SGOTM 23 - Xteam

  • Paris can 3-pop whip a Settler T100 (T99 if steal back Cow for 1 turn). Works settler T97, then Archer/Courthouse T98-99.
  • XO Cognac can 3-pop whip a Settler T103. Works settler T97, then Courthouse T98-T102
  • York can 2-pop Whip a settler T105
  • Argent can 2-pop whip a settler T103 or T104 depending on other builds
Hamburg and Cologne each need a granary before they will be producing many more troops.
 
  • Paris can 3-pop whip a Settler T100 (T99 if steal back Cow for 1 turn). Works settler T97, then Archer/Courthouse T98-99.
  • XO Cognac can 3-pop whip a Settler T103. Works settler T97, then Courthouse T98-T102
  • York can 2-pop Whip a settler T105
  • Argent can 2-pop whip a settler T103 or T104 depending on other builds
Hamburg and Cologne each need a granary before they will be producing many more troops.
I'd suggest that we just keep whipping Units out of the ex-German Cities until we've been able to get some Workers over there to do some Chopping. A Granary (or a partially-completed one) won't help us if Frederick gets into a war with us and manages to recapture a City, or if Stalin makes his way around Munich before we're ready to Cease Fire with Stalin and we decide to gift Hamburg to Churchill or Joao for temporary safe-keeping.

The netted Fish will help with maintaining regular Unit production while we wait to get Workers to be able to Chop out Granaries in those 2 Cities, with us probably alternating which City gets to work the Fish at Size 2.

We're also going to need to factor in 2 turns of Anarchy, one on T96 for Christianity, and one on T97 or later for Hereditary Rule + Pacifism.

I'm not sure when it would be best to take the 2nd turn of Anarchy--the sooner that we get into Hereditary Rule + Pacifism, the sooner that we'll benefit from the extra Happiness and the sooner that London will start accumulating extra GPP.

But, whatever turn we pick is a turn where we won't be producing Units, and we also have to worry about other minor details, such as the timing of whipping Ruby Bay's Aqueduct, and delaying The Hanging Gardens by 1 turn with the extra turn of Anarchy.

I suppose that we'll just have to look at the situation on T97 to see if we can afford a turn of Anarchy at that time or if we'll have to delay when we select our Civics.


Now that you've sold me on the idea of using Chariots for Military Police Units, you seem to have gone with my idea of using Archers for Military Police Units. ;) I'm liking your approach of using Chariots, and if we find that they end up costing too many Hammers, we can temporarily gift away Copper and Iron, build some el-cheapo Warriors, and then even send the Chariots into battle.


Are we still going to get a Spy out of XO Cognac after the Settler that we just whipped? Expect some of the Spies to die. If we steal half of the techs and 1/3rd of our Spies survive, we'll need more Spies just to get the techs mentioned, and that list doesn't include Music, nor does it include any future techs that Hatty may learn.
 
Based on a quick review, Anarchy on T100 might let Ruby Bay complete Hanging Gardens on Schedule (T101). On T97 Ruby is switching to an Aqueduct and getting 2 chops.

Switching Archer to Chariot.

Suggested mini PPP:
Diplo Policy
Christianity? No
Stop trading with another AI? No
Give an AI a Strategic Resource? No.
Give an AI a Happiness or a Healthiness Resource? Yes.
Requests for two-sided trades or Open Borders should be refused.
Requests for Peace should be refused.
Give an AI a tech? No to Churchill, no to Frederick (in case we attack him within 10 turns), no for Horseback Riding, yes otherwise
Join a war? No
Trade a tech for a tech and/or Gold? No--let's discuss tech trades and put them in a PPP

Reasons for stopping:
We meet a new AI;
One of our Cities is threatened;
Something in the plan sounds wrong;

Turn 95, 500 BC
Research Rate: 100% (Polythesim)
Espionage Rate 0% (on Hatty)
Do not Open Borders with Joao.

Paris
build: switch Archer > Chariot Works: Deer, Copper, Fur, Wheat

Galley 3 sails 1W (1 SE of Yakutsk and Blockades
Galley 1 sails 2 E (to 1 NW of St. Pete's) to pick up HA 7

Egypt Settler move 1 S P Ivory > 1 NW DesH (1 NE of the Fish)

Other Units move as discussed.

Axe 3 remains active on Fur

Turn 96, 475 BC
Research Rate: 0%
Espionage Rate 0% (on Hatty)
Do not Open Borders with Joao.

Paris: build: Chariot (switch to settler T97)
Works: Deer, Copper, Fur, Wheat, G For

XO Cognac: build: Completes Settler > Spy (completed T98) Works: Fish, Cow, Horse, Stone

Orleans: build: Spy (1 pop whip T97, not many cities close to new city) Works: Fish, Cow, Iron

Lyons: build: Chariot (switch to Galley T97) Works: Fish, Fur

London: build: Library (2-pop whip T98) Works: Fish, Horse, Fur

York: build: Axeman Works: Fish, Stone

Argent: build: Granary Works: Fish

Hamburg: build: Axeman Works: Sheep, G For

Cologne: build: Chariot (1-pop whip T97) Works: Sheep, Iron

Ruby Bay: build: Granary (switch to Aqueduct T97) Works: Fish, Gem Mine

Macau: build: Reseach Works: Cottage

Worker 1 Builds Road (1NW of Paris)
Worker 2 Partial Farms (1NW Lyons) and STOPS
Worker 3 Chops (1W Argent) (if needs 2 chops to finish otherwise waits till T97)
Worker 7 Chops (1S Iron) (if needs 2 chops to finish otherwise waits till T97)
Ruby Bay (T96) Reminder the Forests need to be "enabled" before Chop is finished.
Worker 4 Chop the G For at 1 SW of Ruby Bay
Worker 5 Chop the G Riv For and STOPS
Worker 6 Chop the G For (1 N of York) and STOPS

Missionary moves 4SW (1SW Paris). Next turn, Missionary moves into Macau and spreads the faith, before Macau is gifted.

XO Cognac Settler moves to 1E Macau

Chariot 9 could move 1 NW P > 1 NW P

Capture and Raze Yakutsk

~~~~~~~ Stop Here ~~~~~~~~

Revolt to Christianity ( at very end of Turn)

Axe 3 remains active on Fur

Turn 97, 450 BC
 
Other Units move as discussed.
Just to clarify, is that with going for Yekaterinburg immediately or with conserving our forces until we have more healthy Horse Archers in the area and also hoping to be able to go after a more valuable City target?


Based on a quick review, Anarchy on T100 might let Ruby Bay complete Hanging Gardens on Schedule (T101).
Fair enough. If we need the Happiness sooner, it'll probably be worth delaying The Hanging Gardens by 1 turn. The extra 6 GPP might also save us a turn for getting our Great Person. Would revolting on T97 mess up the plan for building The Hanging Gardens? I don't think so, because we wanted 3 Chops going into the Aqueduct (two on T97 and one on T98) before 1-pop-whipping the Aqueduct, right?


For T95, I'd also suggest:
Gift Mysticism to Mehmed to try to get him up to Cautious toward us
Try to bribe Mehmed against Stalin for Currency

T96
If Mehmed wasn't up to Cautious with Mysticism, we could try gifting him Meditation and even Polytheism to get him up to Cautious so that we can try bribing him into war with Stalin
If Mehmed wouldn't go to war with Stalin for just Currency, we can also try offering Meditation and/or Polytheism to get Mehmed to go to war with Stalin

EDIT: If we are able to bribe Mehmed into a war, it would also be helpful to ask him to attack one of Stalin's Cities, such as Rostov.

With any luck, by retreating all of our Units from Stalin's Cultural Borders and by bribing Mehmed to attack Stalin, Stalin will send his non-City-defending troops toward Mehmed.

T96
If we manage to bribe Mehmed against Stalin, then we can try trading:
Monotheism from Darius <-> Alphabet (such a trade is likely to further anger Mehmed)


Macau: build: Reseach
That's a good idea, although Wealth is probably generally preferred seeing as how we have an Academy, a Library, and a Monastery, but we don't have any Gold-multiplying Buildings (such as Markets).


Worker 3 Chops (1W Argent) (if needs 2 chops to finish otherwise waits till T97)
Worker 7 Chops (1S Iron) (if needs 2 chops to finish otherwise waits till T97)
Worker 5 Chop the G Riv For and STOPS
Worker 6 Chop the G For (1 N of York) and STOPS
Each of these Workers has the same amount of progress in Chopping, so we'd want to have them all Chop and then stop on T96, so that we can wait until after stealing Mathematics before finishing their Chops on T97. BUFFY may automatically stop them if the right setting is enabled, but it doesn't hurt to confirm that this setting worked.


Next turn, Missionary moves into Macau and spreads the faith, before Macau is gifted.
Spreading before gifting the City is a good precaution, on the off chance that Hatty were to switch into Theocracy (which would prevent us from spreading Christianity there) or if the City were to get a conflicting Religion (which would mean that we'd have slightly lower odds of spreading if the City belonged to an AI instead of to us).


I'd also suggest pushing HA 9 toward Athens on T95, so that we'll reveal Athens one turn sooner than if we were to go in a stack with our Chariots.
 
Just to clarify, is that with going for Yekaterinburg immediately or with conserving our forces until we have more healthy Horse Archers in the area and also hoping to be able to go after a more valuable City target?
I will be conserving forces (except for attack on Yakutsk) waiting to Attack Moscow. T95 Troops by Vlad will move into Vlad (except medic and healing Horse Archer)

About Ruby Bay
Would revolting on T97 mess up the plan for building The Hanging Gardens? I don't think so, because we wanted 3 Chops going into the Aqueduct (two on T97 and one on T98) before 1-pop-whipping the Aqueduct, right?
I am not sure about what happens because T96 we are in Anarchy. T97 Ruby Bay switches from Granary to Aqueduct. If we go into Anarchy again have we switched or do the chops end-up in the Granary? The T98 chop is needed so we can 1-pop whip on T99. I guess we could go into Anarchy on T99. I would definitely want to test before committing to a T97 Anarchy. With the second Anarchy it looks like we can build the Hanging Gardens on T101 with zero (0) overflow.
For T95, I'd also suggest:
Gift Mysticism to Mehmed to try to get him up to Cautious toward us
Try to bribe Mehmed against Stalin for Currency


T96
If Mehmed wasn't up to Cautious with Mysticism, we could try gifting him Meditation and even Polytheism to get him up to Cautious so that we can try bribing him into war with Stalin
If Mehmed wouldn't go to war with Stalin for just Currency, we can also try offering Meditation and/or Polytheism to get Mehmed to go to war with Stalin

EDIT: If we are able to bribe Mehmed into a war, it would also be helpful to ask him to attack one of Stalin's Cities, such as Rostov.

With any luck, by retreating all of our Units from Stalin's Cultural Borders and by bribing Mehmed to attack Stalin, Stalin will send his non-City-defending troops toward Mehmed.

T96
If we manage to bribe Mehmed against Stalin, then we can try trading:
Monotheism from Darius <-> Alphabet (such a trade is likely to further anger Mehmed)
I was going to ask if it was T95 to gift and bribe on Mehmed. Also, will see about trading with Darius on T96.

Not mentioned Galley 7 will unload the Chariots and sail back to 2 S of Lyons to be in place to pick up settler.
 
I am not sure about what happens because T96 we are in Anarchy. T97 Ruby Bay switches from Granary to Aqueduct. If we go into Anarchy again have we switched or do the chops end-up in the Granary?
The Chops won't end up anywhere.

In BtS, when you Chop, the Hammers don't immediately get assigned to a build item like they did in Vanilla. Instead, you see "From chopping: 20 H" when you hover your mouse over top of the production that will go into a build item (or 30 H instead of 20 H).

If you're in Anarchy, the Chops stay in that exact same status until you are out of Anarchy. So, if you Chop on T97 and go into Anarchy on T97, the Chops will stay in limbo until we are out of Anarchy; at the start of T98, you would see "From chopping: 60 H" when hovering your mouse over top of the production that will go into a build item. If you also Chopped on T98, then you would see "From chopping: 90 H."

You would never actually earn those Hammers until you put in 1 turn of production on a build item when out of Anarchy. So, yes, we can choose to dump 90 Hammers plus whatever Hammers the City makes (3 or 5) on T98 into an Aqueduct.


I was going to ask if it was T95 to gift and bribe on Mehmed. Also, will see about trading with Darius on T96.
Yes, try on T95, but I'm not sure whether:
1. Mysticism will be sufficient to get Mehmed up to Cautious
OR
2. Whether Currency will be a sufficient reward to be able to bribe Mehmed against Stalin
OR
3. Whether Mehmed will even feel strong enough to attack Stalin (Alex was pretty adventuresome in the early game when we were fighting on his side, but it's not a guarantee that Mehmed will act the same way--I think that it's worth trying, though)

Basically, it's not a guaranteed plan, but if we can get Mehmed to be our war ally against Stalin as soon as T95, that's great, and if we can only do it on T96, that's still pretty good.


EDIT: To take the Chopping Hammers example even further, if you have overflow Hammers or Hammers from Chopping, if you were to build Wealth or Research, only the base Hammers that you earned on the current turn would get converted to Wealth or Research. On the following turn, if you picked a different build item, you'd still see "From chopping" and "Overflow from previous build:" items when hovering your mouse over top of the production that will go into a build item.
 
Took a quick look at the saved game and things look pretty good.

Note that after 1 turn of Anarchy, Paris won't have an Unhappy citizen, so we may want to keep growing the City instead of building a Settler right away.

Orleans will make 29 + 8 = 37 Hammers in a Spy. If we, say, switch the Fish to the GH For for a turn (which won't count until T97, even if we make the switch on T96), we could have Cologne steal Orleans' Fish for 1 turn, and then get 40 Hammers in the Spy of two non-Anarchy turns. Presumably, we'd get the Work Boat later after 2-pop-whipping a different build item?

It looks like you got Mehmed into a war with Stalin and Darius will give us Monotheism + 10 Gold <-> Alphabet, so I'd suggest that we take him up on that offer.

As for the Settler in Egypt, Memphis' Cultural Borders will expand in 6 turns, meaning that we won't be able to steal a Flood Plains square or a Stone square. With a shortage of Workers under our control, I'd suggest that we settle 1 S on the P Ivory (1 E of a Fish and 1 NW of another Fish) and start building a Work Boat. I'm not sure if it would be better to work the other Ivory square or to work a Fish--it'll be easier to tell after we've settled, but since we'll be in Anarchy on T96, we can make the decision on T97 (or you can just take a look before Anarchy on T96 and give your opinion).

We'll either need a Road to one of Egypt's Roads or else we'll need a revealed coastal path in order to connect up Ivory with the rest of our empire for the extra Happiness.


Our Yakutsk Units sure took a beating in terms of Health; I'm glad that you thought to put the extra Horse Archer on Galley 1.


We can probably keep Warrior 1 around (on the GH For at 1 E of the razed Yakutsk) to spawn-bust the area, then we'll need to figure out where to send our troops... into St. Pete's would give us a superior place to heal, as our Units wouldn't need to lose a movement point unloading and could heal faster inside of the City, but we might attract Stalin's attention there; I'm not sure if it was coincidence that he sent an Axeman past there--was it to attack our wounded HA 7 inside of St. Pete's or was it just walking past as his Chariot there now seems to be doing?

We'll also need to figure out a location where we can distribute the Great General's Experience Points.

One potential advantage of gathering inside of St. Pete's is that it's still 2 turns away for mounted Units plus Woodsman II Units to reach Moscow, while the Fur at 2 S of St. Pete's is equally 2 turns away from either Moscow or Rostov, allowing us to pick a target after moving.


Frederick appears to be stopping to Pillage as he heads toward Athens. I'm not sure what the best approach will be, but maybe we'd end up bribing Frederick off of Alex if Alex doesn't build more City Defenders. We should be able to handle a single Archer, but if another Archer appears, we wouldn't be able to take the City with our small attack force, so there would be a risk in calling Frederick off of Alex. Anyway, with Frederick Pillaging as he goes, we have a bit of time to make the decision.
 
I'm sorry I have not been active in the discussion. Just :) :) :) :):) :) :) :):) :) :) :):) :) :) :) going on irl.

I see that we have started wars. I approve of that. Do we really need 3 settlers at the same time?
 
Techs
Shall we decide upon an order of priority for our tech thefts?

I'd currently suggest:
1. Code of Laws (needed for Civil Service and Philosophy)
2. Philosophy (needed to get a Great Person for our Golden Age)
3. Monarchy (yes, it's a non-monopoly tech, and thus it would be tradeable, but we could use the Happiness already, and we have nothing to trade for it except for Gold, and Gold is too valuable to splurge on techs, since Gold will allow us to stay at a 100% Science Rate on our tech beeline)
4. Mathematics (it's needed for Civil Service, but several AIs have it, so if we can't steal it, we'll probably be able to trade for it from some AI out there after several more turns--Stalin will learn it in 7 turns, although not getting it now would mess up our Workers' Chopping and would delay when we could start researching Civil Service)
5. Construction (because if I don't put it here, Cactus Pete will complain about not getting his Catapults)
6. Theology (to unlock Paper if Hatty goes for Civil Service; if she goes for Civil Service and we don't get Theology, I'm not yet sure what we would tech--maybe we'd just accumulate more EPs against both Hatty and Joao)
7. Calendar (I doubt that we'll get this many successful Spies, although it would be useful to have so that we could plop a Settler on Spice Island)
8. Aesthetics (possibly available for trade from Joao if another AI learns it)
9. Literature

Obviously, when a Spy fails, we repeat the attempt to steal the same tech, with the techs higher on the list being the ones to ensure that we get first. The order of the techs is up for debate, but once we decide upon the order, let's make sure that we get those techs in that order.

When exactly to use the 40% (or lower) Stationary Bonus Spies is debateable, but given the above tech order, I'd suggest using them on Monarchy and Mathematics, since those techs will be the cheaper ones of the techs that we're likely to be able to successfully steal.
In the unlikely event we do not get the first 4 techs on our list I would prefer to have Mathematics instead of Monarchy. I believe that because of all the Scheduling around when chops are coming in and trying to beat some AI's to the Hanging Gardens, it would be better to know Mathematics and have to wait till T100 to steal Monarchy than vise versa.

We could just revolt into Pacifism now and revolt later (after we learn Civil Service) into Bureaucracy and Hereditary rule.

As for when to use the lower Stationary Bonus Spies, I agree use them on Math and Monarchy.

In retrospect, we should have spent about 150 EPs on Joao, we could have gifted him Macau on T97 stolen Metal Casting taken Macau back and Gifted it to Hatty for more stealing :D

Other Matters
I agree with building on the Elephant. As soon as we locate Thebes we might have a route to Paris.

Can some one else Play the next turn? Even before the beating I took at Yakutsk, I had a feeling my pseudo RNG would start getting even with me. :crazyeye:
 
Welcome back, Folket! :)


In the unlikely event we do not get the first 4 techs on our list I would prefer to have Mathematics instead of Monarchy.
I think that you have made a great case, so please swap the order of priority of those two techs.


In retrospect, we should have spent about 150 EPs on Joao, we could have gifted him Macau on T97 stolen Metal Casting taken Macau back and Gifted it to Hatty for more stealing :D
I do not regret that we did not involve Joao in this round, as it would be nice to have an army in place for Oporto when we do so.

In fact, I would be in favour of an approach such as the following:
1. Take down Athens
2. Continue to build Galleys out of Lyons and get a force ready on them
3. 3 to 4 turns before we are ready to assault Oporto, gift the north-west-settled City to Joao
4. Optionally, but probably not necessary for 1 or 2 techs, spread Christianity into that City
5. Open Borders with Joao
6. Steal Metal Casting from Joao
7. Let Joao keep the City for 3 to 4 turns (after 5 turns of owning the City, he'd have been able to whip an Archer there, with 5 Food per turn and only needing 19 Food to get to Size 2)
8. Watch as Joao hopefully starts sending troops toward that north-west City and possibly even starts building a Road toward that north-west City
9. Optionally, also gift Joao a City somewhere else (Yekaterinburg?) to keep him alive, whether for having another AI to whom to gift placeholder Cities or to keep him around as an option for a Friendly-through-Liberation AI at the end of the game
10. Either amphibiously-assault Oporto or land next to it
11. Either capture and keep or capture and raze Oporto--we can decide closer to that time based on things such as whether we have settled a Spice Island or whether we'd rather resettle Oporto to include Spice Island in its big fat cross and to put a Fort on Spice Island

The tricky part with this plan is that Hatty doesn't factor into it until after we've declared war on Joao and have recaptured the north-west City to gift to her. That is, unless we're going to gift the City to her and recapture it from her.

In thinking about it some more, we either need to keep the City for at least 5 turns or else an AI has to keep the City for at least 4 turns so that the City reaches Size 2. I am not 100% positive, but I do not think that an AI is allowed to whip a City on the turn that it first grows to Size 2.

If we're going to gift the City without having grown it to Size 2 ourselves, we'll need to test to see whether we have a one-turn window in which to attack the City before it would get whipped (Hatty couldn't whip it, but she would spread her Culture there if she got the City first, which might ruin much of our Culture discount, so if we can't grow the City to Size 2 ourselves, then Joao is the preferred initial gift target).

Note that if we have an AI grow the City to Size 2 for us, we still need to put in 1 turn of Culture into the City, otherwise we won't get the Culture discount (we need 1 or more Culture in the City).


As soon as we locate Thebes we might have a route to Paris.
Failing that, we build a Road to one of Hatty's Roads, as we already have Trade Routes with Hatty.


Even before the beating I took at Yakutsk, I had a feeling my pseudo RNG would start getting even with me.
I don't see a problem there. I think that you did a great job in the latest attack and you appear to have preserved all of our Horse Archers, which I didn't think would even be possible! My computer certainly doesn't have any particular tendency toward good luck, but if you really don't want to play it, I can play it, since Cactus Pete already indicated that he's not comfortable with the tech-stealing turnset.

If "bad luck" is your only objection, I encourage you to see the next turnset through, since it really is your baby--you're the one who rightfully insisted that we stay on track for a T97-tech-theft approach and you're the one who set it up to go off so smoothly.


Folket said:
Do we really need 3 settlers at the same time?
Yes, we really do need that many Settlers and more, to grab Resources in valuable locations. In hindsight, I think that we built far too few Settlers and we could have gotten away with a lot more aggressive REXing at the start of the game. We could have gifted several Desert Cities to Hatty (it's still not too late to do so) and gotten her up to Friendly for tech-trading purposes.

It's actually still not too late to follow that approach, letting her keep Macau for the long term and only using the north-west City on Joao, gifting junk Cities in the middle of the Desert to Hatty to get her up to Friendly status, and aiming to trade for all of the techs that we aren't able to steal.

It certainly seems easier to set up a couple of City gifts that will give us Liberation credit than it does to manage another tech-theft City for Hatty.

We'd then plan to steal both Metal Casting and Aesthetics from Joao and get the techs that we can't steal from Hatty via trading with a Friendly Hatty.
 
I am working on a PPP. I guess I can play a few more turns (real life is starting to intrude).
 
Sounds good. I'm starting to think about how to best use our Great General.

Let's look at how much XP will be required for Promotions on various Units near the front lines:
Near Yakutsk:
HA 7: 4 XP to get 1 Promo
HA 8: 3 XP to get 2 Promos
HA 10: 3 XP to get 2 Promos
Axeman 6: 1 XP to get 1 Promo (for Woodsman II) or 5 XP for 2 Promos
Chariot 8: 5 XP to get 1 Promo
Warrior 1: 4 XP to get 2 Promos and a free upgrade to an Axeman or a Spearman if we make it our Great General


Near Vlad:
HA 4: 1 XP to get 1 Promo
HA 5: 3 XP to get 1 Promo
Axe 4: 1 XP to get 1 Promo, but he won't be able to get Woodsman II
Axe 5: 3 XP to get 1 Promo
Chariot 1: 4 XP to get 1 Promo
Chariot 5: 2 XP to get 1 Promo, 6 XP to get 2 Promos
Chariot 6: 2 XP to get 1 Promo, 6 XP to get 2 Promos
Chariot 7: 2 XP to get 1 Promo, 6 XP to get 2 Promos

Let's take one scenario where we will promote 5 Units with 4 XP each:
i. HA 7: 4 XP to get 1 Promo
ii. HA 8: 3 XP to get 2 Promos
iii. HA 10: 3 XP to get 2 Promos
iv. Axeman 6: 1 XP to get 1 Promo (for Woodsman II, if we use his current Promo on Woodsman I)
v. Warrior 1: 4 XP and becomes the Great General for a free Upgrade to a Woodsman II Axeman

The downside here is that I don't have a good replacement Unit for Warrior 1 that will become our spawn-buster, and it also uses up a full turn to Upgrade a Great General Unit for "free," so there's the cost of a turn of movement. Of course, we could simply pick another Unit than Warrior 1, but then we have even less Units which would need as many as 4 XP. So, perhaps an approach where we spread out the XP even further will be better.

Here's another scenario where we promote 7 Units, 6 of them getting 3 XP each and a fourth one getting 2 XP. The Unit that is listed the furthest to the right in the list of Units once all of our Units have gathered together will be the one to get 2 XP. If the Unit that is listed furthest to the right is a Unit that we really want to get 3 XP, then we have some options:
1. One of the Units leaves the stack and 4 Units get 3 XP while the first 2 Units get 4 XP. However, if we're going to go with this scenario, we should probably simply plan to go for it
OR
2. We attach the Great General to the last Unit in the list, so that the second-last Unit in the list only gets 2 XP. Nope, I tested this scenario and the last Unit in the stack will STILL just get 2 XP.
OR
3. Since Chariots will be listed after Horse Archers and Axemen, we ensure that the Chariots that we want to Promote only require 2 XP. This last condition seems quite easy to satisfy, since we have multiple Chariots that could benefit from 2 XP.

So, that would mean Promoting:
i. HA 4: 1 XP to get 1 Promo
ii. HA 5: 3 XP to get 1 Promo
iii. HA 8: 3 XP to get 2 Promos
iv. HA 10: 3 XP to get 2 Promos
v. Axe 5: 3 XP to get 1 Promo (probably Woodsman III, since First Strikes are great to use for a top-defender-cracker)
vi. Axeman 6: 1 XP to get 1 Promo (for Woodsman II)
vii. Chariot 5: 2 XP to get 1 Promo

I don't see the point in a 6-Unit scenario, since we only have HA 7 out of our Horse Archers who could use 4 XP.

An 8-Unit Scenario would mean 4 Units getting 3 XP and 4 Units getting 2 XP. Since Axeman 5 would need 3 XP, we would have to remove one of the Horse Archers, probably HA 5, since HA 5 only needs 1 XP and he could earn that XP in a battle. Someone might argue that it could be worth going for Yekaterinburg just to get 1 more Promotion on HA 5, but HA 5 could equally die, so I think that we're better staying focused on Moscow and Rostov. Plus, 1 extra Promo won't help if the Unit is too badly wounded to join in on the Moscow and Rostov flank-attack.

Thus, we'd have these 8 Units getting promoted:
i. HA 5: 3 XP to get 1 Promo
ii. HA 8: 3 XP to get 2 Promos
iii. HA 10: 3 XP to get 2 Promos
iv. Axe 5: 3 XP to get 1 Promo (probably Woodsman III, since First Strikes are great to use for wounding a City's top defender)
v. Axeman 6: 1 XP to get 1 Promo (for Woodsman II)
vi. Chariot 5: 2 XP to get 1 Promo
vii. Chariot 6: 2 XP to get 1 Promo
viii. Chariot 7: 2 XP to get 1 Promo


Whichever scenario we pick (I'm leaning toward the 8-Unit scenario), we would need to get all of those Units, plus our Great General, minus all of our Galleys, on the same square as each other (I recommend inside of St. Pete's) on a turn when our Great General has at least 1 movement point available to him. Those logistics will be easy to plan out, right? :lol: :crazyeye: :eek: :mischief: :D

Presumably, Axeman 4, who can't become Woodsman II and thus can't travel with our army, will get on a Galley and will eventually amphibiously capture St. Pete's from Churchill. He can probably wait for the Road to appear on the GH For at 1 SW of Vlad before he moves to a Galley.

Testing shows that it is the turn when the City Revolt counter would be at 0 when we'd need to capture St. Pete's. T96 + 5 = T101 is when we'd have to declare war on Churchill in order to ensure that we maintain all of St. Pete's population points.

That gives us until as long as T101 to move troops out of St. Pete's, although ideally, if possible, we'll move out before then, as delaying our next City capture simply delays all future warring.


High-Level Version of the Logistics
That means these Units arriving from Hamburg/Yakutsk:
Zhuge Liang (Great General)
HA 8
HA 10
Axe 6

Axe 5 taking a Galley from Vlad

These Units marching from Vlad:
HA 5
Chariot 5
Chariot 6
Chariot 7

The Units marching from Vlad could move to the Grassland at 1 NE + 1 N of St. Pete's on T96 and arrive in St. Pete's one turn later on T97.

Galley 4 is used to chain Zhuge to Galley 5.

Galley 5 also takes HA 8.

Galley 1 transfers Axe 6 to Galley 3.

Galley 3 (with Axe 6 aboard) sails 2 E then also picks up Axe 5 on T96. Galley 3 will unload both Axemen inside of St. Pete's on T97.

Galley 1 moves to join Galley 5 at 2 S of the Ex-Yakutsk.
Galley 1 will then take HA 10 only.

Galley 4 will pick up the straggling Chariot 8 and HA 7.

Our Great General will be used on T98.

All Units will then join the stack by the end of T98, while the Units who received Promotions will get a turn of healing after having Promoted (yay, Woodsman III + City healing).

On T99, we march to the Fur at 2 S of St. Pete's.

On T100, we choose between gathering on the GH For at 1 W of Moscow or we gather 2 S on Rostov's Fur.

On T101, we capture either Moscow or Rostov.



EDIT:
I'm working on the detailed version of the Unit logistics around the Hamburg + Vlad area.

When looking at our Cities, I noticed that we have HA 11 inside of Cologne. If we manage to steal Construction, we'll be able to board Galley 4 alongside of Zhuge on T97.

So, we'll just need to perform our tech stealing before doing our logistics on T97.

If we take Jersey Joe's idea of delaying Monarchy even more, we can make the following our tech theft order:
1. Code of Laws
2. Philosophy
3. Mathematics
4. Construction
5. Monarchy
6. Theology
7. Calendar
8. Aesthetics
9. Literature

Construction allows us to get 1 more Horse Archer into the fight for Moscow, since Horse Archer 11 can join Zhuge on the Galley chain on T97. It also gives us Catapults and eventually War Elephants. Monarchy coming later may mean 2 turns of Anarchy to switch into it later (since it will cost us 2 turns of Anarchy once we have 13 or more Cities to switch into 2 Civics), but we can probably make do without the extra Happiness for a while longer if we are able to whip Courthouses and Catapults.
 
Diplo Policy
Christianity? Yes
Stop trading with another AI? No
Give an AI a Strategic Resource? No.
Give an AI a Happiness or a Healthiness Resource? Yes.
Requests for two-sided trades or Open Borders should be refused.
Requests for Peace should be refused.
Give an AI a tech? No to Churchill, no to Frederick (in case we attack him within 10 turns), no for Horseback Riding, yes otherwise
Join a war? No
Trade a tech for a tech and/or Gold? No--let's discuss tech trades and put them in a PPP

Reasons for stopping:
We meet a new AI;
One of our Cities is threatened;
Something in the plan sounds wrong;

Turn 96, 475 BC

Research Rate: 100% PriestHood
Espionage Rate 0% (on Hatty)
Do not Open Borders with Joao.

Trade Alphabet to Darius for Monotheism + 10 Gold.

Orleans
build: Spy
Works: Cow, Iron. GH Mine (Fish to Cologne for 1 Turn)

Cologne
build: Chariot
Works: Sheep, Fish

Relocate Card game sign ;)

Galley 7 (by Lyons) unloads 2 Chariots 1 SE PH (Gems?). Galley 7 sails 1 W > 1SW (to 2 S Lyons)
Galley ? (4 S of Lyons stays in place)

Our Settler in Egypt moves 1 S P Ivory and Builds City (Ivory Coast) Starts building a Workboat

Galley 1 stays at 1 SE Yak ruins.
Galley 3 sails 1 SW and Stops (2 S Yak ruins)
Galley 5 sails 2 SW (1 NE Hamburg)


Revolt to Christianity ( at very end of Turn)

Axe 3 remains active on Fur

Turn 97, 450 BC
Research Rate: 100% (Civil Service)

Espionage Rate 0% (on Hatty)
Do not Open Borders with Joao.
Do not Gift Macau until Missionary spreads religion.

Paris
build: switch to Settler
Works: Deer, Copper, Fur, Wheat, Cottage (steal from Macau)

XO Cognac
build: Spy
Works: Fish, Cow, Horse

Orleans
build: Spy
Works: Cow, Iron, GH Mine (Fish to Cologne for 1 turn)

Lyons
build: Galley
Works: Fish, Fur, Wine

London
build: Library (2-pop whip T98)
Works: Fish, Horse, Fur

York
build: Axeman
Works: Fish

Argent:
build: Granary
Works: Fish

Hamburg
build: Axeman
Works: Sheep, G For

Cologne
build: Chariot
Works: Sheep, Fish

Ruby Bay
build: Switch Granary to Aqueduct when learn Mathematics
Works: Fish, Gem Mine

Macau (at least before it is Gifted to Hatty)
build: Research
Works: River G

Worker 1 Finishes Road (1NW of Paris)
Worker 2 moves 1SE into Lyons > 1SW G > 1SE boarding Galley 7
Worker 3 waits till math is learned then Chops (1W Argent)
Worker 7 waits till math is learned then Chops
Ruby Bay (T97) Reminder makes sure Forests are "enabled" before finishing Chop.
Worker 4 Chop the G For at 1 SW of Ruby Bay and Stops
Worker 5 After Learn Mathematics Finish Chop the G Riv For
Worker 6 After Learn Mathematics Finish Chop the G For (1 N of York)

Promotions:
Chariot 8 (Combat II) can promote to ? (Combat III, maybe Formation, another Medic)?
Horse Archer 7 (Combat I) receives Shock promotion.

XO Cognac Settler moves 1 SE boarding Galley 7.
Galley 7 sails 2S and transfers Settler and Worker to Galley ?.
Galley ? Sails 2 SW to netted Fish (2SE of Oporto)

Galley 4 sails 1SW into Hamburg, Zhuge boards Galley 4
Galley 4 sails 1 NE, Zhuge transfers to Galley 5
Chariot 8 moves 1SE boarding Galley 3
Galley 5 sails 2NE, Zhuge transfers to Galley 3
Galley 3 sails 1NE, Zhuge transfers to Galley 1
Horse Archer 7 moves 1SE boarding Galley 3
Galley 3 sails 1 E
Galley 1 sails 2 E, Zhuge unloads 1 NE (1 SW Vlad)
The 2 Horse Archers at 1 SW of Yak ruins move 1SE boarding Galley 5 (maybe they should remain in place to heal and board Galley next turn?)

Missionary arrives in Macau with partial movement points and spreads religion.

Gift City to Hatty.

I will try to use the Spies with full Stationary Bonus on the more expensive Techs and the Spies without full bonus on other Techs (Mathematics and Monarchy)
:ninja:Tech Priority and EPs (least or most) to use :ninja:
  1. Code of Laws – least EPs
  2. Philosophy – least EPs
  3. Mathematics – most EPs
  4. Monarchy – most EPs
  5. Construction – least Eps
  6. Theology – least Eps
  7. Calendar – least Eps
  8. Aesthetics – least Eps
  9. Literature – least EPs

Switch builds as noted above and finish Chops.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Save Here ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Warrior 1 remains active on GH For 1 E of Yak ruins.
Axe 3 remains active on Fur

Turn 98, 425 BC
 
To the Diplo Policy, I'd add something like:
Stop Trading with another AI? No


Jersey Joe said:
Galley 7 (by Lyons) unloads 2 Chariots 1 SE PH (Gems?)
Yes, please.


Jersey Joe said:
Galley ? (4 S of Lyons stays in place)
For your info: Galley 6


Jersey Joe said:
Promotions:
Here would be my suggestions:
Chariot 8 takes Combat III or Shock
Spoiler :
I don't see Formation really being of use in any of our fights--mounted Units don't get defensive bonuses when we attack them, so they are the least of our worries when trying to capture Cities, and we don't need another Medic yet, since our Units will consolidate and travel as a stack with both a Medic I and a Woodsman III healer; Shock would be the only alternative that I think would be worth considering--your choice between Combat III and Shock

Axeman 6 takes Woodsman I
HA 7 taking Shock sounds good to me


Jersey Joe said:
Galley 4 sails 1SW into Hamburg, Zhuge boards Galley 4
Galley 4 sails 1 NE, Zhuge transfers to Galley 5
We don't need to be that tricky since Zhuge can move out to sea to 1 NE of Hamburg all on his own, thanks to him having gone into his quarters on the Galley at London one turn earlier than the Missionary existed.


Jersey Joe said:
I will try to use the Spies with full Stationary Bonus on the more expensive Techs and the Spies without full bonus on other Techs (Mathematics and Monarchy)
If the last 2 Spies have a 50% Bonus and a lower-than-50% Bonus, I'd suggest saving the 50% Bonus Spy for last, as the last Spy will get higher odds of success, so we might as well get the best discount with the Spy that has the greatest chance of success.

Of course, if the second-last tech to steal is Theology, then it's up to you, as Theology at a 40% Bonus would be relatively expensive, so it might still be worth it to try the 50% Spy first, as then we'd save some EPs if we stole it and if we failed, it wouldn't matter that the last tech cost a bit more since we wouldn't have stolen two more techs.

Here's some useful info to note from the T91 saved game:
Spy with a 30% Stationary Bonus (try on Mathematics, as it is the cheapest tech to steal): 009
Spies with a 40% Stationary Bonus: 008, 010
That situation may leave James Bond as the last Spy and thus the Spy with the most chance of success. ;)


Jersey Joe said:
4. Monarchy – most EPs
5. Construction – least Eps
Let's swap the order of these two, to put Construction at a higher priority.


Jersey Joe said:
Warrior 1 remains active on GH For 1 E of Yak ruins.
I'd suggest him moving to the right side of the Ruins (1 W of the GH Deer For). He'd have to move to that square on T97, so based on the fact that you said he remains active, I am assuming that you're thinking of the left side, where he isn't needed for spawn-busting thanks to Argent's Culture-busting.


Jersey Joe said:
Turn 97, 450 BC
Paris
build: switch to Settler
I'd suggest a build item where we can grow (probably the Chariot), as we'll earn 1 Happy citizen thanks to the turn of Anarchy using up the last turn of the Whipping Unhappiness; there's a chance that we could have +1 Happiness by the time that Paris is at Size 6, so grow first and then put Hammers into the Settler.


Jersey Joe said:
London
build: Library (2-pop whip T98)
1-pop-whipping will be better because we need to turn 2 citizens into Scientists the turn after the Library has been completed and we can't regrow 1 extra citizen faster than we can get the Library down to a 1-pop-whipping action, due to London only having 1 Food Resource and the Library already having more than 30 Hammers in it--I think that once London hits Size 4, it will only take us 2 more turns to get the Hammers required to 1-pop-whip the Library.


Jersey Joe said:
York
build: Axeman
Works: Fish
We should still be at Size 2, so we should be working the Fish + Stone.



On T96:
At 1 SE of Ex-Yakutsk, Axe 6 Loads from Galley 1 to Galley 3
Galley 3 (with Axe 6 aboard) sails 2 E to 2 N of St. Pete's
Axe 5 moves 1 SW onto Galley 3 at 2 N of St. Pete's

HA 5 (1 SW of Vlad) moves 1 S and Skips its turn
Chariot 1 (1 SW of Vlad) moves 1 S and Skips its turn

HA 4 (in Vlad) moves to the G at 1 NE + 1 N of St. Pete's (moves 1 SE TunH For > 1 SW G > 1 W G)
Axe 4 (in Vlad) Skips its turn
Chariot 5 (in Vlad) moves to the G at 1 NE + 1 N of St. Pete's
Chariot 6 (in Vlad) moves to the G at 1 NE + 1 N of St. Pete's
Chariot 7 (in Vlad) moves to the G at 1 NE + 1 N of St. Pete's

Galley 1 (should now be empty at 1 SE of Ex-Yakutsk) sails 1 SW to join Galley 5 at 2 S of Ex-Yakutsk
Galley 5 Skips its turn at 2 S of Ex-Yakutsk

Put a sign on the map where Warrior 1 is to indicate that a City will go there

Warrior 1 moves 1 E GH Ruins

Galley 2 (in Orleans) can move 1 NW to 1 NW of Orleans and Skip its turn
Spoiler :
we might as well stay here in case we later want to transfer troops from the mainland to help with the capture of Nottingham


On T97:

After performing tech-stealing, to see if we can get Construction

These Units at 1 NE + 1 N of St. Pete's (1 SW + 1 S of Vlad) move into St. Pete's:
HA 4
HA 5
Chariot 1
Chariot 5
Chariot 6
Chariot 7


Galley 3 (with Axe 5 and Axe 6 aboard at 2 SW of Vlad) moves 2 S into St. Pete's
Axe 5 Unloads from Galley 3 into St. Pete's
Spoiler :
Otherwise, the Axemen won't defend from attackers, and we should put the mounted Units that won't get XP from the Great General onto Galley 3

Axe 6 Promotes to Woodsman I
Axe 6 Unloads from Galley 3 into St. Pete's

These two Units will not get XP from the Great General:
HA 4 (inside of St. Pete's) Loads onto Galley 3
Chariot 1 (inside of St Pete's) Loads onto Galley 3
Spoiler :
In this way, the Units are all hiding inside of St. Pete's and aren't standing outside of Stalin's Cultural Borders and Chariot 1 will be providing healing to our 2 Axemen this turn. Next turn, Galley 3 will temporarily sail 1 NW out of the City while we distribute the XP before our mounted Units aboard Galley 3 return to St Pete's.


HA 11 (in Cologne) waits for Construction to be stolen, then moves onto Galley 4 at 1 NE of Hamburg

If we failed to steal Construction, then HA 11 must miss the boat. We cannot afford to wait for him

Zhuge Liang moves 1 NE out of Hamburg onto Galley 4 at 1 NE of Hamburg

Galley 4 (with Zhuge and possibly HA 11 aboard) sails 2 NE to 2 S of Ex-Yakutsk to join up with Galley 1 and Galley 5

Zhuge Liang (on Galley 4 at 2 S of Ex-Yakutsk) Loads onto Galley 5

HA 11, if he came with Zhuge Liang, Loads onto Galley 5

If HA 11 did not come, do not Load another Unit to join Zhuge Liang

HA 8 (on the GH For at 1 SW of Ex-Yakutsk) moves 1 SE onto Galley 1

HA 10 (on the GH For at 1 SW of Ex-Yakutsk) moves 1 SE onto Galley 1

Galley 1 (with HA 8 and HA 10 abord) sails 2 E to 1 NW of St. Pete's

Galley 5 (with Zhuge and possibly HA 11 aboard) sails 2 E to 1 NW of St. Pete's

Chariot 8 on the GH For at 1 SW of Ex-Yakutsk Promotes to Combat III (or Shock, your choice)

Chariot 8 moves 1 SE onto Galley 4

HA 7 (at Ex-Yakutsk) Promotes to Shock and Skips his turn to heal

Warrior 1 (at Ex-Yakutsk) moves 1 E GH For (1 W of the GH Deer For and 1 SW + 1 S of the TunH Iron For)


These Unit logistics, as mentioned in the edited text in 2 messages above, will mean being able to distribute our Great General's XP on T98 inside of St. Pete's.


Best of luck to you! :goodjob: But, don't sweat it if our Spies aren't very successful. Even Bond has his bad days. :scan:



Also, I'd suggest that we ask Mehmed to attack Rostov every turn.


I'd suggest waiting until T97 to ask Frederick to attack Athens, to give him a turn to Pillage another Mine while our Chariots get into position.
 
write-up

The 73% chance of successfully stealing a tech must be wrong.

T96, 475BC (continued)
Trade Darius Alphabet for Monotheism + 10 gold.
Ivory Coast is Founded in South Africa and starts to build a Workboat.

We adopt Christianity as our State religion.

Between Turns: Frederick's men stay on theMine. It does not look like they pillaged.

T97, 450 BC
Stalin will sign Peace treaty.
Hatty will Trade Monarchy, but she wants most of our Gold (435)

Religion spreads to Macau. The card players talk about moving the card game to a new location.
Our Horse Archer kills a Russian Scout. near Athens.

Out Horse Archer and 4 Chariots can attack Athens next Turn.

Hattie accepts our Gift of Macau. She still wants 435 Gold for Monarchy.
We have a better idea :mischief:
The costs are as follows:
Code of Laws 93 EP
Philosophy 233 EP by 003
Mathematics 100 EP by 009
Construction 93 EP
Monarchy 100 EP
Theology 163 EP? by 005 wasn't sure of the EP cost but it is close.
Calendar 93 EP
A Spy is Caught by Hatty's husband, the spy claims he was only trying to steal Aesthetics :lol:
Aesthetics 100 EP

Looks like we will not have to train many new spies.

We switch our study to Civil Service.

Worker #8 (captured when we took Vlad) put 1 turn into a Road where he is Standing.

I Looks like Macau controls Paris' Wheat

Madam Curie is in Moscow.

Could Zhuge be attached to our soon to be Woodsman III and give him Morale for +1 Movemeny?

I need to look at the proposed use of Zhuge.

What about sending 2 spies to Portugal to try and steal Metal Casting?

The Logs:
Session Turn Log from 475 BC to 450 BC:
Spoiler :
Turn 96, 475 BC: Paris has grown to size 5.
Turn 96, 475 BC: Paris has become unhappy.
Turn 96, 475 BC: Paris can hurry Chariot for 1&#8692; with 16&#8484; overflow and +1&#8676; for 61 turns.
Turn 96, 475 BC: Orleans has grown to size 3.
Turn 96, 475 BC: Orleans can hurry Chariot for 1&#8692; with 30&#8484; overflow, 2&#8500; added to the treasury, and +1&#8676; for 52 turns.
Turn 96, 475 BC: Lyons has grown to size 3.
Turn 96, 475 BC: Lyons can hurry Chariot for 1&#8692; with 18&#8484; overflow and +1&#8676; for 51 turns.
Turn 96, 475 BC: London will become healthy on the next turn.
Turn 96, 475 BC: Hamburg has grown to size 2.
Turn 96, 475 BC: Hamburg can hurry Axeman for 1&#8692; with 9&#8484; overflow and +1&#8676; for 26 turns.
Turn 96, 475 BC: Cologne has grown to size 2.
Turn 96, 475 BC: Cologne can hurry Chariot for 1&#8692; with 17&#8484; overflow and +1&#8676; for 17 turns.
Turn 96, 475 BC: Ruby Bay can hurry Granary for 1&#8692; with 4&#8484; overflow and +1&#8676; for 10 turns.
Turn 96, 475 BC: Hatshepsut has 50 gold available for trade.
Turn 96, 475 BC: Stalin is willing to negotiate.
Turn 96, 475 BC: Alexander is willing to negotiate.
Turn 96, 475 BC: Darius I will trade Monotheism
Turn 96, 475 BC: Hatshepsut will trade Monotheism
Turn 96, 475 BC: Will Sign Peace Treaty: Alexander, Stalin
Turn 96, 475 BC: Napoleon REAL's Chariot 12 (Cologne) (4.00) vs Stalin's Archer (6.75)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Combat Odds: 2.4%
Turn 96, 475 BC: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 96, 475 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 96, 475 BC: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 96, 475 BC: (Hills Defense: +25%)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Napoleon REAL's Chariot 12 (Cologne) is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Napoleon REAL's Chariot 12 (Cologne) is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Napoleon REAL's Chariot 12 (Cologne) is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Napoleon REAL's Chariot 12 (Cologne) is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Stalin's Archer has defeated Napoleon REAL's Chariot 12 (Cologne)!
Turn 96, 475 BC: Your Chariot 12 (Cologne) has died trying to attack a Archer!
Turn 96, 475 BC: Napoleon REAL's Chariot 3 (Paris) (4.40) vs Stalin's Archer (6.75)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Combat Odds: 6.8%
Turn 96, 475 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 96, 475 BC: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 96, 475 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 96, 475 BC: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 96, 475 BC: (Hills Defense: +25%)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Napoleon REAL's Chariot 3 (Paris) is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Napoleon REAL's Chariot 3 (Paris) is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Stalin's Archer is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Napoleon REAL's Chariot 3 (Paris) is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Napoleon REAL's Chariot 3 (Paris) is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Stalin's Archer is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Napoleon REAL's Chariot 3 (Paris) is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Stalin's Archer has defeated Napoleon REAL's Chariot 3 (Paris)!
Turn 96, 475 BC: Your Chariot 3 (Paris) has died trying to attack a Archer!
Turn 96, 475 BC: Napoleon REAL's Horse Archer 8 (Orleans) (6.00) vs Stalin's Archer (6.75)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Combat Odds: 30.8%
Turn 96, 475 BC: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 96, 475 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 96, 475 BC: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 96, 475 BC: (Hills Defense: +25%)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Napoleon REAL's Horse Archer 8 (Orleans) is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Napoleon REAL's Horse Archer 8 (Orleans) is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Napoleon REAL's Horse Archer 8 (Orleans) is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Stalin's Archer is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Stalin's Archer is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Napoleon REAL's Horse Archer 8 (Orleans) is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Stalin's Archer is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Stalin's Archer is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Your Horse Archer 8 (Orleans) has withdrawn from combat with a Archer!
Turn 96, 475 BC: Napoleon REAL's Horse Archer 10 (Hamburg) (6.00) vs Stalin's Archer (6.00)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Combat Odds: 50.0%
Turn 96, 475 BC: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 96, 475 BC: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 96, 475 BC: (Hills Defense: +25%)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Stalin's Archer is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Napoleon REAL's Horse Archer 10 (Hamburg) is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Stalin's Archer is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Napoleon REAL's Horse Archer 10 (Hamburg) is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Napoleon REAL's Horse Archer 10 (Hamburg) is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Napoleon REAL's Horse Archer 10 (Hamburg) is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Your Horse Archer 10 (Hamburg) has withdrawn from combat with a Archer!
Turn 96, 475 BC: Napoleon REAL's Chariot 8 (Paris) (4.80) vs Stalin's Archer (4.59)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Combat Odds: 59.6%
Turn 96, 475 BC: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 96, 475 BC: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 96, 475 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 96, 475 BC: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 96, 475 BC: (Hills Defense: +25%)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Napoleon REAL's Chariot 8 (Paris) is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Stalin's Archer is hit for 18 (50/100HP)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Stalin's Archer is hit for 18 (32/100HP)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Stalin's Archer is hit for 18 (14/100HP)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Stalin's Archer is hit for 18 (0/100HP)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Napoleon REAL's Chariot 8 (Paris) has defeated Stalin's Archer!
Turn 96, 475 BC: Your Chariot 8 (Paris) has destroyed a Archer!
Turn 96, 475 BC: Napoleon REAL's Chariot 2 (Orleans) (4.40) vs Stalin's Archer (3.60)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Combat Odds: 68.1%
Turn 96, 475 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 96, 475 BC: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 96, 475 BC: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 96, 475 BC: (Hills Defense: +25%)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Napoleon REAL's Chariot 2 (Orleans) is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Napoleon REAL's Chariot 2 (Orleans) is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Napoleon REAL's Chariot 2 (Orleans) is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Napoleon REAL's Chariot 2 (Orleans) is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Napoleon REAL's Chariot 2 (Orleans) is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Stalin's Archer has defeated Napoleon REAL's Chariot 2 (Orleans)!
Turn 96, 475 BC: Your Chariot 2 (Orleans) has died trying to attack a Archer!
Turn 96, 475 BC: Napoleon REAL's Axeman 6 (Hamburg) (5.00) vs Stalin's Archer (4.50)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Combat Odds: 63.0%
Turn 96, 475 BC: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 96, 475 BC: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 96, 475 BC: (Hills Defense: +25%)
Turn 96, 475 BC: (Amphibious Attack: +50%)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Napoleon REAL's Axeman 6 (Hamburg) is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Napoleon REAL's Axeman 6 (Hamburg) is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Stalin's Archer is hit for 18 (42/100HP)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Stalin's Archer is hit for 18 (24/100HP)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Stalin's Archer is hit for 18 (6/100HP)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Stalin's Archer is hit for 18 (0/100HP)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Napoleon REAL's Axeman 6 (Hamburg) has defeated Stalin's Archer!
Turn 96, 475 BC: Your Axeman 6 (Hamburg) has destroyed a Archer!
Turn 96, 475 BC: Napoleon REAL's Horse Archer 7 (Orleans) (6.00) vs Stalin's Archer (2.31)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Combat Odds: 99.8%
Turn 96, 475 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 96, 475 BC: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 96, 475 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 96, 475 BC: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 96, 475 BC: (Hills Defense: +25%)
Turn 96, 475 BC: (Amphibious Attack: +50%)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Stalin's Archer is hit for 21 (7/100HP)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Stalin's Archer is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 96, 475 BC: Napoleon REAL's Horse Archer 7 (Orleans) has defeated Stalin's Archer!
Turn 96, 475 BC: Your Horse Archer 7 (Orleans) has destroyed a Archer!
Turn 96, 475 BC: You have captured Yakutsk!!!
Turn 96, 475 BC: You have destroyed the city of Yakutsk!!!
Turn 96, 475 BC: Stalin refuses to talk.
Turn 96, 475 BC: London will become healthy on the next turn.
Turn 96, 475 BC: Hatshepsut has 50 gold available for trade.
Turn 96, 475 BC: Stalin refuses to talk.
Turn 96, 475 BC: You are the worst enemy of Kublai Khan, Stalin, Alexander.
Turn 96, 475 BC: Darius I is the worst enemy of Mehmed II, Saladin.
Turn 96, 475 BC: Mehmed II is the worst enemy of Darius I.
Turn 96, 475 BC: Hatshepsut is the worst enemy of Joao II.
Turn 96, 475 BC: Stalin is the worst enemy of Hatshepsut.
Turn 96, 475 BC: Alexander is the worst enemy of Frederick.
Turn 96, 475 BC: Darius I will trade Monotheism
Turn 96, 475 BC: Hatshepsut will trade Monotheism
Turn 96, 475 BC: Will Sign Open Borders: Darius I, Joao II
Turn 96, 475 BC: Will Sign Peace Treaty: Alexander
Turn 96, 475 BC: You have discovered Monotheism!
Turn 96, 475 BC: Ivory Coast has been founded.
Turn 96, 475 BC: The revolution has begun!!!
Turn 96, 475 BC: Napoleon REAL converts to Christianity!
Turn 96, 475 BC: The anarchy is over! Your government is re-established.
Turn 96, 475 BC: Duke Ellington (Great Artist) has been born in a far away land!

Turn 97, 450 BC: Paris has become happy.
Turn 97, 450 BC: London has become healthy.
Turn 97, 450 BC: Stalin has 50 gold available for trade.
Turn 97, 450 BC: Stalin is willing to negotiate.
Turn 97, 450 BC: Hatshepsut will trade Monarchy
Turn 97, 450 BC: Will Sign Peace Treaty: Stalin
Turn 97, 450 BC: Christianity has spread in Macau.
Turn 97, 450 BC: Napoleon REAL's Horse Archer 9 (Paris) (6.60) vs Stalin's Scout (1.10)
Turn 97, 450 BC: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 97, 450 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 97, 450 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 97, 450 BC: Stalin's Scout is hit for 42 (58/100HP)
Turn 97, 450 BC: Stalin's Scout is hit for 42 (16/100HP)
Turn 97, 450 BC: Napoleon REAL's Horse Archer 9 (Paris) is hit for 9 (91/100HP)
Turn 97, 450 BC: Stalin's Scout is hit for 42 (0/100HP)
Turn 97, 450 BC: Napoleon REAL's Horse Archer 9 (Paris) has defeated Stalin's Scout!
Turn 97, 450 BC: Your Horse Archer 9 (Paris) has destroyed a Scout!
Turn 97, 450 BC: You have discovered Code of Laws!
Turn 97, 450 BC: Espionage Mission undertaken successfully!
Turn 97, 450 BC: Upon completing the mission the Spy 2 (XO Cognac) has returned safely to Paris.
Turn 97, 450 BC: You have discovered Philosophy!
Turn 97, 450 BC: Espionage Mission undertaken successfully!
Turn 97, 450 BC: Upon completing the mission the Spy 003 has returned safely to Paris.
Turn 97, 450 BC: You have discovered Mathematics!
Turn 97, 450 BC: Espionage Mission undertaken successfully!
Turn 97, 450 BC: Upon completing the mission the Spy 009 has returned safely to Paris.
Turn 97, 450 BC: You have discovered Construction!
Turn 97, 450 BC: Espionage Mission undertaken successfully!
Turn 97, 450 BC: Upon completing the mission the Spy 4 (Orleans) has returned safely to Paris.
Turn 97, 450 BC: Stalin has 50 gold available for trade.
Turn 97, 450 BC: You are the worst enemy of Kublai Khan, Stalin, Alexander.
Turn 97, 450 BC: Darius I is the worst enemy of Mehmed II, Saladin.
Turn 97, 450 BC: Mehmed II is the worst enemy of Darius I.
Turn 97, 450 BC: Hatshepsut is the worst enemy of Joao II.
Turn 97, 450 BC: Stalin is the worst enemy of Hatshepsut.
Turn 97, 450 BC: Alexander is the worst enemy of Frederick.
Turn 97, 450 BC: Hatshepsut will trade Monarchy
Turn 97, 450 BC: Will Sign Open Borders: Darius I, Joao II
Turn 97, 450 BC: Will Sign Peace Treaty: Alexander, Stalin
Turn 97, 450 BC: You have discovered Monarchy!
Turn 97, 450 BC: Espionage Mission undertaken successfully!
Turn 97, 450 BC: Upon completing the mission the Spy 8 (Orleans) has returned safely to Paris.
Turn 97, 450 BC: You have discovered Theology!
Turn 97, 450 BC: Espionage Mission undertaken successfully!
Turn 97, 450 BC: Upon completing the mission the Spy 005 has returned safely to Paris.
Turn 97, 450 BC: You have discovered Calendar!
Turn 97, 450 BC: Espionage Mission undertaken successfully!
Turn 97, 450 BC: Upon completing the mission the Spy 6 (Paris) has returned safely to Paris.
Turn 97, 450 BC: A French Spy 7 (XO Cognac) has been stumbled upon while operating near the Egyptian city of Macau!
Turn 97, 450 BC: You have discovered Aesthetics!
Turn 97, 450 BC: Espionage Mission undertaken successfully!
Turn 97, 450 BC: Upon completing the mission the Spy 10 (XO Cognac) has returned safely to Paris.
Turn 97, 450 BC: Clearing a Forest has created 30 &#8484; for Argent.
Turn 97, 450 BC: Clearing a Forest has created 30 &#8484; for Argent.
Turn 97, 450 BC: Clearing a Forest has created 30 &#8484; for Ruby Bay.
Turn 97, 450 BC: Clearing a Forest has created 30 &#8484; for Ruby Bay.
Turn 97, 450 BC: Stalin has 50 gold available for trade.
Turn 97, 450 BC: You are the worst enemy of Kublai Khan, Stalin, Alexander.
Turn 97, 450 BC: Darius I is the worst enemy of Mehmed II, Saladin.
Turn 97, 450 BC: Mehmed II is the worst enemy of Darius I.
Turn 97, 450 BC: Hatshepsut is the worst enemy of Joao II.
Turn 97, 450 BC: Stalin is the worst enemy of Hatshepsut.
Turn 97, 450 BC: Alexander is the worst enemy of Frederick.
Turn 97, 450 BC: Will Sign Open Borders: Darius I, Joao II
Turn 97, 450 BC: Will Sign Peace Treaty: Alexander, Stalin

AutoLog:
Spoiler :
Turn 96/500 (475 BC) [11-Aug-2016 04:37:06]
Tech traded to Darius I (Persia): Alphabet
Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Monotheism
Rheims founded
Ivory Coast begins: Work Boat (8 turns)
100% Research: 0 per turn
0% Espionage: 0 per turn
0% Gold: 5 per turn, 475 in the bank

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
State Religion Change: Napoleon REAL (France) from 'no State Religion' to 'Christianity'
Attitude Change: Darius I (Persia) towards Frederick (Germany), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Darius I (Persia) towards Churchill (England), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Darius I (Persia) towards Saladin (Arabia), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Saladin (Arabia) towards Napoleon REAL (France), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Alexander (Greece) towards Napoleon REAL (France), from 'Furious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Alexander (Greece) towards Darius I (Persia), from 'Annoyed' to 'Furious'

Turn 97/500 (450 BC) [11-Aug-2016 05:06:27]
Lyons begins: Galley (10 turns)
Christianity has spread: Macau
While attacking, Horse Archer 9 (Paris) decimates Russian Scout (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Greek territory near Athens, Horse Archer 9 (Paris) (5.46/6) defeats Russian Scout (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
Horse Archer 7 (Orleans) promoted: Shock
Axeman 6 (Hamburg) promoted: Woodsman I
Chariot 8 (Paris) promoted: Combat III
Christianity has been removed: Macau
Macau lost
Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Code of Laws
Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Philosophy
Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Mathematics
Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Construction

Turn 97/500 (450 BC) [11-Aug-2016 06:03:28]
Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Monarchy
Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Theology
Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Calendar
Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Aesthetics
Ruby Bay begins: Aqueduct (34 turns)

Turn 97/500 (450 BC) [11-Aug-2016 06:51:06]
Research begun: Civil Service (7 Turns)


The Save.
 
Nice work! I'll have to look at the saved game later and will just comment on the write-up for now.


The 73% chance of successfully stealing a tech must be wrong.
Maybe your research about people's code diving was correct and there is therefore a bug in the interface?

Maybe there is a bug in the interface but instead of being a fixed percentage, the percentage gets influenced by a relative ratio, based on the fact that we spent quite a lot of our Commerce on EPs? Either way, it seems that your lucky streak is in full effect! :cool:


Between Turns: Frederick's men stay on theMine. It does not look like they pillaged.
Oh, no! They are likely too scared of the top defender to attack and must be "choking" Alex (Alex is probably happily going about his business without feeling the effects). Maybe we should Pillage the GH Mine ourselves, to see if they will move. Actually, it sounds like we've moved our Horse Archer already, and if the plan is to possibly attack next turn, it won't make sense to Pillage with a Chariot.


Hatty will Trade Monarchy, but she wants most of our Gold (435)
It seems that you managed to get it much cheaper! :lol:


A Spy is Caught by Hatty's husband, the spy claims he was only trying to steal Aesthetics :lol:
"Sorry, Sir, I'm just the contractor; I wanted to figure out how to make your place look even better."


Worker #8 (captured when we took Vlad) put 1 turn into a Road where he is Standing.
Sounds good. I'm not sure what his best use will be afterward, but maybe we will send him by boat to help with Chopping at Hamburg + Cologne to get our Granaries Chopped there.

Even 1 Chop plus a 1-pop-whipping action per City will go a long way and is much more efficient approach than 2-pop-whipping a Granary.


Madam Curie is in Moscow.
She seems to be touring the entire Russian country. Maybe she's filming a documentary about the demise of their empire? Let's hope that she doesn't get settled somewhere silly; I've seen AIs build Academies in Cities with 0 Culture in places that made no sense in terms of Commerce, probably just to expand the Cultural Borders. :crazyeye: Ideally, she'll stop her tour in Moscow...


Could Zhuge be attached to our soon to be Woodsman III and give him Morale for +1 Movement?
We tried that tactic 2 SGOTMs ago and it turns out that a Woodman II Promotion will simply use up half of the Unit's movement. So, instead of using 0.5 movement to move into a Forest, 1.0 movement will be used to move into a Forest. So, it's a no-go operation, i.e. it's a waste of a Promotion to combine Morale plus Woodsman II.

If we were going to give a Unit two movement points, it would be a non-Woodsman II Axeman, or better, a War Elephant (what's better than Amphibious War Elephants? Speedy War Elephants! Haha). For now, I think that we'll just take Tactics on one of our Horse Archers.

Woodsman III is actually a really good Promotion, so our Axeman won't be hurting by taking that Promotion, and I'm 99% certain that it doesn't require a Great General being attached to assign that Promotion. It gives First Strikes on Units that don't normally get First Strikes (think of how Samurai with their free First Strikes cut through Archers like cutting through butter) and it gives better healing than Medic I (15% for Woody III and 10% for Medic I).


I Looks like Macau controls Paris' Wheat
Our Cultural influence should give it back to us next turn. If growth will be delayed, we could build a Settler this turn, but if growth won't be delayed (counting getting the Wheat back next turn), I'd just stick with building the Chariot, especially it seems that we will get our +1 Happiness soon from having stolen Monarchy.


What about sending 2 spies to Portugal to try and steal Metal Casting?
Try it out in a test game by World-Building a Spy into Lisbon and waiting 5 turns, but you'll find that distance costs increase, we don't get the 50% Culture discount, and our Spy will have about 9 turns where he can automatically die every turn.

So, even if our Spy doesn't die along the way and our Mission is successful, it takes more time to get our Spy into position and the cost goes up. It will probably be cheaper/easier to wait for Churchill to research Metal Casting and then maybe get Joao and Churchill to meet each other so that we can trade for it.

But, I don't see a problem with gifting a north-west-of-Paris City to Joao and Opening Borders with Joao, as then he'll be likely to send out 2 City Defenders away from his core Cities to guard his new City.

That said, it might be wise to plan to send 1 Spy to Berlin and another Spy to a Russian City--although, for a Berlin Spy to work, we'd need to put some EPs on Frederick for a turn at some point after learning Civil Service.

Even if we don't perform the Support City Revolt Mission, there's also a Steal Treasury Mission, but it works best on an AI who only has 1 City, since then you'll steal 100% of their Gold reserves (the Gold that an AI won't even show to you in the trading window).


Turn 96, 475 BC: You are the worst enemy of Kublai Khan
I hope that he doesn't declare war on us in the future. We'll have to be careful about refusing him again.

On that note, are there any techs that we don't want to give away that we should add to the list besides Horseback Riding?

Construction (Cats and War Elephants) and Hereditary Rule (leads to Feudalism and is easily traded around amongst the AIs) come to mind. Anything else?

As for Calendar, even if an AI were to build MoM, the Wonder will work just as well if it gets captured as if we were to slow-build it (actually, it will be better, as we won't have to invest Hammers or Forests into building it), but it would be better for us to choose which AI were to build it. I can't currently think of any AI that we'd want to build it, except for Mehmed, since we'll need to capture Istanbul eventually, so maybe he'll be a good AI to whom to trade Calendar.


Turn 96, 475 BC: Duke Ellington (Great Artist) has been born in a far away land!
Hatty learned Music.


Turn 97, 450 BC: Napoleon REAL's Horse Archer 9 (Paris) is hit for 9 (91/100HP)
We made this attack because we will get another Promotion, right?


Macau lost
Tech acquired
That part of the log is pretty funny.


I guess that we'll need to examine what our Cities are going to be building and we'll need to figure out if we are we going to slip into Anarchy on T97 or if will we benefit from delaying Anarchy for a little bit.
 
Good show, Jersey Joe. Do you want to tie up loose ends or pass it on?

Folket (or anyone else), do you want to play next?
CP, How about I play I play this next set (T97 another revolt to get Pacifistic and Hereditary rule, T98 mostly building and troops healing, T99 city building and worker movement) then you pick it up for the rest of T99 in time for you to Capture Moscow?
 
Caution: The real game is not paused.

Things are looking really great!

Folket (or anyone else), do you want to play next?
I'm okay with waiting until a future turnset to play, when we have less real-life time remaining for planning out each turn. Hopefully, by the time that that part of the game comes along, we'll have dominated the AIs sufficiently that every turn won't require such careful planning.


Ivory Coast
Spoiler :
Scenario A] Work the Ivory
8 turns to build a Work Boat and net a Fish gives us 8 Food
22 F - 8 F = 14 F
14 F / 5 F per turn = 3 turns to grow to Size 2

At Size 2, for comparison's sake, let's say that we will work the netted Fish and the unnetted Fish just to compare the two scenarios, but we'd actually probably work the netted Fish and the Ivory. Let's say that we do so for 5 turns.

Ignoring the City Centre (which makes us think oddly about how Food is earned, but it's a good relative comparison method) and Trade Routes, that gives us:
8 turns of 1 F + 2 H
3 turns of 5 F + 2 C
5 turns of 5 F + 4 C
8 * 1 F + 3 * 5 F + 5 * 5 F = 8 + 15 + 25 = 48 F
8 * 2 H = 16 H
3 * 2 C + 5 * 4 C = 6 + 20 = 26 C

Scenario B] Work the Unnetted Fish
22 F / 2 F per turn = 11 turns to grow to Size 2
We will have 22 H in a Work Boat
Let's play it forward by working the unnetted Fish + Ivory for 2 more turns to get our Work Boat, then finish of the last 3 turns by working the netted Fish and an unnetted Fish, which gives us:
11 turns of 2 F + 2 C
2 turns of 4 F + 2 H + 2 C
3 turns of 5 F + 4 C
11 * 2 F + 2 * 4 F + 3 * 5 F = 22 + 8 + 15 = 45 F
2 * 2 H = 4 H
11 * 2 + 2 * 2 + 3 * 4 = 22 + 4 + 12 = 38 C

Scenario A] gives us an additional 3 F and 12 H but misses out on 12 C.


I think that working the Ivory (as we have chosen to do) is the better choice.


Gold City
It looks as though we haven't revealed any Food to go with the Gold Resources, so we can aim to settle on the western Gold (the PH Riv Gold) so that we have coastal access. We'll get a 2-Hammer and 2-Commerce City Centre square this way and can stagnate at Size 1 while working the second Gold Resource.

We can also plan to improve the Incense and simply keep the City, getting ourselves +2 Happiness.

Fog-gazing says that the square at 1 SW of Lisbon's Fish is water and the square 3 S of Lisbon's Fish is water. Our Chariot 9 can first look to see where Hatty's Settler Party moved and then can head 2 NW to the PH to reveal the squares in the area to see if there is a water path (to give us Trade Routes) or if the land blocks off the water at the edge of the map.

Galley 6 can unload our Worker and Settler on the P square that is 1 E of the "Real Game" sign, at 1 NE and 1 NW of the two Incense squares, so that our Galley can head back sooner. We'll want to get our troops from Athens to either go for Joao or Hatty.


Hatty
Unfortunately, we can no longer see into Hatty's Cities. We also don't know what she is going to tech next, but we still have enough EPs saved up on her to find out when she picks her tech in between turns.

If her next tech is not Feudalism, we'll need to decide between the original plan of attacking her to recapture the two gift Cities versus planning to take The Apostolic Palace from her very soon and possibly skipping the second gift City in the short term.

If she picks Feudalism, it will make for really tight timing to go for her core Cities.

One thing is for certain is that by owning far-away Cities, her tech rate will suffer, so we probably don't want her to own far-away Cities for too long, but she might also send some City Defenders toward us and build a Road toward us, so it's not necessarily a bad thing for her to keep the first gift City for the short term.


Alex
Last turn, Alex had 17 Hammers in a build item.

Alex just finished a build item.

Looking at his City, he has a Monument and a Barracks, but he had those build items last turn. He has the same Archer and the same 2 Combat I Warriors, but he has a new Work Boat, so that's what he built.

That fact means that he could cold-whip an Archer this turn, which would mean that we wouldn't be able to attack and win with our current forces.

If that were to happen, I'd suggest Pillaging the GH Mine and then gathering our forces on the PH Riv Road Mine at 1 NW + 1 W of Athens, where our Horse Archer and two Chariots are currently located, so that they'll be in position to attack Athens if reinforcements come or so that they'll be in position to board Galleys and go elsewhere.

However, if Alex doesn't create a second Archer, we could promote our Horse Archer to Combat II and see how well it does against his Archer; if we get pretty good odds with Chariot 13, we should be able to capture Athens. If the Archer hardly takes a scratch from our Horse Archer, then we'll probably have to call off the attack and either wait for backup or wait for Frederick to make his move.

Note that we'd need to manually move 1 SE P Riv Cottage to ensure that three of our Units would not have to attack across of a River, by attacking from 1 W of Athens with three of our Units, leaving the two Chariots on the GH Mine for the last attacks, since they would get the penalty of crossing a River when attacking from 1 N of there at 1 NW of Athens.


Civics, City Builds, The Hanging Gardens, and Spies
It's all a bit inter-related.

For example, if we earn too many Chops while in Anarchy, we won't be able to 1-pop-whip our Aqueduct in Ruby Bay.

If we switch Civics on T97, we won't be able to put Hammers into build items on T97, which could either help or hinder, depending upon what we want to do with our Hammers.

I don't think that we'll need to build Spies in XO Cognac and Orleans, but if we wanted, both Cities could complete a Chariot on T97 if we wait to switch Civics, although I think that XO Cognac might be better off dumping Hammers + Food into a Settler for a turn to be able to 2-pop-whip a Settler there.

Two Chariots (one from Orleans and one already in Paris) could be useful at either Athens or Notthingham.

Also, it's not totally clear as to when we should make Catapults versus Courthouses, and there's also a chance that we'd soon be able to make War Elephants.

In re-reading what Jersey Joe wrote, I am now thinking that he meant to send 1 Spy to each of Joao's Cities to potentially perform a Support City Revolt Mission in either City, not for stealing Metal Casting, as I originally misunderstood. I think that it's a good idea of his.

Similar Spies might also be useful in Hatty's Cities, in Berlin, and possibly even in Russian Cities.

But, if we want to steal Metal Casting, we'll still want, say, 2 Spies to go to the north-west (yet-to-be-settled) gift City. If we want to then also try to steal Literature and Music, we'd want to send more than 2 Spies.

The timing of which Worker Chops when at Ruby Bay may be affected by a turn of Anarchy either delaying Cultural Border expansion over top of the SE + E GH Riv For or by not wanting to collect too many Hammers while in Anarchy.

I forget what the plan was, but I think we'll be okay if Worker 4 sticks to the plan of Chopping at 1 SW and 1 N and if Workers 5 and 6 converge on the G Riv For at 1 SE + 1 S of Ruby Bay now, then whichever Worker finishes first moves to 1 S of Ruby Bay, with the last Worker moving to 1 SE + 1 E of Ruby Bay. Maybe that's already the plan; I don't have it in front of me to check.

There are also the consideration that we can't switch Civics twice within the span of 5 turns, and Civil Service will come in 7 turns, assuming that we can keep funding Research with a rate of -88 Gold per Turn.

There is also the consideration that if we want to switch 2 Civics at once (Hereditary Rule and Pacifism), we'll want to do so when we own 12 or less Cities and we currently own 11 Cities, with us possibly capturing Athens next turn.

I'm going to propose that we complete a Chariot in Orleans on T97 and that we switch into Anarchy on T98.

With the above-mentioned Worker moves at Ruby Bay, we should be okay, and we'll have 12 or less Cities when we switch Civics. We'll also leave 6 turns between the time of switching Civics and the time of learning Bureaucracy. We'd then have 2 Chariots (one exists in Paris now) which could either board a Galley for England or board a Galley for Greece.


As for XO Cognac, if we dump 8 F + 33 H into a Settler, it will become a 2-pop-whipping action, getting us a quick Settler for our second gift City.

Paris is better off growing and not whipping any more until after switching into Bureaucracy.

That'll give us 1 turn to get a better idea of what's going on:
i. Will we have a chance to take Athens now or will we need to send more troops there?
ii. Will Hatty have chosen Feudalism?

That info can also help us to decide where to send our Spies. Oporto and Lisbon both have City Walls, for example, so Catapults won't be very effective at Bombarding the City Defences in those Cities, but the Support City Revolt Missions that Jersey Joe hinted at could be helpful.

We could also have Cologne give the Fish back to Orleans and 1-pop-whip its Chariot, to be sent toward Nottingham.

Workers could probably do:
T98
Worker 1 moves to G Riv at 1 SW of Paris and Farms
Worker 2 unloads at 1 NW and 1 NE of the two Incense squares
Worker 3 moves 1 E TunH For (to Chop it into a Lighthouse)
Worker 4 Chops G For at 1 SW of Ruby Bay (1 S of the Fish)
Worker 5 moves 1 S G Riv For (1 N of the Horse)
Worker 6 moves 2 E G Riv For (1 N of the Horse)
Worker 7 moves 1 W GH Deer For (to Camp it)
Worker 8 moves into St. Pete's (to board a Galley)

Worker 8 could feasibly also build a partial Road at 1 NE of St. Pete's and be able to move onto a Galley at 1 NW of St. Pete's on the following turn, but I don't want to risk luring Stalin's Units northward, so let's just move him to safely in St. Pete's.

Paris wouldn't be building a Settler and wouldn't be whipping anything until after Bureaucracy, so we could just continue building the Chariot, then later put a turn of Hammers into a build item, realising that we'd earn 45 Hammers instead of 30 Hammers per whipping action post-Bureaucracy and calculating which build item to start on accordingly.

Hamburg could keep growing as there won't be a boat to pick up its Axeman for a couple of turns.

Our Galley 7 could wait to see what happens at Athens and if we need reinforcements, it could head 2 N toward Lyons. If we are going to capture Athens next turn, it could head due west toward Athens to be able to pick up the surviving troops to send them either toward Joao or Hatty.

Another consideration is that after we complete The Hanging Gardens, it will be easier to whip a build item out of each of our Cities.


Actually, thinking about that some more, Ivory Coast could just whip its Work Boat with the extra population point from The Hanging Gardens. Still, since we'd want a second Work Boat, and we might not be the ones to complete The Hanging Gardens, I think that it will be best to stick with working the Ivory square there.


In terms of the Units at St. Pete's, I can provide logistics for the original proposal. We won't be able to get more than 3 Horse Archers promoting because we need our Axeman 5 to be the 4th Unit listed, in order for us to have 8 Units get Promotions and to get ourselves a Woodsman III Unit to provide a bit more healing before we march and to act as a good top-defender cracker.

T97:
HA 4 Loads onto Galley 3 (we have 0 movement points, so it's the best time to load, so that we'll have our movement points while aboard the Galley on T98)
Chariot 1 Loads onto Galley 3

T98:
Galley 1 sails 1 SE into St. Pete's
HA 8 (inside of St. Pete's to keep all of its movement points so that it can heal this turn) Unloads from Galley 1 directly inside of St. Pete's
HA 10 (inside of St. Pete's) Unloads from Galley 1
Worker 8 moves 1 S G > 1 SW into St. Pete's
Worker 8 Loads into Galley 1
Galley 1 sails 1 NW out of St. Pete's (so that Galley 1 doesn't get XP from the Great General)
(Worker 8 will be able to unload on the G For at 2 E of Hamburg on the following turn to start on Chopping it into Hamburg's Granary)

Galley 5 sails 1 SE into St. Pete's
Only Zhuge Liang Unloads from Galley 5
HA 11 stays aboard Galley 5 so that it keeps all of its movement points
Galley 5 (with HA 11 aboard) sails 1 NW out of St. Pete's

Galley 3 (with HA 4 and Chariot 1 abord) sails 1 NW out of St. Pete's (we want to wait outside of St. Pete's to avoid stealing the Great General's XP)

St. Pete's should then contain only these Units:
HA 5 (needs 3 XP for 1 Promo)
HA 8 (needs 3 XP and a lot of Healing from 2 Promos)
HA 10 (needs 3 XP and a lot of Healing from 2 Promos)
Axe 5 (needs 3 XP for Woodsman III Healer Promo and some healing)
Axe 6 (needs 1 XP for Woodsman II and some healing)
Chariot 5 (needs 2 XP for 1 Promo)
Chariot 6 (needs 2 XP for 1 Promo)
Chariot 7 (needs 2 XP for 1 Promo)
Zhuge Liang

In that way, we efficiently use 19 / 20 of the XP. I can't see a way to improve upon that result.

We'd just need to decide which Unit should join with Zhuge.

I'm going to suggest HA 5, and then give HA 5 the Tactics Promotion for a 30% chance to Retreat, since HA 5 is at full health, and since he would then have a third Promotion, making him stronger overall.

Galley 4 can then sail 1 NE (to 1 SE of Ex-Yakutsk)
HA 7 can then move 1 SE onto Galley 4
Galley 4 (with Chariot 8 and HA 7 board) can then sail 1 SE to 1 NW of St. Pete's

We can figure out exactly what to do with the rest of our Units as part of the next turnset. For example, Galley 3 could move into St. Pete's if we want to unload our 2 mounted Units with movement points or we could stay at 1 NW of St. Pete's and unload our 2 mounted Units without movement points but with Galley 3 heading west faster by 2 squares.


It seems that the only Spy to have gone missing is Bond! Maybe he really was stealing more than just Hatty's techs. ;)


For discussion: Gifting Techs
Starting on T98, we can gift techs to AIs. Should we?

For example, we might gift Calendar to Mehmed in hopes that he builds MoM for us, since we have to attack the Ottomans in order to secure Istanbul. We'd anger Darius, but he is already at -4 for Trading with his Worst Enemy (Mehmed), so it's not like things would get any worse, and Darius is prevented from attacking us for a little while thanks to giving in to his Demand for Meditation.

We could also gift Mathematics and Calendar to Joao in the off chance that he builds MoM for us (or at least wastes his Hammers on it) or possibly then decides to settle on Spice Girls Island for us.

We could also gift Code of Laws to Joao in hopes that he builds Courthouses for us or switches into Caste System.

We could also gift Code of Laws to Churchill in hopes that he switches into Caste System.

There is also a risk that any tech that an AI gets can be used to bribe another AI into war with us, though.

For example, since we're going to declare war on Churchill soon, we should look at who he could bribe into the war against us.

Churchill couldn't bribe Frederick because their conflicting Religions means that Frederick isn't Pleased toward Churchill.

Similarly, Churchill couldn't bribe Kublai because Kublai is only Cautious toward Churchill and isn't Pleased toward Churchill.

Similarly, Churchill couldn't bribe Stalin because Stalin is only Cautious toward Churchill and isn't Pleased toward Churchill.

So, I think that gifting Code of Laws to Churchill is a safe move.

Darius, Saladin, Hatty, and Stalin are all Cautious toward Joao, and each of them would have to be Pleased (or Friendly in the case of Darius) toward Joao for Joao to be able to bribe them, so gifting Mathematics + Calendar + Code of Laws to Joao also seems to be a safe move.

When it comes time to declaring war on Mehmed, we'll just have to be a little bit more careful, as Saladin and Kublai could both become his war allies with him bribing them, but we won't be attacking Mehmed for a while yet.

What's interesting is that Mehmed seems to have 2 sources of Marble, as Hatty is trading Stone to Mehmed and Mehmed is trading Marble to Hatty. If either one of them uses the Marble to build MoM, I think that we'll be able to feel quite grateful to said AI, so I think that gifting Calendar to Mehmed will be a worthwhile choice.


It also looks like we could use a Settler for the area to the north of Athens, and 1 NW + 2 N of Athens on a GH square, to get 2 Clams, 1 Sheep, and 1 Gems. I'm not sure from where we'd build said Settler--Orleans? Or, will Orleans help with building troops, or even build a Courthouse? I think that the Gems Mine plus the already-netted Clams square (thanks, Alex!) would make me lean toward getting a Settler out of Orleans. After completing a Chariot there, we could probably even use the overflow Hammers to turn a Settler build item into a 2-pop-whipping action.


:newyear: We have another page in the thread.
 
Tentative preliminary provisional PPP for T97-T99 (obviously subject to change)
Diplo Policy
Spoiler :
Christianity? Yes
Stop trading with another AI? No
Give an AI a Strategic Resource? No.
Give an AI a Happiness or a Healthiness Resource? Yes.
Requests for two-sided trades or Open Borders should be refused.
Requests for Peace should be refused.
Give an AI a tech? No to Churchill, no to Frederick (in case we attack him within 10 turns), no for Horseback Riding, yes otherwise
Join a war? No
Trade a tech for a tech and/or Gold? No--let's discuss tech trades and put them in a PPP

Reasons for stopping:
We meet a new AI;
One of our Cities is threatened;
Something in the plan sounds wrong;

Turn 97, 450 BC (continued)
Research Rate: 100% (Civil Service)
Espionage Rate 0% (on Hatty)
Do not Open Borders with Joao.

Switch back to learning Priesthood (to not influence Hatty)

Revolt into Hereditary Rule and Pacifism


Ask Mehmed to attack Rostov.

XO Cognac switches Build from Spy to Settler.

London
build: Library (1-pop whip T100)
Works: Fish, Horse, Stone

York
build: Axeman
Works: Fish, G For

Axe 3 remains active on Fur

Turn 98, 425 BC
Research Rate: 100% (Switch to Civil Service)
Espionage Rate 0% (on Hatty)
Do not Open Borders with Joao.

Ask Mehmed to attack Rostov.

Capture Athens :hammer:

Paris
build: Settler
Works: Deer, Copper, Fur, Wheat, Cottage

XO Cognac
build: Settler (2-pop whip T101)
Works: Fish, Cow, Horse

Orleans
build: Spy
Works: Cow, Iron, GH Mine (Fish to Cologne for 1 turn)

Lyons
build: Galley
Works: Fish, Fur, G For

London
build: Library
Works: Fish, Horse, Stone

York
build: Axeman
Works: Fish, G For

Argent:
build: Completes Granary starts Lighthouse
Works: Fish

Hamburg
build: 1-pop whip Axeman
Works: Sheep

Cologne
build: Chariot
Works: Sheep, Fish

Ruby Bay
build: Aqueduct
Works: Fish, Gem Mine

Ivory Coast
build: Workboat
Works: Elephant

Worker 1 moves 3 SE then 1 NE (GH Wine Mine)
Worker 2 unloads from Galley
Worker 3 moves 1 E TunH For
Worker 7 moves 1 W GH For Deer
Ruby Bay (T98) Reminder makes sure Forests are "enabled" before finishing Chop.
Worker 4 Finishes Chop the G For at 1 SW of Ruby Bay
Worker 5 Move 1 S G Riv For (1 N of the Horses)
Worker 6 Move 1 NE G For (1 S of Ruby Bay)

Chariot in Egypt moves 2 NW PH

Galley 7 (4 S Lyons) sails 2 SE (going to explore east Egypt coast)
Galley 6 sails 1 SW > 1 W and unloads Settler and Worker on real game sign.

Warrior 1 remains active on GH For 1 E of Yak ruins.
Axe 3 remains active on Fur

Turn 99, 400 BC
Research Rate: 100% (Civil Service)
Espionage Rate 0% (on Hatty)
Do not Open Borders with Joao.

Paris
build: Switch to Courthouse
Works: Deer, Copper, Fur, Wheat, Cottage

XO Cognac
build: Switch to Courthouse
Works: Fish, Cow, Horse

Orleans
build: Completes Spy
Works: Cow, Iron, get Fish back from Cologne

Lyons
build: switch from Galley to Chariot
Works: Fish, Fur, G For

London
build: Library 1-pop whip T100 (back at size 4 T101) looks better than slow build to T102
Works: Fish, Horse, Stone, Fur

York
build: Complete Axeman
Works: Fish, G For, G For

Argent:
build: Lighthouse
Works: Fish

Hamburg
build: Axeman
Works: Sheep, G For

Cologne
build: 1-pop whip Chariot
Works: Sheep

Ruby Bay
build: 1-pop whip Aqueduct
Works: Gem Mine not Fish

Ivory Coast
build: Workboat
Works: Elephant

Worker 1 build Winery (GH Wine Mine)
Worker 2 ?
Worker 3 Chops TunH For (1 SW, 1 W of Argent)
Worker 7 Camps Deer (2 S Argent)
Ruby Bay (T99) Reminder makes sure Forests are "enabled" before finishing Chop.
Worker 4 Move into Ruby Bay
Worker 5 Chop G Riv For (1 N of the Horses)
Worker 6 Complete Chop G For (1 S of Ruby Bay)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Save File ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Axe 3 remains active on Fur
Warrior 1 remains active on GH For 1 E of Yak ruins.
Turn 100, 375 BC
 
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