Sid Spaceship Game

[boardinfailboat]

how do you guys ahve 20 cities? or are those just two close colors? and middle ages by 1000bc is pretty sick.

 

[thetrooper]

He just said that Inca and Iro share the 'same' colour...

 

[Spoonwood]

Spoonwood-in the hole
Own-just played
I. Larkin-up
Bucephalus-on deck

Oh drat, I forgot we need to have Iron Working to figure out who has iron. Well, we know that the Zulu have iron, since we've since swordsman. Own, do you remember seeing an Aztec or Incan swordsman? The Inca seem to have quite a few hills, so I guess they have iron. If the Aztecs don't have swordsman, or it looks like they don't have iron, then I think we'll want to wait 4 or so turns, then give them Literature. This means we'll need libraries in the north near the Zulu and the east near the Inca.

 

[I. Larkin]

Are we going to have monopoly on Lit?
If yes we may trade a lot IBT.
Are there any Lib prebuild? Or we decided to go war?
Got file.

 

[Own]

Spoonwood-in the hole
Own-just played
I. Larkin-up
Bucephalus-on deck

Oh drat, I forgot we need to have Iron Working to figure out who has iron. Well, we know that the Zulu have iron, since we've since swordsman. Own, do you remember seeing an Aztec or Incan swordsman? The Inca seem to have quite a few hills, so I guess they have iron. If the Aztecs don't have swordsman, or it looks like they don't have iron, then I think we'll want to wait 4 or so turns, then give them Literature. This means we'll need libraries in the north near the Zulu and the east near the Inca.

Neither the Aztecs nor the Incans had swords. Why would we want to wait if we're going to be giving Lit away? And, are we sure that we don't want to use it to get as many techs as possible, even if it means less of a chance of them building it? If the Celts still don't have CoL next turn, we've got a decent trading opportunity, and then we could research into the MA. I know we've already discussed this, and I'd still do the giveaway to the Aztecs (obviously in exchange for CoL if possible which we can use to get techs from the Celts), but is anyone having second thoughts?

Are we going to have monopoly on Lit?
If yes we may trade a lot IBT.
Are there any Lib prebuild? Or we decided to go war?
Got file.

We will probably have a monopoly. If so, we could probably trade some. I think we've decided to give Lit exclusively to the Aztecs and hope that they build it for us, so we can then raid them with MWs and take it.

 

[I. Larkin]

I also think that better trade around Lit to get as much as possible amount of Techs.
We may take TGL later with MW easily. Question is will we focus on Libs to build now or MWs to gain some space?

 

[Own]

More MWs, definitely. Libraries will always be useful, but there's a small window in which we can use the MWs.

I think you might be right about trading around Lit. The problem is, what if the Incans build it? There's no way we could take it from them without RoP rape (which we won't do) or getting our core annihilated. But I guess any other civ building it wouldn't be terrible, because the Aztecs and Zulu are weak, and if it's a far away civ, we could get a neighbor in on a MA to protect us.

Here's a suggestion: trade it to everybody except the Incans. Sure, they'll probably trade for it the next turn anyway, but that one turn head start for every other AI could be the difference, and it will matter since most wonders have been built already (so no wonder cascade).

 

[Spoonwood]

The plan lay in selecting our opponent who builds the Great Library. I don't see this working if we give/trade away Literature to everyone. Do you guys? That the Aztecs and Zulu are at war *helps* with the plan, since we can give away Literature to the Aztecs and we know the Zulu won't get Literature (unless they're researching it already) from the Aztecs. The Aztecs also look like they have the least amount of contacts on this map. I like the idea of trading Literature away to *one* opponent for say Code of Laws and then trying to trade away Code of Laws for something. We'll get techs once we capture the Great Library... we don't have time for aqueducts or markets anyway, and getting ourselves to Iron Working/Maths won't take too long if we want to do that... or we just stash up on cash/buy MWs (possibily better).

I agree with Own on more MWs. *After* 5 turns we might then trade away Literature to everyone else... but we need some window of time where our target AI gets some sort of headstart on building the Great Library for us. Maybe less than 5 turns, but something. Otherwise the Celts might bulid it half-way around the world.

 

[Own]

Half-way around the world beats a monster neighbor. At least we could build up a force of MWs (possibly with armies involved) and take it, but if the Inca built it, that would truly be a disaster. I'd most like the Aztecs to have it.

I really don't know what I think yet. Some part of me thinks that this game can't be won without capturing the GL, so we should forfeit potential techs from literature and put all of our eggs in having it be built by the Aztecs. But another part of me thinks that we're basing our entire game plan on getting lucky, and something about that seems wrong, even if the Aztecs do build it. Actually winning the game would feel like winning a poker hand just because we hit the inside straight. Trading away Lit to all of our opponents would at least keep us in the game in the event that a civ such as the Incans build the GL. And considering how relatively easy (of course, it will still be difficult) the Aztecs will be to take out, we could find ourselves in a half-decent position to win even without the GL, and we might be glad that we at least got ourselves a few free AA techs.

On the other hand, when you play a certain kind of game that has only been won once before with 8 incredible players, a 3 cow start, and lots of luck when they needed it, maybe you have to take the gamble. To continue the poker analogy, maybe giving Lit exclusively to the Aztecs would be like calling an all-in with 5-1 pot odds (aka you're pot-committed) and you only have a draw.

Basically, giving Lit only to the Aztecs is taking a risk. The risk is most likely losing an opportunity to get some free AA techs that we'd otherwise have to research ourselves, and the reward is a greater chance of the easiest GL capture.

I'm still undecided.

 

[Bucephalus]

I would trade it around; I really don't see Aztecs keeping it, more likely they will use it to get out of the war with Shaka - remember, they have lost three towns and a lot of units, and now they are dog-piled.

Also, now they have a fresh adversary, I can't see them committing a town to building it.

 

[I. Larkin]

I played 1 turn, we are at MA and revolt to Republic at 5 turn Anarchy. It is not important now, but in general I don't like our close City placement. What we are going to do about that in a future?
Disband 001 or some Cities around?

 

[Bucephalus]

I'm off on a short camping trip, so I'll be unavailable until Tuesday.

 

[Spoonwood]

What we are going to do about that in a future?
Disband 001 or some Cities around?

Move the capital or something. But, that's later. Also, we more want to win, so we don't necessarily need optimal research speed at the end.

We could have probably built the GL ourselves, but not anymore... so let's try to pick who builds it for us.

Also, Sid pangea has gotten done before besides the "Sid Vicious" game. Check the HoF. Moonsinger has two standard domination games with the Celts, a tiny SS game with the Aztecs, and a huge conquest game with China. There probably exist other ones also... I know VMXA has indicated he's beaten Sid pangea maps before.

 

[Salarakas]

lurker's comment: This will be a great game to watch. Even though I've played Civ3 since it came out and can beat Deity, I've never actually tried Sid. I remember reading the 7+1 game when it was going on and it still remains my all time fave SG story. Good luck guys!

Another funny thing is that come to think of it - I don't think I've ever played as the Indians even though the 7+1 game was with them. I've never experienced the awesome power of Dumbo's myself

 

[I. Larkin]

In my experience all Sid games "individual" and other map experience not very useful. Let see what will happen in a future. My question about Cities concerning about what to build there improvements or only units.

 

[Own]

Move the capital or something. But, that's later. Also, we more want to win, so we don't necessarily need optimal research speed at the end.

We could have probably built the GL ourselves, but not anymore... so let's try to pick who builds it for us.

Also, Sid pangea has gotten done before besides the "Sid Vicious" game. Check the HoF. Moonsinger has two standard domination games with the Celts, a tiny SS game with the Aztecs, and a huge conquest game with China. There probably exist other ones also... I know VMXA has indicated he's beaten Sid pangea maps before.

I don't mind the current capital. Moving it might create a slightly more efficient empire but will be a large investment, so I don't know when it will be worth it. It seems like if at any point we could afford to make such an investment, we'd be in a good enough position to win anyway. Besides, close city spacing means that a higher percentage of tiles will be improved if you have a constant worker to city ratio, so it provides us with more MM opportunities.

About the Sid on pangaea, those HoF games were only with 4 opponents. And standard pangaea is really the only hard one, and it's harder with a larger percent of land. On tiny and small, there's not much space for the AI either, and on large and huge, there's enough room for you to create a decent core even with max opponents. It's on a standard with 7 opponents that creates a very fast tech pace, because 7 AIs means plenty of trading partners for the AIs, the techs are still relatively expensive for human research, and they live close enough to each other for quick AI to AI contacts. Also, finding room for decent expansion is very difficult.

 

[Spoonwood]

I'd think units until we know we'll capture the Great Library or so, and then improvements... except in border towns with the tribes which we won't attack, which probably need libraries right away.

 

[I. Larkin]

0 1250 BC hit enter
IBT zzz
1 1225 BC Trade lit to Aztecs, CoL to Celts, Rep from Mongols for Lit +41 gpt, Lit to Arabia for Cash, Lit to Inca for Cash + CB, then rest AA tech from Zulu, Atctek and Celts. Celts down some techs, made embassy. The have some GS in a City. Send MW to prevent Celts SS pair. Revolt ; 6 turns Anarchy.
IBT got boot order
2 1200 BC nothing much, scout west
IBT
3 1175 BC nothing much, scout west
IBT got boot
4 1150 BC nothing much, scout west
IBT got boot
5 1125 BC nothing much, scout west
IBT Zulu capture Malinako
6 1100 BC nothing much, scout west
IBT Zulu Capture Tula
7 1075 BC Settle 008. We are in Republic. 20% lux.
IBT
8 1050 BC nothing much, scout west
IBT TGL in Baghdad.
9 1025 BC Declare to Aztecs , Capture catapult. Start GA. Embassy in Zimbabwe, RoP with Zulu and Inca.
IBT Zulu regroup troops. Japan declares to Aztecs.
10 1000 BC Kill Archer near Teayo. Watch Aztec Spear at the South - East of our land!
I think better focus troops on Tenochtilian (GW). The rest is less important.
Settler may settle near Silk (steal from Zulu). MW at NW holds last position for "AI" City.

 

[I. Larkin]

I don't mind the current capital. Moving it might create a slightly more efficient empire but will be a large investment, so I don't know when it will be worth it. It seems like if at any point we could afford to make such an investment, we'd be in a good enough position to win anyway. Besides, close city spacing means that a higher percentage of tiles will be improved if you have a constant worker to city ratio, so it provides us with more MM opportunities.

Now yes, it is efficient.
But later with more Cities better to have 2 Core empire.
At GA, however better to have some Marketplaces.
And Libs for border Cities. I think we may gain some space in Aztecs land.

 

[Own]

I haven't looked at the save yet, but it sounds like we've been making great progress. Good job getting the republic, revolting, and starting a war. Arabia building the GL is a minor bummer. At least it wasn't the Inca, and at least we're at least somewhat caught up in tech so capturing it might not even be necessary. If we really expand our empire with the Aztec war, we could be powerful enough to not need it.

I think this makes Buce up.