SGOTM 9 - Hagar

[Andronicus]

One or two pikes is about right. We need one now since the AI has an AC. By the time we attack, we'll might need another. As for the attackers, 4 zerks and 4 trebs or 5-3 should be enough. Carthage probably has about 3-4 defenders right now and that will be about 4-5 when we go to war. Add a sword plus an archer or two and this will be more than enough to take the city down.

Is there any advantage to a settler being dropped off as well to give a city 2SE of Carthage?
The jungle terrain north of west choke necessitates a galley trip for last part.
Also poss city 4SE of Carthage which speeds road network to Carthage, although the crucial part of the war should be well over before the roads are connected

 

[Andronicus]

General: we need war for a GA and we need core growth to take advantage of it. Instead we are doing infra. That should come afterwards.

Not sure I understand you here. Are you saying we should increase our core cities size - if so why keep pruning back to size 7-8. Or are you saying we need more city sites and hence more military to take them?

I think the most important infrastructure is the libs for our least corruptive cities, also ducts to get to size 7 for those not on fresh water. We have almost finished these. After that the priority should be rax / military. I suggest slowing down the settlers for a while. T and WV can run above size 7 and when req reducing in size can spit out a 5fpt 4 turn settler shedding 2 pop.

 

[Andronicus]

Just had a squiz at the 1000BC comparisons. Interestingly we seemed to be holding our own with respect to territory and city numbers (Wacken was leading at that stage) but were behind in contacting other continent (dont think that mattered). We ranked high for food, but low for shields and gold.

An interesting insight into strats gained from checking which techs had been discovered by C3C teams. All had discovered an optional govt - 4 including us had gone for republic and 3 for monarchy. Even the 2 teams that would rank highest Wacken and Klarius went different routes. It will be very interesting to see which turns out the correct choice. I believe the longer until Gandhi gets MM, the better our choice.

 

[Abegweit]

Not sure I understand you here. Are you saying we should increase our core cities size - if so why keep pruning back to size 7-8.

With the exception of settler/worker pumps, all core cities should have roughly the same need for luxes. This allows us to optimise the lux slider. Thus a city with a market can be larger than one without it (the exact difference depends on the number of luxes) and an inner city can be larger than an outer one (the exact difference depends on the amount of corruption).

When I started my turns, WV was size nine and the rest of our core was 3-6. That is way too big a difference. So I pruned it back and grew the others until all were about the same. Right now Stavenger is too big (the proof is that it has a scientist). I suggest immediately building a worker. This unit could be folded into Stockholm, which needs to grow but doesn't have food of its own.

Right now, our optimal size is about 7-8. The optimal size needs to grow until it reaches 12. I think a priority for your turns is to make this number bigger. We are close to our GA and big core cities will benefit from it more than mediocre ones.

Edit: I have no problem with setting the lux slider to 30% - or even more. What is wrong is when the slider only benefits one city. Sometimes this is unavoidable (as with a settler factory in the early game) but there is no reason for it at this stage in our game. As a rule of thumb as soon as a city gets a specialist, that means it is too big.

Edit2: I still think that WV needs to drop below size 7 to become a settler/worker pump. This is especially true since it is now very difficult to push Stavenger into this role. However, there is little point in doing this until other cities are ready to use the tiles which WV relinquishes.

 

[Andronicus]

Had hoped to be able to report that we were the proud owners of Carthage.
Unfortunately we fell 1 relined regNM short. We have 4 zerks with 3, 2, 1 and 1 hp left next turn (unless anyone thinks its worth attempting attack with pike this turn). Good news is 3 AC destroyed - I think Carth has 1 more and will produce another in 2 turns (hopefully ours). Unfortunately Carth had 5 NMs defending.

We are in our golden age, we also have chivalry from GLib and I have switched builds to knights as I feel these will be quicker to conquor for same cost (with a number of zerks in support for amphib assaults) Still have many corrupt towns building trebs - I found these not very useful and question whether we might find a better build (eg galley in coastal cities).

I have grown most cities to benefit from GA - high food producing cities can quickly spit out settlers and workers if getting too big.

I have to apologise for 1 major error. I traded Invention to Otto for 63gpt also getting spices and gold but giving dyes and ivory. Unfortunately Otto had no harbour so war with Carth cut our trade route shooting our rep and losing our 63gpt (and spices )

Full report to follow

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm9/Hagar_SG009_AD0250_01.SAV

 

[Andronicus]

Just spent an hour typing my turn log and suggestions when power blacked out - lost it all
It's 1am now so I'll redo it in the morning (well later this morning )

 

[Andronicus]

Turn log take 2

Pre flight
Shortrush zerk in Rey (producing 10spt) to give 4th zerk req for Carth attack
Move pike and treb from east and 3 zerks from core to west choke
Need 5 galleys, have 2. Tromso switched to galley, 1 will be built on time, 5th to be rushed turn 4. Req 2 more trebs also to be rushed turn 4 - will req 188g
Plan to deliver 10 units - 4 zerk, 4 trebs and 2 pikes to 2SE of Carth on turn 7

Turn 1 70AD
Cop harbour -> rax
Rey zerk -> horse
Tromso galley -> harbour
Celts now have Engineering (? traded with Otto who has gold)

Turn 2 90AD
Hangsund settled N of east choke - need strengthening of this area's defences as I have stolen a pike for Carth campaign and Monguls will not be happy at being squeezed

Turn 3 110AD
Gunpowder -> Chemistry (have salt)
Oslo duct -> rax
Stock rax -> zerk
Stav worker -> musket
Otto building Sun Tzu's (but Celts already started in Entremont - super city)
Celtic trade expired - we need more money for planned rushes
Trade Otto Invention, dyes and ivory for spice, 63gpt and 65g
Trade Celts Invention for 18gpt and 36g (would prefer not to advance Celts but Otto would have traded anyway).

Turn 4 130AD
T settler -> duct (our GA will be soon - want to grow all cities to get max benefit)
Rey horse -> musket
Birka pike -> zerk
Aarhus pike -> zerk
Vodso galley -> ch
Oslo + Cop grow size 7, add worker to Stock -> size 7 also
Mil now ave to Carth - was weak last turn
Rush galley and 2 trebs

Turn 5 150AD
Cop rax -> zerk
Odense galley -> ch
Bodo treb -> worker
Kara ch -> lib
Karistad treb -> worker

Turn 6 170AD
Invasion force loaded up and placed ready for next turn
Embassy Otto - Istanbul 4 spears, size 6 - soon size 7 - 8spt, building coll. Have 5 lux (1 from Carth, 2 from us), horses but no iron
Embassy Monguls - Karakorum has 3 spears, size 4 with no growth (clown), building coll, has iron and horses but no lux
dow Carthage
Otto req gunpowder to ally - not worth it, Monguls will ally for nothing -> ally Monguls

Turn 7 190AD
WV riots - notice we are no longer getting spice from Otto, check trades - no longer getting gpt from Otto . I didnt recognise that only trade route is via Carthage .
2 AC have left Carth and approach west choke -> amphib attack
zerk d AC 1-0 -> GOLDEN AGE
zerk d AC 2-0
Land troops 2SE of Carth - last min adjustment to leave pike + treb 1SW of rest to protect open zerk

Turn 8 210AD
AC d pike and destroys treb 2-2
WV lib -> settler
Rey musket -> zerk
Move troops next to Carth (1 pike, 2 zerk, 3 trebs left in stack)

Turn 9 230AD
All bombards fail -> delay attack 1 turn to allow other 2 zerks to join stack

Turn 10 250AD
Chemistry -> Metallurgy (need to think where we want to go here - metallurgy will obsolete SoZ but alt is Theo which I suspect Celts are researching for us)
Chivalry from GLib
T duct -> lib
WV settler -> knight
Rey harbour -> knight
Stock zerk -> knight
FC Forbidden Palace -> lib
Sw d AC (redlined one which beat our pike) 3-2
Trebs take hp off 2NMs
zerk d NM 4-2
zerk d NM 5-2
zerk d NM 6-2 -> elite
zerk d NM 7-2 - 1 2hp NM left
horse l NM 7-3 - 1hp left - just fail taking Carth
Sarpsborg founded

Thats where I leave it

Roster
Abegweit
IstariAsuka - waiting to hear if computer fixed
Khan Asparuh
Andronicus - just played
juballs 2001 - up next
markh - on deck (roster editted)

 

[Andronicus]

I have been hiring a scientist in all corrupt towns that only had 1 fpt excess ( where no benefit in growing 1 larger). Now we have FP many of these towns will have potential to be productive - particuarly if they can use our GA to speed along a ch.
T & FC are building libs and Kara building duct otherwise our core is pushing military for the war. We still have 6 treb builds going - I think these are a waste as zerks can account for NMs and pikes easily, trebs no use amphibiously and cant keep up with knights.
I favour a flat out push to flatten Carth ASAP, then keep rolling on to Monguls and Otto which should be rapid once our knight numbers are up. I recommend building knights until sufficient force for this continent, then back to zerks to prepare amphib attack on other continent with knight support.
Query where research? I favour metallurgy - sure this wastes SoZ, but with knights these are less potent, we can not get AC until we build new city (settler in place 2SE of Carth) and rush harbour, then will want to rush rax as well so AC are vets. 1 AC every 5 turns starting at best 6 turns from now will not help much when we have 1-2 knights being produced every turn during GA. This gives opportunity for Celts to research Theo for us. Do we then research optional tech mil trad to speed conquest of other continent or progress rapidly through upper branch? The main value in capturing SoZ is to deny Carth the free AC.
I have not traded Gunpowder to Otto - I dont want to be facing Celtic muskets - not afraid of them, but they increase our losses.
Currently mil adviser says we are weak to Celts, ave to Indians, Spain and Carth and strong to rest. We will rapidly be strong to all.
Gandhi researched no techs during my turnset - still lacks writing, currency and poly - at this rate we will be in modern ages when he learns MM

 

[markh]

No trebs when we have knights. I would proceed to military tradition. With cavs we can clear our continent even faster and zerks + cavs are a nice combination for invading the other continent.
Pity about our rep, but now we are in warmode anyway. So the action begins.
I will take my turns tonight.

edit : I think juballs2001 is up before me. I always played after him.

 

[Andronicus]

If we research metallurgy / mil trad then we can pump out cavs during latter part GA and I'm fairly certain AI will research theol in meantime.
Gets my vote

Apologies - I mucked up roster - too many

Abegweit
IstariAsuka - awaiting news of computer back in action
Khan Asparuh
Andronicus - just played
juballs 2001 - up
markh - on deck

 

[markh]

Apologies - I mucked up roster - too many

I wished it was 8 hours later, so I could have this, too.

cheers

 

[juballs2001]

um... i am up, i can play tonight and friday and post on friday. i am gone all weekend, so if i dont post by friday then markh can take my turn

 

[Andronicus]

Just a short note of activities in middle of, settler 2SE Carth planned to settle next turn there, settler on way to 4SE Carth, galleys can speed units from W choke, later from 4SE Carth
Worker gang in pos to irrigate dye tile then take irrigation to north of east choke

 

[juballs2001]

are we rasing towns and building new ones with settlers, i assume yes but i best check before i take carthage this turn

keep in mind that carthage has both SOZ and MOM in it, so razing might not be a good choice, i was just wondering what we were doing.

razing some, keeping others, if so please tell me which and what


i will complete my turn tommorow....

im about half way through, just stuck on the razing or not.

 

[Andronicus]

are we rasing towns and building new ones with settlers, i assume yes but i best check before i take carthage this turn

keep in mind that carthage has both SOZ and MOM in it, so razing might not be a good choice, i was just wondering what we were doing.

razing some, keeping others, if so please tell me which and what


i will complete my turn tommorow....

im about half way through, just stuck on the razing or not.

I strongly recommend keeping all - each one saves an extra settler. Heal units outside cities allows recapture if flips.

 

[juballs2001]

I strongly recommend keeping all - each one saves an extra settler. Heal units outside cities allows recapture if flips.

ok sounds good, i will work on this tonight for a bit longer, and leave it till tommorow and post tommorow.

any other major points besides the irrigation the east choke?

settlers are in place and one has settled, other then that i am just taking it to the carths... any other important points?

 

[Andronicus]

any other important points?

Go get 'em

Reseach cavs - they will be much quicker

 

[juballs2001]

lol sounds good adronicus...

and i will do that.

 

[Andronicus]

any other major points besides the irrigation the east choke?

workers near W choke should prioritise supply line to Carth
settle as planned 2SE and 4SE of Carth and road connecting tiles

 

[juballs2001]

workers near W choke should prioritise supply line to Carth
settle as planned 2SE and 4SE of Carth and road connecting tiles

yup... done and in the process of, i just finished, i have to post a log, but the save is uploaded. i wont have time to post the turn log until tommorow.

basically west and southern carthage no longer exist they are ours.

they are almost connected, workers are working.

handful of beserks, kinights are ready for the final solution of the carthagian people