SGOTM7 - Team Peanut

[mad-bax]

SGOTM7 - Team Peanut

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I hope you enjoy the game

Map Parameters
Playable Civ - Ottomans
World size - 80 wide by 80 high. (Small)
Difficulty - Deity
Landform - Archepelago
Barbarians - Roaming

The map is handbuilt, and therefore may not have a standard configuration.

Please visit the following links to ensure that you are adequately prepared for this game. The SGOTM Reference thread contains all the files and links you need to install the small mod for PTW/C3C and rather larger mod for vanilla. There are test saves too so you can check your installation.

The GOTM Reference Thread.
SGOTM Reference Thread.
Upload Save to Server
Download Save from Server


This Months' sponsored variant is Always War Deity (AWD) the rules for which are as follows.

1. You must declare war on each Civilisation by the end of the turn you make that contact.
2. You must remain at war with each Civilisation until the end of the game, or until that Civilisation is destroyed.
3. You may trade with a Civilisation on the turn you make contact and before declaring war, but you may not establish any embassies.
4. No turn based (gpt) deals are permitted.
5. You must win by Domination.

Note: PTW and Vanilla players are not permitted to leader rush Great Wonders Before the year 1000BC for this game.

 

[civ_steve]

I just noticed this was up. so civ_steve checking in! Strap on your seat belts; I suspect this ride will be exciting and tense!

Looks like we have 5 returning members and 1 new one. Welcome Crazy Eskimo! Peanut gives a good overview of how we operate as a team; in a 'nutshell' - post a "got-it" within 24 hours of the prior turn's conclusion, and play within 48 hours after that. !st player to play usually does 20 turns, and then everyone does 10 turns per set after that; however, if you're in the middle of something complicated you might play over a few turns to finish it, and if you're out of time or just beat up, you can play fewer turns as well. Be sure to use the link in the first post to upload your save to the server. Very important - post a fairly detailed log of your turns so that everyone knows what happened. Add pictures as appropriate, and include a link to the saved game from the server.

MailMan does a great job of setting up optimized orders. So let's review our locations. I'm on the US West coast, so gmt -8 (I believe)

I will be out on a trip starting early Monday (the 16th) and back late on Thursday (the 19th). I might be able to play first thing on the 16th, or on the 20th when I return; this should effect the starting point in our rotation.

This game is archipelago. There's a good chance we are completely alone on our land mass. The Ottomans start out with Masonry and Bronze-Working (unless there's been a mod). Since this is Deity, we should beeline to Map-Making as quickly as possible, so I'd suggest starting out with Pottery. After we've done some scouting, we'll know if we are truely alone and we can decide at that point whether we continue to Map-Making (Alphabet, Writing, Map-making), or if we're not alone, what initial trades are available to us and who we have to declare on.

Final government is obviously Monarchy (unless we want to stay in Despotism).

Starting location looks reasonable. Should get 2 more food once the sheep are irrigated, or we can mine them for more shields with our industrious workers. (Fast growth is more important.) There's a BG as well, and some river spaces for extra commerce.

 

[Crazy Eskimo]

Thanks, civ_steve! Hello everyone.

I am also on the West Coast (Los Angeles to be exact). I can generally check the civ forums during my lunch time and play in the evening. No major out-of-town/no-access-to-computer times that I am aware of. I dunno where you want to stick me in the order, but I'm good with whatever.

Also, just to be sure we're all on the same page (or rather, I'm on your page), if I have all the PTW patches, I should be good, right? Or are there other mods/packs that I should download before Monday?

Again, looking forward to having a lot of fun with you guys. If you notice I seem to be doing something you'd like to correct, feel free to make any comments you want about my playstyle. I'm looking forward to learning from you guys and definitely won't take it personally.

 

[Kaiser_Berger]

Howdy all, time to rumble yet again

Grettings Crazy Eskimo, or CE as I'm sure it will be abreviated before long, like KB for myself or CS for civ_steve. I'm sure you'll find us to be an enjoyable group who is very capable of getting the job done.

I agree on the comments about how we start. We'll want a spear right away I'd imagine, as if we're not alone we'll be very busy very quickly. If we are alone getting to Map Making seems the logical choice, as at that point we'll want some contacts to lower our research costs. We'll also want to make a run for the Great Library. With a decent prebuild, we should stand a fairly good chance of snaring it.

 

[civ_steve]

If we're alone, we'll want Map-Making as soon as possible. If we have company, we'll probably want Iron-Working pretty quick. I totally agree with KB about the Great Library; since the AI usually researches Literature first, and at Deity level they build Wonders quickly, they probably wont have a pre-build going to cascade to Great Lib, so we should have a good shot at it.

I disagree about the Spearman, though. If we have company, and are in an early war, maybe, although the AI is likely to just steamroll us at that point. Later on, warriors upgraded to Swordsmen are much more useful IMO. We can build twice as many (10 shields per Warrior vs 20 for Spearman), and if we get the Great Library, Gold for upgrades will not be an issue.

And if we're following the same guidelines as SGOTM3, contact occurs when we enter diplomacy (through our choice or the AI's). Just because you see a scout or warrior wandering around does not mean you've made contact. In fact, DON'T OPEN DIPLOMACY. Not until there's something to trade with, and you're ready to declare war.

(Edit- I see this point is being questioned in the maintenance thread. mad-bax seems to be changing the definition of contact than what we had in SGOTM3. We'll have to see what the final ruling is.)

 

[MailMan]

Hi All,

I am back.
I think the previous roster should work for SGOTM7 as well (CE replaces KL)

The roster:
civ_steve
Peanut
Mathilda
Kaiser_Berger
MailMan
Crazy Eskimo

(The start point of the roster is fluid)

I suggest that the first one that shout "got it" will start the roster.

Some early thoughts:
- Settle in place

- worker to irrigate on of the sheep. if I get it correctly they give extra 2 food and 1 shield bonus. making base 3f2s, dispo 2f2s so irrigating them is the only option to use in dispo to get them back to 3f2s (beside that food is much more impotant)

- research. beeline to MM as civ-steve suggested, Lit strait afterward (hopfully we should have Mas and prebuild by then)

- after MM we should try to make contacts as quick as possible with off-shore nations to get them in war mood.

- build order: 2 warriors for MP (no scouting), granery, defence if needed, settler.

 

[mad-bax]

The rules for SGOTM3 were too complicated and got me into trouble. I decided that it was easiest to use the standard AW rules.

 

[civ_steve]

I've not played by AW rules. Where are the 'standard' rules listed?

CE - check the SGOTM reference thread (linked in post 1) to see what you need to download to get set up for play.

 

[mad-bax]

I'll find a link to Arathorns Thread and post it shortly.

 

[Peanut]

Welcome back, fellow Peanuts. A special welcome to Crazy Eskimo (mind if we call you CE ?) and congratulations to you on being promoted (?) to nutty status.

Here's my understanding of where we all are on this lovely planet of ours :

civ_steve: Santa Clara (?), California, USA GMT-8
Peanut: Brisbane, Australia GMT+10
Mathilda: Helsinki, Finland GMT+2
Kaiser_Berger: Wisconsin, USA GMT-6
MailMan: Israel GMT+2
Crazy Eskimo: LA, California, GMT-8

... a nice, international mixture.

CS summed up things nicely in his post but here's my standard line ... (heavily cribbed from earlier SGOTM posts)

We run this team as a sort of chaotic democracy, with anybody feeling impatient welcome to crack the whip to keep things moving. We are called Team Peanut through an accident of history. I am the ship's figurehead who the others sometimes allow to climb down and take the wheel - that's when we sometimes end up in uncharted and unexpected waters or maybe even on the rocks.

Our rules are simple and are something like this (and please suggest changes if you disagree) :-

• All criticisms are to be constructive and all ideas (however nutty) are welcome. We like to hear all opinions, even the loopiest ideas, because sometimes they can be the best ones.
• Whoever is up is THE BOSS for that round. Whatever they decide is what happens. Only one captain in the chair at a time.
• Post a "got-it" within 24 hours of the last player posting results. Then please play and post in 48 hours. Otherwise the next player can post a "got-it" and proceed.
• If you cannot play in time then please post a "pass this round" as soon as possible, or give advance warning. We can rearrange the roster if needed.
• Most importantly - have fun playing, and remember it's only a game after all !

In summary - our expectation is that all will contribute their ideas, we constructively criticise and support eachother (so that we all learn), and that whoever is up makes the decisions that round. And have fun.

Some thoughts about this game :
This game is going to very difficult (at least for poor old me, I'm sure the rest of you civ-wizards will coast smoothly through). I agree on CS's start plan, and if we are alone on an island (and I really really hope so) then go for MM via Pottery as fast as we can. Growth is vital. The GLib will be very useful. Any thoughts anyone on the Lighthouse - an archepelago means lots of sailing ... the owner may be a good early target.

If we are not alone on an island then unless we have some luck we are going to be peanut paste in short order I suspect ...

How about you start CS ? Your plan seems OK to me. Then the roster from MM looks fine. The first few rounds go pretty quickly anyway.

 

[civ_steve]

I'll try to play Monday morning. If we're NOT alone, we could be in trouble fast! With the new contact rules (must Declare War as soon as you can possibly seem someone in your F4 window), we'd be at war as soon as we met someone else's unit! Like MailMan said, keep the MP's at home, and only scout enough to find the next city site.

 

[Kaiser_Berger]

Another point that we should adress is getting Mathematics for Catapults. If we have company, we will need them to help establish a better kill ratio. If we're alone, I don't think we'll need them as urgently, as we know how inept the AI is with their landings. It's something we'll have to consider after we know more about our surroundings.

 

[civ_steve]

Starting Saves are up! I've downloaded Team Peanut's ... and didn't see the special resources. So this is a warning: go to post 3 of SGOTM Reference thread, and follow the directions under the "SGOTM Setup for ALL PTW Players" paragraph. I unzipped the folder from the link labeled >>THIS<<, reloaded the game, and I can now see the special resources.

Our starting space is on the river. Neither sheep space is, but they start off at 2 food, 2 shields, so they are the spaces to use initially, and it only makes sense to Road and Irrigate them; mining will not see an extra shield.

Eventually we should like a 2nd city that can share at least one of these Sheep spaces; the capital will be wasting a lot of food. With a granary we have at best a 6 turn settler factory (unless something else is revealed), so shields are not a problem.

Here is the F10 screen showing our opponents for this game:

One thing interesting - I think I count 4 Expansionistic civs, who start with Pottery. Only 1 Commercial civ - India. Persia, our clone, is also in the game. I'm still betting (hoping) for an isolated start, so I'd still be inclined to research Pottery first; if anyone feels strongly otherwise, please say so. Oh, if we do have neighbors, this puts more importance on getting Iron-Working fast I would think; in this situation I'd be inclined not to trade Bronze-Working unless it got us an important Tech; this would help us keep Iron-Working from our neighbor for longer I'd think.

I'll try to play some turns in the morning; please post any other thoughts or suggestions.

 

[MailMan]

in this situation I'd be inclined not to trade Bronze-Working unless it got us an important Tech

Bronze working is usually the #1 priority for the AI research. There is a very good chance that any AI civ that will meet already got it or researching it.
Therefore if we can trade it we should do so (the AI will soon get it itself and we might still get something for it.)

I seconds on the pottery research. since we will not go exploring until MM, we should get pottery ASAP.

 

[Kaiser_Berger]

Pottery sounds like a logical choice.

 

[civ_steve]

Turn 0, 4000 BC
Found Sogut on the starting spot. We have a 3rd Sheep! 4 Turn Settlers are possible!
Need 4 turns for first Warrior anyway, so place citizen on BG to get extra commerce for two turns.
Start on Pottery at 100%; 20 turns it says.
Worker NE

Turn 1, 3950 BC
Worker Irrigate Sheep

Turn 2, 3900 BC
With 4 shields in Production, shift citizen to Sheep that Worker is Irrigating.

Turn 3, 3850 BC
Irrigation finished, start roading.

Turn 4, 3800 BC
Warrior finished; next Warrior.
A Zulu Warrior is visible across the Strait! I see him in F4! (Rats!)
Trade BrzWorking and Masonry for Pottery, Warrior Code and his 10 Gold.
Didn't like his attitude - Declare War (Yikes!)
Send warrior to South East to scout out defensible terrain; hopefully he's not connected!
Start on Wheel at 100%

Turn 5, 3750 BC
Warrior East (looks like we are separate)
Worker finish Roading - NE to Sheep 2

Turn 6, 3700 BC
Warrior East - our land head south (Whew, we're not connected)
Worker Irrigate Sheep2

Turn 7, 3650 BC
Warrior South - let's scout our perimeter

Turn 8, 3600 BC
Sogut grows to size2
Warrior2 is finished - another Warrior
Warrior2 assumes MP duty
Worker finish Irrigate - road Sheep 2
Warrior1 South - a Goody Hut

Turn 9, 3550 BC
Warrior1 East to Coast - I see a hint of Yellow culture, probably Zulu; they might still be connected.
An Indian Warrior comes into view to West across that strait.
Open Diplomacy - trade BrzWorking, Masonry and Warrior Code for Alphabet, Ceremonial Burial and his 10 Gold.
What is this stuff? Curry? My mouth is burning! Declare War! (What are WE THINKING!)

Turn 10, 3500 BC
Warrior 3 finished (MP#2); begin on Granary, ready to switch to something else if necessary.
Worker fin Road, heads off to Sheep3
Culture expands
Warrior1 South

Turn 11, 3450 BC
Barb shows up to South; Warrior 3 send to protect worker
Warrior1 S; we are still an island; see hint of another culture to East (purplish)
Also see Spice in this area

Turn 12, 3400 BC
Worker starts Irrigation of Sheep3
Warrior3 reaches Worker
Warrior1 West (another spice, and a river)

Turn 13, 3350 BC
Sogut is size3; set Luxuries to 10%
Barb heads East towards Warrior1
Warrior 1 NW, adj to Barb warrior, sees Barb camp
Warrior 1 is on hill, good defensive terrain if the Barb attacks
Incense is seen to South of our culture

(IBT Barb attacks and dies
Zulu building Pyramids)

Turn 14, 3300 BC
Warrior1 NW to Mountain to heal
Warrior 3 returns to Sogut
Worker fin Irrigation of Sheep3, starts Roading

Turn 15, 3250 BC
Warrior1 heals
Warrior3 is MP#2 again; Luxuries to 0

Turn 16, 3200 BC
Warrior1 West to hill adjacent to Barb camp
Worker fin Road, North to BG

Turn 17, 3150 BC
Sogut is size4, set Lux to 10% again
Worker starts Mining BG
Warrior1 West, sees Floodplains, with Wheat

(IBT another Barb to West)

Turn 18, 3100 BC
Warrior1 NW to Hill for scouting

Turn 19, 3050 BC
Sogut fin Granary, beg on Settler
Warrior 1 West to Mountains, sees Goody Hut2

Turn 20, 3000 BC
Warrior1 SW, Goody Hut2 gives Maps
Warrior fin Mining, beg Roading BG

End of Turnlog

Here's our local terrain:

There's still a Goody Hut to SE.
At War with 2 civs, hope neither is adjacent.
Got 11 turns to go on Wheel; I started on Wheel because I'm not sure if we're isolated yet (feeling like we are, though), and we'd gotten all the other first tier Techs so quickly that I felt we were a little underpowered to go for Writing or IronWorking yet.
Over to you Peanut!

Here's the 3000 BC Save.

 

[Crazy Eskimo]

Thanks for the warm welcome, everybody! And yes, CE is definitely fine. Shirley is not. Also thanks for the various heads up on integrating into the team.

As for gameplay:

1) I see the post with mod-files. Will definitely make sure I'm up to speed when my turn rolls around. I'll probably try to load CS's save, just to be sure that I have everything in order (unless there's some mechanism that makes that a bad thing).

2) What sort of city pack are we going for? All the AW threads I've have read have gone for ICS, so I'm assuming that's what we'll be doing? Does anyone want to take a stab at posting a dotmap for potential future city sites. I can try to make one later, though it'd probably more to start the discussion than a final draft.

3) I'm not sure how I feel about going for the Wheel (literally, i'm undecided, not in a disapproving way). On one hand, I feel like, since it is an island map, we should have stuck to our plan of going for Map Making. The Wheel is something we could easily pop from a goodie hut or trade from another civ. On the other hand, my current single player game was supposedly an island map, but ended up with all by my civ and two others on islands, while everyone else was on one "big island". That... drastically changed how the game was being played. Given how shallow the straits are, we could easily be on that type of land mass and have the zulus and the indians just around the bend. In which case, MapMaking drops significantly in importance. Time will tell.

 

[Kaiser_Berger]

As far as city placing goes, AW games generally have accepted the CxxC style of placement. Essentially, when a city is placed it must be close enough to another city so that slow units can transfer back and forth in 1 turn to help reinforce things. I think that will be logical here as well, but it is certainly not something that must be rigidly adhered to. If we need to settle a bit further out for a resource, then I think we should.

 

[Mathilda]

Hi guys and Welcome to the nutty bunch CE!
CE - I'm sorry I don't get the reference to Shirley

Three spaces due south looks like a juicy place for a second city. Or is that being too greedy? I would presumme the second city would start with barracks and then concentrate on warriors.
Maybe anohter worker from the capital soon after the settler?

Noted that the limit for using great leaders for great wonders is 1000BC, not 500BC as I thought it was going to be. So should be possible to get it with a great leader. Yes I'm expecting to have one by 1000BC even if we are by ourselves.

About the opposition, the rest is fine, but Vikings
Have to take care with defence in coastal cities.

Well done CS for getting us started.
And good luck Peanut.

 

[Kaiser_Berger]

Actually, I was just looking, and 2S one SE looks like a splendid city loaction that adheres to the AW city placement guidlines.