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[GS] Show Yield in HUD Ribbon. Is it cheating?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Mahi, Aug 26, 2020.

  1. hazarius_a

    hazarius_a Chieftain Supporter

    Mar 3, 2020
    Personally I think it's not cheating at all. Although the AI is not very smart in general, it can have its moments. Especially at high difficulty levels (immortal or deity) on huge map settings, the ribbon is quite helpful for the human player on where to focus your actions. The early aggression from one of your neighbors is almost guaranteed. But with this tool you can influence if the actual DOW really happens (build up military or block enemy units paths) or even from whom (work to please so. agenda while deliberately ignore others...).
    As already stated: The AI uses this information all the time to evaluate its actions. Its only fair that a human player has at least the same data for evaluation at a glance. However: I like the idea to attach the information depth on diplomatic visibility, scouting, spying etc. That would bring an extra layer into the game which is quite interesting for the more advanced player.
  2. oSiyeza

    oSiyeza Prince

    Sep 27, 2013
    The problem is not the hud, is the AI.

    And in particular the design choices made by Fxs.

    I will explain it, Fxs thinks that the AI should have the same knowledge the player has. And they think that makes the game fair by definition.

    However, they forgot a pretty basic thing. The player has knowledge about how the game works from previous matches, that the AI does not have. Also the player has knowledge about the AI that the AI does not have about the player.

    As a result is very easy for the player to avoid war by messing with the AI decission algorithm, and even worse, Fxs has not added any contextual situation to decission making such as the most basic: where are the units of the player and what are they doing? What type of units and what tech level they are?... This is information the player can infer, but the AI cant, cause codding inferences is hard. And giving the AI some direct info would be cheating, that without even considering that the player can reload a game with the knowledge of having played that scenario before...

    Basically, what i want to say is that the design choice of making the AI rely only on the info presented by the interface, but at the same time bend the rules to give it bonus, is just... well. Stupid.

    This is an example on how you do it, you give the AI info from the surroundings of the locations of its units. Information they should be able to mostly infer, while removing the need of the AI of actually doing it. Then you add these knowledge into the logic, so the AI is able for example to send units to scout enemy territory to obtain info on the units near the territory in that instant. without the need to actually make any calculus. Then, the AI uses that info in their military decission making.

    That AI has technically cheated, but it has cheated in a sensible way to overcome the drawbacks of being an AI.

    Fxs has directly shot themselves on the feet. By designing a "fair" AI, they constrained themselves to make a stupid one.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020
    Equilin likes this.

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