SGOTM7 - Team Chunky

[mad-bax]

SGOTM7 - Team Chunky

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I hope you enjoy the game

Map Parameters
Playable Civ - Ottomans
World size - 80 wide by 80 high. (Small)
Difficulty - Deity
Landform - Archepelago
Barbarians - Roaming

The map is handbuilt, and therefore may not have a standard configuration.

Please visit the following links to ensure that you are adequately prepared for this game. The SGOTM Reference thread contains all the files and links you need to install the small mod for PTW/C3C and rather larger mod for vanilla. There are test saves too so you can check your installation.

The GOTM Reference Thread.
SGOTM Reference Thread.
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Download Save from Server


This Months' sponsored variant is Always War Deity (AWD) the rules for which are as follows.

1. You must declare war on each Civilisation by the end of the turn you make that contact.
2. You must remain at war with each Civilisation until the end of the game, or until that Civilisation is destroyed.
3. You may trade with a Civilisation on the turn you make contact and before declaring war, but you may not establish any embassies.
4. No turn based (gpt) deals are permitted.
5. You must win by Domination.

Note: PTW and Vanilla players are not permitted to leader rush Great Wonders Before the year 1000BC for this game.

 

[Mach]

Checkin' in and gearin' up. Hullo, all.

 

[chunkymonkey]

Hello

I'm off to work today but I'll post my thoughts later. I'm a bit scared about this game but i'm looking forward to it.

 

[Mach]

Yeah, I'm scared too. But what the heck, right?

So how we gonna approach this game? The only thing I think of is to play a normal AW game, hunker down, 3-tile spacing, walls and cats. We should avoid contacts of civs on our island, but I think we want contacts with other islands, so we should send out boats to find them. Expect landings. We'll want both GL's...

This is my first SGOTM. Does anyone know if we're allowed to use CivAssist II? I just started using it, and it's pretty awesome. I looked through all the GOTM rules and I didn't see a ruling on utilities, but maybe I just missed it.

 

[chunkymonkey]

Hi Mach, i PM'ed the other guys so they should be along soon.

I was thinking pretty much the same as you in terms of strategy. I suppose it all depends on whether we do have a neighbour.

As I see it, in AWD, there is a large possibility of being killed within the first 80-100 turns just with one neighbour, so I doubt MB would have put 2 AI on our island, cos he wouldn't want all the teams losing so early. If I had to put money on it, i'd say we had one neighbour, who had a late UU, or no iron/horse, so they were numbed somehow. But I wouldn't like to barge straight in to find out.

I agree we should send boats out, but only after we have had our first encounter with our neighbour. We will only get one shot at trading techs with other civs, so we can't employ the same trading strategy by getting all contacts early. I think we will want to spread out contact times across the late AA - mid MA.

Hopefully, we will have a lot of resources and lux nearby to help out. I think if we can defend until MilTrad then do a Sipahi rush on our neighbour, clearing our island, we will have won, since AI overseas invasions are lousy. Walls and catapults are a must. If the opportunity presents itself earlier with knights against a weak AI, then perhaps we should go for it but lets see how the game pans out.

Obviously depends on terrain, but i'm all for a cxxc build, its nice to get troops from town to town in one turn.

I have to confess I am a Deity virgin, so can anybody tell me whether self-building the Great Library would be feasible, or useful? I don't usually build it, but I fear AWD AIs may run away from us. Also, what are the chances of getting to Philosophy first - considering we don't even start with Alphabet?

And about CivAssist 2, i think we should be able to use it (Civassist 1 is allowed), but remember its still a little buggy, so we shouldn't rely on it too heavily (I'll be using MapStat too), and there may be some spoiler info still inside. I'll ask in the maintenance thread. It would be cool if we could use it its very pretty.

Can't think of anything else at the moment, i'll be back later. It will be easier to discuss stuff once the save is up and we know our potential enemies.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I'm hoping there's another food bonus under that fog, cos we would have a quickly setup settler factory right there. I like settler factories!

 

[Khan_Asparuh]

Khan reporting for duty.
Re Philosophy, not even worth considering. The AI will beat us to it certainly.
If we have a good second city site, GL may be doable but chances are low. I think that even if we have a settler factory, it'll be usefull only for a few time. And we must push on units.
I guess we're alone on an island.
A question to the team. Do we want early contacts to cheapen techs (an insurance in case we lose the GL run), or we try to stay isolated for a while?

 

[Mach]

Another food bonus sure would be nice. I see we won't be sharing those sheep with another city. We gonna build a granary? A suggestion: maybe the first player that goes can found our city, post a pic, and we can discuss our initial moves in detail?

I like your idea of spreading the contacts out, we should do that, but I think we need to start before we/they get Map Making. By the late AA the ai's will have met each other and traded techs around, and we'll have little to nothing to give for their techs. If we wait too long, our late Ancient will be their mid Midieval...

Our curraghs are nice and slow, and we don't start with alpha, so we can't possibly meet them too quickly.

Philo is actually possible, I think...if this is a well-spaced archi. It is a long shot, but it might be worth a try, since we gain a lot if we get it. I think we'll figure this out when the time comes.

Alphabet first? Or pottery? Hm...

 

[Baalzebul]

Hello to everybody. I' m ready for the orders.

My English might be a little poor but I think we can still work it out.

First of all I' m good at emperor level but never played a Deity game and it' s my first SGOTM. So it' ll be tough.

I'm at work now so I'll report back as soon as possible.

 

[Khan_Asparuh]

Well even with the Dutch that I consider the best civ for Philosophy slingshot I've never made it on Deity. We can try if you want to, but I just want to mention that if we go for Alpha Writing Philosophy we won't have any other unit than warriors for the first 100 turns or so. This could be our death...
I simply hope there's no other civ on the continent, otherways it's not even worth playing. Our chances are looooooooooooow.
Research path: Pottery, BW, WC imo.
EDIT: I see no roster so far, and the save is available, so I may allow myself to post the starting situation pic.

 

[Khan_Asparuh]

We do have a lovely 4 turn settler factory at pop 4-6 and 4 turn settler-warrior at pop 5-7. I think pottery as starting tech is no longer to be questionned.

EDIT: I think I'm right, the staff has done everything possible (as they mentionned it in the game presentation) for this difficult variant to be doable by less that SID+++ players. I presume that we're alone on a nice island, the AIs are very spaced from each other, we have all the ressources we need and the settler factory to claim them. I guess that we're separated by the AI by ocean, so I definitely vote for some exploring suicidal curraghs. After pottery and BW or WC, Alphabet IMO.

 

[chunkymonkey]

I would absolutely agree KA. After seeing that shot, the 5-7 factory is just too tempting, although this should be altered to 4-6 factory once warriors become useless.

After some consideration, I also think that we are probably alone. One false move could result in our death, and there are teams with Regent players out there... so I would assume we have a generous location.

However, I see the Vikings are playing. I'm not too keen on meeting them in a hurry. As soon as they get Astronomy or the Lighthouse we could have a problem.

We already have BW, so lets go for pottery, then WC. After this we can go towards Literature and hopefully time a GLib prebuild in our second or third city. Unless you don't think the Library is a good idea Khan? You and Conan are the only self-confessed Deity players on this team, so i expect to be learning lots from you two!

Everyone remember we are industrious so use this to our advantage. As for first worker moves, i would say irrigate and road all sheep. Then mine our BGs. I say road the first sheep before irrigate, since this should give us growth in 8 turns with no food wastage (and 2 extra commerce) as opposed 8 turns with two food wastage (assuming I'm thinking straight).

With +3spt for the first 8 turns we are going to be wasting something at the end of this build. So should it be a 4turn warrior with two waste, or a 7 turn spear with 1 waste? We need an explorer to scout out the immediate vicinity for a decent spot for our second city. Hopefully it will be close by and resourceful.

Here's a preliminary roster. As you started Khan, would you like to continue (do you want to play 20 or 10 turns) and get us off to a good start? If you fancy waiting until tomorrow until we've had some feedback from everyone that would probably be a good idea.

If anybody wants to swap around that's cool, lets just try and keep the flow going with this game. We should instate the 24/72hr rule, but if anybody needs more time whilst they're playing, just say. It's important that you take your time over your turns and don't rush them.

Roster
Khan_Asparuh - playing
ConanConQ - on deck
Chunkymonkey
Mach
Baalzebul

I propose that if anything interesting happens during anyone's turns i.e. meeting a new contact, losing out on a wonder race etc... then they take a rest for a brief reflection with the team. Does this sound OK? Obviously things are less important further into the game, but the first 100 turns are going to be what makes this game.

EDIT: Recommend that everyone uses MapStat or similar for monitoring happiness. Also i've been using CivAssist II for the past week and it is brilliant for helping with MMing. I will be playing with both of these running in the background at all times, i suggest everyone else does.

 

[Baalzebul]

I think you' re right. First we must go for pottery but one thing we have BW so we don' t need to research that. First we must build a few warriors (at least one to defend our capital, one to search around) and after seeing the map we can choose our research path. I think we must not research philosopy but go directly to literature.

 

[Khan_Asparuh]

He-he, I just love selfconfessing Deity player... And the world believes me.
Actually I am... I've won a game or two on Deity, but I've played only a few games as it's too time consuming, and that's why I've declared Demi God in the sign up thread.
Whatever. If the team agrees I'll go for the 10 opening turns. Be right back...

 

[Khan_Asparuh]

I see you're arround guys. I've 5 turns done so far. The Zulus are in the North (we have our first war), I don't know if this is another island.
I got Pottery and WC before the war declaration. This was to keep you informed of the situation.
I saw that another team had submitted a 3000BC save (hadn't spied, it was shown in the table), so will probably go for 20 turns. See you later.

 

[Baalzebul]

You can play the first 10 or 20 rounds it' s ok to me.

By the way nice avatar. Up the irons.

 

[chunkymonkey]

Cool, i'm glad we got the those techs out of them. I really hope they're on another island, don't really want Impi running around all over the place - they are extremely annoying.

20 turns is cool with me.

 

[Khan_Asparuh]

SGOTM7 4000BC
(0)
Checking every tile value, I’m not used to the GOTM Ressources.
Settle in place. The worker will irrigate and road the eastern sheep tile.
Warrior ordered. I’ll MM to get it in 4 turns, using the river BG on the last two for commerce. (3-3-2-2).
Research set on Pottery. 22 turns at max science (3bpt). Will go down soon.
I see that Chunky has already checked the opponents, I guess this is OK for the SGOTM, here they are: India, Zulu, Arabia, Persia, Scandinavia and America. Small world with 7 civs. The Vikings and Indians start with Alphabet, we have a few chances on Philosophy. Must go directly on Litterature
(1)
Start irrigating the sheep. Roading first is not that profitable.
(2)
Reassign tiles, Pottery in 15, warrior in 2.
(3)
Declare war to… The Advisor says we know not the other civs. Too bad. I was in a wary mood.
(4)
Warrior goes for scouting tasks. Sheep irrigated, growth in 4 without waste. There will be a shield waste, but I don’t see a way to avoid it. Passed 15 minutes calculating and found no solution. We’ll waste 4 shield whatever we do so I’ll go for another 2 warriors and either rax or granary prebuild.
(5)
I was wrong about AI’s position. Yellow warrior shows up on the other island (I hope) in the North. The Zulus are Polite, but it won’t last. Trade Masonry and BW for Pottery, WC and 35g. Declare WAR on Zululand
Researching Alphabet in 50 for now.
(6)
Road done. Worker to the other sheep tile. Our exploring warrior sees the end of the Zulu island. GoooooooooooooD TM. The road lowers research on Alpha to 41 turns.
(7)
Irrigating and exploring.
(8)
Growth and wasty warrior built. I’ll go for a granary (12 turns, but with growth on the 6th it will give it in 10). Wasty stays for MP.
We’ll waste food for the next growth. Explorer sees GH. Will not pop it.
(9)
Big thank you to the staff. We have spices nearby for a nice lunch and incense for the afternoon relaxation.
(10)
Cultural expansion, the second sheep is in reach. There’s a strange beast on a hill near it; actually it’s olives, but it looks like some kind of a spider. Irrigation finished, will road now. Working the river sheep while the irrigated are being roaded. Will waste 1 food on growth in 4 turns.
(11)
Damn, now on that island there’s an Indian warrior. They have Alpha and CB, plus all we know. Our 45g is offending them for any tech. Just to offend them some more, I declare WAR on India. At least Alpha research time is down to 23 turns. We have FP in the SW, great lands as expected.
(12)
Road done, will road BG to reach the last sheep. Goats all around. Growth in 2. Another GH.
(13)
Not Much.
(14)
Lux up to 10%. Granary due in 4 turns (7spt for 28 left). Growth in 5 turns at 4 fpt. I must say that this precision is not my fault, hadn’t seen it exactly like this. My calculations were a bit wrong, I thought we’ll waste shields.
(15)
Worker on Sheep. Exploring the west.
(16)
Zulus building Colossus. As long as it’s not TGLighthouse I don’t care.
We’ll be at 5 fpt in 3 turns. With 4 pop this is already a 4 turns settler factory.
(17)
Barb warrior near our explorer. These will be our worst enemy. Moving on the Mountain (hope he’ll attack), I see the camp.
(18)
Granary – Settler, the regular 4-6 factory is ready, needs only a warrior- worker build, but we need a second city.
The barb didn’t attack. Warrior moves next to his camp.
(19)
Roading irrigated sheep. Lux goes up to 30%. Attack barb camp and lose flawlessly. We must get rid of this camp.
MM Istanbul. Watch out, the governer sets the worker on growth on the forest and we need him on the river BG.
(20)
Settler in 2 growth in 1.

Thoughts: The next player must set up the lux on his first turn because I-bul-bul will riot on growth.
I wanted a fast settler for TGL prebuild. Now you can gamble a bit with warriors and workers to set up the combo factory. The regular 4 turns is almost online, we need to get at 4 pop with no shields or food in the box. We need to mine and road 2 bgs for the combo.

 

[Khan_Asparuh]

Thanks Baalzebul, I was sure that Lord Of The Flies isn't there for nothing.
By the way, we would have been neighbors if I was home. I'm Bulgarian.

 

[Mach]

Looks good and solid, Khan. I love the exploration you did; it was worth the warrior. I agree with beelining to lit. Also, I suggest we think hard about the next turnset. We have good land for a defensive ring around Istanbul. Anybody want to try a dotmap? We'll have to figure out where we're gonna attempt wonders, where we're gonna build units, and what our settling priorities are. I'd volunteer, but I'm here at work for the next 10 hrs...

Also we want units badly. I haven't looked closely, but are there other cycles we can set up in our capital? Like spear --> worker --> settler (6 turns), or something? I think I'd be happy slowing down our settler creation if we can get better units out.

 

[Khan_Asparuh]

Don't forget the upgrade path of the warrior, Mach. I don't mind building cheap warriors to become MDI later, but we must get a barracks in Istanbul;
Also, another worker must come out quite fast to mine the roaded river BG, while the initial heads for the other.
Will try to DMap.
EDIT: These turns show the first possibility of the game of the RNG. I wonder if there's a team who have met India and Zulu just after they have met each other. This will certainly give this team a huge tech advance. Will check this when it becomes allowed.
EDIT2: A dotmap. I think of the Red Spot as a TGL city, that may even get the sheep of Istanbul if we go for a 6 turns settler-warrior-spear/archer factory there. This will give us a good chance to effectively get TGL. The blue dots are the next cities and the green will become a worker factory one day and will probably build only workers until the end of the game.
EDIT3: ConanConQ is the only one that hasn't checked in yet. I think that we can redo the roster to put him in the back...