Fine by me, but would invite others to step forward at that point and participate in what they signed up for.
SGOTM 23 - Xteam
- Thread starter AlanH
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Dhoomstriker
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We might as well change that to:
Switch Religions? No
(Since we won't want to switch to Taoism or to any other Religion that spreads to us in the short term, not even Islam, since we'll need the extra GPP from Pacifism under Christianity in London.)
I'd suggest adding Joao to that list of AIs who shouldn't get a tech, as we're considering attacking him soon.
Piggyback research only applies once we've learned a tech. Do you know of evidence that supports that an AI will pick a tech based on the player's tech selection? If yes, it would be exciting to know about, as there are many times when we're at a 0% Science Rate when such a tactic could be of use.
While in Anarchy, we will still earn 1 Flask. It's only 1 Flask, but if we end up taking Priesthood in trade later, we won't get that Flask back.
I would recommend doing that on T98 in case things get bloody at Athens.
If Alex cold-whips an Archer, we won't be attacking Athens with our current forces, as we won't be able to win against 2 Archers and 2 Warriors in there with just 1 Horse Archer and 4 Chariots.
If we complete Orleans' Chariot, we'll at least have the option of shuttling over Paris' Chariot and Orleans' Chariot. Cologne's Chariot could come on the next boat, and if we really want, we could whip a 4th Chariot out of Paris on T97 to ensure that we'll have enough mobile troops.
Or, if Athens has 1 Archer but our Horse Archer barely scratches it, we'll have to delay the attack until reinforcements arrive, so we might as well get some reinforcements built that can shuttle over to Athens by Galley.
Of course, pushing the Civic switch to T98 means messing up your PPP in terms of build items, so, sorry about that.
That's 5 less Flasks (because of London's Monastery) for 1 turn, but it's a pretty neat way to get our Library sooner, which means even more Flasks later and more importantly, our Great Person sooner. Nice catch!
We have 41 Hammers now and we need 60 Hammers. By swapping the Fur to the Stone, we earn 9 Hammers.
On the following turn, if we swap the Fish to the Fur, by working Horse, Stone, and Fur, we can still grow to Size 4 and can earn 10 Hammers, getting us our 60 Hammers after 2 turns just as we grow to Size 4, allowing for a 1-pop-whipped Library.
Sounds good. To that, I would add:
Paris switches Settler to Chariot
Orleans switches Spy to Chariot
Orleans steals back its Fish and works: Fish, Cow, and Iron
Cologne 1-pop-whips its Chariot
In this way, we'll have 3 Chariots that can go toward either Athens or Nottingham while we're in Anarchy on T98.
If we really want a 4th Chariot, we could also consider 1-pop-whipping Paris' Chariot now, so that, for example, we'd be able to send 2 Galley loads of Chariots to Athens to ensure that we capture the City or to send 2 Galley loads of Chariots over to Nottingham to ensure that we capture the City. I'm also okay if we don't whip Paris, though, since Bureaucracy isn't very far off, but 1 population point invested into a Chariot would be worth spending if it mean securing either City location.
That sounds fine in principle, but don't put too much pressure on yourself to do it; if another Archer appears or if the existing Archer isn't hurt much by our Horse Archer, we'll need you to have a cool head to call off the attack. "Live to fight another day."
It won't help to "almost" capture Athens but it survives with a wounded Warrior and then whips an Archer on the following turn, which would mean that Frederick would probably move in, we'd have to bribe Frederick off of Alex, then we'd have to worry about Frederick attacking us, and we'd be down by a few Military Units.
If we still need a Spy, we could get it after our Chariot.
It would also be good to stop play on T98 so that we can decide where to send all of our Spies, based on info such as which tech Hatty picked and how things are looking at Athens.
Good idea. If we don't have a connection to our Ivory next turn, we'll want that extra Happiness. Otherwise, perhaps it will be worth completing the Farm for Paris before improving the Wine so that we can get to work on growing Paris into a massive Cottage heaven.
Assuming a T98-Anarchy, we'll need to move these two Workers as follows:
Worker 5 moves 1 S G Riv For (1 N of the Horse)
Worker 6 moves 2 E G Riv For (1 N of the Horse)
Otherwise, we'd end up putting too many Hammers into the Aqueduct on T99 because the T98 Chop from Worker 4 wouldn't appear in the Aqueduct until T99.
I'd highly suggest that we plan to either deliver more troops to Athens by sailing 2 N or plan to pick up the successful victors from Athens by sailing eastward toward Athens, waiting to decide based on what happens at Athens.
Once we have troops on a Galley, we could certainly start shuttling them over to Egypt (a single Chariot moving around on Hatty's Roads inside of her Open Borders could explore a lot more efficiently than a Galley could, for example) or else get out troops heading toward Joao.
Let's buy ourselves a full turn of Galley movement by only moving 1 SW and Unloading at 1 E of the "Real Game" sign (1 NW and 1 NE of the two Incense squares) and then sending our Galley back 1 NE toward Lyons/Athens.
I won't look at the T99 portion just yet, since what we do may change based on what happens with Athens and what Hatty picks for her next tech.
For T98, we could add:
Sell/Gift Mathematics to Joao
Sell/Gift Code of Laws to Joao
Sell/Gift Code of Laws to Churchill
Sell/Gift Calendar to Mehmed
Only Darius should be upset by those trades and Darius is already at -4 for us having traded with Mehmed
EDIT: If by selecting Civil Service, Hatty will be more likely to go for Civil Service, that's great! Let her tech it and we can go for Paper, then we can have both techs in less total time.
We need to revolt now on T97.
Ruby Bay needs to whip the Aqueduct on T99. If we revolt on T98 the chop from T98 will be part of the new hammers to be added on T99, Therefore, Ruby Bay will not be able to 1-pop whip since there will be less than 70 hammers in the Aqueduct. Also there is a chop being finished on T99. if that chop is delayed to T100 there is no way to get 3 chops completed on T101.
If Alex reinforces Athens, before a T98 attack, it will probably be even tougher to attack when 2 more of our Chariots arrive.
I will switch Paris back and finish building the Chariot. Then a Courthouse?
I will switch Orleans back to Chariot.
York can 2-pop whip a settler on T105. Are we going to base when we raze Nottingham on that settler?
I will unload Galley 6 where you suggest.
Galley 7 will wait to see what happens at Athens.
Can you juggle were Axe 5 and Axe 6 are in the promotion queue by loading unloading to a galley? (So we know Axe 5 gets the 3 XPs).
Dhoomstriker, I am not objecting to your proposed promotions, just commenting:
I would have included Axe 4 in the 2XP promotions instead of a Chariot.
I would give HA's 8 & 10 [Combat I + Shock].
I agree with Axe 5 getting Woodsman III.
I would give all the Chariots Combat II.
I would HA 5 Combat II.
I do not disagree with HA 5 joining Zhuge and getting Tactics, but Axe 5 with Tactics might have been my choice.
Re: Worker 8 we should get him back to Hamburg.
But was it the real Bond or just one of the many imitations that have been around?
my ppp for T99 was basically builds and Worker moves.
Ruby Bay needs to whip the Aqueduct on T99. If we revolt on T98 the chop from T98 will be part of the new hammers to be added on T99, Therefore, Ruby Bay will not be able to 1-pop whip since there will be less than 70 hammers in the Aqueduct. Also there is a chop being finished on T99. if that chop is delayed to T100 there is no way to get 3 chops completed on T101.
If Alex reinforces Athens, before a T98 attack, it will probably be even tougher to attack when 2 more of our Chariots arrive.
I will switch Paris back and finish building the Chariot. Then a Courthouse?
I will switch Orleans back to Chariot.
York can 2-pop whip a settler on T105. Are we going to base when we raze Nottingham on that settler?
I will unload Galley 6 where you suggest.
Galley 7 will wait to see what happens at Athens.
Can you juggle were Axe 5 and Axe 6 are in the promotion queue by loading unloading to a galley? (So we know Axe 5 gets the 3 XPs).
Dhoomstriker, I am not objecting to your proposed promotions, just commenting:
I would have included Axe 4 in the 2XP promotions instead of a Chariot.
I would give HA's 8 & 10 [Combat I + Shock].
I agree with Axe 5 getting Woodsman III.
I would give all the Chariots Combat II.
I would HA 5 Combat II.
I do not disagree with HA 5 joining Zhuge and getting Tactics, but Axe 5 with Tactics might have been my choice.
Re: Worker 8 we should get him back to Hamburg.
But was it the real Bond or just one of the many imitations that have been around?
my ppp for T99 was basically builds and Worker moves.
Dhoomstriker
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Reviewing the plan at http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=14377462&postcount=868, it appears that you're right--we weren't moving 2 Workers to the same Forest.
So, we can't revolt on T98 and get all of our Chops by T101. Should we revolt on T99?
On T100, we could 1-pop-whip the Aqueduct, as the Chop that comes in on T99 won't have been dumped into the Aqueduct yet, but the 2 Chops from T97 and the 1 Chop from T98 will have been dumped into the Aqueduct. The T99 Chop will overflow into The Hanging Gardens.
Testing shows that if we revolt on T99, we can't revolt again until T105 (the 5 turns of no switching again counts starting from the last turn of your Anarchy--even if you launch a Golden Age after revolting to remove the Anarchy, that timing penalty stays, as I found out to my dismay in, I believe, SGOTM 16).
Assuming that it takes us 7 turns to learn Civil Service, then that's:
T97, T98, T100, T101, T102, T103, T014 (learn it at the end of this turn)... so, just in time to revolt again
Orleans and Cologne would be able to complete their Chariots on T97 (Cologne whips but Orleans does not since Orleans' Chariot can be finished without whipping).
We could build the Chariot in Paris to grow but not whip it yet, only whipping it on T98 if things didn't go well with our Horse Archer at Athens or if Alex has 2 Archers there.
Note that if Alex does cold-whip a second Archer there, we should probably Pillage the GH Mine with one of our Chariots before moving our two northern Chariots on the GH to join our Horse Archer plus the other two Chariots on the PH, in the hopes that an AI (Frederick) will stop choking if the square under him gets Pillaged.
Don't even try the attack if Alex gets a second Archer. We won't capture the City and Alex will just keep whipping Archers if we take out too many of his defenders. Frederick will also likely move in once the top defender is not as strong as it is now. Better to live and fight another day. Athens is nice, but it isn't that big of a prize. If a second Archer appears in Athens, please conserve our Units and we can either use them at Joao or Hatty while we wait for a Spy to arrive in Athens, Catapults to arrive outside of Athens, or Frederick to finally get the balls to move in.
Besides, we're talking about bringing 4 more Chariots, not just 2 more Chariots, as we have 2 Galleys and if Paris completes its Chariot, we'll have 4 Chariots--but, Paris' Chariot could go on the second Galley along with Cologne's Chariot, so we can wait until T98 to see if we'd need to whip Paris' Chariot and then leave open the option of going in with 1 HA and 8 Chariots instead of waiting for a Spy or a Catapult to arrive.
A quick test of putting 22 final Hammers into Paris' Courthouse allows us to 2-pop-whip it after Bureaucracy, getting 172 / 120 final Hammers. Now, not all of those final Hammers will overflow, since only base Hammers overflow, but the point is that if we put 1 turn of production into a Courthouse in Paris, it will still be 2-pop-whippable on the turn after revolting into Bureaucracy.
So, sure, we could put a turn of Hammers into a Courthouse.
Since 2-pop-whipping a cheap Courthouse under Bureaucracy gave us 150 final Hammers, the Courthouse would become a 1-pop-whipping action when it only needed 75 or less final Hammers to complete it. So, we'd need to make sure that we'd put in less than 120 - 75 = 45 final Hammers before Bureaucracy, which is 22 or less base Hammers before Bureaucracy (45 / 2.0 = 22.5) or 17 or less base Hammers after Bureaucracy (45 / 2.5 = 18).
No, I'd say that we plan to raze Nottingham as soon as we can after we declare war on Churchill on T101 in order to recapture St. Pete's.
Once Nottingham has been razed, we can resettle it at our leisure.
We give up possession of York on the turn when we resettle Nottingham, so we'd probably whip York hard to build Chariots or some other cheap build item after we complete the Settler in York.
EDIT: If we're going to give York to an AI whom we don't want to grow York large, we might even want to Pillage its Fish before gifting York. Or, we gift it with the Fish intact to an AI who is running Caste System and we simply easily capture a large-sized City later on when we have Courthouses in England's other Cities and might be able to afford a 4th Colonial City.
An AI with 3 or less Cities would take York off of our hands. Originally, I was thinking Joao, but we might be at war with him at that time, so Mehmed could be our backup option. Or, Frederick could be an option.
I'm not going to touch the Units in that way, as doing so would count as irreversible moves as far as BUFFY is concerned, and then I'd have to upload the game and you'd have to download it before you could play.
But, I did do several tests with Great Generals on multiple stacks of Units (and I just tried again right now) and I consistently saw the Units being listed in the order from left to right being assigned the most XP. I imagine that they do a simple algorithm that assigns 1 XP per Unit in the list, starting from the left and going to right, only giving out XP to a Unit that is eligible to receive a Promotion, and then they loop through the list again. Or, they might have a better algorithm that uses better math, but the end result appears to be consistently the same.
Units get ordered from left to right based on:
1. Unit type
2. Total number of Promotions
3. Order in which they were built
In this case, Axeman 5 has more Promotions than Axeman 6, so Axeman 5 will get the 3 XP as long as we only have 3 Horse Archers on the square, 0 Galleys on the square, and 8 Units in total not including the Great General and not including the Worker (the Worker can't steal away any XP--I just checked).
Axe 4 and Axe 5 are the same Unit type and they have the same number of Promotions, so the order of when they were built will determine who will appear first in the list. In order for Axe 5 to get 3 XP, we would have had to have removed a Horse Archer instead of a Chariot in order to fit in Axe 4.
Axe 4 is so badly-wounded that he won't heal in time to help out much, and he couldn't have gotten Woodsman II, so he wouldn't have helped in the fight. Plus, we need to reserve someone to recapture St. Pete's, so why not reserve the most wounded Unit who is too slow to travel with the rest of the stack?
Sounds good.
The reasoning here is that Woodsman III gives us a chance to damage the top defender twice, or at least to cancel out 1 of the top defender's First Strikes and to get one of our own if the top defender is an Archer. Or, maybe our Shock Horse Archers will be able to attack first and take out all of the Spearmen plus Archers, giving our Axeman 2 First Strikes against a Melee Unit such as a Swordsman or Axeman.
Also, Woodsman III will give us a bit more healing, as I'm guessing that HA 8 and HA 10 won't be able to heal completely, even with being given 1 / 6 -> 3.5 / 6 -> 4.75 / 6 Health from Promotions and then having only 1 turn to heal. But, our stack should be large enough that we'll just march even if those two Horse Archers haven't fully healed.
A Horse Archer has an inherent 20% chance to withdraw, which will stack with the 30% from Tactics. I find that stacking similar bonuses together in Civ 4 works well as a general practice.
In Message 959, I suggested moving Worker 8 into St. Pete's on T98 so that he can board Galley 1 before Galley 1 departs St. Pete's.
It's up to you if you want to rename 008 to 007. They'll still maintain the same relative order when stacked with other Spies.
EDIT:
Technically speaking, since the Chariots are at full health and they won't be the top defenders, we might as well wait to assign their Promotions. Other Units should take their Promotions, but we could wait on assigning Promotions to the Chariots until we're attacking, in case we find that a different Promotion would be of more use when the battle commences (say, if there are only Melee Units defending or if we want to attack a Spearman with our Chariot; alternatively, we might want Combat II if an Archer is the defender against a Chariot).
T99 Revolt works. Actualy a little better food wise than T97 (Ruby Bat stays at 2 pop till it is whipped so I do not have to switch from fish to Gems (at size1) to get enough Hammers. We can even whip again on T101 (but I do not want to).
Poorly worded by me. I meant that if Alex reinforces right now, he might reinforce again before 2 more of our Chariots arrive and it would still be impractical to attack him even with the addition of more Chariots. I am going to finish T97 and see what Alex does before taking any decision.
Once again a poorly worded question by me. I did not want to know if you (Dhoomstriker) could move them. Replacing "Can you juggle" with "Could one juggle" would make the question closer to want I was trying to ask. What I wanted to know was: How is the promotion queue determined?
You did answer what I was trying to find out,
how the order is determined for who gets the XP when it is spread around (I wanted to be sure that Axe 5 was going to receive 3XP and Axe 6 would receive 2XP). The question about the galley was me speculating that the Unit order was based on order of arrival so loading and unloading would change a unit arrival time.I have no problem with deferring assigning a promotion to the Chariots.
Dhoomstriker
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I don't think that it will be possible to whip on T101 anyway, because we'll be getting 3 Chops in at that time, so there's nothing that could be whipped without losing Hammers into excess overflow Gold. So, it's good that you don't want to do it!
Well, the point of delaying the revolt until T99 would be to get a Chariot out of Cologne at the end of T97 (whipped), a Chariot out of Orleans at the end of T97 (not whipped), and, if needed, a Chariot out of Paris on T98 (whipped only if needed). That way, we'd be reinforcing with 4 Chariots, and perhaps also performing some trickery (backing off and coming in again, getting Frederick to finally help out by Pillaging the GH Mine underneath of him--I'm not sure if that would work, or even attacking with a suicidal Chariot so that the top defender gets weakened and Frederick then goes in for an attack--which might backfire and just give the top defender another Promotion). Other trickery might be getting a Cease Fire with Alex in a way that teleports our Units close to a German City (which would require some teleportation testing) and then backstab Frederick out of the blue while Frederick's army is tied up near Athens.
So, if we're going to delay the revolt, please make sure that we're getting those Chariots.
If you don't want to get those Chariots on T97 for some reason, then just revolt on T97 and if the Athens situation doesn't look promising, we may end up just sending a Spy to Athens and heading over to Hatty or Joao with our Units that are currently at Athens.
Finished T97 and some of T98. T98 builds might need some adjustment to reflect the T99 revolt.
I did not use Zhuge yet to upgrade the troops.
Hattie is studying Civil Service.
write-up
T97, 450BC (continued)
We remind Mehmed to attack Rostov.
Paris whips a Chariot
Cologne Whips a Chariot
Between Turns. Wheat to Joao for crab Deal is canceled.
T98, 425BC
A French revoltion has taken place in Macau.
We do not have a sea Route to Ivory Coast, no Ivory is available in Paris.
The radiant Marie Curie is seen 1 SW of Yekaterinburg
York Steals forest 1N of Horses for this turn only. Ruby Bay should Enable it next turn - T99.
Chariot 9 (in Egypt) discovers an Iron deposit and Fish near Joao's southern border.
We Lose 2 Chariots in capturing Athens (I must have played too many test games since in 4 out of 5 tests I only lost 1 Chariot). Athens is in our Trade network. The only Building in Athens is the Oracle and our monument.
The Revolution in Macau might give us a chance to steal a few more techs.
The Logs:
Session Turn Log from 450 BC to 425 BC:
AutoLog:
The Save:
I did not use Zhuge yet to upgrade the troops.
Hattie is studying Civil Service.
write-up
T97, 450BC (continued)
We remind Mehmed to attack Rostov.
Paris whips a Chariot
Cologne Whips a Chariot
Between Turns. Wheat to Joao for crab Deal is canceled.
T98, 425BC
A French revoltion has taken place in Macau.
We do not have a sea Route to Ivory Coast, no Ivory is available in Paris.
The radiant Marie Curie is seen 1 SW of Yekaterinburg
York Steals forest 1N of Horses for this turn only. Ruby Bay should Enable it next turn - T99.
Chariot 9 (in Egypt) discovers an Iron deposit and Fish near Joao's southern border.
We Lose 2 Chariots in capturing Athens (I must have played too many test games since in 4 out of 5 tests I only lost 1 Chariot). Athens is in our Trade network. The only Building in Athens is the Oracle and our monument.
The Revolution in Macau might give us a chance to steal a few more techs.
The Logs:
Session Turn Log from 450 BC to 425 BC:
Spoiler :
AutoLog:
Spoiler :
The Save:
The only reason I mentioned about the whipping was if we fall a hammer short of Building The Hanging Gardens we could finish it by whipping on T101 crappy because it is whipping a Wonder but if we are in a race ...I don't think that it will be possible to whip on T101 anyway, because we'll be getting 3 Chops in at that time, so there's nothing that could be whipped without losing Hammers into excess overflow Gold. So, it's good that you don't want to do it!
Is it worth it on T102 for Ruby Bay to whip a Granary?
Dhoomstriker
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I think that we'll be whipping the Wonder on that turn unless you really did find a way to complete it with the exact amount of Hammers while counting the extra turn of Anarchy.
EDIT: Here's the math, which makes it look like it will simply "take care of itself" by switching Civics on T99.
3 Chops into Aqueduct
30 Hammers from 1-pop-whipping it
4 Chops into The Hanging Gardens
3 * 30 + 30 + 4 * 30 = 8 * 30 = 240
100 + 150 = 250 Hammers needed
T97 we make 3 H by working Fish + Gems
T98 we make 3 H by working Fish + Gems
T99 we make 0 H by working Fish + Gems
T100 we make 1 H by working Fish
T101 we make 3 H by working Fish + Gems
11 F + 4 (T97) + 4 (T98) + 5 (T100) = 24 / 22 F, so we'll be at Size 2 on T101.
Would we whip a Granary on T102? Probably not immediately, as we'll have just grown to Size 2 with a nearly-empty Food box and we'll be at Size 3 from the extra population point (unless we are beaten to completing the Wonder).
Appreciate the continuing effort, Joe. Keep up the good work.
Dhoomstriker
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Sorry, I missed seeing that you'd played already. Nice work!
Big Game #2 it is!
We'll lose the turn of Flasks invested into Civil Service, but overall we'll come out ahead.
In terms of Literature and Music, it only really takes her 1 turn of being out of City Revolt to go from a 50% Culture discount to about a 25% Culture discount, so I don't think that our Spies can get back to Macau in time to really benefit. That said, Literature is reasonably cheap, so if we really want to get Literature, we could send a Spy or two to Macau to try to get it.
For Civil Service, gifting a City with Spies already inside of it is preferable as then our Spies can't auto-die by being in an AI's territory turn after turn.
We would need a way to break up the Stone from Hatty <-> Marble from Mehmed trade in order to get Marble from Mehmed to make good use out of Literature, but I suppose that it doesn't hurt to be prepared to take advantage of such a possibility.
We'll have to be careful of the timing of our Civic switch, so that we don't have 13 or more Cities when we switch Civics.
We'll probably want a Settler soon (out of Orleans?) for the Clams + Gems to the north of Athens.
I'm assuming that we'll use the Chariots that we just created in the forced migration of Nottingham. I don't think that we're in a position to attack Frederick yet, and our navy probably isn't large enough to go for Joao or Hatty immediately.
Hatty continuing to delay Feudalism will help out, as we won't have to scramble too hard to go after her before she fields Longbowmen.
I'll take a look at the saved game shortly.
That's weird. Is a Barb Galley Pillaging his seafood?
That's a really lucky break!
Big Game #2 it is!
We'll lose the turn of Flasks invested into Civil Service, but overall we'll come out ahead.
Spoiler :
Haha, that's really funny. We can't Culture-flip our City back, since we gifted it. But, it does delay when Hatty's Culture will take away our Espionage Culture discount. Still, the delay won't be long enough for her to learn Civil Service.
In terms of Literature and Music, it only really takes her 1 turn of being out of City Revolt to go from a 50% Culture discount to about a 25% Culture discount, so I don't think that our Spies can get back to Macau in time to really benefit. That said, Literature is reasonably cheap, so if we really want to get Literature, we could send a Spy or two to Macau to try to get it.
For Civil Service, gifting a City with Spies already inside of it is preferable as then our Spies can't auto-die by being in an AI's territory turn after turn.
We would need a way to break up the Stone from Hatty <-> Marble from Mehmed trade in order to get Marble from Mehmed to make good use out of Literature, but I suppose that it doesn't hurt to be prepared to take advantage of such a possibility.
That's unfortunate. It's going to be a challenge to get our Happiness Resources connected. We might need to send more Workers to Egypt.
I was really hoping to see her build an Academy in Moscow.
Congrats! That result sounds really good to me!
We'll have to be careful of the timing of our Civic switch, so that we don't have 13 or more Cities when we switch Civics.
We'll probably want a Settler soon (out of Orleans?) for the Clams + Gems to the north of Athens.
I'm assuming that we'll use the Chariots that we just created in the forced migration of Nottingham. I don't think that we're in a position to attack Frederick yet, and our navy probably isn't large enough to go for Joao or Hatty immediately.
Hatty continuing to delay Feudalism will help out, as we won't have to scramble too hard to go after her before she fields Longbowmen.
I'll take a look at the saved game shortly.
Dhoomstriker
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Sweet, it looks like you even scored us a Greek Worker! We really need more Workers, so that news is quite helpful. We'll need to decide what to do with it, though.
Perhaps we can start by building a Road northward, starting with the GH Mine where Frederick's army is standing. Once we settle a City to the north of Athens, we can have it improve the Gems Mine and the Copper Mine, but it will take several turns before our Orleans-whipped Settler could get there (settled in 8 turns). Or, should we send it by Galley toward Lyons, possibly even delaying when we load our mounted Units onto Galleys?
Athens even comes complete with 2 settled Great Prophets! Very nice!
Hatty seems to have a second Settler Party, at 1 NE of Memphis.
Stalin has a Galley at 1 NE of Vlad that seems to be headed westward toward us. It will take some time before it will arrive at Argent, and it likely left Yekaterinburg empty of land Units, but we'll still need to keep its presence at the backs of our minds.
Nottingham has Taoism in it, which is extremely nice, because we'll capture St. Pete's and then Churchill will feel obliged to switch into Taoism on the following turn, giving himself Anarchy instead of a whipped City Defender in Nottingham. He then won't share a State Religion with Stalin anymore, either. Here's hoping that it works out that smoothly, anyway.
As for the Military Units at Athens, we could plan to put them on boats and target going after Joao next, with us first using the north-west gift City on Joao, then capturing it, then later gifting it to Hatty, while our army heals on Galleys close to Oporto.
We'd need more troops to go with our existing troops, of course.
We could consider sending another Chariot to Egypt to explore.
We could also consider sending the Athens Worker to Lyons, where it can complete the G Riv Farm (an improvement of use).
What about our Spies?
It will take 5 turns to arrive in Lisbon and then add 6 turns for a full Stationary Bonus. Assuming that we go for Oporto first, doing so could make sense. Even if we don't end up Supporting a City Revolt, we could Steal Treasury.
It will take the same amount of time to arrive in Oporto. Again, I'm not sure that we'd end up doing a Support City Revolt Mission, and our Spy might auto-die (not giving us a choice in the matter), but if we're going to consider amphibiously assaulting Oporto, a Support City Revolt Mission would be nice, since the City has City Walls (50% Cultural Defences and being harder to Bombard).
We could technically send some Spies to Stalin, but I think that if we really want to do that, we can just whip a Spy out of a captured Russian City.
We could also consider sending a Spy to Germany, but probably the best target would be Frederick's Copper, as we could Bombard Berlin with Catapults that get built in Ex-German Cities. We could just as easily send a Spy that returns to Paris to later perform a Sabotage Copper Mission, as it's a relatively cheap Mission, so you don't necessarily need a good Stationary Bonus, and we might not even bother to Sabotage it and just go in the front door with Cats with War Elephant support.
I'm not totally convinced that it would be worth it to send Spies to Macau. Techs will cost more EPs to steal and our Spies would have several turns during which they could auto-die. I'd suggest that we just stick with Big Game #2.
How about:
1 Spy to Lisbon
1 Spy to Oporto
6 Spies to Paris' Fur (1 N of the Copper) on their way to the 2nd Big Game
One unfortunate point is that we don't have a way to get the 2nd Big Game City settled before we complete The Hanging Gardens (assuming that we don't get beaten to building it), as it would have been nice to have gotten that City to Size 2 quite quickly. No matter; the Fish will do the trick easily enough.
We have 4 techs to steal, so 6 Spies should get us those techs. The really tricky part is figuring out for how long to let our Spies sit in a Joao-owned Big Game #2 City, as each turn that they sit around there, the more Units that Joao might send out of his core Cities, but the more chances that each of our Spies will have of auto-dying.
Suggestions for T98
Paris switches Cottage to Wheat
Paris builds Catapult (to be slow-built)
Orleans builds Settler (with 1 turn of Hammers put into it, 1 turn of growth, and 1 more turn of Hammers put into it, we can 2-pop-whip a City for north of Athens)
Lyons builds Galley
Hamburg builds Work Boat
Cologne builds Catapult (20 base Hammers plus 1-pop-whipping earns us a Catapult near Germany)
Athens builds Granary
Switch Research to Paper.
I'm not sure why our trade with Joao was cancelled, but we should probably just resume the trade:
Crab from Joao <-> Wheat
20 Gold from Joao <-> Code of Laws
Gift Calendar to Joao
10 Gold from Mehmed <-> Calendar
30 Gold from Churchill <-> Code of Laws
Join Zhuge Liang with HA 5
Chariot 8 can stay aboard Galley 4 until next turn, when Galley 4 can sail into St. Pete's
After Zhuge has spread his XP, HA 11 can move from Galley 5 directly into St. Pete's (for no other good reason than to possibly reduce Unit Supply costs)
Similarly, after Zhuge has spread his XP, Chariot 1 and HA 4 can unload from Galley 3 directly into St. Pete's
Galley 3 (when empty) can then sail 1 SW Fish (2 W of St. Pete's) with the goal of being the start of the next Galley chain
1 Spy to Lisbon
1 Spy to Oporto
6 Spies to Paris' Fur (1 N of the Copper) on their way to the 2nd Big Game
Axeman 4 (in Vlad) moves 1 SW GH For
Suggestions for T99
London 1-pop-whips Library (so that we don't forget to do it on T100)
London works Fish, Horse, and Fur
York switches the 1 NE + 1 E G Riv For to the Stone
Ruby Bay steals back the 1 SE + 1 S G Riv For
Ruby Bay 1-pop-whips Aqueduct (so that we don't forget to do it on T100)
Settler 8 (in Egypt) moves 2 SW to the Plains square (2 E of the Fish). We can plan to settle 1 S of here (1 SE + 1 E of the Fish) on the following turn, giving us Fish, 2 Gold, and Incense. In this way, once Lisbon falls, we will have left space for a City in northern Africa to grab the Iron and use the seafood along the northern coast of Africa (sharing some of Lisbon's seafood).
Chariot 9 can probably plan to defend Gold City. On it's way there, it could move 1 S P (1 E of the Fish) > 1 SE P Riv to reveal another two hidden squares, then probably move to the Plains square that is 2 S of the eastern Gold Resource to explore the square 2 SW of there.
Worker 2 moves 1 SW Incense, partial Roads, and STOPS (it can then move to the northern Gold on the following turn)
Worker 8 Unloads on the G For at 2 E of Hamburg (assuming that we don't see any of Stalin's Units on the G for at 3 E of Hamburg)
Worker 9 (in Athens) moves to the GH Mine at 1 NW + 1 N of Athens (to Road it)? Or, should we plan to send it by Galley toward Lyons?
Perhaps we can start by building a Road northward, starting with the GH Mine where Frederick's army is standing. Once we settle a City to the north of Athens, we can have it improve the Gems Mine and the Copper Mine, but it will take several turns before our Orleans-whipped Settler could get there (settled in 8 turns). Or, should we send it by Galley toward Lyons, possibly even delaying when we load our mounted Units onto Galleys?
Athens even comes complete with 2 settled Great Prophets! Very nice!
Hatty seems to have a second Settler Party, at 1 NE of Memphis.
Stalin has a Galley at 1 NE of Vlad that seems to be headed westward toward us. It will take some time before it will arrive at Argent, and it likely left Yekaterinburg empty of land Units, but we'll still need to keep its presence at the backs of our minds.
Nottingham has Taoism in it, which is extremely nice, because we'll capture St. Pete's and then Churchill will feel obliged to switch into Taoism on the following turn, giving himself Anarchy instead of a whipped City Defender in Nottingham. He then won't share a State Religion with Stalin anymore, either. Here's hoping that it works out that smoothly, anyway.
As for the Military Units at Athens, we could plan to put them on boats and target going after Joao next, with us first using the north-west gift City on Joao, then capturing it, then later gifting it to Hatty, while our army heals on Galleys close to Oporto.
We'd need more troops to go with our existing troops, of course.
We could consider sending another Chariot to Egypt to explore.
We could also consider sending the Athens Worker to Lyons, where it can complete the G Riv Farm (an improvement of use).
What about our Spies?
It will take 5 turns to arrive in Lisbon and then add 6 turns for a full Stationary Bonus. Assuming that we go for Oporto first, doing so could make sense. Even if we don't end up Supporting a City Revolt, we could Steal Treasury.
It will take the same amount of time to arrive in Oporto. Again, I'm not sure that we'd end up doing a Support City Revolt Mission, and our Spy might auto-die (not giving us a choice in the matter), but if we're going to consider amphibiously assaulting Oporto, a Support City Revolt Mission would be nice, since the City has City Walls (50% Cultural Defences and being harder to Bombard).
We could technically send some Spies to Stalin, but I think that if we really want to do that, we can just whip a Spy out of a captured Russian City.
We could also consider sending a Spy to Germany, but probably the best target would be Frederick's Copper, as we could Bombard Berlin with Catapults that get built in Ex-German Cities. We could just as easily send a Spy that returns to Paris to later perform a Sabotage Copper Mission, as it's a relatively cheap Mission, so you don't necessarily need a good Stationary Bonus, and we might not even bother to Sabotage it and just go in the front door with Cats with War Elephant support.
I'm not totally convinced that it would be worth it to send Spies to Macau. Techs will cost more EPs to steal and our Spies would have several turns during which they could auto-die. I'd suggest that we just stick with Big Game #2.
How about:
1 Spy to Lisbon
1 Spy to Oporto
6 Spies to Paris' Fur (1 N of the Copper) on their way to the 2nd Big Game
One unfortunate point is that we don't have a way to get the 2nd Big Game City settled before we complete The Hanging Gardens (assuming that we don't get beaten to building it), as it would have been nice to have gotten that City to Size 2 quite quickly. No matter; the Fish will do the trick easily enough.
We have 4 techs to steal, so 6 Spies should get us those techs. The really tricky part is figuring out for how long to let our Spies sit in a Joao-owned Big Game #2 City, as each turn that they sit around there, the more Units that Joao might send out of his core Cities, but the more chances that each of our Spies will have of auto-dying.
Suggestions for T98
Paris switches Cottage to Wheat
Paris builds Catapult (to be slow-built)
Orleans builds Settler (with 1 turn of Hammers put into it, 1 turn of growth, and 1 more turn of Hammers put into it, we can 2-pop-whip a City for north of Athens)
Lyons builds Galley
Spoiler :
Hamburg builds Work Boat
Spoiler :
Cologne builds Catapult (20 base Hammers plus 1-pop-whipping earns us a Catapult near Germany)
Athens builds Granary
Switch Research to Paper.
I'm not sure why our trade with Joao was cancelled, but we should probably just resume the trade:
Crab from Joao <-> Wheat
20 Gold from Joao <-> Code of Laws
Spoiler :
Gift Calendar to Joao
Spoiler :
10 Gold from Mehmed <-> Calendar
Spoiler :
30 Gold from Churchill <-> Code of Laws
Spoiler :
Join Zhuge Liang with HA 5
Chariot 8 can stay aboard Galley 4 until next turn, when Galley 4 can sail into St. Pete's
After Zhuge has spread his XP, HA 11 can move from Galley 5 directly into St. Pete's (for no other good reason than to possibly reduce Unit Supply costs)
Similarly, after Zhuge has spread his XP, Chariot 1 and HA 4 can unload from Galley 3 directly into St. Pete's
Galley 3 (when empty) can then sail 1 SW Fish (2 W of St. Pete's) with the goal of being the start of the next Galley chain
1 Spy to Lisbon
1 Spy to Oporto
6 Spies to Paris' Fur (1 N of the Copper) on their way to the 2nd Big Game
Axeman 4 (in Vlad) moves 1 SW GH For
Spoiler :
Suggestions for T99
London 1-pop-whips Library (so that we don't forget to do it on T100)
London works Fish, Horse, and Fur
York switches the 1 NE + 1 E G Riv For to the Stone
Ruby Bay steals back the 1 SE + 1 S G Riv For
Ruby Bay 1-pop-whips Aqueduct (so that we don't forget to do it on T100)
Settler 8 (in Egypt) moves 2 SW to the Plains square (2 E of the Fish). We can plan to settle 1 S of here (1 SE + 1 E of the Fish) on the following turn, giving us Fish, 2 Gold, and Incense. In this way, once Lisbon falls, we will have left space for a City in northern Africa to grab the Iron and use the seafood along the northern coast of Africa (sharing some of Lisbon's seafood).
Chariot 9 can probably plan to defend Gold City. On it's way there, it could move 1 S P (1 E of the Fish) > 1 SE P Riv to reveal another two hidden squares, then probably move to the Plains square that is 2 S of the eastern Gold Resource to explore the square 2 SW of there.
Spoiler :
Worker 2 moves 1 SW Incense, partial Roads, and STOPS (it can then move to the northern Gold on the following turn)
Worker 8 Unloads on the G For at 2 E of Hamburg (assuming that we don't see any of Stalin's Units on the G for at 3 E of Hamburg)
Worker 9 (in Athens) moves to the GH Mine at 1 NW + 1 N of Athens (to Road it)? Or, should we plan to send it by Galley toward Lyons?
I made the comment about no Ivory early in the turn when I was going through the cities setting builds and or moving citizens around.
I see now, after I uploaded the game, that we do have access to Ivory. It must have happened when the our Chariot in Egypt found the Atlantic Ocean.
Since we are gifting a second city to Hatty we might as well
steal Literature and Music in the new city.
XO Cognac can whip a settler on T99
before we go into revolt.
Orleans is building a settler that finishes on T102 (overflow finishes workboat build).
London, without whipping, finishes the Missionary on T105. If London delays whipping the Library 1 turn. The Missionary can finish on T104, at the cost not working 2 scientists for 1 turn. In the 2 scenarios present above, getting the Missionary done quickly requires that only 1 scientist be worked for 2 turns (while the other would be scientist generates hammers.
Edit I posted before I saw you comments.
Worker 9 might be able to walk to Lyons faster than getting there by galley. I think he should Road the mine.
I was going to have Hamburg start on a Granary (if worker 8 is coming to chop) and delay the Axeman.
In a way Hatty's second settler is good news, Alexandria was building a Cat, Memphis a barracks; it must have been build in Thebes. Therefore, she was not building a Wonder.
Only send a spy to Lisbon, let the other one go to the Big Game. Gift the city to Joao steal Metal Casting. Capture the city on the same turn we gifted it. The, gift City to Hatty and steal her techs?
I will finish up T88 and I agree with most of your suggestions so most of what was posted for T99 (waiting on whipping London). York may not get Stone back until Missionary is completed.
I see now, after I uploaded the game, that we do have access to Ivory. It must have happened when the our Chariot in Egypt found the Atlantic Ocean.
Since we are gifting a second city to Hatty we might as well
steal Literature and Music in the new city. XO Cognac can whip a settler on T99
before we go into revolt.Orleans is building a settler that finishes on T102 (overflow finishes workboat build).
London, without whipping, finishes the Missionary on T105. If London delays whipping the Library 1 turn. The Missionary can finish on T104, at the cost not working 2 scientists for 1 turn. In the 2 scenarios present above, getting the Missionary done quickly requires that only 1 scientist be worked for 2 turns (while the other would be scientist generates hammers.
Edit I posted before I saw you comments.
Worker 9 might be able to walk to Lyons faster than getting there by galley. I think he should Road the mine.
I was going to have Hamburg start on a Granary (if worker 8 is coming to chop) and delay the Axeman.
In a way Hatty's second settler is good news, Alexandria was building a Cat, Memphis a barracks; it must have been build in Thebes. Therefore, she was not building a Wonder.
Only send a spy to Lisbon, let the other one go to the Big Game. Gift the city to Joao steal Metal Casting. Capture the city on the same turn we gifted it. The, gift City to Hatty and steal her techs?
I will finish up T88 and I agree with most of your suggestions so most of what was posted for T99 (waiting on whipping London). York may not get Stone back until Missionary is completed.
Dhoomstriker
Girlie Builder
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It would appear on T101, though, so without a Road on the square where we'd move it to, we can't settle until T102.XO Cognac can whip a settler on T99
I strongly suggest that we do not delay our Golden Age in this way. If we really need another Missionary that quickly, Orleans could build another Monastery instead of a Work Boat, leaving Hamburg to build the Work Boat. Orleans could 2-pop-whip the Monastery with just under 30 Hammers in it, to complete a Missionary quickly after completing the Monastery.
If you want to plan out a Missionary, I suggest that you plan on getting it out of Orleans, after we 2-pop-whip a Settler there.
Optionally, we could get a Settler for north of Athens from somewhere else, but I'm not sure where that somewhere else would be.
At least we'd be at Size 3 in Orleans after 2-pop-whipping a Settler thanks to The Hanging Gardens.
While it's important to get Civil Service, I think that not delaying our Golden Age will be even more important. We're going to want that Golden Age to help us generate a Great Scientist for Lightbulbing Education, possibly 2 such Great Scientists. A little bit faster Bureaucracy when we don't have a large-sized Paris isn't likely going to make up for a delay in Lightbulbing Education.
On that note, at some point, we'll need to build Libraries. We'll probably also want Forges in Cities that will build Libraries and Universities. That's a lot of infrastructure, so it probably means Organized Religion with a well-spread Islam. With any luck, Hatty will spread Islam to our African Cities and they can build Monasteries and Missionaries.
Or, we simply plan to grow 6 Cities, not get Forges, and whip the Cities crazily when it's time to get our Universities.
Here's a visualization of the Russian War Theatre
Spoiler :
Dhoomstriker
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If we agree to send him by Galley, then Galley 7 moves:
T98 2 N
T99 NE > E
T99 Worker moves from Athens onto the Galley
T100 W > NW into Lyons
T100 Worker unloads from the Galley inside of Lyons > moves to the G Riv and starts Farming
If Hamburg whips a Work Boat and we Chop into a Granary, then the population point from The Hanging Gardens can be used to 1-pop-whip the Granary into completion, meaning that we wouldn't have to put any Hammers into the Granary in advance.
Good that it's not The Hanging Gardens. Bad that it's not just about any other Wonder, say, MoM.
I do have a concern that if she settles 2 more Cities, her timing of completing Civil Service may really drag on.
I think that we need to allow Joao to keep Big Game #2 for a couple of turns, at a minimum 1 turn, so that he sends 2 City Defenders to the City from his core Cities.
Oporto is where we could use a Spy the most, so that we could theoretically amphibiously assault the City that provides Joao with access to Iron, but I'm not sure that we'll be able to afford the Commerce to use that many EPs on Joao, especially since we'll probably attack before we get the full 50% Stationary Bonus. But, if we don't send the Spy now, we won't be able to change our minds later.
6 Spies should be enough to steal 4 techs, with Music not really being needed.
As long as we don't delay when we build our Library and we don't delay when we hire our 2 Scientists in London, I don't mind which City works the Stone.
If necessary, once we're at Size 4 in London, we could 1-pop-whip a Missionary, but then we wouldn't be able to work the Fur, so I'm not convinced that it would be a good trade-off.
Orleans can grow quickly, especially with the help of +1 population point, but it will take 4 turns plus 1 turn of Anarchy just to get our Settler finished. Maybe we should just dump the Hammers in Orleans into a Settler, then build a Monastery, then 2-pop-whip the Monastery, then 1-pop-whip a Missionary, then finally 2-pop-whip the Settler.
I'd MUCH rather delay a City settled to the north of Athens than delay the hiring of Scientists in London.
As we wait for that Golden Age to arrive, we're going to be crying and wishing that we'd done everything in our power to get it sooner.
Dhoomstriker
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Even better, how about we just have Orleans work the GH Mine instead of the Iron, build a Monastery now by earning 29 Hammers instead of 31 Hammers, 2-pop-whip the Monastery, and complete a Missionary very quickly thereafter with so many Hammers overflowing.
A Settler could possibly be 3-pop-whipped with the help of the +1 population point.
Then, we can stay 100% focused at London on getting our Great Person as soon as possible.
The loss of 2 Hammers and 1 Commerce by working the GH Mine instead of the GH Riv Iron Mine for 1 turn is much smaller than the loss of 1 Hammer and 4 Commerce each turn for several turns by not working London's Fur, especially with London about to have our second-biggest Science multiplier (35% with a Monastery and a Library).
Hmmm, I had been thinking that St. Pete's had 3 Fish, but it really only will have 1 Fish for the first 10 turns. So, the City will shrink, especially if the Lighthouse gets destroyed (we'll probably have to cold-whip a Lighthouse if it gets destroyed).
So, London really is our only hope for getting out a Great Person anytime soon.
Capturing Moscow will definitely help at St. Pete's, to give St. Pete's more Grassland squares to work, to help with sustaining its citizens.
A resettled Nottingham will be a good location to place MoM by Chopping it out. The trickiest part will be getting Marble from Mehmed. In the meantime, we could plan to be pre-Chopping.
I'd imagine that our Workers would build a Road 1 N of England's Horse, 1 NE + 1 N of England's Horse, and then 1 NE of there, to help our Settling in getting quickly to the new Nottingham location. Those Forests could be pre-Chopped, and we could also pre-Chop other Forests, with or without putting Roads on them.
We'd take a bit of a risk in declaring war on Mehmed, since he could try to bribe in Kublai or Saladin, but Kublai at least doesn't yet have Horseback Riding, so he won't have an army of Kesheks ready to immediately descend upon us and we'd probably be able to fight a skirmish and sue for Peace (Kublai has a Scout in Scaninavia that we could kill off for some War Success, for example).
After Moscow falls, if we get a Cease Fire with Stalin, we could potentially just go attack Mehmed. We'd need Open Borders with Stalin, but declaring war on Mehmed would allow Stalin to Open Borders with us.
Of course, if we feel that we can capture more Russian Cities than just Moscow, we'd do so, but that stack of Russia Units near Yaroslavl' would probably give us some trouble and I'd rather see it getting sent against Mehmed.
I'm at the point where if Frederick asks for a tech, I'd probably suggest giving it to him. We're not really in a position to fight him easily.
So, maybe it's not the brightest of ideas to feed techs to Mehmed, as his days are hopefully numbered and he'll be unlikely to have time to build MoM before we descend upon him.
As for London, instead of a Missionary, after the Library, it might be wise to Chop out a Temple, so that we can hire a 3rd Specialist, to get our Golden Age even sooner. We'd have to complete research on Priesthood on the turn before we were ready to start on a Temple, but it's cheap enough of a tech that we can just complete it. We can finish the Axeman later, with our 4 Chariots taking the Galley at Orleans over to Nottingham, now that they aren't needed at Athens.
A Settler could possibly be 3-pop-whipped with the help of the +1 population point.
Then, we can stay 100% focused at London on getting our Great Person as soon as possible.
The loss of 2 Hammers and 1 Commerce by working the GH Mine instead of the GH Riv Iron Mine for 1 turn is much smaller than the loss of 1 Hammer and 4 Commerce each turn for several turns by not working London's Fur, especially with London about to have our second-biggest Science multiplier (35% with a Monastery and a Library).
Hmmm, I had been thinking that St. Pete's had 3 Fish, but it really only will have 1 Fish for the first 10 turns. So, the City will shrink, especially if the Lighthouse gets destroyed (we'll probably have to cold-whip a Lighthouse if it gets destroyed).
So, London really is our only hope for getting out a Great Person anytime soon.
Capturing Moscow will definitely help at St. Pete's, to give St. Pete's more Grassland squares to work, to help with sustaining its citizens.
A resettled Nottingham will be a good location to place MoM by Chopping it out. The trickiest part will be getting Marble from Mehmed. In the meantime, we could plan to be pre-Chopping.
I'd imagine that our Workers would build a Road 1 N of England's Horse, 1 NE + 1 N of England's Horse, and then 1 NE of there, to help our Settling in getting quickly to the new Nottingham location. Those Forests could be pre-Chopped, and we could also pre-Chop other Forests, with or without putting Roads on them.
We'd take a bit of a risk in declaring war on Mehmed, since he could try to bribe in Kublai or Saladin, but Kublai at least doesn't yet have Horseback Riding, so he won't have an army of Kesheks ready to immediately descend upon us and we'd probably be able to fight a skirmish and sue for Peace (Kublai has a Scout in Scaninavia that we could kill off for some War Success, for example).
After Moscow falls, if we get a Cease Fire with Stalin, we could potentially just go attack Mehmed. We'd need Open Borders with Stalin, but declaring war on Mehmed would allow Stalin to Open Borders with us.
Of course, if we feel that we can capture more Russian Cities than just Moscow, we'd do so, but that stack of Russia Units near Yaroslavl' would probably give us some trouble and I'd rather see it getting sent against Mehmed.
I'm at the point where if Frederick asks for a tech, I'd probably suggest giving it to him. We're not really in a position to fight him easily.
So, maybe it's not the brightest of ideas to feed techs to Mehmed, as his days are hopefully numbered and he'll be unlikely to have time to build MoM before we descend upon him.
As for London, instead of a Missionary, after the Library, it might be wise to Chop out a Temple, so that we can hire a 3rd Specialist, to get our Golden Age even sooner. We'd have to complete research on Priesthood on the turn before we were ready to start on a Temple, but it's cheap enough of a tech that we can just complete it. We can finish the Axeman later, with our 4 Chariots taking the Galley at Orleans over to Nottingham, now that they aren't needed at Athens.
Not much to report that has not been discussed.
T98, 425BC (continued)
Switch to learning Paper.
Renew Crabs for Wheat with Joao, sell him Code of Laws for 20 gold and gift him Calendar.
Sell Mehmed Calendar for 10 gold.
Sell Churchill Code of Laws for 30 gold.
Zhuge tutors Horse Archer 5 in Tactics and helps several other troops improve their skills.
Between Turns: Khan builds a new city.
Hatty, Mehmed, and Darius will trade Priesthood (we have 72/89 invested)
Frederick's troops split into 2 groups as they move off the mine toward Athens.
We are the worst enemy of Frederick.
Joao adopts Caste System.
T99, 400BC
Worker 9 noticing all the Germany troops books passage to Lyons on Galley 7.
Axe 7 leaves York moving to London.
Ruby Bay remains on schedule to build the Hanging Gardens on T101.
There is an interesting black border SE of Athens. Looks like a barbarian city has culture, or 2 barbarian cities are close to each other.
The Log:
Session Turn Log from 425 BC to 400 BC:
Autolog:
The Save.
T98, 425BC (continued)
Switch to learning Paper.
Renew Crabs for Wheat with Joao, sell him Code of Laws for 20 gold and gift him Calendar.
Sell Mehmed Calendar for 10 gold.
Sell Churchill Code of Laws for 30 gold.
Zhuge tutors Horse Archer 5 in Tactics and helps several other troops improve their skills.
Between Turns: Khan builds a new city.
Hatty, Mehmed, and Darius will trade Priesthood (we have 72/89 invested)
Frederick's troops split into 2 groups as they move off the mine toward Athens.
We are the worst enemy of Frederick.
Joao adopts Caste System.
T99, 400BC
Worker 9 noticing all the Germany troops books passage to Lyons on Galley 7.
Axe 7 leaves York moving to London.
Ruby Bay remains on schedule to build the Hanging Gardens on T101.
There is an interesting black border SE of Athens. Looks like a barbarian city has culture, or 2 barbarian cities are close to each other.
The Log:
Session Turn Log from 425 BC to 400 BC:
Spoiler :
Autolog:
Spoiler :
The Save.
Dhoomstriker
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Nicely done.
Hmmm. I can't say that I like that, seeing as how he hates us.
Having avoided taking techs in trade for so long, I think that we can afford to take such a tech in trade. We can get it for 10 Gold from any of them. Maybe from Hatty, since she will put Gold to the best use (putting it toward Research).
Wait, what? Is he just exploring territory that he's never seen? Or, are we about to get attacked and lose all of our troops at Athens?
Very nice.
We're going to have a bit of a challenge with taking down Nottingham, but we'll manage.
Galley 2 will move 1 SW (1 N of Orleans' Cows) and pick up Chariot 17 (at 1 SE of Paris).
Galley 2 then moves 1 N to 1 SE of London.
Chariots 16 and 15 (in Lyons) will move to the G For Road at 1 NE of Paris.
On the following turn, Chariot 17 moves from the sea aboard Galley 2 into London.
Then, Galley 2 sails 1 S to 1 N of Orleans' Cow
Chariots 16 and 15 board Galley 2
Then, Galley 2 sails back 1 N to 1 SE of London
On the turn after that we must declare war on Churchill, to maintain population points in St. Pete's, since the City Revolt counter will be at 0.
I suppose that we should first capture Moscow before declaring war on Churchill, just to see if we want to gift Moscow to Churchill to hang on to temporarily while we go for Rostov.
Galley 2 sails into London and Unloads the two Chariots directly inside of London.
Our Chariots will be able to attack Nottingham in 4 turns' time. Hopefully, Churchill won't whip too many Units during the meantime, although he already has an Archer and an Axeman.
Obviously, Axeman 7 will join the attackers, and Axeman 3 will meanwhile be trying to steal a Worker by ending a turn 2 squares away from the Fur (which has been Roaded but not yet Camped, based on hovering the mouse over the square), then on the following turn capturing the Worker. That said, Churchill's Axeman is missing, so it may be guarding that Worker, so we may instead have to do something tricky such as moving our Woodsman II Axeman to the Sheep to block the path of those Units back to Nottingham, or maybe we can just be happy that they'll both stay on the Fur and thus out of the fight for Nottingham.
Perhaps instead of an Archer in York, we can plan to build a Chariot and 1-pop-whip it, making up for the loss of that population point using the extra population point from The Hanging Gardens, just to give us sufficient Units to be able to take down Nottingham (2 Axemen and 4 Chariots is what we'll have, which is pushing it a bit, but hopefully it will be enough with some trickiness using our Woodsman II Axeman to stop Churchill's Axeman from returning to defend Nottingham).
It looks like Hatty will beat us to the Gold City location, but we tried our best.
After Galley 4 moves into St. Pete's and then Unloads Chariot 8 and HA 7 inside of St. Pete's, we will have 13 full-health, well-Promoted troops that can all move to the Fur at 2 S of St. Pete's this turn:
Woodsmen Units move 1 SE G For Road > 1 SW G Riv Fur For Road
Mounted Units move 1 S G Riv > 1 S G Riv Fur For Road
From there, we'll be outside of the big fat cross of both Moscow and Rostov, so we won't be directly threatening either City. Since we don't yet own St. Pete's, we don't need to defend the City.
Presumably, we'll take down Moscow as our first target, tearing down the Cultural Borders so that St. Pete's won't shrink.
A new Spearman appearing in Moscow is annoying, but we still have more than enough troops to take the City, especially with Stalin's army having moved to 1 SE of Yaroslavl'.
Axeman 4 (at 1 SW of Vlad) will board a Galley this turn, and then wait at 2 N of St. Pete's. Two turns later, we will declare war on Churchill and amphibiously capture St. Pete's with Axeman 4 on the same time that we capture Moscow with our army of 13 Units.
It seems that Munich's Cultural Borders have expanded, so we'll just have to improvise by Galley-chaining Worker 8 (currently aboard Galley 1) to Galley 3, then have Galley 3 head toward Hamburg. On the following turn, we will move Galley 3 into Hamburg and unload Worker 8 there, so that Worker 8 has its movement points and can move to the G For at 1 NE of Cologne.
In this way, each of Hamburg and Cologne will have 1 Forest Chop going into a Granary so that their Granaries can be 1-pop-whipped... the first Chop goes to Hamburg and then we'll Chop the Forest at 1 NW of Cologne into Cologne.
Frederick seems to be ballsy with a Worker at 1 NW of Berlin, but we're not in a position to do much about it.
I'm not sure... should we Demand 10 Gold from Frederick (angering him by -1) to hopefully keep him from declaring war on us for 10 turns (it will work if he accepts; if he refuses, he'll just hate us by -1)? We're not going to be ready to fight him for about that amount of time, with our forces tied up in Russia, then possibly going for Mehmed, or perhaps just Cease Firing with Stalin while we heal and then resuming the war with Stalin, while we build up some new troops to go for Joao (Chariots will not be sufficient for Joao--remember how Yakutsk required 4 Chariots, 3 Horse Archers, and 1 Axeman to defeat 3 Hills Archers with a 0% Cultural Defence? It'll be even tougher to attack Joao, so we'll probably need a couple of War Elephants and a Catapult or two), while our remaining existing troops deal with Nottingham. That leaves nothing for Frederick, so 10 turns of enforced Peace with Frederick is probably the best situation that we can hope for.
We do still have Open Borders with Frederick, so the Chariot that went to Hamburg could either go by Galley chain or go by land toward Russia.
Maybe it makes sense to set up a Galley chain so that we can leave a couple of Units defending St. Pete's once we capture it from Churchill.
Joe, are you continuing?
Pete, it seems like you, Dhoomstriker and I are the only ones participating. Can you take over on Monday? That should be just before the battle to capture Moscow occurs.
Also, you will get to kick Churchill out of England
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