Civ II was easy to mod yes, but the moddding power of civ 2 was very low. We're not talking of the same thing. Even civ 2 ToT, which had a much better modding power than Civ2 wasn't close to being able to do a tenth of what you can do in Civ IV. I couldn't ever have written my map scripts in civ 2 for instance. It was impossible to prevent barbs from spawning on ice, to add a card game inside civ2 or to change the user interface like BUG did. This power must remain. It doesn't mean there can't be a simple editor for simple things.
Sid Meier's Civilization
- Thread starter Naokaukodem
- Start date
volbound1700
Emperor
I agree with your post LDICesare, make easier mode but keep other features,... it is just Civ IV makes it very hard to mod without spending a lot of time. I think that is why there is a lot less scenarios/mods out there for Civ IV.
Che Guava
The Juicy Revolutionary
Yes. This!
Loved to make simple little scenarios in civII, but by the time it got to IV, I didn't have the time (or more accurately, the interest) in learning the ins and outs of how to modify units, civics, etc and set up maps with large civilizations already set up. I know I have no right to complain about using XML or python (I know they're 'easy') but I'd accept a simple editor for all my simple little stuff!
One problem though is they add some 'features' that make modding harder. 3d units for instance. Leaderheads are also a real pain. Making a new leader, even if you don't want to change the graphics, is a real pain in civ IV when it really should be just picking a name, a graphic asset and setting a few traits in either a single file or through a user interface.
volbound1700
Emperor
Actually LDiCesare I really never edit leaderheads much. I thought Civ III did a good job of placing them in the map anyways.
I mostly want one where I can edit the names of civs, set-up the map, maybe tweak around the techs and units (for example make English be only civ that can build Longbowmen which I did on Civ III Mongol scn I made) and add a few units.
I usually use most the stuff that already came with the games in my mods... although I loved making fantasy and space scns for Civ II.
For example on my Rise of Rome scn I made it where certain units could only be built by certain civs to keep it accurate
For example Hoplites could only be built by the Achaean Greeks, Aetolian Greeks, Ptolemic Egypt, Seleucian Empire, Macedonians, Thracians, and Pontus.
War Elephant could only be built by Carthage, Parthia, Seleucian Empire, Palymra, etc.
I use Immortals as a unit only Parthia and Palmyra could make, made it to where only certain civs could build Ancient Calvary, etc.
I mostly want one where I can edit the names of civs, set-up the map, maybe tweak around the techs and units (for example make English be only civ that can build Longbowmen which I did on Civ III Mongol scn I made) and add a few units.
I usually use most the stuff that already came with the games in my mods... although I loved making fantasy and space scns for Civ II.
For example on my Rise of Rome scn I made it where certain units could only be built by certain civs to keep it accurate
For example Hoplites could only be built by the Achaean Greeks, Aetolian Greeks, Ptolemic Egypt, Seleucian Empire, Macedonians, Thracians, and Pontus.
War Elephant could only be built by Carthage, Parthia, Seleucian Empire, Palymra, etc.
I use Immortals as a unit only Parthia and Palmyra could make, made it to where only certain civs could build Ancient Calvary, etc.
Yes, it's kind of astonishing how it was easier to mod unique units for civ2 rathar than for civ4 even though there was no UU concept in the game.
A "copy unit" tool which you can then use to start from would really help - again, either through a user interface or text commands, like #copyspr and #copystats in Dominions, which respectively copy all the graphics and all the stats of another unit, then allow you to edit additional stuff without having to write everything back. Also great when you don't have to modify all your modded warriors who are only different in one parameter and you change anohter one on the base unit...
A "copy unit" tool which you can then use to start from would really help - again, either through a user interface or text commands, like #copyspr and #copystats in Dominions, which respectively copy all the graphics and all the stats of another unit, then allow you to edit additional stuff without having to write everything back. Also great when you don't have to modify all your modded warriors who are only different in one parameter and you change anohter one on the base unit...
volbound1700
Emperor
Actually I was talking about Civ III LDiCesare but yeah Civ 2 had a very advanced unit editor... in fact I thought Civ2's unit editor was almost perfect really.
I would still play Civ 2 actually a lot if not for the poor AIs (Civ 3 and Civ 4 had a lot harder AIs) and the 7 Civilization limit. I also thought the cultural borders and uu plus ub was a huge upgrade. As this thread mentions, other areas where not a big upgrade. Civ2 had better (and more historically accurate) scenarios than the other two. Rise of Rome scenarios for both Civ III and Civ IV are dissappointing... where are the diadochi kingdoms? WTH is Persia still doing in the game, didn't Alexander crush them. Egypt was ruled by the Ptolemys and should have a Greek feel. Why is there a Greek civ that owns Macedonia, Achia, and Asia. Shouldn't they be split up into Macedonian, Achaean League, and the other Greek leagues/city-states. Where is Thrace, Numidia, Pontus, etc.?
Then there is the Civ IV Charlemagne scenario where the Saxons are in Poland and Bohemia is like in Russia (way off geographically) or the Crossroad of the World scenario which had the coastal city of Antioch way inland and butchered geography.
I really thought Midgard, Jihad - Rise of Islam, Crusades, Napoleon, Mars, Dinosaur, etc. scenarios for Civ II rocked.
I would still play Civ 2 actually a lot if not for the poor AIs (Civ 3 and Civ 4 had a lot harder AIs) and the 7 Civilization limit. I also thought the cultural borders and uu plus ub was a huge upgrade. As this thread mentions, other areas where not a big upgrade. Civ2 had better (and more historically accurate) scenarios than the other two. Rise of Rome scenarios for both Civ III and Civ IV are dissappointing... where are the diadochi kingdoms? WTH is Persia still doing in the game, didn't Alexander crush them. Egypt was ruled by the Ptolemys and should have a Greek feel. Why is there a Greek civ that owns Macedonia, Achia, and Asia. Shouldn't they be split up into Macedonian, Achaean League, and the other Greek leagues/city-states. Where is Thrace, Numidia, Pontus, etc.?
Then there is the Civ IV Charlemagne scenario where the Saxons are in Poland and Bohemia is like in Russia (way off geographically) or the Crossroad of the World scenario which had the coastal city of Antioch way inland and butchered geography.
I really thought Midgard, Jihad - Rise of Islam, Crusades, Napoleon, Mars, Dinosaur, etc. scenarios for Civ II rocked.
