Should units be fully healed upon upgrade ? (Vote)

[HixBozo]

Simple vote. Yes or No. Adds strategy to the game or breaks the game ?

 

[Solic]

I would imagine AI would have difficulty employing such strategies.

 

[HixBozo]

I guess so. Human players can exploit such tactics very nicely but the AI might struggle to use it advantageously, e.g. heal/upgrade at the right time. One such tactics would for example be to "chain wars" into a winning streak.

But...why not ? I am only a human

 

[XSamatan]

I'm for a compromise:
Units are getting healed after an upgrade, yet the amount of received healing depends on level. A low level unit (which will get new levels fast) shall receive less HP than a veteran unit (as this unit took more fights to gain XP).

Regards
XSamatan

 

[Tekamthi]

i'd go for a "units can only upgrade when at full hp" option maybe, but otherwise i'm on team "no", as i don't like the idea of inadvertently healing a unit to full by attacking it

 

[Stalker0]

It’s a cool idea. If if was a mod mod I’d try it. But I dont think it needs to be a core change, as it’s more a preference than a real balance need at this point

 

[HixBozo]

It is not very realistic by the way. You have a unit from another era, which gets a well deserved tech upgrade in the next era. To expect that a spearman from the Ancient era is still wounded when he transforms into a pikeman some 200 years later he is still wounded is very unrealistic.

It is very natural to expect to fully heal upon upgrade. I am surprised many people voted with no, unless some of them were confused what an upgrade means. Not a heal upon promotion, but upon tech upgrade, e.g. from swordsman into tercio.

I think many people voted with No because they thought an upgrade to mean a promotion. I would have voted with No myself, but I meant a tech upgrade not a promotion upgrade.

 

[phantomaxl1207]

They can receive 1 turn's worth of healing, not full health.

 

[HixBozo]

Here is a controversial effect of the lack of unit heal on tech upgrade.

Imagine you have a horsemen. Gets wounded but you lose your horse supply and he cannot heal. So you put him to the side and don't use him for a long time because he is badly wounded. Then several eras later you can upgrade the horse into a tank.

And he upgrades to a wounded tank some 2000 years later ?

 

[Stalker0]

To expect that a spearman from the Ancient era is still wounded when he transforms into a pikeman some 200 years later he is still wounded is very unrealistic..

I mean the whole notion of unit upgrades is completely unrealistic to begin with. The idea that you could even have units 2 or 3 eras behind the times is pretty nuts. But civs mechanics try to balance that gameplay and reasonability.

I do not think this should be a core change....its doesn't bring anything to the table from a balance standpoint, and some people are going to like it, some are not. Such preferences are perfect for Mod Mods....and like I said before, I would try this one if it came out. But the realism of upgrades I don't think is a strong argument for this adjustment.

 

[Recursive]

i'd go for a "units can only upgrade when at full hp" option maybe, but otherwise i'm on team "no", as i don't like the idea of inadvertently healing a unit to full by attacking it

THIS. I hated when units in vanilla healed fully on promotion and I would hate this too. It's cheap.

Here is a controversial effect of the lack of unit heal on tech upgrade.

Imagine you have a horsemen. Gets wounded but you lose your horse supply and he cannot heal. So you put him to the side and don't use him for a long time because he is badly wounded. Then several eras later you can upgrade the horse into a tank.

And he upgrades to a wounded tank some 2000 years later ?

My longstanding opinion is that gameplay should trump (I hate this word now) be a superior consideration over realism when it comes to game balance.

I don't think this is much more unrealistic than a unit still being injured after several hundred years (a few turns in the early eras).

 

[HixBozo]

It can be exploited by humans. Probably is a mod-mod territory, like Red Death in Civ6, something for fun.

 

[Tekamthi]

Somehow I conflated promos and upgrades, my bad. Maybe heal to full in some situational scenarios could work, like if in a city? I think op is somewhat correct re the realism attached to upgrades, but I don't find it that much more believable that a unit with a couple dozen nearly beaten horse riders remaining in it somehow become a full strength tank squad, for the same price as a full health unit might. I kinda like the idea of only upgrading if full HP to work around this concern, and stop mid-battlefield upgrades, though this is somewhat off topic

 

[HixBozo]

I begin to think that it is better not even on tech upgrade. Because humans can exploit this. A human can see this coming and tactically withdraw to upgrade and heal and unleash devastating attack on the next turn. But the AI cannot look into the future, it only lives in the present time and it cannot devise such a plan. This feature would be a human exploit

 

[HixBozo]

Sometimes the devs try hard to make the AI smart but it is hard job. AI is only as smart as humans can tell it to be. These devs at least try harder than Firaxis team. Still has many issues but that is mainly due to understaffing and money. The question is why Firaxis didn't do these fixes with tons of money.

 

[vyyt]

Well, it is not 1 wounded spearman. It's a unit, a batalion of several hundreds of soldiers. Their numbers were reduced in a battle and now they are being equipped with new weapons - pikes. I find it more realistic and less gamey than healing upon upgrade.

 

[HixBozo]

The vote is overwhelmingly negative. I suspected issues, knew it leads to exploits. It is probably not a good idea to have exploit mechanics in a balanced version. There is nothing bad about exploits, they are fun but in a balanced version better be avoided. I concurr

 

[Tekamthi]

just for the sake of discussion along the lines of op idea (albeit maybe the opposite)... what if upgraded unit suffered some temp penalty, like an x turn malus promo... i find the realism issue more jarring that a unit can so quickly become fully proficient with a new set of weapons... especially in the horses to tanks scenario, maybe less so in the spears to pikes

is there not some human-favoring exploit in being able to upgrade a front-line unit (assuming we're defending), and thus throw off the unit mix the AI had prepared for their attack?

 

[Delvemor]

I voted no. That mechanic would be cheesy and highly exploitable. Even if it was acceptable it would difficult for the AI to use it properly, which is considered to be an issue for many people.

Edit: I bet the healing promotion has been removed from VP for a good reason too. A significant number of your troops got injured or killed in battle, it should take time to make them heal or to train new recruits to replenish that unit.