Shared Technology System

[bene_legionary]

Technologies and ideas naturally spread after their invention, and that spread of ideas through trade and interactions has changed the world over and over again. The translation of the Bible and the Printing Press; Gunpowder; the Internet; wheeled chariots; Chinese, Slavic and Latin script; etc. Yet these interactions aren't really explored in Civilization VI, apart from the base game Research Agreements, and Peter of Russia's unique ability. Inter-civilization contact is very lacking in Civilization VI, which should be something that needs to be improved on for the next game.

One way that this could be done is that, instead of each civilization having their own researched technologies with their own progress, researched technologies are shared between civilizations that have met each other. Researching technologies would remain very similar – a civilization would select a technology to research, and it would start researching it with its science output. However, the science that the civilization puts in can be added on to by other civilizations that they have met, and especially by others on their continent. For example, England could research 60% of gunpowder, then stop researching gunpowder to start the research of square rigging. Neighbouring France can pick up that remaining 60% to research gunpowder for themselves. Civilizations that discover technologies then give other civilizations on a continent they share with bonuses or slow passive research towards adopting that technology – those civilizations don't have to research that technology, but they have to adopt it to get its bonuses. In the last example, England might have a bonus towards adopting gunpowder because they researched some of it by themselves already. If France and England meet China; which has already researched gunpowder by itself; before they complete gunpowder, their scientific progress would be applied to adopting gunpowder. Instead of researching everything by themselves, a civilization may decide to put more resources into other aspects of their civilization and their scientific advancement would be through adopting existing technologies other civilizations have researched, or adding on to others' discoveries. Or, two civilizations might put their research focus into one technology at the same time, researching faster than if only one civilization researched it by themselves – whoever put the most into researching the technology adopts it, while the other civ gains a significant bonus towards adopting it. The bonus could be improved with trade routes, embassies and missions, and research agreements.

I'd like to know everybody's thoughts on it, especially any holes you can see.

 

[Naokaukodem]

Nice idea there. But how would "adopting" work exactly ? Would you have to spend cultural/production/gold/faith points in order to do it or just adopt the right policy card ? The later would for sure make policy card system a lot more valuable and interesting. Or maybe both ?

 

[BuchiTaton]

Tech diffusion between a civ with X tech and the one that lack it could be facilitated by conditions that reduce the cost and time of "research", like:
- Open contiguos borders
- Active trade route
- Alliance and coperation
- Same goverment and/or religion
- Populations of the same culture

Still, lets be carefull to not reduce too much the value of independent research (since Science is supposed to be a relevant design for many civs). For example the civ that research a tech first could get some Science bonus from each one, also get Prestige* from it (for Science victory?) So even if techs are shared or spread naturaly, the civs that research them by themselves would gain the most for Science victory.

 

[bene_legionary]

But how would "adopting" work exactly?

Science for technologies and culture for civics, like researching normally, but there might be other hurdles that wouldn't be there if you hard-researched it. Gold might have to do something with it, but I don't want to make gold something more than just a tool to help your victory. Possibly, the scientific/cultural cost could be modified by parts of your empire, like population, number of improvements, etc. I don't know what you mean with policy cards though, you mean if the player adopts a policy, they adopt the technology with it?

the value of independent research

This wasn't something I'd thought of. Scientific civilizations would still have an edge by being the first there to adopt technologies by hard-researching them. They could have a unique bonus towards being the one to discover it, but I think there's probably better ideas for that.

Whatever happens in Civilization VII for victories I can't say, but I think "get the hell out of Earth and onto Mars" is just too old and repetitive, and there is very little credit for any technological discoveries before spaceports. But scientific victory points are pretty boring too... it's not what this post is about, but if I had any say in how scientific victories were implemented into VII I'd make a few major discoveries, (a cure for cancer, a habitat on Mars, fusion energy), and whoever completes 2 of 3 of these major discoveries immediately triggers the scientific victory.

 

[Naokaukodem]

Gold might have to do something with it, but I don't want to make gold something more than just a tool to help your victory.

Or production, etc. well or/and.

I don't know what you mean with policy cards though, you mean if the player adopts a policy, they adopt the technology with it?

Exactly. We might need some extra slots than currently though. Or maybe not...

 

[Saxo Grammaticus]

I do not totally grasp the original concept, but I have two interpretations.

a) Initially, I read it like each technology were a project or competition, so everyone could compete but essentially as soon as the world collectively researched a technology it would pretty much be available to all. This could actually be kind of interesting, if not for every technology, then at least for some key ones.​

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b) Then I read it more like a beefed up version of tech diffusion like that present in Civ IV and V. In this case, BuchiTaton's ideas above would go a great way to making diffusion a major source of research. I always thought diffusion discounts were a bit weak, but one would have to balance for the erosion of tech monopolies, like Civ IV's tech trading and especially brokering would lead to.​

That said, neither of the above totally clarifies the first example:

For example, England could research 60% of gunpowder, then stop researching gunpowder to start the research of square rigging. Neighbouring France can pick up that remaining 60% to research gunpowder for themselves.

More generally, I kind of like the idea of technologies as competitions. For instance, industrialization could unlock part of the tree as a bottleneck/competition tech. When researched, the top contributor would get a head start at the expense of an early adopter penalty, e.g. worker resistance, lower production, and higher maintenance. Others would unlock the tech 10-30 turns later, but without the penalties and possibly with some random bonus like a free factory. This could apply to several key technologies so every player is guaranteed to "progress" but tech leaders would have to choose whether the penalties are worth the lead.

 

[Putmalk]

This is a cool idea and might emulate what happened in Civ 3 and Civ 4 where AI opponents aggressively tech traded with each other, resulting in everyone having a similar tech level. It might be difficult to balance but could be fun to experiment with in a mod.

 

[Henri Christophe]

Share technology can be cool in a historical perspective, but thinking in a game mechanic I think is not cool, this game is a rush to have your own technology before others. I f I achieve some tech I don't want my neighboor to have it just because he is my neighboor

 

[molst]

These are interesting ideas! And as is often the case, it doesn't have to be an all-in high-risk implementation. A civ could just have some research boosted by the trade network or via religious and cultural ties.

 

[historix69]

AfaIk in Civ 5 a civ could get up to 30 % research discount on a tech already known by other known civs.
Additionally trade routes generated science based on the number of techs one trade partner knew and the other not, however this science was added to the current research project which could be a tech both sides did not know, so imho the implementation was not consistent with the idea of tech spreading.

I would prefer a system were trade routes with and spies in foreign countries would generate a small tech specific research income for techs the other side knows, adding some research points to each foreign tech per turn.

 

[Naokaukodem]

AfaIk in Civ 5 a civ could get up to 30 % research discount on a tech already known by other known civs.
Additionally trade routes generated science based on the number of techs one trade partner knew and the other not, however this science was added to the current research project which could be a tech both sides did not know, so imho the implementation was not consistent with the idea of tech spreading.

I would prefer a system were trade routes with and spies in foreign countries would generate a small tech specific research income for techs the other side knows, adding some research points to each foreign tech per turn.

Isn't it the same with Civ6 ? The more techs they have compared to you, the more beakers your trade routes to them yield ?
Anyway this sort of yield is very anecdotic, to not say ridiculous.

Now a 30% tech discount is sensible, but not sure of the exact conditions (the number of enemies having that tech) in which this works. (maybe only on huge maps with default number of civs ?) And, 30% discount is not enough to excite me, pardon, 30% discount is not enough to catch up.

Anyway, I think that Eurékas, although can be stolen from your enemy in Civ6 (but at what cost ! : build a spies, send him, gather sources, wait again and miserably get killed unless you repeat some of the previous processus to say promote the spy with easier missions, it's simply a waste of time and effort), are well designed as is to reflect a gain of beakers of a tech we don't have but your trade partner has. Say one Euréka by traders by trade mission, to reflect the limited aptitudes of your "traders" (spies). This would be so good.

Additionnally, you could build an Information Department (national wonder) that would have the effect, once completed, to strive beakers from your target(s) for the specific techs they know. Because such means mustn't create diplomatic incidents, it might be just some beakers from each tech, from each target, for each turn. Maybe a special icon would appear if you build this wonder : either you keep being moderated, either you try to pressure your boys at the risk of creating a diplomatic incident that could mutate in war, or worse, global war.

 

[historix69]

In some of the previous Civ games you could build the Great Library Wonder which granted all tech discovered by at least 2 other civs for free.

 

[bene_legionary]

Isn't it the same with Civ6 ? The more techs they have compared to you, the more beakers your trade routes to them yield ?

That's Peter of Russia's ability, a mod by Eps gives the ability to everyone. I think the Research Alliance also gives you science for trade routes.

 

[Naokaukodem]

That's Peter of Russia's ability, a mod by Eps gives the ability to everyone. I think the Research Alliance also gives you science for trade routes.

Yeah a lot of uniques should go for everyone IMO.