SGOTM 9 - Hagar

[Abegweit]

I agree. Don't take chances with the GL when we are this close. I doubt we could get an MA tech for Rep + lit anyway.

Gift him into the new age immediately but don't give him lit until we are finished with the GL. If you can't get anything for Republic (and you almost certainly won't be able to), don't trade at all. However the knowledge of which tech he draws will help us decide which one to research ourselves. If he gets feud or eng, go for the other one.

Perhaps in four turns we can get Monarchy from someone else and he will be willing to trade his tech for Rep + lit + Monarchy.

 

[Andronicus]

I played two turns and we are in the new age. Do we gift Otto into the MA immediately or wait until the Great Library is completed. Two wonders have been built within the last two IBTs, so if we gift him into new age and trade rep and lit for his free tech maybe the great library could be built by another one by cascade if he trades it away immediately. I am not sure about this and I do not know which wonders have been built so far or who started the ones that have been built the last two IBTs, so AIs could switch to Great Library if Otto trades it around immediately. We have 4 more turns to go on the great library. Maybe I am too cautious, but I thought better ask.

I suggest gifting Otto up immed to find his freebie so we know what to research (ie if Otto gets feud we go for engineering and vice versa). He may not trade his for rep and lit straight away - esp if he gets feud, so we may have to wait until we have researched a medieval tech until we trade away rep and lit - long after GLib built.

edit - didnt see Abegweit's post this page - I think we are both saying the same thing

 

[markh]

Yes, that would have been my choice , too.
Monarchy he has already, so everything we can throw in at first for his MA-tech will be rep and lit.
I will finish my set this evening.

 

[Khan_Asparuh]

You can always gift him up and not buy immediatly his tech...

Sorry for not being really active here, guys, it's the end of the year and I'm a bit overcharged... But I'll take my turns and reread all when the time comes.

 

[Abegweit]

That makes four of us to make this suggestion.

I guess we agree.

 

[markh]

Yes, I will obey.
Turnlog will be here later.

 

[markh]

Preturn : mm Trondheim

IBT : Trondheim builds settler -> settler

1) 530BC : lower science to 50% -> construction still in 2

IBT : Birka completes lib -> swordsman
Odense completes galley -> harbour
Celts complete TOA

2) 510BC : lower science to 20% -> construction in 1

IBT : Otto completes The Great Lighthouse
We enter a new age -> engineering in 14
a barb ship attacks our new built galley, but our seamen sink the barb galley

3) 490BC : we gift Otto into next age and he gets engineering -> feudalism in 13
we sell polytheism for 25g to Carthage, mongols and otto have poly, so he would get it anyway

IBT : nothing

4) 470BC : nothing important

IBT : nothing

5) 450BC : nothing important

IBT : Trondheim completes settler -> SF is in line again

6) 430BC : found Farsund on dyes

IBT : we completes this -> settler

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/sgotm9glib.jpg

7) 410BC : we get engineering and 14 gold for lit and rep from Otto
we sell philosophy for 44 gold to America
we sell code of laws to Spain for 22 gold
the others have nothing to offer
we now have enough cash to increase science and reduce feudalism to 6 turns at -18gpt

IBT : we get monarchy from the lib
Forbidden City build courthouse -> forbidden palace
Celts complete hanging gardens

8) 390BC : nothing important

IBT : Copenhagen completes lib -> aqueduct

9) 370BC : notive that reyk builds a courthouse -> change to aqueduct I see no use of a courthouse there

IBT : Trondheim completes settler -> settler
wonderville completes settler -> settler
Stockholm completes lib -> barracks
Bikra completes swordsman -> swordsman

10) 350BC : dyes are hooked up

feudalism is in in 3 at -12 gpt
I would build some military as I think Gandhli will have map making soon, so we might see an Indian galley not too far aheadand we have no military
Trondheim is in line again for 4 trun settlers

 

[Andronicus]

Well done getting SF back and running

530BC : lower science to 50% -> construction still in 2

Actually construction could have been achieved 1 turn earlier ... this from 550BC

Construction can be brought down to 2 turns with some MMing
1) give Oslo mBG in place of unroaded grass and T work 2nd coast next turn (only req 2food to grow)
2) WV could use S lake tile allowing Birka one of N two and Cop other.
3) Kara only producing 1 shield and req 2 food to grow so game wasted - can use roaded grass for same production, 2 food and giving 1 extra science.

Birka completes lib -> swordsman

Regular swords - where's the rax?

Otto completes The Great Lighthouse

Capturing this would make for quicker travel to other continent

430BC : found Farsund on dyes

I note your change from dot map. This results in one less ICS town in jungle - no problem if decision is to give FC more room to develop but I would have thought it worth persisting with dotmap site 1NW as this is on coast.

410BC : we get engineering and 14 gold for lit and rep from Otto
we sell philosophy for 44 gold to America
we sell code of laws to Spain for 22 gold
the others have nothing to offer

Excellent .
Do we now gift Republic?

notive that reyk builds a courthouse -> change to aqueduct I see no use of a courthouse there

Agree

Bikra completes swordsman -> swordsman

Rax please

I would build some military as I think Gandhli will have map making soon, so we might see an Indian galley not too far aheadand we have no military

Gandhi has yet to research writing - seems he started off at 100mph and ran out of steam. Could it be that unit support costs are bankrupting him (110 turns of building units - must have a few - not sure how many free he gets with diety level unit support)?

I notice we havnt released the Mongul scout so our settler has sat around last 10 turns - Mongul galley coming down our east coast may have settler. Scout can be released as I described previously

He may not be moving because he has nowhere to go (chokes block any return to own land) and had probably explored all southern area.
Suggest releasing the E choke (can disband warrior anyway saving 2gpt) and seeing if he moves (edit also need settler to move 1S).

Currently have 30gpt unit support costs. I am keen to get as many size 7 towns as poss as this will boost our unit support numbers for upcoming wars.

There are quite a few MM possibilities.
In particular I note WV using BG which could go to Rey to speed duct.
WV has excess production - my vote is build settler in 4 by working lake - grow to size 10 next turn with current 6fpt, then 2 turns of 7fpt -lambs to Rey, borrow plains cow - then 6fpt for 4th turn as buid settler going back to size 9. Can then build 4 turn settlers twice with 5fpt to bring back to size 7 then build lib.
T is using 2 BGs which it shares with Oslo whilst Oslo struggles with poor production and poor growth (1fpt). Both these could go to Oslo if T uses unused BG 1SW of T and borrows BG N/NW currently used by WV.
Cop can build duct quicker if it swaps lake and plains with WV
Not sure if people want to grow Stockholm to size 7 - will req harbour, duct and growth will be slow. I suggest instead increase production by using incense hill and slowly grow at 1fpt. After waste this increases production from 4 to 6 spt and gives us a source of military units.

 

[markh]

I lowered science as we were running high deficit and we had not much gold left. I do not remember whether it would have been enough to let us research construction a turn earlier.

We had no military at all, so I just wanted to have at least two or three units in that area in case Gandhi would have researched mm during my turnset. His first units he would ship would be archers and warriors so reg swordsmen would be good enough. The expansion phase for the AIs on our island is almost over, so I think we should be a little careful now.

Yes, I wanted to give FC more room to make it more efficient. There is still space for two more cities. I think our first war is not too far ahead, so we can expand there soon.

I think I noticed that Gandhi had writing since I started my turnset, so I think mm is not too far ahead for him. Maybe I am wrong, but I thought so.

 

[Andronicus]

I think I noticed that Gandhi had writing since I started my turnset, so I think mm is not too far ahead for him. Maybe I am wrong, but I thought so.

Not yet

 

[markh]

Maybe I should get some new glasses.
Of course Birka should change to barracks then.

 

[Andronicus]

Just a thought, we are not far from Invention so do we really want swords / MI. How about some trebs and pikes to go with zerks. We could build a couple of pikes in Stockholm after it completes rax and cities with nothing to build could always pump out a treb or 2. Wont be long and we will want to be pumping out vet zerks.

 

[markh]

I agree. I just thought at least a few units wouldn't be too bad. In my single player games lately I have been sneaked attacked much being low on military, so I am a little suspicious. This did cost me the last COTM.

 

[Abegweit]

I guess I'm up?

I'll look at the save this evening and post tomorrow morn.

Pikes and trebs coming up.

 

[Andronicus]

Abegweit - up
IstariAsuka - skip till notifies has functioning computer
Khan Asparuh - on deck
Andronicus
juballs 2001
markh

 

[Abegweit]

I just had a look at the save. It looks a lot healthier than the last time I came up.

Two questions before I play:

1) I note that Carthage is building the SoZ. How long has this been going on? How close is Hannibal to completing it?

2) I am strongly in favour of teaching the poor backward people overseas the knowledge of Republic. Any objections?

 

[Andronicus]

IBT: Carthage building SOZ. Carthage build MOM in Carthage. Barcelona builds Colossus.

9(550BC)

juballs described Carth starting it in 550BC
Looking at Carthage which is size 6, I estimate it is producing about 10spt so likely to be built in 10 turns

 

[Andronicus]

I am strongly in favour of teaching the poor backward people overseas the knowledge of Republic. Any objections?

There are 2 options here
1) Keep other continent backward so easier to conquer
2) Gift Republic and mono as soon as we can get it in hope they research some of the upper path for us.

I favour latter approach as the science race would appear the limitting factor in this game

 

[Abegweit]

OK. Agreed on gifting Republic.

What about a quick war to grab the SoZ? A half-dozen ACs would be a great compliment to our main force when we move overseas. The extra HP makes them about equivalent to knights. We aren't ready for war yet, but could be by the time it's finished.

IMO, this development makes Carthage our #1 target. We should make sure they don't get more than one of them. We will have Invention in about 15-20 turns. Quite nice timing I'd say

In view of this, it looks like you get the first war and the GA. Have fun!

I'll be at this in a couple of hours and post by the end of the afternoon (EDT).

 

[Andronicus]

What about a quick war to grab the SoZ? A half-dozen ACs would be a great compliment to our main force when we move overseas. The extra HP makes them about equivalent to knights. We aren't ready for war yet, but could be by the time it's finished.

IMO, this development makes Carthage our #1 target.

There are pros and cons for all 3 targets on out continent.

My vote goes for taking Monguls first as we are ave militarily v them and weak against all others other than Americans. Attacking Monguls first would enable earlier attack - dont have to build up as big a force. Monguls have only 1 city not accessable from sea for zerks - Karakorum. They do have iron. We could do with a road through jungle first to bring up reinforcements.

Ottomen have GLH which I believe is a far more valuable prize than SoZ. All Ottomen cities are on coast. They have no iron so best defensive unit will be spear and best offensive unit horse. Should have quite a few units giving chance for producing a leader or 2. Option of sending a naval force of 8 zerks to Istanbul. Once we have GLH our conquest by sea will be sped up.

Main reason for early Carthage attack would be to prevent them becoming a greater strength with AC. I worry an early attack may stall as zerks have to make slow way by land to Carthage (inland city) against NMs reinforced by AC - a strong combination. We would need pikes to protect our zerks and trebs to weaken NMs. It will take a while longer to build up this strength - time where we could be honing our fighting skills against Monguls or Ottomen.