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Sids Level Tips and Questions and Answers only.

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by lifetap, Mar 9, 2016.

  1. BlackHat

    BlackHat Chieftain

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    Elimination of a target of an MA comes with a rep hit according to at least 1 thread. Not sure where, but I found it for my most recent game to decide whether to blockade America or eliminate them.

    Wouldn't this a useful mechanic for 20k games as well? They might even be dumb enough to discard progress on late MA wonders, leaving you to clean up the scraps in peace.

    You're right that more detailed knowledge of AI mobilization is needed. Need to think about how to tease that out in testing.

    Those are great threads BTW. Most of them I had not seen or forgotten about.
     
  2. justanick

    justanick Chieftain

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    One method that may at times very much ease defeating Sid is letting letting AI overbuild its military. With 60% discount on shields that can happen much sooner than at Deity even though at Sid AI gets 8 free unit supports per town compared to 4 at Deity. This can cause some isolated tribes to get stuck in the ancient age because units supports crumbles the economy. Similar can happen in the industruial age when research costs double and production can possibly more than double, thus increasing the likelyhood of that convenient problem to arise.
     
  3. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    That depends on what you're trading them. I DID sign military alliances for lump sums of gold in my recent Mayan Demi-God game for the gauntlet sending them gpt, and I don't think I suffered a reputation hit. I mean, I still had the ability to buy gold for gpt at the same rate.

    It works just like any other deal. If you export them resources or luxuries, then you will suffer a reputation hit. But, if you don't, and you don't have something like an RoP, then you won't.

    Well, if it worked. Ray2 says elsewhere that you can't get the AIs to mobilize for a phony war (though DocT seems to suggest that you can).
     
  4. frostysh

    frostysh Chieftain

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    Wow! Many thanx, I didn't know that Civilization series is so complicated, especially my favorite 3rd. I will read those tons of an information later. Actually, it is just a PC-game, turn-based strategy, I think its cannot be so difficult at the max. difficulty, and I think I will win sooner or later. For now my favorite strategy is "Start Game, Game Over, Next" until will be "Start Game, Victory" :), on Random/Default almost everything except a map which I taken looks like p. Earth, or something.
    I have already played a tens of games! In CIVIV, and many games in CIVIII, and I think that CIVIII on Sid is far more complicated than CIVIV on Deity.
     
  5. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    The mechanics of production are such that the costs on getting things can get discounted. And the AIs get free units. Here's the relevant information from the editor:

    upload_2017-5-25_18-17-37.png

    upload_2017-5-25_18-21-21.png

    So, the AIs start with 12 extra defensive units, 6 extra offensive land units, 2 extra settlers (number of start unit type 1), 4 extra workers, 24 extra free support, 8 bonus support for each city, minimal transition time from Anarchy (unless playing as religious), a cost factor of 4 meaning that the AI builds something for 4/10 of the cost of the human player, and an AI to AI trade rate of 200, meaning that they don't have to pay much to trade things with each other. That also doesn't for the tech cost for the human player, which I don't recall what it is or know where that information lies. Techs cost a lot on Sid. On top of that note that part about 'optimal cities' in the above. That means that the human player experiences more corruption on Sid than on other levels. There is also no attack bonus against barbarians and the expansionist trait has less use (there's an article which clarifies this in detail somewhere on the forums).

    The cost factor also affects the size of the boxes that the AI needs for growth (or starvation). So, to grow from size 1 to 2, 2 to 3, 3 to 4, 4 to 5, 5 to 6, or 6 to 7 requires only 8 food for an AI without a granary, while the human player requires 20 food with a granary. To grow from size 7 to 8, 8 to 9, 9 to 10, 10 to 11, 11 to 12, or 12 to 13 requires only 16 food for an AI without a granary, but 40 food for the human player.

    Now, the AIs can get made even more productive and have even more bonuses. Ignoring differences like specialists, and the tech tree, someone by the pseudonym of Bamspeedy even did this before Sid level got made available to the general public, and his victory still makes for an interesting read. But, note that he had a pre-selected map where he deliberately tried to have the AIs have a weaker start and he had a strong on and they had limited contacts. But, there would have existed substantial differences on a pangea map and I thought that the questions got directed towards a general sort of strategy.

    Make no mistake in terms of strategy the AIs are lackluster and don't have focus. They lack decent worker management, and have a poor city placement strategy, and some other notable weaknesses. But, they have such a sizeable head start and easier access to producing things and growing than the human player. To make an analogy, probably neither you or I could even hope to beat the best marathon runners in the world. But, if we had a head start, we could finish a marathon, and the best marathon runners in the world had to stop every so often while we could keep running, it would become possible for us to beat them in a race. The AIs have such advantages over the human player at Sid level. Actually, the AIs have advantages over the human player at every level above Regent. The human player has advantages on the AI at Chieftain and Warlord, and things end up even on Regent. So, it's the degree of advantages that matter here.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2017
  6. frostysh

    frostysh Chieftain

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    Yeah, I have played few times, and decided to get trough CIVIV "Deity" first, and forgot for now about CIVIII "Sid", coz' son of the preacher man CIVIII Sid is tough like ******* :(. My civ survive on CIVIII only in island like stuff, and with full satisfying of annoying orders from other civs like a "give to me this thing, and this thing..." But sooner or later I will won! this son of the preacher man AI. They are doomed from beginning, I just need roll on random until I will get a cool map, and I will read this manuals.
     
  7. justanick

    justanick Chieftain

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    That is no transition time at all at Sid. There is an immediate switch from one government to the next, no Anarchy at all! The maximum amount of Anarchy turns is the figure in the box minus 1.

    Human tech cost are proprotonal to 1 / AI cost factor.

    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/research-cost-formula-v1-29f.29485/

    That refers only to rank corruption, which implies that if given the needed space(you will not be given it, AI settles damn fast) it makes sense to settle relative wide spaced to ensure that the few low corruption towns, that you can have, will have enough highly productive tiles.

    Also noteworthy is that the effect of courthouses and police stations is not mitigated by the reduction in optimal city number. In a way the effect will much stronger, as there is more corruption that can be reduced. With all anti-corruption buildings corruption at Sid will be not much higher than at regent.

    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/everything-about-corruption-c3c-edition.76619/

    Something here does not fit. "while it requires 20 food with a granary" is probably meant to be "but 20 food for the human player".
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2017
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  8. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    Wait... how does accelerated production work?
     
  9. justanick

    justanick Chieftain

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    That question appears to be unrelated to the quote. A quick check showed that accelerated production does reduce food needed for growth, shields needed for completing say a warrior and beakers needed for completing a tech each by 50%.

    Ceremonial Burial costs 2 x 240/4 = 120 beakers at a standard map at Sid, with accelerated production it only is 60 beakers.
     
  10. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    I had thought of accelerated production as the human player and the AI having their cost factor halved. But, that would have entailed that with accelerated production the cost of tech would go up, when I knew that it goes down with accelerated production. So, I guess that formula needs another variable for accelerated production.
     
  11. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Civ3 is a strategy game as complicated as chess... You don't expect to become a chess grandmaster in just a few weeks, do you? It takes a lot of time to learn all the mechanics and all the necessary strategies. And I'm not sure whether you'll be able to learn all this, if you start with Sid (instead of one of the lower levels).

    To continue with what justanick said: assume you have never run a long distance race and you decide you want to complete a marathon successfully. Will you immediately try to run 42km on your first day, or will you prepare for that marathon by first running 5km for a few weeks, then increase your training distance to 10km for a few weeks, then run 20km for a couple of month, then 30km, and only after preparing hard for half a year or so, you try your first full marathon?
    If you have never played Civ3 before and then you want to beat Sid, it is equivalent to someone, who has never done any sports except for walking from his house to the garage, and who then decides "I'm going to run a marathon tomorrow"... :D

    You mean the "maximum"? :confused:
     
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  12. justanick

    justanick Chieftain

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    Yes, i fixed that.
     

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