Should Civfanatics just make one "Civ V Criticism Thread"?

[Venereus]

Maybe, but those holding a gay pride parade would never schedule that parade at the same place and at the same time as a straight pride parade.

Freedom of speech does not equate to absence of common sense.

"This town is too small for the both of us"? Really?

 

[Jharii]

"This town is too small for the both of us"? Really?

Not what I said nor implied. Please try again.

Let's try it this way... My buddies and I are going out to the park to play a game of baseball. We are not going to play our game of baseball in the same exact spot where a bunch of other people are playing a game of football. We are either going to find another spot or are going to play another time.

If we disregarded common sense and played, the potential for useless confrontation is obvious.

 

[Venereus]

Not what I said nor implied. Please try again.

Alright. Thing is the Civilization 5 Subforum is a small town with one main street (Civ 5 - General Discussions). Wanna do a parade? That's the street you need. Your solution is to make opposite groups parades at different times, but that can't be done since this is the internet. The solution considered in the OP is to have one side make their parade in a smaller street that only their side will notice. Is that fair? No, and that's not even considering that the group being considered to be ghetto'd is incidentally the "negative" group.

Reply to the edit: Baseball and football players are not two distinct groups with conflicting views about the same thing unless they fight over a playing field.

 

[Jharii]

Your solution is to make opposite groups parades at different times, but that can't be done since this is the internet.

No. Please do not twist my words.

My solution is not to MAKE opposite groups parade at different times. My suggestion is that common sense would prevail and the groups would use that common sense to have the parades at different times to avoid any potential conflict.

However, if one or the other group is indeed looking for conflict. Well, you should be able to see what the real cause of the conflict is, right?

Reply to the edit: Baseball and football players are not two distinct groups with conflicting views about the same thing unless they fight over a playing field.

Ah. Now you are beginning to understand.

We're all Civ fans. We're just fighting over the playing field, unnecessarily.

 

[Venereus]

No. Please do not twist my words.

My solution is not to MAKE opposite groups parade at different times. My suggestion is that common sense would prevail and the groups would use that common sense to have the parades at different times to avoid any potential conflict.

Ah. Now you are beginning to understand.

We're all Civ fans. We're just fighting over the playing field, unnecessarily.

And who will choose whose common sense will prevail? How can you decide wich side should give in? You just can't. That's why it's crazy to even consider a subforum for similar points of view (generalizing them as one in the process). Even if we agree this thing is a problem (I'm not so sure yet), segregation is not the solution.

 

[Jharii]

And who will choose whose common sense will prevail? How can you decide wich side should give in? You just can't. That's why it's crazy to even consider a subforum for similar points of view (generalizing them as one in the process).

You are still missing the point. If both sides display common sense and civility, there is no need for one side "to prevail." Both sides work together to find common ground. Both sides win.

It's this "us vs. them" mentality that you are really focused on when it really should be "we are all in this together."

And to answer your question directly as it applies to this forum... that is what the forum moderators do.

 

[Venereus]

You are still missing the point. If both sides display common sense and civility, there is no need for one side "to prevail." Both sides work together to find common ground. Both sides win.

It's this "us vs. them" mentality that you are really focused on when it really should be "we are all in this together."

And to answer your question directly as it applies to this forum... that is what the forum moderators do.

You're missing the point of this thread. This isn't your thread about civil discussion, this is about segregating Civ 5 criticism. And I'm all about fighting segregation. If this was about segregating Civ 5 praise, you'd see me against that too.

 

[klokwerk]

@superjay : you realize you're whining about people whining about people whining, right ?

 

[Jharii]

You're missing the point of this thread. This isn't your thread about civil discussion, this is about segregating Civ 5 criticism. And I'm all about fighting segregation. If this was about segregating Civ 5 praise, you'd see me against that too.

You were the one that brought up the "gay pride parade" and "censorship." I simply followed your lead.

FYI, civility should be practiced in every thread.

 

[C~G]

@superjay : you realize you're whining about people whining about people whining, right ?

Well, there's a weak argument.

Critics of the game are complaining (whining in your language) about the game. Some people are then crying and moaning just about these people.

It's strawman to call then out if you just whine all the time about other posters while some say you are whining.

There's difference between game critics and whining about posters.

Apparently you don't know it.

 

[Venereus]

You were the one that brought up the "gay pride parade" and "censorship." I simply followed your lead.

Well, you tried to find a way around the censorship a Civ 5 Criticism thread/subforum implies by calling common sense into it. I'm yet to be convinced.

FYI, civility should be practiced in every thread.

I know that, no need to be condescending.

 

[Jharii]

Well, you tried to find a way around the censorship a Civ 5 Criticism thread/subforum implies by calling common sense into it. I'm yet to be convinced.

I never once stated that I felt that there should be censorship nor did I ever state that I supported this "one" subforum or thread. On the contrary, as is obvious with what I have posted, I want people to work together regardless of their viewpoint and stance on the subject.

I know that, no need to be condescending.

You're right. My apologies if you felt I was.

 

[Pangur Bán]

Well, there's a weak argument.

Critics of the game are complaining (whining in your language) about the game. Some people are then crying and moaning just about these people.

It's strawman to call then out if you just whine all the time about other posters while some say you are whining.

There's difference between game critics and whining about posters.

Apparently you don't know it.

Indeed. "Whining" connotes impudence and childishness. It suggests those using the term see a profit-making corporation as holding a senior paternal position, with customers as junior and childish; customers cannot be taken seriously when they complain, being inherently childish, and it is the corporation's right to do what it likes. These people are using discourse to undermine the customer voice.

Being themselves customers, it illustrates how fanboi-ism can actually lead people to act against their own interest.

 

[Venereus]

I never once stated that I felt that there should be censorship nor did I ever state that I supported this "one" subforum or thread. On the contrary, as is obvious with what I have posted, I want people to work together regardless of their viewpoint and stance on the subject.

Let's look at the root of the problem. At first glance, it looks like this is about Civ 5 Criticism versus Civ 5 Other Discussion. Wich should not to be confused with Civ 5 Trolling versus Civ 5 Civil Discussion, that is too often mixed up with it.

Now, if we did isolate Civ 5 Criticism, Civ 5 Other Discussion (now turned into hegemonic Civ 5 Discussion) will create the illusion that everyone participating in it "likes" the game, effectively censoring opinions of dislike, since those who don't like it, only say it somewhere else. This leaves naysayers with only two options: you either lead a fony double life, criticizing only in the Criticism forum and looking like you have nothing against Civ 5 in the Normal forum; or you resign yourself to criticizing Civ 5 only in the ghetto with the rest of your kind, keeping your head down, 'cuz if you speak your mind in the wrong place, you'll get busted by the cops--err, mods. Does this sound familiar to you? Is this really like Gay Pride versus Straight Pride? Or is it more like Gay Pride versus Gay Hate?

 

[Jharii]

Let's look at the root of the problem. At first glance, it looks like this is about Civ 5 Criticism versus Civ 5 Other Discussion. Wich should not to be confused with Civ 5 Trolling versus Civ 5 Civil Discussion, that is too often mixed up with it.

Now, if we did isolate Civ 5 Criticism, Civ 5 Other Discussion (now turned into hegemonic Civ 5 Discussion) will create the illusion that everyone participating in it "likes" the game, effectively censoring opinions of dislike, since those who don't like it, only say it somewhere else. This leaves naysayers with only two options: you either lead a fony double life, criticizing only in the Criticism forum and looking like you have nothing against Civ 5 in the Normal forum; or you resign yourself to criticizing Civ 5 only in the ghetto with the rest of your kind, keeping your head down, 'cuz if you speak your mind in the wrong place, you'll get busted by the cops--err, mods. Does this sound familiar to you?

Look who's condescending now...

You are making a lot of assumptions and a long stretch to try to prove some kind of point, all based upon your personal bias towards what you think I am trying to say, which could not be further from the truth. And really, comparing this to some kind of gay pride vs. gay hate issue, you seriously need to take a long walk. How about a little perspective, man?

Let me say it again, I never once claimed that there should be a separate forum/thread for those who dislike the game. I voted that there should not be, as a matter of fact.

Just for clarification since you brought it up... People that are complete asshats and display a persistence of trolling/flaming/derogation do have a different place to post. It's called "not here" in the form of suspension and/or banning. And this has nothing to do with preventing you from speaking your mind, it has to do with HOW you speak your mind. Some people simply don't have the capacity to do this without it being at the expense of others.

 

[Venereus]

Look who's condescending now...

You are making a lot of assumptions and a long stretch to try to prove some kind of point, all based upon your personal bias towards what you think I am trying to say, which could not be further from the truth. And really, comparing this to some kind of gay pride vs. gay hate issue, you seriously need to take a long walk. How about a little perspective, man?

Let me say it again, I never once claimed that there should be a separate forum/thread for those who dislike the game. I voted that there should not be, as a matter of fact.

Just for clarification since you brought it up... People that are complete asshats and display a persistence of trolling/flaming/derogation do have a different place to post. It's called "not here" in the form of suspension and/or banning. And this has nothing to do with preventing you from speaking your mind, it has to do with HOW you speak your mind. Some people simply don't have the capacity to do this without it being at the expense of others.

I said:

A lot of people are more than tired of gay pride parades, doesn't make it right to censor them though.

And you replied:

Maybe, but those holding a gay pride parade would never schedule that parade at the same place and at the same time as a straight pride parade.
Freedom of speech does not equate to absence of common sense.

It's true, you never claimed that there should be a separate forum/thread for those who dislike the game, you claimed there should be a separate time for those who dislike the game, and that their common sense should dictate that their Freedom of Speech be exercised whenever is more convenient for those who may not like what they say. I'm sorry to break this to you, but that's censorship.

 

[Jharii]

It's true, you never claimed that there should be a separate forum/thread for those who dislike the game, you claimed there should be a separate time for those who dislike the game, and that their common sense should dictate that their Freedom of Speech be exercised whenever is more convenient for those who may not like what they say. I'm sorry to break this to you, but that's censorship.

Is that what I suggested? You really need to slow down and stop worrying about being wrong and actually apply some logic to what was being discussed.

I suggested a different time for the analogy that YOU started, based upon how to groups of people with differing viewpoints can get together and work things out. And yet you want to take the literal solutions of that example to say that it applies literally to the topic?

Are you seriously expecting me to believe that is what you thought I was saying? The complete point of the analogy was that we both can occupy the same place when everone works together and treats each other civilly and there is no need for segregation.

Sorry, man. But I am done having this discussion with you before you start implying that I am a racist, too.

Perspective. Catch it.

 

[Venereus]

Is that what I suggested? You really need to slow down and stop worrying about being wrong and actually apply some logic to what was being discussed.

I suggested a different time for the analogy that YOU started, based upon how to groups of people with differing viewpoints can get together and work things out.

And yet you want to take the literal solutions of that example to say that it applies literally to the topic?

Are you seriously expecting me to believe that is what you thought I was saying?

My analogy was Gay Pride Parades versus people who don't want them to see them happening, wich is pretty fitting to a thread about creating a thread that would allow people to not see Civ 5 criticism. Your analogy was Gay Pride Parades versus Straight Pride Parade conflicting about occupying the same space and time, wich other than "Gay Pride Parade" has nothing to do with my analogy. If you wanted to talk about how two groups of people with differing viewpoints can get together and work things out, why did you reply to a post about free speech and even said something about it? Why didn't you say that in the first place with an unrelated post, probably in another thread too? Since you didn't do any of that, I assumed our analogies had something to do with each other, and in order for that to make sense, the most likely explanation was that you thought a Straight Pride Parade is something that doesn't agree with a Gay Pride Parade (wich is not the case), couple that with your proposed "solution", and from then on you were speaking censorship to me.