SGOTM 9 - Wacken

Ok, we go for the space jumbo.

But first, please concentrate on getting gold. Looking at the graphs, we should have good chances.

Please don't leave to much polution for me, i already envision myself cleaning the world after you make a nuclear world war :D

I don't think we are in a hurry to get espionage. Any tech beyong those needed for India to build a spaceship should certainly not take us back from gifting our core to India.

BTW gozpel, looking at the score graph, you can clearly see that:
-Those not to be named gifted their core 30 turns from now.
-Hagar gifted their core 50 turns from now.
-CDZ probably gifter their core 40-50 turns from now and reconquered elsewhere.
-Jeffelammar is the only remaining real uncertainty.

Now it would be nice if you can hide our progress by losing to India and taking from spain at roughly the same speed, trying to keep our territory at a constant 65% :)
If not that, just having it at 65% at the end of your turnset should be nice enough i guess.
Those not to be named will be ecstatic to see our graph go horizontal for another 30 turns. The stronger their disapointment when they see the final result :D
 
WackenOpenAir said:
Ok, we go for the space jumbo.

Now it would be nice if you can hide our progress by losing to India and taking from spain at roughly the same speed, trying to keep our territory at a constant 65% :)

Those not to be named will be ecstatic to see our graph go horizontal for another 30 turns. The stronger their disapointment when they see the final result :D
Click to expand...

It is of course possible that they pulled such a stunt themselves. They may indeed have already finished and be reading our thread.
 
Checking in. I agree we go all the way to space for India. If Gozpel is off line for a while it should be Wackens turn set now, right?
 
Turn0:
F8 - 63% world area, may become slightly more in my turnset IMO.

Change culture producing buildings to other things.
Start spending gold on MA on other continent.
Make New York grow 12. Start workers in nearest cities who will be disbanded when NY is capital.

Turn1:
Move bombers within Spain bombing range.
Upgrade our tanks.
Draft some mech infantry from oversized cities.

Turn2:
Moving some in preparation to attack spain.

Turn3:
Buy some more MA.
Invade Spain. Landing 16MA on coastal mountains. Bomb 10 units to death.
Otto declare on us.

Turn4:
Destroy 3 spanish cities.

Turn5:
Destroy 2 more spanish cities.

Turn6:
Capture Valentia for Uranium and Harbor. Build new city on Alimunium.
Take spanish cities on our second continent.
Take southern Island city.
Disband one city to get to 65%.

Turn7:
Take Spanish capital.
Satellites-Robotics.

Turn8:
not much.

Turn9:
Oops mistake, forgot to clear spanish invasion group. Retake those cities.
Spain is destroyed.

Turn10:
Barbarians appear on Spanish island. Beware for them and keep some unit around.
Maybe use them to get upgrades on the conscript mech infantry.

Airports built in large numbers. The second continent still needs some, but first the workers have more important work to do there.
Lots of irrigation must be changed to mines. I planned to keep the cities where i stationed units and disband at least the 4 cities around new york that are building workers.
The cities around new york cannot be disbanded before new york is capital. The amount of surrounding cities are a factor in deciding the new capital.
Risor probably must be disbanded, but first other cities must be sufficiently reduced so that New York will become capital.
Size 8 max probably. I did some drafting to reduce the biggest cities.

I started some battle ships to control the ocean in the future war against India.
And of course, because they are cool :)
"Losing" the capital and thus production made me rushbuild the last bits in Copenhagen and Bergen.

Bombers in Alesund can keep Ottomans from sending out any ships.

India has the freedom to take our core except for the Library.
As soon as Robotics is about to be done (1 or 2 turns to go, depending on nearby Indian units) gift All tech to Ottomans, give them contact and open up Oslo.

Karasjok started building the space ship. This may induce India to build one as well.
Also consider gifting India a stack of workers for conquering.

As soon as we have done our job of getting the needed tech for India, we will have to swich governments to something without war weariness.

Unfortunately, robotics is slowed down to 6 turns. You might want to do some micro management for science first.
 

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I'm sure I posted in here about my absense? :confused:

Anyways, I'm back. 4 fat needles in my spinal area was "interesting" :lol:

Should I play? Who mentioned Communism before, is that good enough government?
 
Oh hi goz, you are back soon :)
Sorry if you feel we passed you. :(

Sure it is your turn now. Play if you want.
Or wait for answers to questions you may have if you prefer.

I have no experience with communism, but i think it will suck big time for our empire. It will spread the corruption, making our new core half corrupt (if not very corrupt) and all small cities less than fully corrupt. It is useless for the small cities to be less than fully corrupt.
(A little secret not recognised by the majority of civ players is that cities are simply more productive with specialists when they are more than as little as 50-60% corrupt or so, even large cities)

We could think about a pop rush government.
This should provide quite some pop rush production.
However, i think this only is an option if a pop rush government (feudalism i guess) does not screw up our core.
We could then try to find a way to use our gpt as well. It will not be so easy, but we could disconnect resources and upgrade stuff.
(can bombers be upgraded to stealth ones ?)

All that is however a lot of work for some optimization.
If you guys just want to keep it simple and "press enter" for the comming 100 turns till India builds the space ship, it is probably just as good.
 
Communism is actually pretty good in a large empire on C3C, and I think we ought to go for it. I used it in the later stages of cotm19 and thought it was great. Once you have Secret police and lots of courthouses you can achieve great production and a good economy. I thought it was a pop rushing govt as well?
 
The show must go on and it was my mistake not making sure you got the message. :) It was a small procedure, Offa probably knows about it and it's just a couple of days of discomfort. (They kinda burnt off nerves in my back, not all the way, just half and it should give me relief for a few months, maybe a year)

The game: Quick execution as always from Wacken, he doesn't sit and wait and we're at the Indian grabbing stage.

We should actually go Monarchy, for the only reason of gold for stuff.

Whipping is ok and if we use that Communism is the best gov. Feudalism is alright, but I tried it a couple of times and it is rough in some areas.

Fascism is also rough and the rest of the govs we can just forget.

Monarchy is quite good when warring and we also have the choice of mobilization, that won't hurt too much if we choose to do that. Our economy will fall, granted, but at least we have the choice of buying stuff, instead of just whipping. Whipping for me is plain despotism at this stage.

If you don't like Monarchy, I pick Communism as second. Nothing else matters. Just keep in mind, we won't need a fantastic income, we already have a nice military.

Btw, I laughed when I read about those battleships. :) They ARE cool and if we can build enough of them we can continue blocking Gandhi :lol: Well, we can dream, can't we? I played a GOTM long time ago where I put 3 civs on a tiny island and blocked them with them units, it was so great and noone even said: Good job. I have to find that thread. It was Mericka, X-Ville and some other nation.

I check in tomorrow morning (my time -> 9hrs from now) and see what you have to say.
 
Offa said:
Communism is actually pretty good in a large empire on C3C, and I think we ought to go for it. I used it in the later stages of cotm19 and thought it was great. Once you have Secret police and lots of courthouses you can achieve great production and a good economy. I thought it was a pop rushing govt as well?
Click to expand...

Please, i am not convinced could this first be done in a test game with similar empire ?

It is of absolutely no use at all to decrease corruption with less than 40% in the ICS towns.

Only if the ICS towns get 50-60% or less corrupt, the corruption decrease there will be of use.
If in the proces the core goes to 50-60% corrupt as well, it is very marginal and the corruption probably needs to be lower.

Edit: I am now gonna do some research about communism vs monarchy.
brb with more on it soon. (within those 9 hours for sure)
 
Ok, I better explain my thoughts about govs again and make it understandable.

Communism is great as Offa said, you get half of everything in every town, roughly. Whip citizens for stuff, gold is useless.

Monarchy, well no need to explain that, if you ever tried to conquer a pangea before. Buy stuff for gold!!! And in Monarchy we can use the specialists as what Wacken proposed.
 
Please, i am not convinced could this first be done in a test game with similar empire ?

It is of absolutely no use at all to decrease corruption with less than 40% in the ICS towns.

Only if the ICS towns get 50-60% or less corrupt, the corruption decrease there will be of use.
If in the proces the core goes to 50-60% corrupt as well, it is very marginal and the corruption probably needs to be lower.
Click to expand...

Get over it, mate. The game is over, it's just for us to defend what we need to defend and Gandhi to build that darn rocket.

Monarchy is fine, we just change all scientist to taxmen, police or engineers whatever we see fit. I'd say taxmen only with Mon, just rush what we can and we already have enough.
 
Well, this isn't the time for you to make a trial game, you lunatic! :lol: And really, if we waste time on "testing", it won't do us any good.

Just because I said so. :D

No, come on and go with me here. Monarchy is "almost' Republic and so much less hassle with WW and stuff. We really don't need more.
 
Using the thread from the war academy:
http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3/strategy/corruption_c3c.php

Distance corruption:
MaxD = (MapW+MapH)/4
MaxD = (100+100)/4 = 50
d = (MaxD) / 4 = 12.5
da = 0.5^Ni * min(Gd * t * d, MaxD)
da = 0.5^0 * min(1*1*12.5, 50)
da = 12.5
Cd = da /MaxD

Cd = 12.5/50
Cd = 1/4

Rank curruption:
rank = half number of total cities. 111 cities so rank = 55.

Nopt = max(OCN * (L/100 + c + Gr + Gp*Nwe + 0.25*Ni), 1)
Nopt = ~OCN * (3 + Nwe*3)

Cr = R / (2 * Nopt),
Cr = 55/ (OCN (3 + Nwe*3)

OCN i do not know. I guess 12.
Nwe - number of corruption reducing buildings, FP and that other thingy.
having both and assuming OCN 12 makes
Cr = 1/2 (55/108, but i used more approximates anyway)

Would make corruption 75% in each city if we have both buildings.
 
The simple fact is, that we don't CARE about corruption anymore. We just get what we can get with our economy?

We don't really need that much to survive any Indian assaults, we just have to sit back annd build the occasional unit. We don't even have to improve our new core much, a market here an aqueduct there.

Look at the broader scene, we can rush that stuff with gold! :eek:

It's just a viewing game from now on. With some small precautions.
 
I think you are quite optimistic. If it really is gonna take 100 turns before they build that space ship, we are certainly have to fight.

Now go ahead and make that monarchy :) You can be king Gozpel !
 
:lol:

I will come back in the morning as I said. If anyone have objections about Monarchy, we talk about Commie.

But if noone complained when I get back, I go Monarchy. Will be 9 turns of fun. Hmm, better draft the **** out the nation before that.

So see, WOA, you agree (sullenly maybe) but this will turn out great! :)

And the only fight I'm "worried" about is nuclear. We just leave our units outside borders, no worries.

The medications are kicking in, I need a lay down.
 
And I rather have a Wacky King than myself. :)

Your advice is quite good. I'm just brave and fuzzy.
 
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