Single unit (per class) rule in naval warfare and tactics

[lankypeter]

PREFACE: I have no idea how this would actually work but I keep coming to this conclusion...

I wonder if Civ V will treat planes much like they sound like they are treating land based units in water; planes won't need to be "based" in a city/fort/carrier and act more like a lone unit that doesn't theoretically run out of fuel and crash like in Civ II (or was it III - I forget).

 

[SMA333M]

I think the maps will be bigger... and the ships will be able to move really fast.

I also think that the transports will be exceptions from the rule, so you will be able to have several units on same tile (if they are inside transports). If not, then we will be able to build only few units (and I really mean few)... like you will go invade with just 10 land units (in modern era). But I hope not, because that will ruine the game.
So the Transports can become 100% vulnerable to attacks and you can keep as many as you like on 1 tile, because you will loose all after just 1 attack anyway, if they are not defended well.

The Carrier might keep just 1 Jet Fighter, but that Jet Fighter will be able to attack 3 times / turn (so 1 jet fighter in Civ 5 will be as powerful as 3 Jet Fighters in Civ 4). But in Civ 4 I was building at least 15 Carriers & 45 Jet fighters for them... sometimes I was even going for 30 Carriers and 90 Jet Fighters ! So thinking about that... the Carrier might even be able to still hold 3 Jet Fighters, but these Jet fighters will be able to attack 3 times / turn (each... so 9 attacks / turn from 1 Carrier).

 

[66th of Foot]

It is very possible to have multiple units on a tile... ie a carrier has 5 wings onboard but only one can provide aircover over the same tile. The other 4 however can fly someplace else as long as there are not 2 wings on the same tile.
So in the end, its impossible to have 2 flying wings on the same tile but 4 or whatever number of wings inside a carrier. You just have to launch them on different tiles in combat.

You're basing this assumption on the theory that if you have 1 plane on the deck that another plane could fly top cover in the same hex...you have no idea if thats how the game mechanics work.Everything is always 1upt of each domain,just because a plane is supposedly airborne in gameplay does not make it any diffirent than 1 on the ground or in a carrier I'll wager or or goes against everything the devs have said so far.Think of it as each domain as a diff color (blue-naval,green-land,red-air) and you can't have any 2 of the same color in any given hex unless 1 leaves the hex that turn.Thats the way its been explained wherever I read it.
Thinking of that carriers being of the naval domain means no other naval escorts in the same hex so unless you had 6 escorts in surrounding hexs or air defense ZOCs for less escorts...then a carrier would be a sitting duck for any ranged naval bombardment and the plane,planes,air armada onboard would suffer collateral damage from said ranged attack.

 

[66th of Foot]

Wait until we get more info on the game before engaging in speculation how it 'might' work.

 

[The Cosmic Kid]

Think of it as each domain as a diff color (blue-naval,green-land,red-air) and you can't have any 2 of the same color in any given hex unless 1 leaves the hex that turn.Thats the way its been explained wherever I read it.

I believe what he's saying is that the developers are free to break this rule under special circumstances if they feel the need to do so. (If that's not what he's saying, consider it said anyway.) There's no point in a foolish consistency if it would detract from the gameplay. Now, I've seen no reason why the devs couldn't make one-unit-per-tile work for aircraft, but this is something to keep in mind.

 

[66th of Foot]

I think the maps will be bigger... and the ships will be able to move really fast.

I also think that the transports will be exceptions from the rule, so you will be able to have several units on same tile (if they are inside transports). If not, then we will be able to build only few units (and I really mean few)... like you will go invade with just 10 land units (in modern era). But I hope not, because that will ruine the game.
So the Transports can become 100% vulnerable to attacks and you can keep as many as you like on 1 tile, because you will loose all after just 1 attack anyway, if they are not defended well.

The Carrier might keep just 1 Jet Fighter, but that Jet Fighter will be able to attack 3 times / turn (so 1 jet fighter in Civ 5 will be as powerful as 3 Jet Fighters in Civ 4). But in Civ 4 I was building at least 15 Carriers & 45 Jet fighters for them... sometimes I was even going for 30 Carriers and 90 Jet Fighters ! So thinking about that... the Carrier might even be able to still hold 3 Jet Fighters, but these Jet fighters will be able to attack 3 times / turn (each... so 9 attacks / turn from 1 Carrier).

Are you seriously suggesting that units in transports would not count as being of the land domain?Do they 'transform' to the actual transport then?Could you keep building units ,with the appropriate resources available,and then stack them offshore as an invisible SoD so it wouldn't count against whatever unit cap there is?How would you unload at the other end?....on a beach head 20-30 hexes wide?...or 1 at a time and shuffle them to unoccupied hexes until you marshall your forces?You couldn't do that either because unless you had enough resources for the types of units you couldn't 'transform' them back due to the resource cap they're bring in.Why not create an APC unit,a land transport,and stack your ground forces on 1 hex then...theres your SoD again.
If you had only 1 fighter/carrier would you be able to designate what mission it is to fly on each sortie off the deck?..1st recce,2nd attack,3rd intercept? What if it takes damage on the 1st mission,then its less effective and possibly damaged again on the 2nd mission...would you even try launching a severely damaged plane on a 3rd mission now?
Sorry I can't see these ideas as 'thinking' because if you put any thought into it you'd see they're ludicrous suggestions.End rant.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

If not, then we will be able to build only few units (and I really mean few)... like you will go invade with just 10 land units (in modern era). But I hope not, because that will ruine the game.

Actually, the Opposite will ruin the game more... If you have an army of 50 units in the modern Era, then Modern wars will be even Worse than they are now.

Because of one unit per tile, they can only get maybe 20-30 units before the game becomes tedious and boring.

so As much as I prefer an Epic civ with hundreds of "units" (in general)

I'd far rather have 10-20 really important units at 1 per hex.
than 50-70 units that I have to move to their own hexes as a modern warmonger.

 

[SMA333M]

I say that the transports might be 100% vulnerable to attacks... so if you don't defend them well, you will loose all after just 1 attack... so no, that won't be a "stack of doom". And it makes sense because this way you can defend your transports, having ships around them. It will be much too hard to defend transports if you have (let's say) 20 transports on 20 hex tiles. How do you defend that ? You can only make a limited number of ships...

If you can have 20 transports (= 20 land units) on 1 tile, then you only need 6 ships around them. And that's because on sea, the land units will become transport units so they will have different stats. When they are back on land, you get back to the normal rule which says you can only have 1 unit / tile.

That's just an idea about how it might work...


Or... maybe you will have only 1 transport / tile BUT... every transport will be able to hold like 4 units (or something), even if you can't really build transports. Then that makes sense too... again I say that having 20 transports on 20 tiles, when you can't build enough ships to protect them, makes no sense to me. I won't invade if my transports are not protected lol...

I like to invade with low casualties (even 0 casualties if possible) and even more in Civ 5 where I will have fewer units so they will be more important.


I just hope that I will be able to build enough units to make nice strategies... I like to attack a civ from 3 parts... so I need plenty of units for that, to have support and everything...

 

[Culture Bomb]

I wonder how invading another land mass will work...

With 1-unit-per-tile, it is entirely possible that the entire coast will be lined with defending units, so you will always have to attack at a disadvantage. While this may be more realistic than being able to land without opposition, think about what happens next:

If you win the battle and successfully invade, how are you going to go about establishing a beachhead? Your one invading unit will presumably be damaged, but the 1upt rule will mean you cannot land another unit there to protect it, and if it used its movement points in attacking it will not be able to withdraw or move aside to allow another unit to replace it.

On your enemy's next turn they will be able to easily defeat your injured unit and you will have to start the invasion all over again.

Obviously I don't know that it will work like this, but from what we know so far I'm worried this kind of thing might happen.

 

[V. Soma]

I wonder how invading another land mass will work...

With 1-unit-per-tile, it is entirely possible that the entire coast will be lined with defending units, so you will always have to attack at a disadvantage. While this may be more realistic than being able to land without opposition, think about what happens next:

If you win the battle and successfully invade, how are you going to go about establishing a beachhead? Your one invading unit will presumably be damaged, but the 1upt rule will mean you cannot land another unit there to protect it, and if it used its movement points in attacking it will not be able to withdraw or move aside to allow another unit to replace it.

On your enemy's next turn they will be able to easily defeat your injured unit and you will have to start the invasion all over again.

Obviously I don't know that it will work like this, but from what we know so far I'm worried this kind of thing might happen.

it is early to guess here,
but maybe unit swapping can be applied here too...
(with sg. like "action/move points")

 

[Yakk]

Apparently all naval units will have an accompanied transport, and will be able to carry 1 land unit.

So you'll have a screen of non-transport boats, a core of boats transporting your units, and you'll try to land a beach-head along a length of coast.

The enemy won't have the entire coast coated (barring a very small island with lots of units being supported by a main continent somewhere else), because they will have fewer units than that.

A n x n continent has a surface area on the order of 4n (give or take, usually give). So that means you have ~n/4 interior tiles per hex of surface area.

If you have 2 units per city, and a city takes up (1+6+12)*1.5 tiles:
n/4 = 28.5
n = 114

So a 114 by 114 sized continent is about the size at which an enemy could coat the surface of the continent with troops (1 deep).

You'll note that this continent is larger than any standard Civ4 map, let alone a world with multiple of them.

 

[sputnik323]

I wonder how invading another land mass will work...

With ships being able to bombard from long ranges, having units just sit on the coast after their navy has been defeated is just suicide. When the defending navy has been defeated, the army will have to fall back to areas safe from bombardment.

What is more awesome with this possibility is separating fleets to bait people into an invasion. Once the ships get to shore to begin offload, a hidden fleet could come in from behind and almost surround the invasion force being attacked on 2 sides - basically having 2 armies to 1 because the invading army is combined with the navy. 1 kill = 2 losses.