The reason why I suggested a Worker is because it is a Tundra square, so it will take longer to improve--13 turns (12 turns + 1 turn to move to that square).
By getting a second Worker right away, we can shave off 2 turns, giving us +2 turns of Happiness, which is something that we need as soon as possible.
We don't have boats to spare to send another Worker over to there, so building one there is our next best bet.
Meanwhile, a Work Boat could be built anywhere, so after a Worker, that City should start on its Granary, letting somewhere else send it a Work Boat.
It's unfortunate to have to anger her, but that was the right call. It's a tech that we really don't want her getting--War Chariots are bad enough, but at the rate that she's teching, she'll have Guilds before we get to her, and it would be unfortunate if we had handed her the remaining key to building Knights.
That's important news to hear. All the more reason to try to get a Settler or two near to Hatty, not only to block her in, but also to try to get her to spread that Religion to us, as she's one of the few AIs who will spread a Religion even when she doesn't own the Holy City.
EDIT: Upon further reflection, let's settle ON TOP OF that Silver Resource. We really could use the Happiness now instead of in 13 - 2 = 11 turns (actually in 14 - 2 = 12 turns, counting landing the Worker).
A TunH Silver Resource is reasonably junky, giving only 2 Hammers and 5 Commerce. That's okay, but not nearly as nice as getting +1 Happy citizen for our core Cities, which means more production and Commerce in the short term. Even +1 whipped Settler from the extra production for another coastal City, giving us 4 more Trade Routes, would earn us 8 Commerce from the Trade Routes alone. How often do Desert Incense squares get worked? Very rarely. This square is barely better than that, so settling on it looks like the better play.
We won't lose any Resources this way, we'll pick up an extra Whale in our big fat cross, and by the time that we have spare production somewhere for a Work Boat, our Cultural Borders will have already expanded over top of the Fish.
EDIT: Upon further reflection, let's settle ON TOP OF that Silver Resource. We really could use the Happiness now instead of in 13 - 2 = 11 turns (actually in 14 - 2 = 12 turns, counting landing the Worker).
A TunH Silver Resource is reasonably junky, giving only 2 Hammers and 5 Commerce. That's okay, but not nearly as nice as getting +1 Happy citizen for our core Cities, which means more production and Commerce in the short term. Even +1 whipped Settler from the extra production for another coastal City, giving us 4 more Trade Routes, would earn us 8 Commerce from the Trade Routes alone. How often do Desert Incense squares get worked? Very rarely. This square is barely better than that, so settling on it looks like the better play.
We won't lose any Resources this way, we'll pick up an extra Whale in our big fat cross, and by the time that we have spare production somewhere for a Work Boat, our Cultural Borders will have already expanded over top of the Fish.
Will settle on silver -- smart call -- camp the deer and build a granary. Extra forests in the city too.
BTW, seems like you've left out chariot 3 (in Berlin) from your plan. Sure we'll find good use for him, though.
"Edit I think that Hattie's expansion must be hindered by terrain (e.g. Sahara Desert) and possibly another AI. Why hasn't she conquered Alex?" I think she's just a girlie builder.
The extra Forests mean that it would help to build a second Worker there, to have enough Workers to Chop out a Granary efficiently. The ideal time to complete a Granary is when we are at Size 1 with a half-full foodbox. Anyway, we can figure it out in the next turnset.
Well, he's already in the area, so it seemed kind of silly to send him on a boat. I was thinking that he'd probably replace the idea of having Scouts to the east of Hamburg, perhaps winning a fight or at least wounding an Axeman or Spearman that leaves Hamburg to attack him. But, for now, he can just keep an eye on Frederick's forces, as you've been doing.
Do we have time to try to locate Frederick's final City along his Road network?
Yes, I meant the western Silver, which was updated in the PPP. Correct, we'd need Optics to get the Happiness from a Whale Resource, which we'll probably only get if Hatty goes for it, but it's at least +1 Food before Whaling Boats, giving an extra +1 H and +2 C with a Whaling Boat.
That situation is going to make the Unit logistics a bit harder to plan, since the "easy version" of the plan plan called for as many Galleys as possible arriving in Orleans by Turn 82. We're just going to have to see if we can make do with the situation.
The Barb Archer isn't likely to come into our Cultural Borders, since there probably aren't enough Barb Units in the world to do so, so waiting for him to attack us within our Cultural Borders may not work. But, I'm also not sure enough for us to take the risk of letting him move to 1 SE of our City, where he'd be on 75% defensive terrain and would raze our City if our Horse Archer couldn't kill him at 90% odds of defeating the Barb Archer.
The Barb Archer definitely won't go in Stalin's Cultural Borders, since The Great Wall keeps the Barb Archer out of Stalin's Cultural Borders.
If the Barb Archer moves 1 S Grassland next turn, we'll be in business and can attack and kill off the Barb Archer before moving to the "T14 Wolf" sign, then boarding Galley 2.
If the Barb Archer moves 1 E GH Deer For, we can follow him 1 E GH For, leaving him nowhere to go but to attack us or to move 1 SW onto the Grassland that is 1 SE of the Iron, still giving us time to attack the Barb Archer and load onto Galley 2 on Turn 84.
If the Barb Archer moves 1 SW GH For, I suppose that our only safe play is to stay on the Iron for another turn and hope that the Barb Archer moves to a Grassland square on the following turn.
And, no, we don't have time for Galley 2 to go and grab the new Worker that you scored by Nottingham.
In the future, we can keep an eye on that TunH Sheep square by hovering over that square with our mouse every few turns to see if it still says "Build a Road: 2 Turns." If that number 2 switches to 1 (meaning that the Road is being worked on), or if that hover text goes away (meaning that the Road got completed), either case will mean that Churchill has a new Worker there.
After Worker 4 Chops at 1 NW of London, it could move to 1 NE of York and Chop there. Meanwhile, the York-built Worker could move to the GH For that is adjacent to the Fish plus 2 Gems Resources where we'll settle the new City and Chop the Forest there for 10 Hammers going into York.
The newly-captured Worker is just going to have to slowly make his way through the Forests, arriving on the easternmost Gem to help with Roading and Chopping it.
In the medium term, once Churchill has settled another City off-continent (perhaps a City gifted by us later in the northern Tundra area), we can raze and resettle Nottingham, then gift York to Joao after York has been clear-cut.
In the short term, we still need to decide whether or not to make Peace with Churchill for Mysticism. Given the EP discounts that we can get on Hatty, the cost of spending our Commerce to self-tech Mysticism is roughly the cost of stealing 1 more tech from Hatty that costs about 4 times the amount of Flasks, so the less techs that we need to self-tech after Currency, the better.
If we make Peace with Churchill now, our newly-captured Worker will teleport out of Churchill's Cultural Borders, earning us a couple of Worker turns.
The other advantage of Peace with Churchill now is that we would be able to trade Meditation from Joao on the turn that we learn Currency, allowing us to dump Flasks into Priesthood at a 0% Science Rate (and a 100% Espionage Rate) immediately.
With us having stolen Churchill's Worker, we might as well take Peace now, to encourage him to build peacefully, instead of spamming Swordsmen.
Our Scout has revealed Yakutsk, but it's on the southern coast of Scandinavia, which won't help us to maintain Trade Routes with Stalin when we declare war on Frederick, since Hamburg's Culture blocks the southern coast's water. Ideally, we'll map out a path along the coast of northern Scandinavia to reveal one of Stalin's Cities. Given the current visibility of Stalin's Cities, if the capture of Hamburg goes smoothly, we should only lose 1 turn of Trade Routes with Stalin, which is worth about 10 Commerce per turn to our empire, so let's hope that we can either reveal a path along the northern coast or else don't see City Walls get built in Hamburg.
Thebes is Size 10 with both The Pyramids and The Apostolic Palace in it. If we look through the Event Log, there was a Great Engineer created the turn prior, so Hatty could still be building other Wonders (hopefully not The Hanging Gardens) and would have just switched to building The Apostolic Palace for 1 turn in order to complete it with her Great Engineer before switching back to whatever she was building previously.
I would suggest avoiding meeting Mehmed II/Suleiman, even though we know that his Cultural Borders are just a bit south of Chariot 3.
Meeting such an AI before we have a solid army ready is likely to just cause us trouble:
i. An AI who has met us can be bribed into war against us (say, by Hatty when we declare war on her), whereas an AI who hasn't met us can't be bribed to attack us
ii. An AI who has met us can start to accumulate negative Diplo with us for us refusing to do what the AI wants us to do
iii. An AI who has met us will be more likely to piggyback off of our tech research, meaning facing a potentially more technologically-advanced AI when we finally do have an army to go after Istanbul (assuming that Istanbul is in the Ottoman Empire).
Our Chariot 3 could probably do:
Turn 82 Move 1 NE G Wheat > 1 NE G? For (to reveal the area around Munich, to see if we'd be better off razing it and resettling a City on the coast)
Turn 83 Move 1 SW G Wheat > 1 SW Munich > 1 W G Cottage Road (see what's in Berlin)
Turn 84 (see what's in Berlin) > move to 2 E of Hamburg
Turn 85 Have its movement points available to it in case we need to move it somewhere on the turn where we declare war (say, if there's an Axeman within striking range that we could snipe)
As for Argent, what we could do is start on a Worker while working the GH Iron square, giving us 4 Hammers per turn from that Iron square (the Tundra Deer would only give us 3 Hammers per turn when building a Worker). Worker 3 could Chop the TunH For where he's standing, giving us that Forest after 5 turns, thus giving us our second Worker in 8 turns.
Then, we'd have 2 Workers to improve the Deer, allowing us to improve it 2 turns faster with the help of the Argent-built Worker. We'd then grow reasonably quickly to Size 2 off of the Deer while temporarily building a Granary, while both Workers each Chop a Forest into our Granary.
EP Values
Hatty 16 (+13 over 4 turns) / 248
Stalin 17 / 0
Frederick 156 / 0
Joao 55 (+1 per turn) / 0
Churchill 226 (about +1 per turn but then he spent a bunch on us!) / 363
Alex 22 / 0
875 BC: "The secrets of Horseback Riding were stolen by enemy infiltrators!"
Guess who!
AI Cities' Production
Berlin Just completed a build item
Hamburg 23 H
Munich 28 H
Cologne 5 H
Nottingham 6 H
Lisbon Just completed a build item
Oporto 33 H
Yakutsk 1 H
Munich has a Granary.
I don't see any new Buildings in either of Berlin or Hamburg.
Stalin has unfortunately met Alex, with Stalin being Pleased toward Alex and Alex being Cautious toward Stalin.
We can have the newly-captured Worker plan to Chop the GH For where we plan to settle our next City, allowing us to Chop the Forest just before settling there.
We should still be on track for our attack with careful logistics of our Units, launching some of our boats from Orleans' Fish and only launching 2 boats from within Orleans itself
Suggested PPP
Diplo Policy
Christianity? No
Stop trading with another AI? No
Give a Resource? Yes (There isn't an enforced 10 turns of Peace for saying yes)
Peace deal or Open Borders? No--we should be the ones to decide when these deals happen
Give Horseback Riding? No
Give a Tech other than Horseback Riding? No to Frederick (since we'll be attacking him soon), yes to anyone else
Join a war? No
Trade a tech for a tech and/or Gold? No--let's discuss tech trades and put them in a PPP
Reasons for stopping
We spot a Galley of Churchill's while we're at war with him
We meet a new AI
One of our Cities is threatened
Something in the plan sounds wrong
Turn 81, 850 BC
EDIT: Paris switches to building its Horse Archer and queues up a Chariot to be built after the Horse Archer EDIT: Paris 2-pop-whips its Horse Archer EDIT: Paris works: Wheat, Deer, and Copper EDIT: XO Cognac switches Stone -> Fur EDIT: (XO Cognac still builds a Chariot)
Argent switches to building a Worker
Confirm that Argent is automatically working the Iron
Make Get Mysticism + Peace from Churchill
Axeman 4 (1 SW of Orleans) boards Galley 3 (1 W of Orleans)
Chariot 4 (in Paris) boards Galley 3 (1 W of Orleans)
Galley 3 (with Axeman 4 and Chariot 4 aboard) moves 2 NE to Orleans' Fish
Select the new Worker in England and number him "5" (Ctrl + 5)
Turn 82
EDIT: Paris completes Horse Archer -> builds Chariot EDIT: XO Cognac completes Chariot -> builds Spy (to capture the overflow Hammers into a Spy)
Lyons completes Chariot -> builds Galley
York completes Worker -> builds Settler
Increase our Espionage Rate so that we'll still learn Currency this turn (maybe a 20% Science Rate and an 80% Espionage Rate?)
EDIT: Open Borders with Churchill if he is willing to do so
EDIT: Paris switches Wheat to Fur in order to complete its Chariot this turn (if we did the math correctly) EDIT: XO Cognac should have automatically switched to working the Stone when the Fur was stolen
Worker 2 moves 1 NE GH Riv Wine
Worker 3 Chops the TunH For (1 SW of Argent)
Worker 4 finishes the Chop at 1 NW of London
Worker 5 moves toward the GH For where we'll settle Gems City (1 E of the Fish that is to the north of York)
Select the Worker in York and number him "6"
Worker 6 moves 1 NE G For (1 NE of York)
Galley 2 moves S > SE (to SW + S of Argent, on the Fish)
Galley 1 moves 2 S > SW (to NE + N of Orleans' Fish)
Galley 4 moves to Orleans' Fish
Galley 3's Axeman 4 loads into Galley 4
Galley 3's Chariot 4 unloads 1 SE G Riv (1 W of Cologne)
Galley 3, when it is empty of Units, moves into Orleans
Galley 5 moves into Orleans
Chariot 2 unloads in Orleans and moves NE G Riv > E G Riv (1 W of Cologne)
Chariot 1 unloads in Orleans and moves NE G Riv > E G Riv (1 W of Cologne)
Horse Archer 5 (in Paris) moves into Orleans
XO Cognac's Chariot moves into Paris
Lyons' Chariot moves into Paris
Horse Archer 4 in Scandinavia:
i. If the Barb Archer went 1 S G, attack it then move to the GH For that is 1 S of the Iron
ii. If the Barb Archer went 1 E GH Deer For, move 1 E GH For
iii. If the Barb Archer went 1 SW GH For, stay in place
Scout heads NE TunH Deer For then eastward toward Stalin
Axeman 3 can move to the GH For where we'll settle Gems City (1 E of the Fish to the north of York) to temporarily spawn-bust for a turn
EDIT: Spy 2 moves to Lyons, for keeping open the possibility of gifting that City to steal Monarchy
Chariot 3 moves 1 NE G Wheat Road > 1 NE G? For
Turn 83
London completes Granary -> builds Lighthouse (as a placeholder, until we get Meditation in the next turnset)
Espionage Rate 100%
EDIT: Paris should be at Size 4, being able to work: Wheat, Deer, Copper, and Fur EDIT: XO Cognac switches to building a Settler
Orleans switches to the Horse Archer and 2-pop-whips it (it should actually be able to participate in the attack on Hamburg)
Orleans works: Fish and Cow
York steals London's Stone
York works: Fish and Stone
London should be automatically working: Fish, Horse, and Fur
Galley 1 moves to Orleans' Fish
Horse Archer 5 (in Orleans) moves 1 NE G > 1 N Orleans Fish to board a Galley there
Paris' Horse Archer moves into Orleans and boards a Galley there
The two Chariots in Paris move into Orleans and board a Galley there
Worker 1 builds a Road on the G Stone
Worker 2 builds a Mine on the GH Riv Wine
Worker 4 moves to the G For Road that is 1 E of York and Chops
Worker 5 moves toward the GH For where we'll settle Gems City (1 E of the Fish that is to the north of York)
Worker 6 Chops the G For at 1 NE of York
Chariot 3 moves 1 SW G Wheat Road > 1 SW Munich > 1 W G Cottage Road (to reveal what's in Berlin)
Axeman 3 can head toward London (Worker 6 will have taken over the spawn-busting duty, making Axeman 3 best used as a temporary Military Police Unit in London)
Scout heads eastward toward Stalin
EDIT: Spy 2 continues to head toward Lyons
Let's figure out the remaining Unit logistics as part of the next turnset
Spoilerprevious PPP :
Suggested PPP
Diplo Policy
Christianity? No
Stop trading with another AI? No
Give a Resource? Yes (There isn't an enforced 10 turns of Peace for saying yes)
Peace deal or Open Borders? No--we should be the ones to decide when these deals happen
Give Horseback Riding? No
Give a Tech other than Horseback Riding? No to Frederick (since we'll be attacking him soon), yes to anyone else
Join a war? No
Trade a tech for a tech and/or Gold? No--let's discuss tech trades and put them in a PPP
Reasons for stopping
We spot a Galley of Churchill's while we're at war with him
We meet a new AI
One of our Cities is threatened
Something in the plan sounds wrong
Turn 81, 850 BC
EDIT: Paris switches to building a Spy
Argent switches to building a Worker
Confirm that Argent is automatically working the Iron
Make Get Mysticism + Peace from Churchill
Axeman 4 (1 SW of Orleans) boards Galley 3 (1 W of Orleans)
Chariot 4 (in Paris) boards Galley 3 (1 W of Orleans)
Galley 3 (with Axeman 4 and Chariot 4 aboard) moves 2 NE to Orleans' Fish
Select the new Worker in England and number him "5" (Ctrl + 5)
Turn 82
XO Cognac completes Chariot -> builds Settler
Lyons completes Chariot -> builds Galley
York completes Worker -> builds Settler
Paris switches to a Horse Archer and 2-pop-whips it
XO Cognac steals the Copper (it's 1 more Hammer than the Stone)
Increase our Espionage Rate so that we'll still learn Currency this turn (maybe a 20% Science Rate and an 80% Espionage Rate?)
EDIT: Open Borders with Churchill if he is willing to do so
Worker 2 moves 1 NE GH Riv Wine
Worker 3 Chops the TunH For (1 SW of Argent)
Worker 4 finishes the Chop at 1 NW of London
Worker 5 moves toward the GH For where we'll settle Gems City (1 E of the Fish that is to the north of York)
Select the Worker in York and number him "6"
Worker 6 moves 1 NE G For (1 NE of York)
Galley 2 moves S > SE (to SW + S of Argent, on the Fish)
Galley 1 moves 2 S > SW (to NE + N of Orleans' Fish)
Galley 4 moves to Orleans' Fish
Galley 3's Axeman 4 loads into Galley 4
Galley 3's Chariot 4 unloads 1 SE G Riv (1 W of Cologne)
Galley 3, when it is empty of Units, moves into Orleans
Galley 5 moves into Orleans
Chariot 2 unloads in Orleans and moves NE G Riv > E G Riv (1 W of Cologne)
Chariot 1 unloads in Orleans and moves NE G Riv > E G Riv (1 W of Cologne)
Horse Archer 5 (in Paris) moves into Orleans
XO Cognac's Chariot moves into Paris
Lyons' Chariot moves into Paris
Horse Archer 4 in Scandinavia:
i. If the Barb Archer went 1 S G, attack it then move to the GH For that is 1 S of the Iron
ii. If the Barb Archer went 1 E GH Deer For, move 1 E GH For
iii. If the Barb Archer went 1 SW GH For, stay in place
Scout heads NE TunH Deer For then eastward toward Stalin
Axeman 3 can move to the GH For where we'll settle Gems City (1 E of the Fish to the north of York) to temporarily spawn-bust for a turn
Spy 3 moves to 3 S of Paris
Chariot 3 moves 1 NE G Wheat Road > 1 NE G? For
Turn 83
London completes Granary -> builds Lighthouse
Espionage Rate 100%
Orleans switches to the Horse Archer and 2-pop-whips it (it should actually be able to participate in the attack on Hamburg)
Orleans works: Fish and Cow
York steals London's Stone
York works: Fish and Stone
London should be automatically working: Fish, Horse, and Fur
Galley 1 moves to Orleans' Fish
Horse Archer 5 (in Orleans) moves 1 NE G > 1 N Orleans Fish to board a Galley there
Paris' Horse Archer moves into Orleans and boards a Galley there
The two Chariots in Paris move into Orleans and board a Galley there
Worker 1 builds a Road on the G Stone
Worker 2 builds a Mine on the GH Riv Wine
Worker 4 moves to the G For Road that is 1 E of York and Chops
Worker 5 moves toward the GH For where we'll settle Gems City (1 E of the Fish that is to the north of York)
Worker 6 Chops the G For at 1 NE of York
Chariot 3 moves 1 SW G Wheat Road > 1 SW Munich > 1 W G Cottage Road (to reveal what's in Berlin)
Axeman 3 can head toward London (Worker 6 will have taken over the spawn-busting duty, making Axeman 3 best used as a temporary Military Police Unit in London)
Scout heads eastward toward Stalin
Spy 2 Fortifies at 3 S of Paris
Let's figure out the remaining Unit logistics as part of the next turnset
T79: Send chariot 3 to scout south of Berlin; execute plan
IBT: Barb axe disappears
T80: Our woodsman spots English worker on sheep 1E of NOT and captures him; find Yakutsk and possible trade route to Russia, if we are able to capture Hamburg (1 archer defending, but on a hill)
IBT: HBR stolen by spies (assume 007's work)
T81:
Note multiple spears in Germany -- one visible south of Cologne; 2 in Berlin; 1 in Ham
Head newly captured worker to be picked up by galley2 and deposited SW of Argent
Head woodsman to NW coast of England to prevent spontaneous generation of barb galley for the next 9 turns
Chariot 3 finds Munich, defended by 2 archers
Having read Dhoom's recent posts, I'm wondering if we can't make the plan work and still get the new worker to SW of Argent and go ahead with granary. Also, concerned about what we do if barb archer stops and heals, and wondering why he hasn't already done that.
Not happy about it, but I have no more free time before I have to leave, so I will not be able to contribute at all until the 30th or possibly late on the 29th.
Wish the team well (and hope the rest of it shows up).
Well, we have a good enough use for that Worker where he's located--helping to get our Happiness from Gems online sooner.
As for Argent itself, "building the Granary" is more about growing that it is about putting actual Hammers into the Granary, since most of our Hammers will come from Chops (or a possible 1-pop-whipping action), and the raw Hammers that we put into the Granary will probably just end up overflowing into the next build item. Prior to having the Deer improved, we can only grow at a rate of 2 Food per turn, so growing during that time isn't very efficient. We can double that rate of growth after working the improved Deer, so having a way to speed up the improvement of that Deer works out fine.
In the short-term, building a Worker is also relatively efficient, as we can put 4 Hammers toward it from working the Iron (similar to how we worked a G Deer For at the start of the game to build a 12-turn Worker), while growing the City only lets us put 2 Food toward growth. Once the second Worker gets built, it becomes a matter of quickly growing to Size 2 (if we don't have Mathematics for 30-Hammer Chops yet) or quickly Chopping two Forests before growing to Size 2 (if we have Mathematics).
I'm tentatively thinking of Chopping The Hanging Gardens in the Gems City in England, which will require multiple Workers to pull off, so that's another reason to have a third Worker in England.
A Spearman in Hamburg is unfortunate, but with enough Units attacking, we can still pull off the attack. The worst thing that could happen is Frederick building City Walls within the next couple of turns.
Having thought about it more, having sacrificial Scouts would work best if we were amphibiously attacking; since that's no longer the plan, Chariot 3 could just join the group by land from 2 E of Hamburg, moving to 1 S of Hamburg when the rest of the stack lands.
Or, we simply declare war a turn early with our Chariot 3 being sacrificial to lure the Spearman out of Hamburg. We can figure out that detail in a future turnset.
If it has been wandering back and forth, it probably won't stop to heal now. It might even be the Wolf "upgraded" and thus still has the UNIT_AI_ANIMAL script, causing it to forever wander back and forther.
Not happy about it, but I have no more free time before I have to leave, so I will not be able to contribute at all until the 30th or possibly late on the 29th.
Argent, very appropriate name for a city sitting on a pile of silver.
Here is to your sojourn, out of the country, working out well. You are going to be a tough act to follow.
There is an orphaned Fish 2 SW of Yakutsk and also an orphaned Whale 2 NW of Yakutsk. Normally, it won't be in our best interests to resettle an AI's City, but with Yakutsk being a relatively-new City, it might be one that we'd consider razing and resettling 1 W of where it's located, particularly since our placement of Argent has prevented us from sneaking in an additional City to use those missed Resources (the extra Happiness was definitely needed, though, so I don't regret where we settled Argent).
One item that we'll still need to figure out is "when to temporarily stop building Military Units." In particular, when should we start building Spies?
Probably sooner rather than later. To steal techs on Turn 97, our Spies would need to arrive at 3 S of Paris by Turn 91.
Assuming that we built a Spy in York, had a Galley in London that could unload the Spy in Orleans, and had completed a Road at 1 SW of Orleans and on Paris' Wheat, then it would take a Spy 5 turns to get from York to the target location at 3 S of Paris.
Here are some turns for how long it would take for a Spy to get to that location:
York: 5 turns
London: 4 turns
Orleans: 3 turns
XO Cognac: 2 turns
Lyons: 2 turns
Paris: 2 turns
Assuming that we were completing a Spy via whipping or chopping, then to get a Spy in place for Turn 97 tech-stealing, we'd have to whip or chop into the Spies on these turns:
York: Turn 86
London: Turn 87
Orleans: Turn 88
XO Cognac: Turn 89
Lyons: Turn 89
Paris: Turn 89
That's not a whole lot of time.
York is completely out of the game, since it will be tied up with building a Settler, and then our Workers will be busy swarming a Gems square and won't have spare time to Chop out a Spy.
After dumping London's Hammers somewhere (temporarily into a Lighthouse, but probably into a Monastery after we get Meditation from Joao), we could prepare a Spy to be 2-pop-whipped, being able to whip it on Turn 85 or 86, then try to complete a second Spy on the following turn, meaning that we'd need to have a Galley arrive in London on Turn 86, which isn't going to happen without a new Galley.
So, instead of dumping Hammers into a Lighthouse, we could consider dumping them into a Galley (if we're making less than 20 Hammers) or into a Spy (if we're making more than 20 Hammers--but it should be 15 Hammers), then plan to whip a Galley and overflow the Hammers into a Spy, being able to deliver only 1 Spy from London.
Probably preferable, though, is that we plan to get a Galley back in time for a Turn 98 tech-theft spree, which brings us back to dumping our Hammers into a Monastery for a turn, allowing us to try to get 2 Spies out of London that would just have to wait for a Galley to shuttle them, meaning that our target tech-theft date would slip by 1 turn.
Paris probably shouldn't build an Axeman now, but a Spy instead. I'm a bit torn here, as it will be nice to have a Unit to escort a Settler headed over to Africa, but probably a 2-move Chariot is a better escort for a 2-move Settler, and a Chariot could be completed in a City that 2-pop-whips a Spy.
I don't think that we should change any other planned build items, but the build items that we build after the currently-planned build items should probably become Spies.
Once we get Currency, we should discuss any tech trades. I would highly recommend against selling Mysticism to any AI. Stalin will gladly ignore self-teching Mysticism, but once he gets it, he'll also gladly head toward Feudalism. I generally pull out a :facepalm: when I read game write-ups on the forums where a player sells Mysticism for 40 Gold, only to later face stacks of enemy Longbowmen, not even thinking about the cost in Hammers spent on suicidal Units that were used to kill off those Longbowmen, which could have been better spent building Wealth or on Wonder Failure Gold, earning far more than 40 Gold.
What we'll probably end up doing is getting Meditation from Joao and getting all of his (visible) Gold for Currency.
We might also get all of Churchill's (visible) Gold for Currency, if he has enough, and getting him Currency will also marginally speed up his research on Metal Casting.
On that note, we should be Opening Borders with Churchill once we're no longer his Worst Enemy, which may be the turn after we declare Peace or it may be the turn after we sell him Currency.
Probably the only other tech trade worth considering would be getting Alex's Gold for Agriculture.
Other tech trades would be more likely to hurt us relative to any benefit that we could gain. It could be argued that if Hamburg looks easy enough to capture, we could sell Sailing to Frederick for his Gold right before the war, although we might regret that decision later if we leave him with Berlin, he expands along his southern coast (there's coast to the south-east of Berlin), and builds a Galley to harass us later.
After we get Meditation from Joao, we're also going to have to decide on whether to build a Monastery plus a Christian Missionary in London or in Orleans. I'd probably suggest London with Whipping + Chopping, although that timing may further delay when we perform our tech thefts. The exact turn on which we steal techs doesn't matter too much, other than the fact the competing goals of "it's important to have a lot of Spies (10 or more would be wise to have), we really should aim to steal all of the techs possible on the turn that Hatty gets a City from us (otherwise we lose a significant discount from the City Culture discount going from 50 to about 28 in the span of one turn and then growing smaller on successive turns), we really should get Christianity into the gift City on the turn before we gift the City (so that we can "spend" our turn of anarchy before gifting the City, and the longer that we delay stealing techs the longer it will take for us to benefit from them (weaker Chops, delaying when we start on self-teching Civil Service, etc).
Of course, if Hatty's next tech is Civil Service, we'll probably want to wait to steal that tech from her. Possibly the same if her next tech is Paper. For other techs, we could wait to get them.
Maybe the answer for London will be to build a Monastery with the overflow Hammers from our Granary, with the Lighthouse being a placeholder until we trade for Meditation. We could still plan to 2-pop-whip a Spy and overflow into another Spy, and then afterward, hopefully grow fast enough to 2-pop-whip that Monastery and overflow into a Missionary.
Presumably, we'll switch into Christianity on the turn before we gift a City to Hatty, since we shouldn't be in Anarchy on the turn of gifting her a City (otherwise we wouldn't get the Open Borders discount), and switching any sooner would mean a delay of building our Spies/Missionary/Settler... converting to Christianity after we've already completed all of our Units means that those Units can still walk while we're in Anarchy.
If Hatty has 4 or more Cities, we'll first chain-gift Lyons and then our gift City to Hatty, but hopefully, she won't have settled a 4th City by the time that we're ready to give her our gift City at 3 S of Paris.
I'm okay with Paris building an Axeman instead of a Spy, but when would it get completed and how do we plan to use it? That's the part where I was struggling--as long as we follow the Unit logistics in message 809, it won't arrive anywhere close to in time to helping out with Germany fighting.
Meanwhile, not counting Paris' planned Horse Archer whipping action on Turn 82, I would expect that the next items that get whipped out of XO Cognac and Paris are 3-pop-whipped Settlers (the first one for Africa and the second one for 3 S of Paris).
The XO Cognac Chariot, however, can reach battle in time to help out with attacking Frederick. It's better to go in with more Units than we might need, to help with having full-health stack-defenders and counter-Units to deal with any Axeman that come at Hamburg. Also, after capturing Hamburg, it will be nice to have Chariots around and to help capture Cologne with its Axemen defenders. Ideally, we'll also have enough troops to even capture Munich before Cease Firing with Frederick, leaving him to expand to the south of his empire so that we can capture Berlin plus any Cities that he expands to at a later time.
It's certainly clever to be able to earn 40 Hammers in XO Cognac, but I'd prefer not to short-change our attacking stack by an attacking Unit.
I wonder... what if we make it a Chariot instead of a Spy or an Axeman in Paris, and don't have XO Cognac steal the Copper?
That would at least give us the Chariot pretty quickly, and it could help out in the Cologne attack.
Yet another option could be to 2-pop-whip Paris' Horse Archer on T81, getting a Chariot on T82 (we'd have to check if there's enough Hammers to complete the Chariot on T82), then optionally build a Spy now in XO Cognac or else just stick with the Chariot and have an extra Unit that can arrive at Cologne at the start of the war, to maybe pick off an Axeman in Cologne before an Archer or a Spearman gets whipped there.
Note that if we were to switch XO Cognac's Chariot to a Spy, it's actually probably better to complete it 2 turns later instead of rushing to complete it, as our earlier-built Spies will just sit around, potentially costing us Gold in Maintenance.
Summary:
I like the idea to fire Paris' Scientist and work a G For
If we want one more Promoted Unit out of Paris, it should probably be a Chariot
Paris should probably keep the Copper for T 81
I don't have game access, so I'm not sure whether it would be a pain to whip Paris on T 81, but that's an option
It's probably still better to build a Chariot in XO Cognac than a Spy, as Units that can get to the front lines now will be of use in potentially multiple battles, even if one of our Chariots ends up hanging around Cologne to help with attacking an Axeman there
I wonder... what if we make it a Chariot instead of a Spy or an Axeman in Paris, and don't have XO Cognac steal the Copper?
Yet another option could be to 2-pop-whip Paris' Horse Archer on T81, getting a Chariot on T82 (we'd have to check if there's enough Hammers to complete the Chariot on T82), then optionally build a Spy now in XO Cognac or else just stick with the Chariot and have an extra Unit that can arrive at Cologne at the start of the war, to maybe pick off an Axeman in Cologne before an Archer or a Spearman gets whipped there.
I posted the idea about changing the builds before I went through the entire PPP. Seeing how tight the timing is, I might not have suggested it, but I think we can make it work.
Having Paris whip the Horse Archer this turn seems to work with 20 overflow into a chariot (without copper). Turn 81 XO Cognac has copper then turn 82 Paris can use the copper if needed to finish the Chariot. Like you suggested, XO Cognac also building a Chariot might be the best. Hmmm, XO Cognac builds Chariot with copper, 15 overflow into spy, switch to settler turn 83 3 pop whip settler turn 84, 19? overflow into spy, finish spy turn 85.
If we're going to whip now, when it won't help with getting our Horse Archer into position any faster, we'd have to get our next Unit completed next turn. Otherwise, we'd be better off waiting until next turn to whip so that we could earn the input from 2 squares this turn.
Okay, working it out... we have 7 Hammers in our Horse Archer. We also have 15 Food.
If we whip this turn, the most Hammers that we would make (assuming that we keep working our Food-based squares) is 6 Hammers and 9 Food. Alternatively, we could make 4 Hammers and 11 Food by stealing the Cow and working all three Food-based squares.
After whipping, we would need 26 Food to grow. 15 + 9 is only 24, so there's little point in stealing the Cow.
So, we could work Wheat, Deer, and Copper, to make 6 Hammers. On Turn 82, we'd still be at Size 3, so we'd again make 6 Hammers.
7 + 6 + 6 + 60 = 79 Hammers, and we need 50 + 30 = 80 Hammers. That's one Hammer short.
We could make it work by, say, switching the Deer to the Cow for a turn, or switching the Wheat to a Fur for a turn, but doing so doesn't "feel right," since it means slowing growth. That said, we only have enough Happiness to be Happy at Size 4, so maybe it's not a terrible idea. The sooner that we can get to Size 6, the sooner that we can 3-pop-whip a Settler, but a bit of a delay should probably still work out for us.
With this approach, XO Cognac would steal the Fur instead of stealing the Copper. On most turns, we'll make more Flasks in Paris by having Paris work the Fur, but Flasks are soon temporarily not going to matter that much, since we can't get Currency in the span of 1 turn but can easily get Currency within the span of 2 turns.
Or, wait, could we get Currency this turn? It looks like if we adjust a ton of squares, we could squeeze out Currency this turn, but that would mean working 1 F + 2 C Coast squares instead of G For squares and working 2 Scientists in Paris. If we didn't already have The Great Lighthouse, I'd consider it, but we've already dipped into 1-Commerce Trade Routes, so we're probably only talking about +7 to +10 Commerce from +7 1-Commerce Trade Routes or maybe a few of them being 2-Commerce Trade Routes--nice, but probably not worth totally rebalancing our empire to get (Lyons working Fur instead of Fish, London and York working 1 F + 2 C squares, Argent working a Whale square, Paris firing its Deer citizen to become a Scientist citizen, etc).
So, assuming that we don't want to go that extreme, missing out on 3 Flasks by having XO Cognac working the Fur instead of Paris working the Fur (Paris gets +3 Flasks for every 4 base Commerce that it makes at a 100% Science Rate) for one turn seems to be a fair tradeoff to get a Military Unit to the front lines sooner, if we have a use for it. Do we have a use for it? Let's see.
A Chariot built in Paris on Turn 83 can arrive on the G Riv at 1 W of Cologne on Turn 84.
Being there gives us the opportunity to attack Cologne on Turn 85 and then retreat away from Cologne to avoid being counter-attacked, assuming that our Chariot wins.
Being there alternatively gives us the chance to steal a Worker on the G Sheep. Stealing the Worker might mean getting counter-attacked, then losing the Worker if we lost the fight, so it might not be worth it... unless we have a second Chariot there.
So, if we dropped off 9 Units by boat and used Chariot 3 to join the attacking stack, we could have a Combat I Chariot and an Unpromoted Chariot steal the Worker on Turn 85. Then, if Cologne still only has Axemen defenders, we could consider attacking Cologne, although I'd probably advise waiting until we have a couple of more Units who could attack if we wound the defenders but don't kill them.
Anyway, the point is that a Turn-82-built Chariot from Paris can potentially help out at Cologne, so, sure, we could whip on Turn 81, knowing the tradeoffs involved.
Note that XO Cognac doesn't necessarily have to whip its Settler on the turn that we reach Size 6. If Paris is still small and thus we don't have citizens to work some of the power squares, it could also work to delay whipping. We at least get 4 Hammers from 2 Unhappy citizens when building a Settler, plus whatever the 4th Happy citizen is working (say, a Copper that Paris isn't large enough to use), while turning the rest of our Food into raw Hammers... which is not generally the greatest of exchanges, but when we've got that much Unhappiness, and we have short-term desires for more Hammers without whipping too much (i.e. more Spies), it could also work to put more Hammers into a Settler as long as that Settler remains a 3-pop-whipping action.
So, I'd be quite hesitant to whip XO Cognac's Settler on the turn that we reach Size 6. I'm not sure that we'd be at Size 6 on Turn 83. We have 20 + 8 / 28 Food now, but at Size 5, with 1 additional Unhappy citizen, we'd only make 6 Food per turn, giving us 14 + 6 + 6 + 6 = 32 / 30 Food, not growing to Size 6 until Turn 86, right?
Anyway, I'll try to update the PPP for the micro to get a built-on-Turn-82 Chariot out of Paris while still getting a built-on-Turn-81 Chariot out of XO Cognac, then will spoiler the original PPP.
On Turn 83, I think that Paris will be at Size 4, so it can work Wheat, Deer, Copper, and Fur. We'll be at a 100% Espionage Rate on that turn, so it doesn't actually matter which City works the Fur, but Paris won't have a better 4th square to work than a G For square, while XO Cognac will have its Stone to work.
I'm not sure if it will be better for XO Cognac to build the Settler for a couple of turns or to grow while building a Spy starting on Turn 83; it probably won't make a difference at all, unless an AI happens to offer us a Happiness Resource for trade.
Actually, what might make a difference is where we dump the Hammers--probably dumping them into a Spy on Turn 82 makes a tiny bit more sense, since we want as many Hammers as possible going into a Spy there (in case the Hammers are needed), as we can potentially use the building of a Settler to convert Food into Hammers (at a poor-man's rate, but being low on Happiness doesn't give us a lot of options).
It would have been nice to have gotten Monarchy in trade from Hatty for Currency, but she didn't play nicely by researching Currency on us at the last minute, so we'll just have to suffer without Hereditary Rule or the ability to improve a Wine Resource for a while longer. One option might be to self-tech Metal Casting and trade it for Monarchy, but the risk there is that Hatty might go for Metal Casting herself before we're done teching it. Still, it might be an option worth considering on Turn 83 once we see what Hatty has picked for her next tech (say, if she has chosen Feudalism or Civil Service and her research on that tech would take her longer to learn that tech than it would take for us to learn Metal Casting).
Good luck!
Oh, and we could send our Spy 2 to Lyons... gifting Lyons early and stealing Monarchy from Hatty for a higher price could also be a valid option to keep open. It's not like we'd need Spy 2 at 3 S of Paris for a while, anyway.
I figured out were I was going wrong. I was using 25 hammers for a Chariot build not 30. Also XO Cognac will not have the population to 3 pop whip on turn 83.
In a couple of days, I'll be unavailable for a couple of days, so it would be nice to get through this mini-turnset soon so that we can plan out the next mini-turnset in order to fully wire up the logistics for the Hamburg attack while I'm still around to help you out. After that, it'll be up to the random number generator and battle tactics (luring Units to attack us, flanking Units, positioning our Units where they can strike at enemies but not be hit, just going in with brute force, etc).
EDIT: Ignore the rest of this message, as it won't work out better.
Actually, I re-read what I wrote and maybe it does make sense to steal the Cow, since I incorrectly added the Food obtained without working the Cow, but by working the Cow, it looks as though we'd get just enough Food to regrow immediately, making stealing the Cow worth it.
But, would we get enough Hammers?
We'd miss out on 2 Hammers by working the Cow instead of the Copper, so we'd have to find a way to make +2 Hammers with the extra citizen on the following turn.
The only way to do so would be to steal the Cow a second turn, but then Orleans would grow a turn late, as it needs 7 Food and we'd only early 3 Food when working the GH Mine. But, we could pull it off if Orleans works the GH Mine for one turn and a G Riv square for another turn.
Orleans would regrow to Size 3 slower, though, so in the end, it's probably not worth it, as Orleans has Happiness points to grow into, while Paris is low on Happiness.
So, forget stealing the Cow in Paris and just be happy that we're getting ourselves an additional Combat I Chariot that can join the fight.
Dhoom: I am mostly free for the next few days. I will be checking back about once every 1/2 hour to see if you agree with the changes.
Here is PPP (based on the one you posted and edited) changes/additons I made in it are in Red. Diplo Policy
Christianity? No
Stop trading with another AI? No
Give a Resource? Yes (There isn't an enforced 10 turns of Peace for saying yes)
Peace deal or Open Borders? No--we should be the ones to decide when these deals happen
Give Horseback Riding? No
Give a Tech other than Horseback Riding? No to Frederick (since we'll be attacking him
soon), yes to anyone else
Join a war? No
Trade a tech for a tech and/or Gold? No--let's discuss tech trades and put them in a PPP
Reasons for stopping
We meet a new AI
One of our Cities is threatened
Something in the plan sounds wrong
Turn 81, 850 BC
Remand Alex to attack Berlin.
Paris
build: switch to build a Chariot
Works: Fur, Copper, Deer, Wheat, G forest
XO Cognac
build: completes Horse Archer -> builds Chariot
Works: Fish, Cow, Horse, Stone
Orleans
build: switches to building an Axeman
Works: Fish, Cow, Iron
Lyons
build: 1-pop-whips its Chariot
Works: Fish
London
build: Granary
Works: Fish, G Forest, G Forest
York
build: 2-pop-whips its Worker
Works: Fish, G Forest
Argent:
build: Worker
Works: Iron (check this)
Worker 1 quarries stone
Worker 2 finishes road
Worker 3 moves to tundra deer?
Worker 4 Chops the G Riv For that is 1 NW of London
Worker 5 Select the new Worker in England and number him "5" (Ctrl + 5)
Axeman 3 by gem location.
XO Cognac's Horse Archer can head toward Orleans
London's new Galley can head toward Orleans
Axeman 4 (1 SW of Orleans) boards Galley 3 (1 W of Orleans)
Chariot 4 (in Paris) boards Galley 3 (1 W of Orleans)
Galley 3 (with Axeman 4 and Chariot 4 aboard) moves 2 NE to Orleans' Fish
Peace Treaty with Churchill for Mysticism
**Scout continues exploring Russia
Turn 82, 825 BC
Remind Alex to attack Berlin.
Increase our Espionage Rate so that we'll still learn Currency this turn (maybe a 50%
Science Rate and an 50% Espionage Rate?)
Open Borders with Churchill if he is willing to do so
Paris
build: Paris switches to a Horse Archer and 2-pop-whips it
Works: Fur, Deer, Wheat
Lyons
build: completes Chariot -> builds Galley
Works: Fish
London
build: Granary
Works: Fish, G Forest, G Forest
York
build: completes Worker -> builds Settler
Works: Fish, G Forest
Argent:
build: Worker
Works: Iron
Worker 1 quarries stone
Worker 2 moves 1 NE GH Riv Wine
Worker 3 Chops the TunH For (1 SW of Argent)
Worker 4 Finishes Chop that is 1 NW of London
Worker 5 moves (1 SW G For) toward the GH For where we'll settle Gems City (1 E of the
Fish that is to the north of York)
Worker 6 Select the Worker in York and number him "6" (Ctrl + 6)
Worker 6 moves 1 NE G For (1 NE of York)
Axeman 3 can move to the GH For where we'll settle Gems City (1 E of the Fish to the
north of York) to temporarily spawn-bust for a turn
Spy 2 moves toward Lyons
Galley 1 moves 2 S > SW (to NE + N of Orleans' Fish)
Galley 2 moves S > SE (to SW + S of Argent, on the Fish)
Galley 4 moves to Orleans' Fish
Galley 3's Axeman 4 loads into Galley 4
Galley 3's Chariot 4 unloads 1 SE G Riv (1 W of Cologne)
Galley 3, when it is empty of Units, moves into Orleans
Galley 5 moves into Orleans
Chariot 2 unloads in Orleans and moves NE G Riv > E G Riv (1 W of Cologne)
Chariot 1 unloads in Orleans and moves NE G Riv > E G Riv (1 W of Cologne)
Horse Archer 5 (in Paris) moves into Orleans
XO Cognac's Chariot moves into Paris
Lyons' Chariot moves into Paris
Chariot 3 moves 1 NE G Wheat Road > 1 NE G? For
**Scout continues exploring Russia
Turn 83, 800 BC
Remind Alex to attack Berlin.
Espionage Rate 100%
Open Borders with Churchill if he didn't do it last turn.
Paris
build: completes Horse Archer -> Chariot
Works: Fur, Deer, Wheat (Copper instead of Fur if needed)
XO Cognac
build: Settler
Works: Fish, Cow, Horse, Stone, Copper (Fur if Paris needs Copper)
Orleans
build: switches to the Horse Archer and 2-pop-whips it (it should actually be able to
participate in the attack on Hamburg)
Works: Fish, Cow
Lyons
build: Galley
Works: Fish
London
build: completes Granary -> builds Lighthouse (see edit below)
Works: Fish, Horse, Fur
York
build: completes Worker -> builds Settler
Works: Fish, Stone
Argent:
build: Worker
Works: Iron
Worker 1 builds road on stone
Worker 2 Mines GH Riv Wine
Worker 3 Chops the TunH For (1 SW of Argent)
Worker 4 moves to the G For Road that is 1 E of York and Chops
Worker 5 moves (1 SW GH For) toward the GH For where we'll settle Gems City (1 E of the Fish that is to the north of York)
Worker 6 Chops the G For at 1 NE of York
Galley 1 moves to Orleans' Fish
Horse Archer 5 (in Orleans) moves 1 NE G > 1 N Orleans Fish to board a Galley there.
Paris' Horse Archer moves into Orleans and boards a Galley there.
The two Chariots in Paris move into Orleans and board a Galley there.
Chariot 3 moves 1 SW G Wheat Road > 1 SW Munich > 1 W G Cottage Road (to reveal what's in Berlin)
Axeman 3 can head toward London
Spy 2 moves toward Lyons
**Scout continues exploring Russia
EDIT The GH Forest 2N of London has been pre-chopped and requires 1 chop to finish. If on turn 84 Worker 5 move 1S he will be on said hill. If we have gotten Meditation from Joao we might want to build a Monastery in London instead of Lighthouse.
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