SGOTM8 - Xteam

[WillowBrook]

Hi Zamint! Keep the visitor posts coming!

And Comcast still doesn't have our cable working, so my access is still restricted to when I'm on campus AND (new this year) not in class.

 

[leif erikson]

And Comcast still doesn't have our cable working, so my access is still restricted to when I'm on campus AND (new this year) not in class.

If you're not in class, you may as well be playing Civ!

What is with these cable companies? First Gator and now you.

 

[DJMGator13]

Progress Report

I played the pre turn and succeded in renaming Detroit. Taking Willow's suggestion for a spy/corruption laden place I selected Area 51 since it is a Forbidden Palace and as such it should not be officially recognized by Washington.

Turn 1 saw this pop up

and that is where I find myself at now. I've bought/sold the World Map from everyone and I'm not sure we can get a mainland city from Japan. England on the other hand has 2 size 1 cities on their mainland. So I think we should hit England next and start adding gold producing cities to our empire. We are Strong to England currently and can probably do a lot of damage with just horses. This would speed up the conquest of that island if we can do it with horses instead of the more expensives knights.

Here is a look at both Japan and England. Any comments?

Here's the save for a more detailed look.

 

[leif erikson]

It might be worth a try with Japan because Nagasaki is still only size 2. But we could also end up with Shimonoseki or Matsayama, on the central island.

With England, you might try declaring on both the Vikings (still my heart) and England. If we can get the 2 Vikings cities and 2 English cities, we might pick up a Harbor and some Barracks (optimism here). With 4 cities to start, that gives us an excellent start.

I think that the Japanese/Rome continent is going to be a tough nut to crack. If we wait too long, it will be impossible. I think we are also getting Ivory from Japan, so watch the riots. It is another factor to consider as runninng the lux slider will cut into Gold for unit production.

I think I've talked myself into England and Vikings to start?

 

[DJMGator13]

With England, you might try declaring on both the Vikings (still my heart) and England. If we can get the 2 Vikings cities and 2 English cities, we might pick up a Harbor and some Barracks (optimism here). With 4 cities to start, that gives us an excellent start.

I was thinking something similair to this. Gift the 2 cities, declare on ENG, retake cities. Try to get a MA with VIK against ENG before declaring on VIK. Gift 2 cities to VIK, declare and retake cities. Sue for peace ASAP. Hopefully we'll have 3 to 4 cities there and can start cash rushing some units.

I think that the Japanese/Rome continent is going to be a tough nut to crack. If we wait too long, it will be impossible. I think we are also getting Ivory from Japan, so watch the riots. It is another factor to consider as runninng the lux slider will cut into Gold for unit production.

I think we are going to need Japan & Rome to bang on each other first. We are weak to Rome and average to Japan, who still haven't hooked up their iron.

On the trade front we are only trading for furs with Rome (14 turns left) no other deals. Rome & Japan both want too much gold for us to trade for silks.

I think I've talked myself into England and Vikings to start?

If I'm going for ENG & VIK I can get 8gpt from Rome for one of our luxes.

I'd love to go after Japan right now but I think we need to take the easier land/cities from ENG & VIK to really get our gpt up.

I'll finish up tomorrow night, that will give the others a chance to post their thoughts.

 

[leif erikson]

I was thinking something similair to this. Gift the 2 cities, declare on ENG, retake cities. Try to get a MA with VIK against ENG before declaring on VIK. Gift 2 cities to VIK, declare and retake cities. Sue for peace ASAP. Hopefully we'll have 3 to 4 cities there and can start cash rushing some units.

Please don't be bashful about getting cities on the Viking continent as well. They are so far behind technologically, they should be a push-over.

Besides, it would be nice not having to face Berserks attacking cities from Galleys. I really hate having to follow Viking Galleys around the map wondering where their target is! :thumbdown

 

[Capt Buttkick]

If we're going with the gifting/retaking strategy, shouldn' we ensure those cities have culture built?
I think nationality changes with gifting which means there'll be no foreign citizens when we retake the city, thus leaving it razeable?

 

[leif erikson]

In the test games, I gifted cities with a pop of 2 or more. The city will lose one pop point when it is taken, if it is size 1, it autorazes. If it is size 2, it becomes size 1 and you capture it. There were no cultural buildings in these cities and it didn't seem to matter.

I *think* when a city is gifted all the cultural building disappear and all the citizens become the nationality of the civ that receives the city.

The only problem I had was in one case, I waited a couple of turns to take back the city and the civ that I gave it to pop rushed a unit and then I had to wait until the city got back to pop 2 before I could take it back or it would have auto-razed.

 

[Capt Buttkick]

Yes, it was the last case I was afraid of.
If no AIs are in a pop-rush gov, we've got no probs anyway, but we should be 100% sure we can retake the city if we gift it away.

 

[leif erikson]

In test games, that is exactly what I did. Gift the cities, declare war and retake them immediately. That also seems to allow peace to come sooner, usually in 5 to 7 turns. It doesn't seem to do any good to wait any longer, especially since you really can't do any additional damage.

@Gator, I've been thinking about Japan. I'm not sure it would be wise to start anything between Rome and Japan until we can either supply Japan with Iron or they get it themselves. The one thing I don't think we want is Rome conquering that whole area. Perhaps we should think about and discuss this a little bit. Perhaps it might be smarter to go after Rome if we can get a landing place on their continent, but Knights would be a requirement for this, imho.

 

[WillowBrook]

If I had to pick alone, I'd go after both England and Vikings aiming for the English island. Good luck!

 

[WillowBrook]

Double post alert!

The last one was short because I was about to get my internet access cut off since class was starting. Now I can say more fully that the plans Gator posted sound good; I wasn't implying any disagreement in method or goal.

I'd also like to point out that our Greeks were annoyingly less expansive than those of any other team with evidence in the spoiler - they all settled the island just to the west, while our silly neighbors stuck on the home continent (and paid for it, of course).

 

[DJMGator13]

On the gifting and recapture: size 1 cities that are the nationality of a deceased civ do not normally autoraze upon recapture, are you sure the nationality changes when gifted?

@leif - I'll try for a city on the VIK mainland also, but I think we'll be better served going for their 2 small ones on the ENG island. One on their island will be more likely to flip back to them and we'll only have enough money to build 1 army at a time. I do agree that I'd like to get rid of them before we see beserkers.

I wasn't planning on stirring up trouble between Rome and Japan. The worst thing for us is if Rome goes on the offensive.

I'll be playing later tonight.

 

[leif erikson]

On the gifting and recapture: size 1 cities that are the nationality of a deceased civ do not normally autoraze upon recapture, are you sure the nationality changes when gifted?

Absolutely sure. If we gift to England, the citizens become English. The way to check this is when you get Viking or English cities tonight, have a look. The citizens will all be American.

@leif - I'll try for a city on the VIK mainland also, but I think we'll be better served going for their 2 small ones on the ENG island. One on their island will be more likely to flip back to them and we'll only have enough money to build 1 army at a time. I do agree that I'd like to get rid of them before we see beserkers.

I just checked in the save you posted and it looks to me as though the Vikings are either 2nd in culcher or a close 3rd! They are also not so backwards anymore? Oh well, do your best and we'll see how it goes.

BTW, we can't trade with England which means no harbors. I can't remember the cost to rush atm, buut it won't be cheap. Speaking of which, do you think we should reduce the size of our military and their maintanence. Disbanding all the warriors, spears and archers will net us an extra 20 GPT?

My worry is that now Klarius looks like they are finishing soon, and faster than Wacken. Given that it takes 5 to 8 turns to gift, capture and make peace, I hate to wait too long to set up the next one. But, "rushing miracles only makes bad miracles!"

I wasn't planning on stirring up trouble between Rome and Japan. The worst thing for us is if Rome goes on the offensive.

I'll be playing later tonight.

No, I think it should wait as well until Japan has Iron hooked up at least.

Good luck!!

 

[DJMGator13]

The save

preturn 250AD (turn 140)
load save file, review and post some thoughts to our team thread - save game and exit

look over game and decide to push attack on Delphi - we have 7 horses ready and I moved 3 more in for next turn if needed
vHorse vrs vHop - we redline flawlessly and retreat
vHorse vrs vHop - we die flawlessly
stop attack for now

Decide I might have better luck after renaming Detroit, what to name it?
How about:
Willow's Palace
or Auburn Hills (for those Detroit Piston fans out there)
or The Hill
decide to go with Area 51 (since a forbidden palace should not be officially recognized by our government)

change Boston to a aqueduct
start moving some of the warriors to disband them in cities (disband 1 this turn)

slow research to 20% for extra 26gpt only adds 3 turns to Chivalry - we can't afford to buy knights right now anyhow

IBT - GRK & JPN sign peace deal / we lose of silk deal / lose 1 horse to GRK archer and kill a GRK axe in defense / 2 cities riot after losing the lux (before I can gain control)
Nanking worker => settler (cycle cities and stop 2 others from riotting)
Tsingtao settler => settler

Turn 141 - 260AD
Battle for Delphi
vHorse vrs vHop - we redline but win, no promo
vHorse vrs rHop - we die flawlessly
vHorse vrs rHop - we die inflicting 2hp they promo to 2/4
vHorse vrs 2/4 vHop - we win down 1hp
vHorse vrs 1/4 v Archer (that redlined our horse on the IBT) - we win and eliminate GRK

take out a Bhorse next to Delphi - just for good measure

Buy World map from Japan for our Wmap and 11 gold - I wanted to see size of JPN cities and their road network before determining who to go to war with
Sell Wmap to ENG for Wmap & 13gold
Sell Wmap to VIK for Wmap & 1gold (all they had)
Sell Wmap to ROM for Tmap & 10gold

Our military is
Weak to ROM
Average to JPN & VIK
Strong to ENG

We have 51 units
2 settlers / 16 workers / 5 warriors / 7 archers / 8 spears / 13 horses

Decide to post the new WMap in the team thread and confirm ny decision to declare on ENG instead of Japan.

Resume game (next night) start positioning for gifting cities to VIK
Found Detroit (again)

since I can't trade for any luxes without giving up our treasury I decide to sell gems to Rome for 10gpt

IBT - a ROM galley off our west coast
Washington (back in control) horse => horse
Shanghai worker => settler
Pharsalos worker => wealth (may gift this city)
New Orleans worker => marketplace
add a section to our palace

Turn 142 - 270AD
sell walls in Shanghai - move a few horses outside of city
decide to keep Shanghai and I move 2 elite horses by Pharsalos
sell barracks in New York, Philly, Atlanta, Chicago, Seattle, San Fran, St. Louis & Boston to reducing maintenance costs from 13gpt to 5gpt

I need to keep most of our troops for the gifting and recapture of cities - we can thin them out later - we'rer up to 139gpt with Chivalry in 9

IBT - Philly maketplace => aqueduct

Turn 143 - 280AD
Pharsalos (size 3, 1AMR, 2GRK) & Buffalo (size 3, 3AMR) are gifted to VIK
Buffalo (size 3, 3AMR)

recapture Buffalo with a single archer and the remaining citizens are now VIK, start a worker
recapture Pharsalos with our eHorse - no promo - Interesting there is now 1 GRK & 1 VIK citizen, so only our native citizens change nationalities when gifted

IBT - Chicago marketplace => aqueduct
San Fran marketplace => aqueduct

Turn 144 - 290AD
VIK won't talk yet
gift the same 2 cities to ENG
recapture Buffalo (1 VIK)
recapture Pharsalos (1 VIK)
set both to workers
keep our military until we make peace

ROM & JPN learned Chivalry, since it will cost 276gold to rush a 1 shield knight I drop sci to 0% and hire 1 scientist which slows to 27 turns but gives us 200gpt. We can always turn science back on and learn Chivalry in 3 turns at 20% but for now this will save us having to disconnect our iron to make horses to attack ENG & VIK.

adjust for unhappiness

IBT - Washington horse => settler
Seattle marketplace => aqueduct
Denver worker => marketplace
JPN is building Leo's

Turn 145 - 300AD
neither VIK or ENG will talk yet
cycle thru city builds to stop all barracks and military units
still waiting for peace before disbanding units
rush a worker in Tientsin for 12gold

IBT - Tientsin worker => harbor

Turn 146 - 310AD
ROM learned Theology
neither VIK or ENG will talk yet

found Dallas on a BG but it fits in the FP first ring - set to marketplace
moving 2 horses to Bcamp in the north
up to 211gpt & 1358 in treasury
check unhappiness

IBT - Hangchow settler => marketplace

Turn 147 - 320AD
neither will talk

IBT - Bhorse redlines one of our horses making it's way to the Bcamp / a VIK galley approaches
Washington settler => temple (may want to change this)
New York marketplace => courthouse (???)
Atlanta aqueduct => harbor
Houston settler => marketplace

Turn 148 - 330AD
neither will talk
moves troops to keep an eye on VIK galley near Boston

IBT - Bhorse dies attacking our horse
Area 51 aqueduct => marketplace

Turn 149 - 340AD
both will talk

Dial up ENG first - they will give us Brighton, but not Dover (must be a resource there)
start harbor

VIK will only give Malmo which is on a small island by itself so I do not make peace with them for now

IBT - VIK galley near Boston turns around and heads back NW / a second VIK galley appears by Bcamp way up north
St Louis courthouse => marketplace

Turn 150 - 350AD
buy Wmap from ENG for 2gold - they have hooked up their iron finally
spend 316 gold to rush harbor in Brighton
take up Bcamp for 25gold
found Memphis

ENG settled Norwich

Hand-off Report
1) Time to start rushing horses in England, they have the potential to have pikes but they have only recently hooked up their iron so they shouldn't have many of them
2) We can still finish Chivalry in 3 turns if we go back to 20% science but I'd like to get a few horses rushed first
3) Neither of the VIK galleys have off-loaded yet (no beserkers because VIK are still in AA)
4) I haven't thinned out our troops yet because we are average to VIK and I did not want to become weak to them - once we make peace with them get rid of all warriors, spears and archers and then strategically place horses around our mainland

 

[leif erikson]

Looking Good Gator!!

Looks like we are on our way to taking the English island! I don't suppose that Brighton came with a Barracks?

Those Viking cities in the south of England are growing and that's prolly why they don't want to give them up. We may have to go after them to force the Vikings to give us anything on their island.

Before I say anything more, I'd better go look at the save??

Roster:
Bluebox - UP
Leif - On Deck
Willow
Capt.
Nemesis
Gator - Just played.

 

[DJMGator13]

I don't think there is a barrack in Brighton and there are no roads across the jungle.

At 4gold per shield to rush it will cost 276 gold for a knight and only 116 for a horse after placing 1 shield in the box. So we need to decide if we want to rush horses or knights. I think we ought to rush about 5 horses and then switch to knights but it will take 12 turns to rush a barracks and 5 horses with only one city that's why I wanted a second city there so that we could rush 1 unit a turn.

As long as the VIK don't land in mass on our homeland I think we should stay at war with them and try to gain a second city ASAP. We can buy twice as many horses as knights so we may want to push the limit with horses.

 

[leif erikson]

I agree on Horses. If we can take down Hoppies, we can take down Pikes, given enough Horses. And there is no Barracks in Brighton...

It is pretty primative over there! CivAssist2 says the flips risk of Brighton is 1.5 to 3%, requiring 20 troops to get it to zero? By the time we have 20 troops, we had better have half the island.

I think, while we build our strength, we need to try and take some of the smaller towns around; Oxford, Nottingham and Canterbury, as well as the Viking towns. I hope we can capture a bunch or workers and a leader because jumping the palace over here will be interesting.

I also agree with staying on the Vikings for a while.

I look again after some

 

[bluebox]

recapture Buffalo with a single archer and the remaining citizens are now VIK, start a worker
recapture Pharsalos with our eHorse - no promo - Interesting there is now 1 GRK & 1 VIK citizen, so only our native citizens change nationalities when gifted

The explanation for this game behaviour will be the Greeks had culture in their city, we hadn't. Because of that both Brighton citizens are instant Americans.

I'll check the game and log and in case of any questions post them here.

Consider this a Gotit!

 

[leif erikson]

Good Luck Bluebox!!

Wish I had something stellar to say, but it seems pretty straightforward, so have fun!