Musketeer C1 just over 61% attack success and 3 XP. Expected losses are just 1-2 Musketeers. Even an unpromoted Musketeer will have just over 57% odds of success.

Thus we may want to bypass Jerusalem with our Catapults and Horse Archers, sending them directly to Thebes. Our newly whipped Musketeers can handle Jerusalem and then move on to Mecca.

SGOTM 23 - Unallocated

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