SGOTM 9 - jeffelammar
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
denyd
Emperor
Thanks Jove
We've got to pick up the science pace or we'll spend forever getting through the Modern Age. Most of those techs are greater than Atomic Theory.
I might have to adjust my prior thinking and suggest we kill off everyone ASAP except the Ottoman. That would reduce the cost of each tech. The problem with that we'd lose a lot of Celtic gold that's currently supporting our research. Once again perched on the horns of a dilemma
We've got to pick up the science pace or we'll spend forever getting through the Modern Age. Most of those techs are greater than Atomic Theory.
I might have to adjust my prior thinking and suggest we kill off everyone ASAP except the Ottoman. That would reduce the cost of each tech. The problem with that we'd lose a lot of Celtic gold that's currently supporting our research. Once again perched on the horns of a dilemma
jeffelammar
Space for rent
Let's kill off Spain and America. Then we can reassess when we want to take out Otto and/or Brennus. One advantage of the SG format is we can make these decisions over several days instead of a couple hours when you play on your own.denyd said:
denyd
Emperor
Once the Infantry Army has landed in Spain if we happen to get another MGL what's the best use for it? Another Infantry Army? Hurry the Iron Works?
Question, can the Pentagon be built without Military Tradition being discovered or the Military Academy being built? I don't think I've ever had enough armies without having either MT & the MA to see it available before.
Question, can the Pentagon be built without Military Tradition being discovered or the Military Academy being built? I don't think I've ever had enough armies without having either MT & the MA to see it available before.
The Military Academy needs Military Tradition and a victorious army.
I'm pretty sure the Pentagon is independent of tech- only 3 armies is required. It'd be cool to have size=4 armies, huh? Right up to the point our 19/20 infantry army gets killed by a redlined warrior...
I'm pretty sure the Pentagon is independent of tech- only 3 armies is required. It'd be cool to have size=4 armies, huh? Right up to the point our 19/20 infantry army gets killed by a redlined warrior...
denyd
Emperor
Have we taken away Spain's horses yet?
If so, then there's no reason to ever have a unit in a Spainish city. If not, then let's make unhooking the iron & horses a priority.
Facing only longbows should provide lots of MGL chances.
If so, then there's no reason to ever have a unit in a Spainish city. If not, then let's make unhooking the iron & horses a priority.
Facing only longbows should provide lots of MGL chances.
jeffelammar
Space for rent
This is correct. I've had the Pentagon in AW games without being close to MT.Jove said:
pindicator
Emperor
Up through 900AD now
Situation in Spain is fine. Probably could get by without the army, but it is nice to have. I plan on shuttling another infantry or two up next turn and then using the army and elite zerks to burn Madrid... may not happen by the end of my turnset tho.
Industrialization just came in. Factories being ordered throughout the core ... actually, remind me on that because I haven't done it yet. Sci Method is up next, due in 4. Need to check the slider on that too...
Should finish up tomorrow night.
Situation in Spain is fine. Probably could get by without the army, but it is nice to have. I plan on shuttling another infantry or two up next turn and then using the army and elite zerks to burn Madrid... may not happen by the end of my turnset tho.
Industrialization just came in. Factories being ordered throughout the core ... actually, remind me on that because I haven't done it yet. Sci Method is up next, due in 4. Need to check the slider on that too...
Should finish up tomorrow night.
jeffelammar
Space for rent
@pindicator - Don't forget to build Factories in the core 
(You did ask)
(You did ask)
pindicator
Emperor
Ha, that's why I post updates, silly mistakes like that. I'll head north and burn burn... no, not Santiago either, that one has a wonder as well. Well, shoot, there go the easy targets. Okay, army is going to stay put at Barcelona and zerks will go hop back in their boat to burn burn either Valencia or Salamanca.
Back in the boat!
Back in the boat!
We'll need to stop after this turn set to get our save fixed, too, not that India will be building the Apollo program any time soon.
I think that taking out both Spain and America, and then reassessing wrt the Celts is a good plan. Once we hit the modern age, though, Otto can go, and then we'd just have us, the Celts, and the Indians. This way we could still get money from the Celts but be down to our final 3 civs.
Enjoy tromping through Spain.
I think that taking out both Spain and America, and then reassessing wrt the Celts is a good plan. Once we hit the modern age, though, Otto can go, and then we'd just have us, the Celts, and the Indians. This way we could still get money from the Celts but be down to our final 3 civs.
Enjoy tromping through Spain.
denyd
Emperor
So Sci Meth is up, what's next?
If we aren't going to trade the Celts to current, we'll probably want the Corporation next as it's cheaper than Atomic Theory.
How long is left on the Celts big gpt deal? How much does he have in cash? Should we sell him Industrialization? We know he'll build US right away? That would eat up one of his city's production for 15-20 turns.
If we aren't going to trade the Celts to current, we'll probably want the Corporation next as it's cheaper than Atomic Theory.
How long is left on the Celts big gpt deal? How much does he have in cash? Should we sell him Industrialization? We know he'll build US right away? That would eat up one of his city's production for 15-20 turns.
jeffelammar
Space for rent
Couple adminstrative points.
1. I'm not going to have time to write our Middle Ages spoiler. Anyone else want to step up?
2. As CKS pointed out we need to pause to let Alan fix our save for the mobilization issue. Once Pindcator posts the save, TimBentley should wait for a post from me or AlanH stating that the file has been patched before downloading it.
And also a game point: One possibility is to go ahead and take out the Celts and keep the Ottomans. If the timing works out right, all we need for the GL Elevator is ourselves and one other. To know if we want to do this, we need to see how the war to take out America goes.
1. I'm not going to have time to write our Middle Ages spoiler. Anyone else want to step up?
2. As CKS pointed out we need to pause to let Alan fix our save for the mobilization issue. Once Pindcator posts the save, TimBentley should wait for a post from me or AlanH stating that the file has been patched before downloading it.
And also a game point: One possibility is to go ahead and take out the Celts and keep the Ottomans. If the timing works out right, all we need for the GL Elevator is ourselves and one other. To know if we want to do this, we need to see how the war to take out America goes.
-I'm still in favor of giving no more techs to Celts until they research Communism. Unless we know for sure selling them a certain tech won't knock them off the commie path. I'm not in a position to figure out what the AI will do at the moment.
-If Otto becomes the last man standing, that's fine with me. I think we still want to use Brennus for the tech elevator, and keep Otto from ever meeting him. Then we can take out America immediately, Celts at the start of the endgame... That'd leave all the Modern techs for Otto to buy from Ghandi, and a whole new world for us to conquer.
@denyd: Spain's horses are at Barcelona. Their iron was where Toledo used to be. Their saltpeter is unhooked at Madrid, at least last time I checked. They're importing Iron from somebody though.
@jeffelamar: I'll do the spoiler if no one else wants to. Anyone?
-If Otto becomes the last man standing, that's fine with me. I think we still want to use Brennus for the tech elevator, and keep Otto from ever meeting him. Then we can take out America immediately, Celts at the start of the endgame... That'd leave all the Modern techs for Otto to buy from Ghandi, and a whole new world for us to conquer.
@denyd: Spain's horses are at Barcelona. Their iron was where Toledo used to be. Their saltpeter is unhooked at Madrid, at least last time I checked. They're importing Iron from somebody though.
@jeffelamar: I'll do the spoiler if no one else wants to. Anyone?
denyd
Emperor
I'd like to keep 2 AI around besides India. The first we can gift all of the techs needed to build a spaceship (the Ottoman might be best for this). Then once India takes the GL and elevators to space ship potential, we eliminate them and leave the entire continent available to India. The second AI (I was thinking of the Celts on an island) gets introduced to India and can use cash we've given them to buy techs from India. That gives India working capital to rush SS parts and if we surround the Celtic island with BBs will protect India from any potential threats. We could then withdraw all of our troops from the home island (disbanding most to improve the new island) while letting India expand.
pindicator
Emperor
910AD - Deal with Celts just expired; at 100% science I am looking at -24gpt with 137 in the bank. So I could do Sci Meth at 4 turns and then reassess.
Edit: Scratch that idea -- a 2nd deal expires in 2 turns where Celts give us 73gpt. We need to sell something or turn down our science.
The Current Trades:
Do we want to sell or continue to wait? He's had Nationalism for only a few turns ... like 2 or 3, so I know he isn't a commie yet.
Edit: Scratch that idea -- a 2nd deal expires in 2 turns where Celts give us 73gpt. We need to sell something or turn down our science.
The Current Trades:
Do we want to sell or continue to wait? He's had Nationalism for only a few turns ... like 2 or 3, so I know he isn't a commie yet.
Hmmmm, my first impression is to wait 7 turns until the wines deal expires, then if we must sell tech, we can get the wines back.... Do we need them? How happy are our people?
-ATTN all civ experts: If we trade the AI a tech that opens up their preferences, will they switch away from the tech they're researching to start on a new one? For example, say Brennus is currently researching Communism, commie that he is at heart. We trade him Electricity, which makes Replacable Parts, a more desirable tech to the AI than communism, available for Brennus to research. Will he switch, or will he finish communism first?
Sorry Pindicator, your question just raises more unanswered questions for me. If it were my own solo game I'd wing it, but for this one I want to know what I'm doing.
Edit: Also, have we started Sci Method yet? If we get it now, we *may* be committing ourselves to the ToE sooner than the modern age. The reason is that the amount of time it takes for the AI to research a tech affects how attractive that tech is to them. Researching Sci Method will make it easier for Brennus to research it himself. If he does, and starts ToE, we have to either do it ourselves right away, or start fighting Brennus so he doesn't finish it. I won't do the AI math at this hour, if anyone else knows what to make of this, jump in. I'll get on it tomorrow...
And Edit: all is not lost if we have to give up a 73gpt deal. We'd lose that much science, taking a turn off our rate. Unless we join say 20 workers to cities on that turn. Who knows, maybe some productive cities aren't at size=12 yet. Or 20 scientists. Half-and-half is probably best. I'm not pushing this idea hard, mind you, I'm setting out an alternative.
-ATTN all civ experts: If we trade the AI a tech that opens up their preferences, will they switch away from the tech they're researching to start on a new one? For example, say Brennus is currently researching Communism, commie that he is at heart. We trade him Electricity, which makes Replacable Parts, a more desirable tech to the AI than communism, available for Brennus to research. Will he switch, or will he finish communism first?
Sorry Pindicator, your question just raises more unanswered questions for me. If it were my own solo game I'd wing it, but for this one I want to know what I'm doing.
Edit: Also, have we started Sci Method yet? If we get it now, we *may* be committing ourselves to the ToE sooner than the modern age. The reason is that the amount of time it takes for the AI to research a tech affects how attractive that tech is to them. Researching Sci Method will make it easier for Brennus to research it himself. If he does, and starts ToE, we have to either do it ourselves right away, or start fighting Brennus so he doesn't finish it. I won't do the AI math at this hour, if anyone else knows what to make of this, jump in. I'll get on it tomorrow...
And Edit: all is not lost if we have to give up a 73gpt deal. We'd lose that much science, taking a turn off our rate. Unless we join say 20 workers to cities on that turn. Who knows, maybe some productive cities aren't at size=12 yet. Or 20 scientists. Half-and-half is probably best. I'm not pushing this idea hard, mind you, I'm setting out an alternative.
pindicator
Emperor
Oh gosh, I don't know any of those calculations for the math. What I can say is that I stopped without going far because I knew this was a big debate topic among the team before: whether or not to trade.
Best situation would be to see Brennus continue whatever (hopefully commie) tech he was researching before we trade whatever for nationalism. As far as researching Sci Meth, it was only because it was a 4-turn research that I went for it. We can pick it up later; no beakers have been invested into it yet.
We could get rid of some workers, I suppose, but we still have a lot of land left to develop. I've been splitting them between core and outside duties, and am starting to get some scientist specialists going on the outside cities. We could pop down some more settlers and get more specialist towns crammed in up there if that's what we want -- but settlers I think need to be used for Spain first and foremost.
Best situation would be to see Brennus continue whatever (hopefully commie) tech he was researching before we trade whatever for nationalism. As far as researching Sci Meth, it was only because it was a 4-turn research that I went for it. We can pick it up later; no beakers have been invested into it yet.
We could get rid of some workers, I suppose, but we still have a lot of land left to develop. I've been splitting them between core and outside duties, and am starting to get some scientist specialists going on the outside cities. We could pop down some more settlers and get more specialist towns crammed in up there if that's what we want -- but settlers I think need to be used for Spain first and foremost.
denyd
Emperor
From what I've seen, the AI will complete what it starts (buildings, techs. etc).
What are our other research options? Researching Sci Meth isn't bad as long as we give Brennus something better to research (Corp, Refining, Gov techs).
I'd like to research at full power as long as possible. So I'd wait until the second gpt deals expires and then sell a tech to the Celts for all of his gold (industrialization is a good choice if he doesn't have it)
What are our other research options? Researching Sci Meth isn't bad as long as we give Brennus something better to research (Corp, Refining, Gov techs).
I'd like to research at full power as long as possible. So I'd wait until the second gpt deals expires and then sell a tech to the Celts for all of his gold (industrialization is a good choice if he doesn't have it)
