SGOTM8 - Wacken

Yep, good that you mention it so i won't forget. Will sell all those buildings.

I don't know what you call a large force, but with gold to rushbuild, a golden age and also mobilisation, i think we can get close to 10 tanks per turn production.
I hope to find still many many workers around. They are even good to use for disbanding in cities so that i get a little start for rushbuilding. (think a 60 spt city, disband worker, rush spear, build tank in 1 turn)

Japs against Rome could be good, but it will ruin reputation. Don't know if that rep is gonna be needed for the ROP rapes. I guess we can do without it.

I don't know how resources are, but that is the most important issue, do they both have resources for infantry, or are they trading resources? If they trade them, war is very important yes. Else, i will make the resources my primary target if possible.
 
Offa, could you tell me what amount of tanks are needed against infantry ? some numbers for different numbers of infantry like 2 - 4 - 6 inf would be nice :)

I have downloaded your tool, installed java (why don't you just use Cpp ;)) and used it to calculate for myself.

To keep it short and simple:
Tanks vs Infantry in Cities.
2.5 attackers per defender = 90% capture
3 attackers per defender on hills.
 
Preflight check: big shopping list, will try my best. Move settle out of Shantung to the S. Try to adjust slider but we need 90%, so change some scientists to taxman, get us to +5gpt, flight still in 1T. Start setting up 3 mainland ICS towns for settlers. Sell WM all around.

IBT: Renew Ivory and Silk deal with Japan for Dyes, Wines, and SM. English LB burns Vadso. They also land 3 MDI’s and a LB on the Greek Island.
Flight -> RP
Washington Cav -> Cav; Chicago bomber -> bomber; Seattle Bomber -> Bomber; San Fran Bank -> bomber; St. Dman bomber -> settler; Baltimore harbor -> wealth

T1: 960AD Japan has RP :) Sell Steel to Japan for RP and WM. Build Airfields up by Las Vegas (no need for double-working the tiles).
Near Anyang: vCav dies vs MDI (3/5); vCav kills MDI (2/4); rCav kills MDI and promotes (4/4)
Airlift 21 Cav and 3 bombers to England. Airlift 6 cav to the Greek Island. Unloading those 27 workers frees up a lot of money, so I futz with scientist and taxman and sliders till we make +209gpt, MP in 4T @ 70%

IBT: Lose Anyang to Roman 3/5 MDI (kills the 4/4 cav flawlessly)
Washington cav -> cav; New York Inf -> Inf; Boston, Philly, Atlanta, Miami, Buffalo, cav-> cav; Tatung worker -> worker; Eindhoven cav -> bomber; New Orleans Cav -> bomber.

T2: 970AD Demand 20g 2x from England and get it. Fail on the 3rd demand, so declare war.
Capture the English town of Exiter on our landmass + worker

IBT: Chicago bomber -> bomber; Seattle Cav -> Cav; San Fran bomber -> Bomber

T3: 980AD English War: @ Newcastle: vCav kills rCav (3/4); vCav kills spear (5/5); vCav kills spear (4/4) and we take the town + 2 workers. Kill a nearby LB (4/4) to gain access to Nottingham.
Roman war: Near Shantung: eCav kills LB (4/5); vCav kills MDI (4/4)
@ Tarentum: Lose 2 cavs to Inf before I stop this nonsense. Need bombers over there now.

IBT: Lose a cav to an English cav; Greeks want a MPP if we give them 4gpt, no thanks.
Washington bomber -> bomber; New York Inf -> Inf; Philly Bomber -> Bomber; Atlanta Bomber -> bomber; Thermopylae settler -> settler; Miami cav -> cav; Buffalo cav -> cav; New Orleans cav -> cav

T4: 990AD English war: @ Coventry: vCav kills eSpear (4/5); vCav dies to ¾ cav (1/4); vCav kills spear (4/4); vCav kills ¼ cav and we take the city, but raze it for workers
@ Oxford: vCav kills eSpear (2/4); vCav kills rCav (3/4) but not enough units to take city (next turn)
@Nottingham: bomber takes 2hp off musket; eCav kills nearby archer; vCav kills nearby LB; vCav kills nearby archer (1/4); vCav kills spear (3/4); vCav kills redlined musket and we take the town + 2 workers.
Nearby: Lose a Cav trying to kill an archer, redline another cav killing the same archer; vCav kills LB and captures a worker.
Rush a harbor in Newcastle and build a colony on incense in English lands.

Can’t Airlift a settler. Rush one in Shantung.

IBT: Rome offers peace, but wants refining.
MP -> Motor Transit
Boston, Chicago, San Fran, Eindhoven, bomber -> bomber; Seattle Cav ->Cav; Newcastle harbor -> wealth; Shantung settler -> settler

Japanese complete Bach’s

T5: 1000AD Roman war: 4 Bombers take 1hp off an infantry, and destroy the barracks.
English war: @ London: vCav kills rSpear (3/4); vCav dies to rSpear (1/3); vCav dies to rSpear (1/3); vCav kills 1/3 spear (4/4) 2x and we take the city + 3 workers + 1g.
Near Nottingham: Inf kills archer (2/4); 4/5 cav kills archer (1/5) :eek:
@Oxford: vCav kills rSpear and we take the town + 3 workers + 1g

IBT: Must be getting sleepy as I lose about 8 workers on the Greek island to a Roman cav :(
Washington bomber -> bomber; NY inf -> inf; Philly bomber -> bomber; Atlanta bomber -> bomber; Miami cav ->cav; Buffalo cav ->cav; New Orleans cav ->cav; Richmond worker -> worker
Romans building Smith’s

T6: 1010AD Roman war: redline everything in Tarantum: vCav kills inf (2/5); vCav dies to inf (1/5); vCav kills inf (3/4) and we destroy the town + kill a leader + 1g
Nearby: vCav kills 4/4 Cav (2/4); recapture the lost workers, Found Tacoma
English war: @Liverpool: bombers destroy Lib and take 2hp off musket; vCav kills spear; vCav kills musket and we take the town + 1 worker

IBT: Romans drop off 3 MDI’s and a musket in the ICS
Chicago bomber -> bomber; Seattle Cav ->cav; San Fran bomber -> bomber; St. Dman settler -> settler; Las Vegas harbor -> settler

T7: 1020AD English now have Nationalism
War with England: Bomb Yorkshire; vCav retreats from musket; vCav kills rMusket (2/4); vCav dies vs cRifle (1/2); vCav kills 2/4 Musket (3/5); vCav kills ½ rifle (5/5); vCav kills ¼ rifle (2/4); vCav kills ¼ rifle and we take the town + Sistine’s
@Dover: vCav kills rMusket; eCav kills spear (1/5) and we take the town
@Brighton: vCav kills 3spear (2/4); vCav kills rSpear (3/4) and we take the town + 2 workers, Nearby, vCav kills archer (4/5)

IBT: Washington bomber -> bomber, NY Inf -> inf; Eindhoven New Orleans Boston Philly Atlanta bomber -> bomber; Miami Cav -> Cav; Buffalo cav -> cav

T8: 1030AD Found JapanRocks
English war: @ Warrick: kill a musket and spear, lose nothing
@ Norwich: take it, without losing a unit (I think).
2 English towns left on continent, maneuver Cav to take both next turn.

DoW on Vikings, disconnect Trondheim from the rest of the empire via bombers.

Continued:
Destroy the Viking town of Molde with 2 cavs, killing a pike and spear.
Abandon the town of Nottingham as a flip would destroy a lot of nearby bombers.

DoW on Japan, MM cities due to the loss of 2 luxes.

IBT: MT -> Advanced Flight
Chicago bomber -> tank; Seattle tank -> tank; San Fran bomber -> bomber; Shantung settler -> worker

T9: 1040AD Rome has Communism.
Pound on the Roman rubber city of Cummae, destroying a barracks and 4 pop.
Take Hastings (English) killing 2 rifles, 1 musket, and 1 spear (no losses)
Take Canterbury, killing 2 spears with eCavs, but no leader luck.
Sign peace with England, taking Leeds (pop2), WM, and 10g

Pummel Copenhagen (Viking), dropping 3 pop + rax.

Sell China Edu for all their gold (about 34, but why not?). DoW on China.
Raze Kaifeng with 1 cav.
Raze Chinan, killing 2 eSpears, losing 1 vCav.

Mess with Sci specialists till we can get AF in 4T @80%, +41gpt

IBT: England and Japan sign embargo against us. Greece and Rome MA vs us. Rome drops off a legion, MDI, and 2 Rambos.
Washington tank -> tank, NY Tank -> tank, Philly bomber -> bomber, Atlanta bomber-> bomber

T10: 1050AD Misclick a tank while attacking Roman landing forces. 2nd times a charm, and then kill all 4 with 1 tank and 2 elite cav’s. Tank goes elite on 1st attack, but still no leader. Also, move workers under the misclicked tank so we can move him easily next turn.
I’ve gathered the workers and settlers near Washington. Also, there’s a settler in JapanRocks. Workers near Washington are configured in pollution busting stacks, with all workers except the top one fortified.
Worker has been rushed in Leeds so we can build an airfield and finish off the English. Cav’s in position to sack Corinth next turn.
Bombers are heavy near the Roman border in former England, but light elsewhere. Tsingtao rioted because we declared on China and I forgot to check.

Army consists of 57 cavs, 4 infantry, 3 tanks, and 26 bombers. 4 Tanks and 4 Bombers due next turn. Advanced Flight due in 3T.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm8/Wacken_SG008_AD1050_01.SAV
 
Our expansion and future targets. Again, there's a worker due in Leeds so that English island can be taken quickly once the backstab occurs. Happy hunting :hammer:

Wacken8-1050AD.jpg
 
Nice job! :goodjob:
now i am sleepy and all i can think is that we need temp peace with Rome so we can use choppers to move settlers in 3 turns to roman land/establish town and airfields and finish them off... Doesn't look like Romans will give us any cities on their land for peace..
i am off to bed... will see what you guys come up with tomorrow.
 
Thanx, looks good.

One important question:

Does anyone know the exact rules that decide my cultural border when i settle inside enemy territory ?
 
Tanks v infantry.

Fortified infantry in a city has a defence of 18.5, which is higher than a tank's attack. This late in the game defenders are likely to be vets. Rome and Japs are militaristic which also has a small impact.

This gives the following in my simulator ( defender fortified, in a city, not attacked across a river):

1 vet tank v 1 vet infantry : 38.3%
2 vet tank v 1 vet infantry: 77.7%
3 vet tank v 1 vet infantry: 93.2%

4 vet tank v 2 vet infantry: 72%
5 vet tank v 2 vet infantry: 88%

5 vet tank v 3 vet infantry: 47%
6 vet tank v 3 vet infantry: 69%
7 vet tank v 3 vet infantry: 77%

7 vet tank v 4 vet infantry: 48.8%
8 vet tank v 4 vet infantry: 68.1%

Clearly any bombing we could manage would improve these stats.
 
Offa said:
Shouldn't we be mobilized?

Re borders, I dont know if this will answer your question:

borders
Click to expand...

Yes, that provides the needed answer. Lowest rank gets it no matter how big the cultural border influence is.
So that means if you have cities CxxC, none of the cities can ever get a tile from the others 9 tile radius, even if it has a million times the culture. Didn't know that :)
 
I will make a little change of plans. Instead of using the ceasarea island, i will go from England to Rome. With the location of the bombers, that is probably what grahamiam had in mind.

Easter Rome, Japan and the Vikings can all be started with an offensive city. For western Rome that might be more difficult. If we approach it from our homeland, we need to take a city by foot soldiers for we only have 1 tile to land on. Foot soldiers have attack 6, against redlined infantry, i'd need 2 per infantry defender.

It is also still an option to research amphibious warfare as well for the 12 attack foot units. Converted to gold and rushbuild shields, that would cost about 800 shields, so i don't know if thats worth it yet, but it would make taking those western Rome and the small islands a lot easier. I will decide on that later.

Playing these turns will probably take me a little while, tonight i will have little time, and i might need 10 hours or so for this turnset.
 
I would rather rush cavs, bombers, and tanks than research marines. Marines cost more than tanks, attack with less power, and cost 20 shields more each. imho, bombers and cav's can take care of the Japanese (only saw rifles in thier bombed cities so I don't think they have rubber, and Rome's rubber is cutoff @ Cumae). Tanks can be then airlifted in to take care of the Romans.
 
agree on sticking with tanks...

@Wacken: Even if you don't finish all 10 turns tonight send us some spoiler info with a pic or two, please :)
 
The reason that marines COULD be interesting is for the places where we have no space to land and make an airstrip. Some islands we must conquer a first city instead of make one ourself. Also not that for the 1 city islands, marines can be used faster as it is drop - attack rather than drop-airstrip-attack.
But i do indeed not expect to use them, just thinking about the option.

I will post info when i have it :)
 
those small islands are usually lightly defended so paratroopers could be used without the need to research an extra technology.
 
WackenOpenAir said:
The reason that marines COULD be interesting is for the places where we have no space to land and make an airstrip. Some islands we must conquer a first city instead of make one ourself. Also not that for the 1 city islands, marines can be used faster as it is drop - attack rather than drop-airstrip-attack.
Click to expand...

Dman said:
those small islands are usually lightly defended so paratroopers could be used without the need to research an extra technology.
Click to expand...
Only small Islands I can recall were the Viking ones, and they have muskets at best, but most likely spears and pikes. A helo or 2 full of cavs should take care of them fine.

The Roman Island N of the ICS will be the toughest nut to crack, imo. Though I have a feeling that an initial landing of 9 or so tanks + cav's + bomber support will fold it quickly. In fact, I'd be very suprised to see this make it to Xevious, especially once the Japanese start folding :D
 
Fine with me, my kids are home and time is getting scarce again. If I only have a couple turns to play (or none) so much the better. :p
 
I expect in my turnset to conquer half of Rome, all of Scandinavia, and have a little start on Japan.
Probably 5 or more turns needed after mine.
 
Rome: Cumae, perhaps Pisae(cannot remember)
Vikings: Trondheim (barracks + harbor), Copenhagen, and a city S of Tronheim but N of Copenhagen (forget the name)

Most Roman bombing involved disconnecting Cumae as it has the rubber. I was just getting around to hurting Pisae and Rome, but only food tiles.

No damage yet to Japan as bombers just got into JapanRocks. I think I disconnected 1 silk tile in the N.
 
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