Sid Spaceship Game

[Own]

I doubt this holds. Most civs may know many of the other civs, but I doubt all. I can't tell on this map or Sid maps in general, but I believe I've sold a contact or two on standard pangea Deity maps, and I know I've sold several contacts on Deity Huge *true* pangea maps.

On Sid huge maps, MapStat will be a total mess. Only a couple of the civs will know each other, and one may have The Republic and Engineering while another has Monarchy, Feudalism and Engineering while another has just Monarchy but not Construction or Currency, and another has all three first tier MA techs and The Republic. So none of them are monopolies to you, but they can be sold as monopolies to other AIs. With a situation like this, you can get every tech for free and empty every AI's treasury and gpt. Nothing like this could possibly happen here. Every time we want a tech or two, we'll have to commit our entire economy and not expect much in return except for the benefits of the new technology.

I was never against going after the GL. My indifference was about just trading it to the Aztecs. I mean, where would we be now if we had just traded it to the Aztecs? They probably wouldn't have built it anyway since they were fighting a war, would have traded it to other civs, and the Arabs would have built it anyway. We wouldn't be in a republic or the Middle ages right now. The Arabs having it isn't bad. We could get it from them without any danger to our civilization.

Whether to research or simply horde cash is not really a question. We're investing commerce to the same goal, and it doesn't really matter. But whether to horde cash/research or spend our cash is a question. We could really use some buildings being rushed, but we could also use spare cash for trading opportunities and/or steals. I really don't have an answer for that.

 

[Bucephalus]

.

Overall, I feel very frustrated by our tech situation. We had a plan that I thought we all had agreed on (Own and I seemed enthusiastic at the time and no one else seemed to say much)... that we try to get a near-by neighbor to build the Great Library for us, so we could capture without too much difficulty. But, we didn't even attempt that plan, and canned it last minute. I still wanted to try that plan, Own had second thoughts, but I thought he felt indifferent, I. Larkin didn't like it (since he canned it), and I can't tell about Bucephalus's opinion. In other words, we didn't have a consensus either way... so far as I can tell. I'd rather play this as a team game than just hand off saves every X turns.

I thought I made my view very clear; when the question was posed, "should we gift Lit to the Aztecs, in the hope that they build the GL", I said this:

I would trade it around; I really don't see Aztecs keeping it, more likely they will use it to get out of the war with Shaka - remember, they have lost three towns and a lot of units, and now they are dog-piled.

Also, now they have a fresh adversary, I can't see them committing a town to building it.

However, I do agree with your desire for more communication in an attempt to reach consensus: in fact, anyone who has played a SG with me will tell you that's how I like to do things. It is for precisely this reason that I've held back from playing today.

And as far as I can see, we still have no clear consensus on research.

 

[Spoonwood]

We're investing commerce to the same goal, and it doesn't really matter. But whether to horde cash/research or spend our cash is a question.

Not with multipler buildings. I see more libraries going up than markets.

I don't think that we have chance to trade Eng for something as we will not have monopoly (I think).

Even if we don't have a monopoly, no doubt, *fewer* tribes will know Engineering than Feudalism. I see even the Celts beating us to Feudalism, meaning everyone will know it. If there exists one or two tribes which don't know Engineering when we do, we can trade it away *for something* (like part of Feudalism) once we learn Engineering. We won't have the ability to do that with Feudalism, and something>nothing.

 

[Own]

I like Spoon's reasoning. I'm in favor of going for Engineering.

 

[Spoonwood]

As a note to keep in mind for later... remember that if we know we have civ X trespassing in our territory, we can turn taxes to 100%, buy a tech or two for gpt, then tell the tribe to "leave or declare" and get the tech and war happiness for free. Then we can readjust the luxury slider.

 

[Own]

Of course. They'd have to not be a neighbor, but that's definitely the correct move by a lot.

 

[I. Larkin]

Of course. They'd have to not be a neighbor, but that's definitely the correct move by a lot.

First we have make he/she furious. Then ask remove or declare. Now our gpt can not buy Feudalism, but with Marketplace it may work. That's why I start Marketplace in 001. we need some libs for culture, but may reconsider.
I don't know what is better Feo or Eng. I'd stay with Feo but it may turn out that Eng will be better for trade. But that mean, that we will invest to research a lot. What Sci%? Really if we capture TGL it does not matter. What is important now is cash and MWs. The more the better.
Do we have a consensus about next City (silk)? Harbor (route for silk)? War plan with Aztecs (GW first)? Scout by galleys?

 

[Bucephalus]

Or might we be better putting beakers into Engineering,?

I like the idea of researching Engineering..

I like Spoon's reasoning. I'm in favor of going for Engineering.

Sorry, Ivan, but based on these comments I figured we had at least a majority, and I have already played five turns prior to your post, with research set to Engineering.

Here is the situation:

We are 18 turns away from learning Engineering, fewer as libraries come on line; however it has just been learned by two tribes (Mongols and IIRC, Inca).

We have captured Teayo, and it's harbour is intact, so I changed the build at Oil Springs to a library.

We are building up a nice force of MW; however, I am reluctant to commit them to an attack on Tenochtitlan at present because the Aztec core is proving resilient. I have watched a steady stream of Incan maces die against Aztec walls, and the Zulu are only engaging their forces in ones or twos, so are having similar luck. To reach Tenochtitlan, our MWs would have to push into Aztec territory first, and with a defence of 1 they would be vulnerable to attack long before they reached it. Instead, I am waiting to see if the Inca - or the newly arriving Japs - can make some headway first.

I did not attempt to settle the silks; Spoons, myself, and to a lesser extent Own, had doubts about this. Instead I settled the spot which we were holding with a MW, which I think we can find better uses for.

I sold Constuction to Celts, who are now free to research/trade for Feudalism. They have just become a Monarchy.

We will have iron on-line before the end of my set.

I have paused at turn five to allow further discussion.

 

[I. Larkin]

Ok with Eng, but as a result most probably we will get Eng when most AIs will have it. Let see. I'd rather buy Eng ASAP and trade for Feo if this opportunity will appear.
But I think it was (minor) wrong move.
Also wrong move was missing silk.
City at MW may also flip, have no connection to core, outside of strategical main line.
We could build some warriors to upgrade, before iron now we may build Spears to escort MWs at Aztecs land.
Without silk harbor not need that much, but we need road connection to Teayo, and later our own harbor.
Not sure about Construction, but well...

 

[Bucephalus]

Also wrong move was missing silk.

Well, if the MW town is a flip risk, what do you think would be the case with a silks town, which would be pushing back Zulu borders on two sides? It is, after all, considerably further from our core, and considerably closer to the Zulu core.

City at MW may also flip, have no connection to core, outside of strategical main line.

But it does take the last settling spot, and frees the MW for more useful duties.

Without silk harbor not need that much, but we need road connection to Teayo, and later our own harbor.

I disagree; with three sources of iron we have excellent trading opportunties, and a harbour will give us that connection. Teayo will produce the worker required to connect it by road, at least once the resistance is quelled, and it's flip risk is minimal - less than 1%. Also, with a trade route we can trade for luxs with far less risk than an aggressive settlement of Zulu silks - be aware that our land is full of Zulu units.

I'm puzzled by your reference to "later on our own harbour"; Teayo is ours, and it has a harbour.

Not sure about Construction, but well...

As a point of interest, I reloaded your save, and didn't make that trade - Celts traded for it on the first turn; had this been the case with my original play, we would have lost the 30g which we gained.

All of this merely reinforces mine and Spoon's point about discussion.

 

[I. Larkin]

I'm puzzled by your reference to "later on our own harbour"; Teayo is ours, and it has a harbour.

I meant that when we will trade Iron we will need harbor.
But to avoid reputation hit we need our harbor at the City that will not flip.

Also, with a trade route we can trade for luxs with far less risk than an aggressive settlement of Zulu silks - be aware that our land is full of Zulu units.

Yes, silk settlement would aggressive and risky. But if we consider war plan vs Zulu it is excellent forpost (base) for our attack. Our attack route will go this way and our troops will be there. And it would give us silk for some turns. MW City vise a versa will need a defense as IBT Zulu but there no roads there. However all my "reasons" could be wrong if zulu declare suddenly or silk City flips after few turns.

30 g for Construction well, turn before it was 26, and turn later could be 34, but overall 30 g do not deserve our discussion.

What we have to prepare now Tenotchilian attack.

 

[Own]

Do you have the save, Bucephalus?

 

[Own]

Does anyone still have interest in this game?

 

[I. Larkin]

Does anyone still have interest in this game?

Yes, I do...

 

[Own]

I do too. I assume Buce is busy. Let's let him take his time.

 

[Own]

If this game is in fact going to continue, it will have continue without me, as I'll be gone for a month without civ. I can still find internet to see what's going on and comment, but I doubt I'll get another set in.