grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
yes, please play. Sorry for confusing the group again.
SGOTM8 - Wacken
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
WackenOpenAir
Deity
QSC is available.
Those who are paranoid about tech should not watch it
CDZ and Jeffelammar also lost the slingshot.
Klarius and Chunky made it.
Thats was a major bad luck incident i think as we did not research slowly towards philosophy. (or better said, good luck for them as it seems very few made the shot)
All the more credid for us when we win.
Those who are paranoid about tech should not watch it
CDZ and Jeffelammar also lost the slingshot.
Klarius and Chunky made it.
Thats was a major bad luck incident i think as we did not research slowly towards philosophy. (or better said, good luck for them as it seems very few made the shot)
All the more credid for us when we win.
WackenOpenAir
Deity
bottom of results page.
The population and workers look pretty good though
I simply cant understand what the other teams are doing with their food, do they eat it themselves ?
The population and workers look pretty good though
I simply cant understand what the other teams are doing with their food, do they eat it themselves ?
2 turns in: education. The romans still have a monopoly on invention and won't sell for less than wm, 118 gold (all of it) and 10gpt. This would mean we would have to reduce to 6 turn reseach for banking. Do we want to have this kind of trade? It doesn't look great to me, but could be right I guess, if Rome already has gunpowder.
WackenOpenAir
Deity
Do we have the oportunity to trade anything from other civs that we can add?
Maybe you can take that second gem and give em that if a worker is nearby ?
If none of that seems possible, i think we should do it. 300 gold for a tech is not that bad.
I assume you mean 2 turns in Banking, or have we gone backwards?
Maybe you can take that second gem and give em that if a worker is nearby ?
If none of that seems possible, i think we should do it. 300 gold for a tech is not that bad.
I assume you mean 2 turns in Banking, or have we gone backwards?
England will give 30 g for education. No one else has anything.
I haven't started on banking yet: we could get it in 5 at +7gpt if we don't ruin our economy by enriching the romans. Getting a worker to make a second gem colony is high on my todo list, but we had almost no workers left in the core. In fact we are pretty low on workers altogether.
Really the issue is: how long will it be before anyone else will get invention: idf we think it will be very quick then its price will go right down, and I could wait.
I think I might give the Romans a fair bit of gpt for invention if necessary: it will at least boost their research, even if it harms ours.
I of course always enjoy selling education to the civ with the Great Library.
I haven't started on banking yet: we could get it in 5 at +7gpt if we don't ruin our economy by enriching the romans. Getting a worker to make a second gem colony is high on my todo list, but we had almost no workers left in the core. In fact we are pretty low on workers altogether.
Really the issue is: how long will it be before anyone else will get invention: idf we think it will be very quick then its price will go right down, and I could wait.
I think I might give the Romans a fair bit of gpt for invention if necessary: it will at least boost their research, even if it harms ours.
I of course always enjoy selling education to the civ with the Great Library.
WackenOpenAir
Deity
ehm, we are using education to get Gunpowder right ?
Selling it will end the monopoly and halve its value. Thats not an option.
if you do it in 5 at +7 gpt and we pay -10 gpt, we are only 3 gpt short of 6 turn research. We sure should be able to find 3gpt somewhere:
-are there still warriors around that we can disband ?
-can we get a scientist anywhere without hurting ourselves ?
-will a library be ready in time to make up for the loss ?
-can we sell world maps to everyone ?
And, after making the trade, sell Education to anyone who gives a peny for it, do it immeadiately so that the Glib doesn't give it to them yet.
Selling it will end the monopoly and halve its value. Thats not an option.
if you do it in 5 at +7 gpt and we pay -10 gpt, we are only 3 gpt short of 6 turn research. We sure should be able to find 3gpt somewhere:
-are there still warriors around that we can disband ?
-can we get a scientist anywhere without hurting ourselves ?
-will a library be ready in time to make up for the loss ?
-can we sell world maps to everyone ?
And, after making the trade, sell Education to anyone who gives a peny for it, do it immeadiately so that the Glib doesn't give it to them yet.
WackenOpenAir said:
I suspect I could get banking in 5 anyway: eg pay Rome less cash, but more gpt, and then run deficit research.
England had 36 gold, japan 9 gold, the others are stony broke, so little help there. Some markets will come in later in my set, and I will get a colony on the gems so things will pick up.
I thought I was to sell education to get invention, then later sell banking to get gunpowder. There is no way too get gunpowder with education.
The main thing is I would like the romans (who have the Great Library) to get education ASAP, so they will switch to astronomy when they get gunpowder.
I fear gunpowder will be an expensive tech for us to buy and they won't come close to swapping it for banking.
edit: the min I can get rome down to is 16gpt, 10g and wm plus education for invention. That would let me research banking in 5. It is a lot, considering the others may well learn invention soon making it cheap, but I am beginning to think it is a deal worth making, as it makes rome more likely to go for astronomy after gunpowder.
I would do the trade...
My guess is Rome was researchng Education themsevles that is why they want so much for Invention.
And if i am correct and i think i am that would mean Rome does not have Gunpowder yet. But do the trade anyways. Rome will probably start research on Astronomy rather than GUnpowder.
We might want to give invention to each and every AI in hope someone else will research Gunpowder for us.
EDIT: Or if Rome doesn't have Gunpowder we can start researching GUnpowder ourselves in a gamble that Rome is researching Astronomy for us
EDIT: Sorry about the workers.. I was trying to boost our main core and joined all the extra workers to main cities. the second gem colony totally slipped out of my mind...
My guess is Rome was researchng Education themsevles that is why they want so much for Invention.
And if i am correct and i think i am that would mean Rome does not have Gunpowder yet. But do the trade anyways. Rome will probably start research on Astronomy rather than GUnpowder.
We might want to give invention to each and every AI in hope someone else will research Gunpowder for us.
EDIT: Or if Rome doesn't have Gunpowder we can start researching GUnpowder ourselves in a gamble that Rome is researching Astronomy for us
EDIT: Sorry about the workers.. I was trying to boost our main core and joined all the extra workers to main cities. the second gem colony totally slipped out of my mind...
WackenOpenAir
Deity
Offa said:
Yes, indeed, i was wrong here.
Also, yes gunpwdr may be too expensive, be sure to have gems ready for that trade then.
I am rather sure they are doing gunpowder and they will still do so whatever choises you give them. I think gunpowder is their biggest favorite after nationalism and invention in the whole game.
WackenOpenAir
Deity
them wanting 300 gold with the trade isn't so weird, it doesn't have to mean they are researching education.
I think it just means they are a strong emperor AI who don't like us and are not gonna give us very good deals. As usual....
I think it just means they are a strong emperor AI who don't like us and are not gonna give us very good deals. As usual....
WackenOpenAir said:
I sincerely hope you are right here and we get it for banking.
The only way to check for sure is wait another turn and if the ask even more GPT from us - they definetely research Education... but i wouldn't do it...
let's just do the trade now and hope you can read Ceasar's mind
WackenOpenAir
Deity
By the way, do not expect anyone else than Rome to research for us unless we give them 20 turns to do so.
Last time i checked, We and Rome had 55% world pop together. Leaves 45% to share between the remainders. They are nothing.
Edit: Correction 60%
Last time i checked, We and Rome had 55% world pop together. Leaves 45% to share between the remainders. They are nothing.
Edit: Correction 60%
WackenOpenAir
Deity
dmanakho said:
use that excel sheet i posted a few pages back, you will see how you can read ceasars mind
Here a list with techs, their (cost) and AI preference:
Education (44) 43,79
Music Theory (40) 32,44
Chivalry (32) 43,56
Invention (44) 179,79
Gunpowder (48) 122,56
Printing Press (36) 33,60
Banking (52) 36,82
Astronomy (56) 78,48
Physics (64) 28,67
Chemistry (60) 30,44
Democracy (68) 34,33
Free Artistry (52) 25,88
Economics (56) 25,65
Navigation (56) 30,98
Theory of Gravity (68) 31,10
Magnetism (68) 71,10
Military Tradition (64) 23,11
Metallurgy (64) 31,67
I am sorry, but with my vacillation about that invention deal, I have left it too late to finish tonight. I have played 7-8 turns, but it is now seriously late.
A Viking galley is worrying me right outside the completely undefended Phili...
Anyway, as a final taster: rome will buy salt from us (our only source, although there is more in the extreme north of our island, way beyond our towns) for wm, 9gpt and 130g. As Caesar has an unroaded salt square immediately next to one of his cities, this is a trade I fancy. Unless of course the team think different.
A Viking galley is worrying me right outside the completely undefended Phili...
Anyway, as a final taster: rome will buy salt from us (our only source, although there is more in the extreme north of our island, way beyond our towns) for wm, 9gpt and 130g. As Caesar has an unroaded salt square immediately next to one of his cities, this is a trade I fancy. Unless of course the team think different.
Sounds like you got us Gunpowder... Very nice... 
Are we researching Chemistry now?
i'd say sell salt to Ceasar... why should we be losing such an opportunity.
I guess we will be able to connect our second source of saltpenter later in the game...
Are we researching Chemistry now?
i'd say sell salt to Ceasar... why should we be losing such an opportunity.
I guess we will be able to connect our second source of saltpenter later in the game...
WackenOpenAir
Deity
Is 9gpt their max price or is it the max gpt they can pay ? does 10 make them say its just not enough or absolutely impossible ?
If its the max they can pay, it might be much more valuable when you trade it with the next tech we need from them. If of course they have not yet connected their own then.
If its the max they can pay, it might be much more valuable when you trade it with the next tech we need from them. If of course they have not yet connected their own then.
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm8/Wacken_SG008_AD0350_01.SAV
250ad
Houston: short rush library and return to aqueduct.
We have just one worker south of Eindhoven, and quite a bit to do in the core, so I switch NY to produce one. With a jiggle it will get 10spt so it will appear next turn.
I thought about switching Shanghai to a settler, but decide to let it carry on with a slow courthouse build. I switch Boston to market from horse, hopefully no more military needed for a long time.
Short rush archer in canton for a settler, then decide what the heck, and rush the last 10 shields as well: that's the treasury cleaned out.
260ad
I missed something in the handover and in my pre flight check. 2 workers chopped forests next to Canton, so 20 shields are added to the settler build that I have just cash rushed: nuts.
Kill a loose Greek archer in north near Thermopylae, and meet a hoplite/settler pair.
The expensive Canton settler founds Dallas: starts a worker.
We have a severe worker shortage!
270ad
discover education. Talk to Caesar hoping to trade it for invention and discover bad news. He wants a lot for invention. I will consult.
Following discussions I buy invention from Rome: I pay 10g, 16gpt, wm and education.
Following the trade Rome doesn't have gunpowder yet.
280ad
Buffalo aqueduct built, and starts a library.
A barb camp has appeared on the southern tip of our continent, as a barb warrior is right next to our gem colony. We have almost no units in the vicinity, but the remaining warrior in Seattle, and a horseman who I had fortuitously moved here. The horse kills the barb warrior, and our gems are safe for another turn.
We have zero unit costs at present still.
ibt Japan has invention now, Oh well.
290ad
I sell invention for wm and 69g to England while it is still worth something. The AI will definitely be trying for gunpowder now.
I have a big stack next to Thermopylae now, defended by 2 hoplites. However, I don't need much and lose only 1 archer taking it. One elite win: no leader. Greek capital obviously jumps to Corinth. There are barbs swarming around that island: quite unpleasant as our 2 towns have no defence.
Kill one warrior in the barb camp in the south but there is a barb horse left.
300ad
Atlanta library built, start a market.
Miami library built, start aqueduct.
Xinjan settler built, start worker.
StDman worker, start another.
Rome has gunpowder.
Cleveland founded near Canton.
ibt Shantung (on spice island) is sacked with loss of population.
310ad
kill the Greek settler/hoplite pair, for loss of one horse. They had escaped to the north, where there seem to be a lot of barbs.
Destroy barb camp in south, with a horseman, so our gems are safe for now.
320ad
Banking discovered.
build a second gem colony in south.
sell banking + gems to Rome for gunpowder +25g. Surely Caesar will get astronomy quickly now.
Switch to chemistry: due in 5 at -46gpt. We still need 20% lux so I can't get faster. Our northern holdings can't really spare scientists yet.
Washington market, start a uni (I don't think there is time for this though).
Houston aqueduct, go to harbor
Eidhoven aqueduct, start a harbor (it is on zero food surplus, so really should have built the harbor first, I didn't notice this when I started).
Anyang has built a worker, but a barb is right next door so it is undefendable: just move it west and hope the town gets sacked.
There is a Viking galley right next to Boston. I sure hope they mean well, as we are undefended down there. I swap Washington to a horseman, and Boston to a longbow. Many horsemen in the north are returning but they will take ages.
ibt Viking galley moves outside Phili.
Angyang sacked for money.
330ad
Boston longbow, swap to market,
Chicago market, switch to Uni.
Japan now has gunpowder. I am a little surprised as last turn they had 20g, so surely they couldn't afford to buy it, and they only learned invention in 280ad. As Rome has increased in wealth a little, and Japan is now broke, it looks like they have bought it for gpt. Nuts. At least it will help Rome's research.
Rome will buy our only saltpeter for a fair bit of cash. Salt is pretty useless for us, as we don't really want a load of muskets, and the Roman city of Veii has unroaded salt on a desert tile right next to it. This strikes me as a great deal.
It is 1.30 am now though and I can't sensibly finish tonight.
New day, awake.
trade salt to Rome for wm, 137g (all of it) + 12gpt. ( Higher gpt gets "we are close to a deal" ).
Kansas City built next to Athens, starts a worker.
San Diego founded near to Sparta, starts a worker.
Short rush a couple of spears in the north to switch back to settlers. I think we can wait the ten turns, as we have no unit support which adversely affects the economics of rushing.
I have 13 towns building workers now, mainly in the china area.
ibt the viking galley sails away west so I change back to peaceful builds.
340ad
A few more workers built: back up to 24 now (+ 12 slaves).
350ad
San Fran builds market, starts a uni. It is pop 12, and I think ought to stay at 12 for a while, rather than skimming a worker.
Kill a camp in the far north.
I have left a number of units unmoved.
I looked at the diplo screens but didn't make any new deals.
Possibilities include giving education away: I don't think this necessary as Rome MUST be learning Astronomy.
We could make peace with Greece.
In the next turnset peace with China will expire, so we can take the northern towns.
We want a lot more workers.
Chemistry is due in 2.
Renegotiating lux deals with Rome is going to be needed next turnset: likely to be expensive. The Japs have no trade route: you would have thought at emperor they would have built a harbor or a road to Rome.
I have spread out our horsemen between our core cities a bit more, as the visiting viking galley worried me a lot.
Our research is on track, but it is 5 turn rate, as 20 % lux still needed. I feel pretty hopeful that Rome will go for Astronomy.
250ad
Houston: short rush library and return to aqueduct.
We have just one worker south of Eindhoven, and quite a bit to do in the core, so I switch NY to produce one. With a jiggle it will get 10spt so it will appear next turn.
I thought about switching Shanghai to a settler, but decide to let it carry on with a slow courthouse build. I switch Boston to market from horse, hopefully no more military needed for a long time.
Short rush archer in canton for a settler, then decide what the heck, and rush the last 10 shields as well: that's the treasury cleaned out.
260ad
I missed something in the handover and in my pre flight check. 2 workers chopped forests next to Canton, so 20 shields are added to the settler build that I have just cash rushed: nuts.
Kill a loose Greek archer in north near Thermopylae, and meet a hoplite/settler pair.
The expensive Canton settler founds Dallas: starts a worker.
We have a severe worker shortage!
270ad
discover education. Talk to Caesar hoping to trade it for invention and discover bad news. He wants a lot for invention. I will consult.
Following discussions I buy invention from Rome: I pay 10g, 16gpt, wm and education.
Following the trade Rome doesn't have gunpowder yet.
280ad
Buffalo aqueduct built, and starts a library.
A barb camp has appeared on the southern tip of our continent, as a barb warrior is right next to our gem colony. We have almost no units in the vicinity, but the remaining warrior in Seattle, and a horseman who I had fortuitously moved here. The horse kills the barb warrior, and our gems are safe for another turn.
We have zero unit costs at present still.
ibt Japan has invention now, Oh well.
290ad
I sell invention for wm and 69g to England while it is still worth something. The AI will definitely be trying for gunpowder now.
I have a big stack next to Thermopylae now, defended by 2 hoplites. However, I don't need much and lose only 1 archer taking it. One elite win: no leader. Greek capital obviously jumps to Corinth. There are barbs swarming around that island: quite unpleasant as our 2 towns have no defence.
Kill one warrior in the barb camp in the south but there is a barb horse left.
300ad
Atlanta library built, start a market.
Miami library built, start aqueduct.
Xinjan settler built, start worker.
StDman worker, start another.
Rome has gunpowder.
Cleveland founded near Canton.
ibt Shantung (on spice island) is sacked with loss of population.
310ad
kill the Greek settler/hoplite pair, for loss of one horse. They had escaped to the north, where there seem to be a lot of barbs.
Destroy barb camp in south, with a horseman, so our gems are safe for now.
320ad
Banking discovered.
build a second gem colony in south.
sell banking + gems to Rome for gunpowder +25g. Surely Caesar will get astronomy quickly now.
Switch to chemistry: due in 5 at -46gpt. We still need 20% lux so I can't get faster. Our northern holdings can't really spare scientists yet.
Washington market, start a uni (I don't think there is time for this though).
Houston aqueduct, go to harbor
Eidhoven aqueduct, start a harbor (it is on zero food surplus, so really should have built the harbor first, I didn't notice this when I started).
Anyang has built a worker, but a barb is right next door so it is undefendable: just move it west and hope the town gets sacked.
There is a Viking galley right next to Boston. I sure hope they mean well, as we are undefended down there. I swap Washington to a horseman, and Boston to a longbow. Many horsemen in the north are returning but they will take ages.
ibt Viking galley moves outside Phili.
Angyang sacked for money.
330ad
Boston longbow, swap to market,
Chicago market, switch to Uni.
Japan now has gunpowder. I am a little surprised as last turn they had 20g, so surely they couldn't afford to buy it, and they only learned invention in 280ad. As Rome has increased in wealth a little, and Japan is now broke, it looks like they have bought it for gpt. Nuts. At least it will help Rome's research.
Rome will buy our only saltpeter for a fair bit of cash. Salt is pretty useless for us, as we don't really want a load of muskets, and the Roman city of Veii has unroaded salt on a desert tile right next to it. This strikes me as a great deal.
It is 1.30 am now though and I can't sensibly finish tonight.
New day, awake.
trade salt to Rome for wm, 137g (all of it) + 12gpt. ( Higher gpt gets "we are close to a deal" ).
Kansas City built next to Athens, starts a worker.
San Diego founded near to Sparta, starts a worker.
Short rush a couple of spears in the north to switch back to settlers. I think we can wait the ten turns, as we have no unit support which adversely affects the economics of rushing.
I have 13 towns building workers now, mainly in the china area.
ibt the viking galley sails away west so I change back to peaceful builds.
340ad
A few more workers built: back up to 24 now (+ 12 slaves).
350ad
San Fran builds market, starts a uni. It is pop 12, and I think ought to stay at 12 for a while, rather than skimming a worker.
Kill a camp in the far north.
I have left a number of units unmoved.
I looked at the diplo screens but didn't make any new deals.
Possibilities include giving education away: I don't think this necessary as Rome MUST be learning Astronomy.
We could make peace with Greece.
In the next turnset peace with China will expire, so we can take the northern towns.
We want a lot more workers.
Chemistry is due in 2.
Renegotiating lux deals with Rome is going to be needed next turnset: likely to be expensive. The Japs have no trade route: you would have thought at emperor they would have built a harbor or a road to Rome.
I have spread out our horsemen between our core cities a bit more, as the visiting viking galley worried me a lot.
Our research is on track, but it is 5 turn rate, as 20 % lux still needed. I feel pretty hopeful that Rome will go for Astronomy.
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