Should I build King RichCrusade?

[Prof. Garfield]

I have recently started a D game and I am wondering whether I should build King RichCrusade? I was lucky enough to get abundant amounts of early trade and many starting techs, and now I am building Cope's in my SSC (Nottingham size 6). No one is building Cope's and I don't think that anyone even has Astronomy. Should I switch to King Rich and then build Cope's after?

By the way, this is my first post, though I found this website just before the new year. Thanks,
Prof. Garfield

 

[Ace]

Finish Cope's, and then build King Richard's. By using caravans you can finish Cope's before you discover Engineering, thus increasing your science faster. After Nottingham finishes Cope's, you will have time to put in an aquaduct to allow growth, than start King Richard's.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

Thanks a lot!! I'll wait untill Monday to see if someone else has any input. I was thinking of building Rich's first to cut down on the time of then building Cope's. But I supose that caravans can build a wonder pretty fast anyway. I havent build King Rich since King, but Nottingham is decent sise and King Rich hasn't even bin started, so I thought that I might be able to get other wonders faster; and caravans (and Not. has Col, so the caravans will pay more).

 

[mangor420]

king richards is a production aid so you never want it in a science city plus it only works in one city . it is a waste of shields in my opinion.inless you are so far ahead you are getting every wonder but if that is the case you should start fighting earlier.

 

[ElephantU]

KingRich is of greatest benefit if it is build very early and Indust takes a while. It provides a production powerhouse city early enough that not enough pollution techs are active yet. But it is dependent upon the size of the city for max usefulness; size 6 is not really worth it, unless you are on an island or isthmus with little production. KRC should really be combined with Shakespeares Theatre and the city maxed in size with WLTCD. KRC can be a boon to an SSC as long as there is at least one unblocked commodity. With a maxed size of 21-23+ you should be doing 25-30 shields per turn, so a caravan can be pumped out every other turn. Combine that with a good ship-chain and you will be swimming in techs and gold.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

I know that size 6 isn't that great, but I thought that that was the only city that could grow enough to make it worthwile. I guess I'll build Cope's and work from there. Thanks for the input.

 

[la fayette]

Prof.

KRC expires quite soon (that 's why most players never build it).
Suppose it lasts 45 turns in your game. In a city size 6, KRC brings you 7*45 = 315 shields (which means it hardly pays for itself).
But if you follow Elephant's advice and build it in a city that you manage to grow to size 20, then it can bring you up to about 21*45 = 945 shields, and that's a bargain

 

[ElephantU]

To grow the city significantly you need Republic, Construction, Banking and Sanitation techs. You will need to put in a Temple, a MarketPlace, a Colosseum, and an Aquaduct to WLTCD up to size 12, and add a Bank, Sewers and some other happiness improvement (either Cathedral or Shakes) to get up to around 20. Don't forget to factor in the cost of the improvements you will need to use KRC effectively.

The other significant use of KRC is when your SSC has more than half of its tiles in the Ocean. KRC is a great substitute for Offshore Platforms, which appear too late to help an important city like the SSC through the mid game. Again, though, I would say that if the city is less than size 12 it is probably not worth it.

 

[Old n Slow]

If you follow ElephantU's advice and build a super science city (by having all of the city specific wonders (Shake’s, Cope’s, Colossus, Isaac’s and sometimes Hanging Gardens) and appropriate infrastructure) the question becomes -- does KRC make sense?

Once the city is ‘full up”, KRC will generate an extra 20 shields/turn. Since Engineering could be achieved as early as tech #26, and Industrialization as tech #53, one has 27 turns of use, assuming a tech per turn (of course your mileage may vary.)

I like KRC, and so much so that I’ll often delay Industrialization a bit. Even if the trade routes get blocked, the SSC can crank out food camels for the next set of wonders (Mikes. Leo’s, Isaac’s & Magellans) -- and the game seems so much easier & less cash constrained. Also during this era, your government may be Republic (translation: shield poor) for much of this time & Democracy for much of the rest (translation: also shield poor) -- making KRC relatively more attractive.

But keep in mind La Fayette’s cautions -- this Wonder (and Cope’s as well) is much less valuable without Shakes, and less if placed in a city less than full size. -- Also, if by chance you’re able to generate a tech per turn from great trades, the six camels for KRC could have been the opportunity cost of two to three techs; and if so the need/value of KRC is less.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

I know most of the stuff that was written by the Old and Slow ElephantU, Fayette etc. I didn't build KRC, though I found a great spot for Shakes. I'll attach my latest save, and I'd appriciate any advice. Thanks.

 

[Stegyre]

Originally posted by Old n Slow
I like KRC, and so much so that I’ll often delay Industrialization a bit.

I'm not sure I follow your reasoning, OnS: you like KRC so much, that you delay the tech that would allow you to do something comparable in all of your cities? Okay, that overstates the effect of factories a little: KRC give +1 shield per pop. +1 (for the "home" tile"), so unless you have a lot of shield specials or forests, you probably get more production out of KRC than out of a factory. Still, you can build factories everywhere, while you can only enjoy KRC in one city, and what are you going to do with all the gp generated by tech-a-turn caravan deliveries if you're not rushbuilding factories? (Okay, you're probably rushbuilding wonders.)

 

[Prof. Garfield]

I forgot. KRC provides more than 21 extra shields during the small window between RR and Indust, if you have railroads in the proper places.

 

[la fayette]

Prof.

Quick look at your 'dd.sav'.
Your two main mistakes:
1) Build Shakespeare in Birmingham, a city built on a hill and probably difficult to grow (instead of Nottingham where it would have been VERY useful)
2) Running at 20% lux: this is a waste. You should either run at 0% or at a higher rate enabling several cities to celebrate and grow.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

I build shakes on the hill because I play Democracy and that had the greatist potential for production. If I need to, I can always use caravans to boost its growth...
As for the lux, I usualy run them at 30 in the late game, but I will consider running them higher now. I am used to HG, though I don't build it any more, so I supose that highr lux is nessesary.
Thanks.

 

[ElephantU]

Originally posted by Old n Slow
Once the city is ‘full up”, KRC will generate an extra 20 shields/turn. Since Engineering could be achieved as early as tech #26, and Industrialization as tech #53, one has 27 turns of use, assuming a tech per turn (of course your mileage may vary.)

Not very likely you will be getting a tech per turn before SuperHighways or ResearchLabs, unless you have a good sized empire with piles of long-distance caravan deliveries. Best I've been able to do in the Eng-Ind range is 2-4 turns per tech, and that is with an early Copes (which puts off the building of KRC). So you are looking at 50-100 turns (assuming your tech plan is correct - it seems a little stretched).

The challenge to me when I get Eng early enough is to decide on the order of building Wonders. It is often around the time I get Med or Ast, so Shakes and Copes are the competitors, and sometimes I have neglected Colossus as well.

 

[funxus]

Stegyre, there's also the pollution to think of that comes with industrialization... Unless you have HD, a factory won't give that much anyway.

IIRC Starlifter always talked about KRC as a free Mass Transit (or some other pollution improvement?) in his pollution threads.

 

[Stegyre]

Funxus:
Granting that, a person who delays Industrialization to prolong KRC is still sacrificing a 50% production increase in multiple cities for improved production in one city. There may be reasons for doing this: (1) you don't have a lot of cities, so what you would gain with factories doesn't really outweigh what you'll lose from KRC (I like running 3-city civs, so this would probably be true of my own situation, although there are so many other wonders I want that I have only ever built KRC once); (2) you have only one large city (with KRC), so again you would lose more shields than you would gain; or (3) you are cash-strapped, so you cannot rush build a lot of factories (in that case, I'd drop science and raise taxes so I could time the acquisition of industrialization with the ability to buy the factories.

As for pollution, I never have that much trouble with it, myself. The most pollution-prone city still will not generate more than one pollution tile per turn (at least in my experience). Two engineers are sufficient to instantly clean that up.

 

[ElephantU]

Indust is a pollution-triggering tech (as are Auto, MassProd, and Plastics), and often triggers negative movement in AI Attitudes. Be wary when you pass the threshold, and try to avoid gifting it to the AI (they ALWAYS switch to Communism to kill Marco Polo!).

 

[la fayette]

I bow in front of the very recently promoted EMPEROR

 

[Stegyre]

Originally posted by la fayette
I bow in front of the very recently promoted EMPEROR

Hm, is the appropriate form of obeissance waveys or worshippers?