SGOTM8 - klarius

[Ronald]

OK, done.
Currently Washington is at 42 spt. A coal plant takes 4 turns to build, ToE 15 turns. I think we should start ToE straight away with a Universal Suffrage prebuild. During the build time we can research 3 techs at 5 turns each. They should be Electricity, Sci-Method and Refining. Bonus techs will be Combustion and Flight. It doesn't matter though which of the three I research first, I will start with Electricity.

You should start with coal plant. The improved production will more than make up for the lost 4 turns. See klarius's post on the same subject

 

[Ciceronian]

I see. I will do a coal plant first then. I've already played 2 turns and uploaded, I'll continue later. Needed a break.

 

[Megalou]

Looking at the terrtiory graph in the Progress and Results page, my guess is that Team Wacken discovered Flight in or just after 950 AD. That's where their territory curve starts rocketing. It would be strange if it's not because of airports.

So, if anyone ever doubted it, we're up against stiff competition.

 

[Ronald]

Looking at the terrtiory graph in the Progress and Results page, my guess is that Team Wacken discovered Flight in or just after 950 AD. That's where their territory curve starts rocketing. It would be strange if it's not because of airports.

So, if anyone ever doubted it, we're up against stiff competition.

I am not so sure about flight. Their culture graph is lower than ours and their territory in 1050 is lower than ours at the moment. I think they only eliminated China and Greece from the home continent and got some overseas cities.
Nevertheless they are a very good team and competition will be fierce not only with them but also CDZ and chunky are doing quite well.

 

[Ciceronian]

We are far ahead in culture, and hence probably science, since our cultural buildings are mostly libs and unis. So we should reach Flight first out of all the teams and have the biggest chances of winning.

 

[klarius]

During the build time we can research 3 techs at 5 turns each.

The techs have different values and by that require different times. Electricity may need 5 (or is 4 possible ? ). Sci method will work in 4 with no problems. Refining will need 6 (or maybe 5 possible ? ).
There are also some options to increase shields in Washington at the cost of decreased shields in other cities.
So the timing is not quite as straight forward .

And also watch out for pollution. There should always be enough workers to deal with pollution eventually. This means railroad crews should work together to finish a segment every turn, so they are available the next turn if needed.

@Megalou
I would say, they have discovered it some turns before. It takes some time to set everything up and transport troops.
The increase (probably 12-14 towns) looks like a well prepared attack.

Edit:
Well quite some crossposting.
Don't expect that we are far ahead in science. We had some libraries earlier, but that doesn't tell much.
Wacken had much more population and workers early.

 

[Megalou]

I think we are ahead in territory because of the peace treaties, but Wacken's graph wasn't very low before 950, so I think they killed Greece earlier. Their next 10 turns will probably give the answer. If their graph continues to climb steadily they must have flight.

 

[Megalou]

Intermission

 

[Megalou]

I would say, they have discovered it some turns before. It takes some time to set everything up and transport troops.
The increase (probably 12-14 towns) looks like a well prepared attack.

Edit:
Well quite some crossposting.
Don't expect that we are far ahead in science. We had some libraries earlier, but that doesn't tell much.
Wacken had much more population and workers early.

It's getting speculative, but I think like us they had a town or two (but not as many) on at least one of the major continents, prebuilt airports in the core, and then sent anything from 8-20 cavalries to those hypothetical towns.

This can be done very quickly and I think that's how we should do it too. I rarely use airlifts in normal games but as I recall, a town with an airport can send only one unit, but receive innumerable units.

Something I'd like to know is if a town without an airport can receive units. Anyone?

 

[Ronald]

Something I'd like to know is if a town without an airport can receive units. Anyone?

I am no specialist with airports, I have hardly ever used one, but as far as I remember you need either an airport or an airfield to receive units.

 

[klarius]

You need an airport, or cheaper an airfield (uses up a worker) to receive arbitrary many units.
Also you need an airport or airfield to send 1 unit per turn.
So to send a lot of units you need lots of of airports/fields on the home island.
Units lose their movement when transported, so can only move the next turn.
For building airfields you should use useless land (can be outside culture boundary), because they replace mines or irrigations. Still the tiles should be roaded, airfields don't give automatic roads.

 

[Ronald]

You need an airport, or cheaper an airfield (uses up a worker) to receive arbitrary many units.
Also you need an airport or airfield to send 1 unit per turn.
So to send a lot of units you need lots of of airports/fields on the home island.

That is good news that we only need an airfield to send a unit. Since we have more than enough workers at that time, we can build as many airfields as neccessary send the units and irriagte the fields again. So our investment for operation airlift is very small and we can easily airlift 30+ cavs in 2 turns to the Roman continent, but we need to produce cavs in many of our core cities starting right now in order to have enough ready in 15 turns.

 

[Ciceronian]

The techs have different values and by that require different times. Electricity may need 5 (or is 4 possible ? ). Sci method will work in 4 with no problems. Refining will need 6 (or maybe 5 possible ? ).
There are also some options to increase shields in Washington at the cost of decreased shields in other cities.
So the timing is not quite as straight forward .

I am researching Electricity at 5 turns, but making 150 gpt. 4 turns wasn't possible. I checked that Refining took 6 turns, but with max research and extra scientists it would go in 5 turns, but not making too much money for stuff like rushing.
I've already started the war in Japan. It's a bit tougher than we thought, I will still rush a few cavs there if possible.

You need an airport, or cheaper an airfield (uses up a worker) to receive arbitrary many units.
Also you need an airport or airfield to send 1 unit per turn.
So to send a lot of units you need lots of of airports/fields on the home island.
Units lose their movement when transported, so can only move the next turn.
For building airfields you should use useless land (can be outside culture boundary), because they replace mines or irrigations. Still the tiles should be roaded, airfields don't give automatic roads.

Yes klarius, that's correct. I've used airports often in the past so I know how they work. So we need only one airport in the receiving area, but we would be well advised to build lots of airports in our core, around 10 perhaps. We should use prebuilds for them. Then transport all units in one turn and then warmonger the next.
EDIT: Ronald's solution with the airfields is probably better though, since they are free.

 

[Ronald]

.... we would be well advised to build lots of airports in our core, around 10 perhaps. We should use prebuilds for them. Then transport all units in one turn and then warmonger the next.

If it is correct that we can use airfields to send units, we don't need any airports and prebuilds in our scores, just build enough airfields the turn before we want to send the units. We need every productive city to build cavs.

 

[Ciceronian]

Yes, you're right Ronald, I already edited my post before you posted.

 

[Megalou]

There was an old GOTM decision that declared airfields unbalancing and disabled them, but that was in PTW. However, the civilopedia description of airfields does not say anything about airlifting i.e. moving units , only aircraft rebase:

"Airfields function in the same manner that a city with an airport would for air units [My italics]"

Seeing how you, Ciceronian, are familiar with Flight, I take it that airfields can receive land units in spite of this? It wouldn't be the first time the civilopedia is a bit unclear.

 

[klarius]

Well, Megalou, I tested the whole airfield stuff in a save I had around (COTM 13). We don't need airports, airfields do all the actions we need.
The only other effect of airports is producing veteran air units and I don't know what that should help for bombers.
BTW airports as well as airfields don't transport settlers or armies.

Airfields are disabled in GOTM PtW and also SGOTM PtW, because they cannot be added to vanilla.
In COTM and SGOTM C3C they are available.

 

[Megalou]

Thanks. I should have tested myself.

The original reason for the banning of airfields may indeed have been the vanilla/ptw discrepancy, but they were also deemed unbalancing by cracker.

Hey, wait a minute. Aren't we supposed to be sleeping?

 

[Megalou]

Ciceronian, some minor points:

1. Miami should work another mined mountain (the currently roaded one to the NW) and then work a flood plain instead of the olives. This will make it possible to get rid of the annoying specialist in New York.

2. I also think Houston should work sea tiles after the uni is done. That will also get rid of some specialists.

3. The cavalry in Cleveland seems to be dodging the war, playing golf with prime original sandwedges or something. On the other hand maybe he's waiting for backup.

OK, time for bed.

 

[Ronald]

For future turns, could we agree on normal SG times? (24 hours to get the game and 48 hours to play). I don't like slow games too much.

Thanks

Ronald