Should ranged units make an automatic counter attack when they are attacked?

[Pep]

I think ranged attacks are a bit overpowered now, especially in naval combat. If you have a big navy near an AI's navy and you declare war first, you can decimate most of it in your turn, so no real counter attack is possible.

To avoid this, I propose an easy solution: let an AI ship make an automatic counter attack in your turn, the first time it's attacked by ranged fire. If you make a second ranged attack against the AI ship in the same turn, it should not counter attack.

What do you think about this?

 

[Mirando]

The problem isn't that ships or other ranged units can be decimated in one turn by other ranged units, its their positioning in relation to each other to begin with.
The AI shouldn't position units near enough for them to get decimated by a players or AI's units if it suspects an attack. But I suspect that's too much to ask for.

 

[janboruta]

Yes for naval battles like in Civ IV (including increased firing range of battleships, destroyers). No for simultaneous ranged combat on land.

 

[Tantor]

I`m not sure it it is possible, but i think all ranged units that haven`t fired or used up their movement in their previous turn should counterfire when attacked. They simply go into an "overwatch mode", like fighter units. I think it should be same for land and sea units.

 

[Arilian]

It is not much of an issue, except of the Nuke Missiles IMHO.

Nuke silos are designed to be able to counterattack in any scenerio, not loosing all of the nukes that stored in the city centre..

Anyway it would be ok for me.

 

[Pep]

I`m not sure it it is possible, but i think all ranged units that haven`t fired or used up their movement in their previous turn should counterfire when attacked. They simply go into an "overwatch mode", like fighter units. I think it should be same for land and sea units.

IMO even units that have fired the last turn should be able to retaliate. Anyway your suggested overwatch mode for ranged units seems a very interesting idea!

 

[apocalypse105]

The problem with naval combat that there are no different units yes different strenght bot no different abilities...

To make it more interesting they should have made 2 difference ships:

Range Ships For example the battleship

And melee ships destroyer and submarine...


For renaissance and classic
range ship: frigate
Melee ship: , caravel ,tireme


just like land units

Melee ships should get the same flaking bonusses like land units If you have 2 caravels next to 1 one onemy caraval you can get a bonus And they should add a new terain feature "reefs" where ships get a defence bonus or a penalty defence dont know what is the best and reallistic

 

[Camikaze]

Eh, this is kinda the point with ranged units. That's how they get their advantage. If they were to return fire at other ranged units, then both would be more useless in comparison to regular melee units.

Also, turn based structure. That's what the game is, so although it can have drawbacks in terms of getting hit by a first strike, the point is to be vigilant of such a threat.

 

[Deggial]

I don't think, counter attacks for range units would be against the idea of a turn based game in general or CiV in special.

It happens all day long in meele combat and even airplanes get at least one point of damage during their attack. They'll still have their advantage against meele units.

So, range units attacking other range units (land or sea) could very well be targeted by a counter attack.
At least for land units, it would not happen at all circumstances anyway: For example if one unit is placed on a hill and a forest lies between this unit and it's target.

If wanted, the ability to counter attack could be given as new promotion. (And, when already beeing in the mood of introducing new promotions, what about a revival for first strike?)

 

[ElephantRider]

disregard... can't figure out how to delete it

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

As long as the ship returning fire is still constrained to its range limitations, then it sounds good. IE your battleship with 3 range attacks enemy destroyer with 2 range => enemy destroyer cannot return fire.

This would actually encourage diversity in naval ship building. You would want to build a couple of submarines to specifically attack enemy battleships (since they cannot retaliate against a unit they cannot see), build battleships to seek out enemy destroyers, and destroyers to protect against enemy submarines.

As of now, I basically stick to building battleships only. Strong units with long range and I have yet to have problems with AI submarine-spamming.

 

[Vladesch]

Easy fix is not to allow war dec until you have moved all your units.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Easy fix is not to allow war dec until you have moved all your units.

Then the enemy would have the upper hand as they would have first strike capability. Since the player is the aggressor, the first strike is the player's honor.

 

[ViterboKnight]

Then the enemy would have the upper hand as they would have first strike capability. Since the player is the aggressor, the first strike is the player's honor.

Mmmm, i'm not sure, but it might be interesting.
After all, attacker is surely well prepared for war, while defender is not.
This "defender moves first" stuff might make war more interesting (think twice before declaring!), although maybe a bit unrealistic.

I`m not sure it it is possible, but i think all ranged units that haven`t fired or used up their movement in their previous turn should counterfire when attacked. They simply go into an "overwatch mode", like fighter units. I think it should be same for land and sea units.

I also like the "interrupt" concept. If you move and go close to a new previously unrevealed enemy unit, then that unit (if with some remaining MPs) automatically counter attacks. The basic concept is fine, but the exact mechanic is to be worked out carefully.

 

[Montov]

I like the suggestion of Tantor, but right now the defender already has a lot of advantages.
Maybe limit it to 1 or 2HP in that case.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Attackers should have an advantage; games need to start, move along and end. In a free-for-all, players need to be encouraged to be proactive, otherwise everyone will hold on forever because they don't want to weaken themselves.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

I like the suggestion of Tantor, but right now the defender already has a lot of advantages.
Maybe limit it to 1 or 2HP in that case.

I second this. If there is to be a counter attack, it should definitely be limited to 1 or 2 hp.

This added with the requirement for obeying the range constraints would make the naval counterattack a viable feature.

 

[jtb1127]

I do not think so. I think they're ranged ability should come with a disadvantage.