SirPleb, Going for Sid
- Thread starter SirPleb
- Start date
SirPleb
Shaken, not stirred.
I think this is a new way for the AI to self-destruct. A cancerous sort of military growth peculiar to Sid level. I suspect that because the production bonus is so high, the AI has built every possible improvement in all 18 of those cities. And then rather than produce wealth it keeps on producing military? Since it is isolated on an island, it never gets into a war which would prune that military. Eventually I expect it would over-run its ability to support itself. In the meantime its science rate is probably getting slower and slower.
It may be that we can take advantage of this self-limiting behavior. If each (surviving) AI remains isolated on an island it might be possible to use this to get a Space victory. Once the AIs outgrow their ability to sustain themselves it should be possible to take the research lead. We'd need to get past 1/2 of their culture before they reach 160K culture of course.
I am starting to think that archipelago might not be such a great idea for a high score Sid game though
zerksees
in remission
Originally posted by SirPleb
I am starting to think that archipelago might not be such a great idea for a high score Sid game though
Is this because the AI isn't smart enough to build enough ships to fight each other and keep unit counts down?
Maybe a switch to continents might help by slowing the tech rate some but still making it possible to have more than one AI on each land mass.
Timko
King
SirPleb I thought that you need to have over double the nearest competitor to get a culture victory. Doesn't that include the other AIs?
Originally posted by SirPleb
I am starting to think that archipelago might not be such a great idea for a high score Sid game though
In my Sid game, archipelago map was the key for a very high score game. Basically, I was left alone on my own island (the biggest island on the map too). The reason for that is because it's full of jungles and lack of luxury and resource - the AIs don't want to start in such a bad position like that on Sid. I was able to control almost 1/3 of the world map through peaceful expansion - a huge early score and power boost for me (especially when I was the Mayan).
Timko
King
That's true but on archipelago the AI will find it very difficult to destroy each other, and I was thinking that maybe there would be a few other AI's left with a fairly equal culture. Then you wouldn't concentrate on culture yourself.
Quote
Originally posted by metalhead:
"That's 1347 units!!! How are they affording well over 1000 gpt in army upkeep with 18 cities?"
The AI can afford this huge army becuase (correct me if I am wrong) at Sid level, the AI gets a huge allowed unit bonus and you have to take the goverment type into consideration as well.
Originally posted by metalhead:
"That's 1347 units!!! How are they affording well over 1000 gpt in army upkeep with 18 cities?"
The AI can afford this huge army becuase (correct me if I am wrong) at Sid level, the AI gets a huge allowed unit bonus and you have to take the goverment type into consideration as well.
Originally posted by SirPleb
I think this is a new way for the AI to self-destruct. A cancerous sort of military growth peculiar to Sid level. I suspect that because the production bonus is so high, the AI has built every possible improvement in all 18 of those cities. And then rather than produce wealth it keeps on producing military? Since it is isolated on an island, it never gets into a war which would prune that military. Eventually I expect it would over-run its ability to support itself. In the meantime its science rate is probably getting slower and slower.
It may be that we can take advantage of this self-limiting behavior. If each (surviving) AI remains isolated on an island it might be possible to use this to get a Space victory. Once the AIs outgrow their ability to sustain themselves it should be possible to take the research lead. We'd need to get past 1/2 of their culture before they reach 160K culture of course.
I am starting to think that archipelago might not be such a great idea for a high score Sid game though
That is exactly what happens. If they are isolated or backward in tech early on they will build so many units instead of wealth that they cripple their research.
Then as time goes by they are unable to get up to speed. This is one of the reason you almost always see one KAI at Sid. The one that makes contacts or overruns a neighbor.
Speaking of the numbers for a small empire, I had killed over 700 Germans who only had 8 cities in one game.
SirPleb
Shaken, not stirred.
Right, the AI is terrible at invasions across water, so their unit count just keeps rising.
I think you're right that continents might work well at Sid level. Or maybe archipelago with a large but isolated landmass - Moonsigner seems to have a nice one on the go like that. The ideal map might be one where each AI has one local opponent of roughly equal strength but they're isolated aside from that.
I think it does include other AIs. But there's still the possibility that one AI gets a large enough landmass (either by starting isolated or by wiping out its local opponents) to become a KAI (killer AI.) I suspect this result may even be common, I'm not sure. Anyway, we either have to have two AIs which are within 2:1 in culture or take care of the culture threat ourselves
Sounds like an awesome start! I look forward to seeing the result - I'm sure you will take maximum advantage of the situation!
I guess the problem that would go with a map like this is getting your first army. It would be good to have a nearby island which has two or more AIs so that you could take part in a war between them to get started on armies?Although the AI does get a huge bonus, I don't expect it is enough for them to afford this kind of military. If the AI is in Fascism and has 18 cities, at Sid level it should get free support for 24 (flat Sid bonus) + 18 (cities) * ( 7 (fascism) + 8 (additional Sid bonus per city) ) = 294 units. That still leaves the Aztecs paying over 1000gpt for unit support as metalhead posted.
!That makes a lot of sense, goes a long way toward explaining the killer AI phenomenon at Sid level. I would guess that the AI who overruns a neighbor is the one to watch most - it has had the fortune to both increase its unit support and to have its military pruned, largely losing its most obsolete units which would help it even a bit more. So perhaps one of the most important general Sid strategies (vs. one specific to huge high score with selected map parameters
) is to watch for such situations and make all efforts to curtail them. Or to at least create a dogpile on any such Civ 
Does KAI mean "killer" AI, presumably one very strong opponent?
A very strong AI probably doesn't matter if, like SirPleb, you are strong enough to destroy them all, but it certainly hindered my attempt late in the industrial ages, as the Russians leapt about 8 techs ahead of the rest of us. It would also scupper any ploy depending on a late recapture of the Great Library. In my game such a recapture would have gained me no techs at all.
A very strong AI probably doesn't matter if, like SirPleb, you are strong enough to destroy them all, but it certainly hindered my attempt late in the industrial ages, as the Russians leapt about 8 techs ahead of the rest of us. It would also scupper any ploy depending on a late recapture of the Great Library. In my game such a recapture would have gained me no techs at all.
Lots of random thoughts/notes:
The huge AI armies is why they never have gpt to pay for techs or luxuries or whatever, but it is NOT a huge detriment to their ability to research.
Recall that the only penalty for having a negative income is the loss of one building and one unit, which is very easy to replace with Sid discounts. My guess is that, if they were checked, the AI would have very large negative income every turn but would still be researching at a reasonable clip (60% or so). Whenever I've investigated a Sid city, even when I *know* they're beyond broke, they have a high level of research going.
As for an earlier question in this thread (I just saw this thread), about the possibility of getting 20k city on Sid...it'll be extremely tough. I tried early on and had the fortune of getting Colossus, Great Library, Mausoleum, Sistine, and Bach in my city. But I was still the *THIRD* highest city in terms of culture, in early middle ages. It would require having the ability to raze all the enemy capitals, at the very least, and I was nowhere near that. Possible? Yes. Straight-forward? Definitely not.
Good luck with the rest of the game. My advice on the remaining civs is...when you find an open spot on their island, GRAB IT! It's not at all unusual for an isolated Sid AI to completely cover every square on their land. Simply getting a landing party is very hard, unless you have armies of marines or bombers in range (with lethal land bombard still enabled).
I find the different standards for ethics very interesting. I find the Great Library elevator an exploit and probably wouldn't use it (then again, I play more for fun than for score). But I would absolutely be in Communism at this point in the game. Interesting, no? Everybody has their own definition of exploit, even amonst players who try to be honorable....
On KAI (or runaway AIs, as I usually call them), I've noticed them a lot more in general in C3C. I think it has something to do with the way they changed the rebate for purchasing techs. Buying techs is more expensive than it used to be, significantly. This makes any "catching up" harder to do, so AI civs get left further and further in the dust.
Arathorn
The huge AI armies is why they never have gpt to pay for techs or luxuries or whatever, but it is NOT a huge detriment to their ability to research.
Recall that the only penalty for having a negative income is the loss of one building and one unit, which is very easy to replace with Sid discounts. My guess is that, if they were checked, the AI would have very large negative income every turn but would still be researching at a reasonable clip (60% or so). Whenever I've investigated a Sid city, even when I *know* they're beyond broke, they have a high level of research going.
As for an earlier question in this thread (I just saw this thread), about the possibility of getting 20k city on Sid...it'll be extremely tough. I tried early on and had the fortune of getting Colossus, Great Library, Mausoleum, Sistine, and Bach in my city. But I was still the *THIRD* highest city in terms of culture, in early middle ages. It would require having the ability to raze all the enemy capitals, at the very least, and I was nowhere near that. Possible? Yes. Straight-forward? Definitely not.
Good luck with the rest of the game. My advice on the remaining civs is...when you find an open spot on their island, GRAB IT! It's not at all unusual for an isolated Sid AI to completely cover every square on their land. Simply getting a landing party is very hard, unless you have armies of marines or bombers in range (with lethal land bombard still enabled).
I find the different standards for ethics very interesting. I find the Great Library elevator an exploit and probably wouldn't use it (then again, I play more for fun than for score). But I would absolutely be in Communism at this point in the game. Interesting, no? Everybody has their own definition of exploit, even amonst players who try to be honorable....
On KAI (or runaway AIs, as I usually call them), I've noticed them a lot more in general in C3C. I think it has something to do with the way they changed the rebate for purchasing techs. Buying techs is more expensive than it used to be, significantly. This makes any "catching up" harder to do, so AI civs get left further and further in the dust.
Arathorn
Culture loss is a very real threat. My first real attempt ended that way. They need twice the next highest civ to do it.
It is not hard with a KAI, because no other AI is strong either and the wonder cascade lets them get all kinds of ancient and middle age wonders. They get lots of industrial wonders, but they are not so important to culture, it is those 1000 years culture structures that kill you. They get uni's all over the place as they can build them dirt cheap.
This is something they would not be doing at Demi, but at Sid the KAI will make every structure in its core very quickly. They will have lots of cities if on a contient of good size.
As Arathorn mentioned, they will still research very well. Their size lets them do it until they are forced to Facism.
You will have a very poor culture if you are playing with barbs. You will be forced to build defenders soon and proably not make a temple for quite awhile. Barbs will kill some of your defenders, even spears. You will have a hard time stamping out camps, until you get some horse units or good numbers,. Either way it will cost you at a time where you are trying to fill out the land.
If you are alone, no armies for some time either. If you have a neighbor, you have to be in war for a long time to eliminate them. That is if they do not come for you enmasse (they never seem to).
I have not had the courage to attempt Sid on a pangea, only contients and island maps. Well actually I did it once with roaming barbs and got clobbered. The barbs get me trimmed until one of the nearby civs ran over the top of me.
It is not hard with a KAI, because no other AI is strong either and the wonder cascade lets them get all kinds of ancient and middle age wonders. They get lots of industrial wonders, but they are not so important to culture, it is those 1000 years culture structures that kill you. They get uni's all over the place as they can build them dirt cheap.
This is something they would not be doing at Demi, but at Sid the KAI will make every structure in its core very quickly. They will have lots of cities if on a contient of good size.
As Arathorn mentioned, they will still research very well. Their size lets them do it until they are forced to Facism.
You will have a very poor culture if you are playing with barbs. You will be forced to build defenders soon and proably not make a temple for quite awhile. Barbs will kill some of your defenders, even spears. You will have a hard time stamping out camps, until you get some horse units or good numbers,. Either way it will cost you at a time where you are trying to fill out the land.
If you are alone, no armies for some time either. If you have a neighbor, you have to be in war for a long time to eliminate them. That is if they do not come for you enmasse (they never seem to).
I have not had the courage to attempt Sid on a pangea, only contients and island maps. Well actually I did it once with roaming barbs and got clobbered. The barbs get me trimmed until one of the nearby civs ran over the top of me.
Getting land, especially taking away their luxuries or resources on their island/continent can be very easy.
I just put together a little trick sheet on that here:http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=85940
Note: A lot of time, they would eventually forget about their valuable piece of prime property. Mean while, I can just sit back and let my citizens enjoying the benefit of the new source of luxuries/resource.
SirPleb
Shaken, not stirred.
War With The Aztecs
This invasion was easier than my invasion of the Inca island. But quite time-consuming - the Aztec military was large.
In 1615AD I landed my first units on the Aztec island:
I also rushed my first few Cruisers at this date. I generally avoid sea battles but the Galleons floating around, particularly Incan ones, were interfering with my Transports. My Cruisers slowly took care of that problem.
In the next four turns I landed more troops and I spread my invasion forces out, occupying nearby tiles on turns when the Aztecs left them empty or poorly defended. At the start of 1635AD:
In 1635AD I investigated the Aztec city near my landing force. (It sure was nice to be able to spy at last!) It had 71 defenders, the strongest being Riflemen. I had 34 armies which could attack, and about 100 artillery. After bombarding I figured my armies could average 2.5 to 3 kills each, enough to take the city. So I attacked. It worked fine, I razed Tlacopan. This would allow me to settle my beachhead at an ideal location.
I decided to make a long Funnel Of Doom this time. It would be overkill for the Aztecs but it seemed an interesting excercise. I wanted to confirm that the AI would send units into the Funnel even when it would take many turns to reach my city. In 1640AD I settled to claim silks and formed the FOD:
The arrows show the paths the Aztecs can follow to reach my city without attacking an army.
The Aztecs filled the funnel over the next few turns. Their arrival was a bit staggered because they didn't have coal and therefore didn't have railroads. They spread out further as they entered the funnel - faster units raced ahead, units wounded by potshots from the funnel walls stopped or went back a bit to heal.
I couldn't connect silks yet because of the Aztec city northeast of my beachhead - its cultural region was blocking my beachhead from connecting to the open seas. In 1660 I razed that city and finally had a seventh luxury connected.
This Funnel Of Doom turned out to be serious overkill. At 1650AD the first Aztecs reached my city and 14 died attacking it. Next turn 17 died, then 29, then 50 at 1665AD. Each turn I also killed a fair number of units near the entrance to the Funnel, averaging about 60 per turn. Although the Funnel was finally ramping up the number of Aztecs arriving at my city was far less than my defenders could handle. I'd whittled down the Aztecs far enough by 1665AD to figure that their entire remaining force could not take my city unless they all reached it on the same turn. So I dismantled the Funnel, opening access to my city:
The Aztec units would still arrive at staggered intervals because many of them had been in transit in the Funnel. In 1670AD 77 Aztecs attacked and died. Then came the big turns. In 1675AD 183 Aztecs attacked and died. At the end of their attack my strongest defender was still a mid-yellow Infantry army. I also destroyed 63 Aztecs in my part of that turn and lost 1 Cavalry doing so. I think that sets a new Civ record for me: 246 enemy units destroyed, 1 unit lost! In 1680AD another 103 Aztecs died throwing themselves at my city and I destroyed another 109, losing 3 Cavalry to do so.
At the end of that turn (1680AD) the Aztec forces were down to 197 surviving units. Less than they'd lost in each of the last two turns. I could pretty much ignore them now. I'd already started sending out Cavalry armies to raze their cities some turns before this. In 1690AD I razed the last two Aztec cities and they were out of the game. Their remaining 154 units poofed out of existence, leaving the island to me.
My military is now heading for my remaining rivals. None is very strong. China is by far largest and her military is only considered "average" compared with mine. I don't expect any large challenge in the rest of the game. It will be a matter of picking off my opponents and milking the best land as quickly as possible.
Milking
In 1610AD I traded China Refining + Steel for another 20 turns of fur supply. I should be able to stay at eight luxuries from now on except a few turns at the beginning of my invasion of China.
In 1630AD I reassigned all of my taxmen to be scientists and began serious research. I abandoned my one-scientist research of Flight which still had 16 turns to go and started on Sanitation. Learned Sanitation in 1650AD, Mass Production in 1670AD, and Flight in 1695AD. I've built a number of Hospitals now and will continue researching as quickly as I can until I can build Mass Transits to go with the Hospitals.
When I destroyed the Aztecs in 1690AD their island looked like this:
My transports had been bringing over settlers and workers during the war, preparing for this moment. I disbanded cities in poor territory at home and the builders sprang to work on the island. I disbanded some military units, including most of my artillery, to speed development. Three turns later at my current game date 1705AD the transformation to a modern Iroquois province is well under way:
At 1705AD my score is 27660.
Thoughts about Funnels and Armies
The Funnel Of Doom I set up for the Aztecs was major overkill. I think that if a player has time (no immediate threat of losing, e.g. to culture), a Funnel with about 1/2 this strength (in terms of defenders in the city and spare Cavalry armies for attacks) could handle an AI military about twice the size of the Aztecs and containing a significant number of Infantry, and dealing with an AI with railroads. This technique can make a joke of the odds facing the invasion of an isolated Sid AI.
I think that a faster variant might be possible for invading and destroying a large AI. I could have created two separate four tile funnels to my city, one on each side following the coast. On alternate turns, "close" one funnel by moving a Cavalry to its tile nearest the city, and "open" the corresponding tile in the other funnel. I think the effect of this would be that the AI would move all of its forces back and forth between the two funnels, never reaching the city. It might be necessary to destroy a few injured fast units which stay in the wrong place each turn but basically I think it would work. With the bulk of the AI's forces kept busy this way, the human could send most armies (those not making up the funnel walls) out to raze the now relatively undefended enemy cities. The Aztec cities had many units (e.g. 71 in the city I first attacked) when I first entered their land. But as soon as they had a target to attack just a few (typically 4) defenders were left behind in each city. A group of 5 Cavalry armies can be expected to raze such a city even if the defenders are Infantry. An extra trick would be required to raze enemy cities near the beachhead - the AI tends to withdraw wounded troops to them. I think a few carefully placed armies along with some pillaging could isolate one city at a time from being used this way. The end result with an approach like this would be to destroy the AI without ever engaging most of its forces. Just make them go "poof" instead One risk with this approach would be if there were an isolated fragment of the same Civ to deal with (e.g. a nasty one-tile island) or if there were a wandering settler. I think the settler problem can be avoided by attacking only at a time when every tile in the world has been claimed by someone.
I hope that the final patch for C3C includes some changes to depower army tricks like these. They exploit the AI's predictability to an unreasonable degree. This isn't just for Sid level. Sid level is the stress test where we push vulnerabilities to their extreme. AI improvements for weaknesses exploited at Sid level will make for a better game at all levels I think. Changes I'd like to see:
1) It should not be possible to rush army builds with cash.
2) Change the AI to attack armies in the open, prioritizing armies sitting on resources.
3) Change the AI to build armies.
This invasion was easier than my invasion of the Inca island. But quite time-consuming - the Aztec military was large.
In 1615AD I landed my first units on the Aztec island:
I also rushed my first few Cruisers at this date. I generally avoid sea battles but the Galleons floating around, particularly Incan ones, were interfering with my Transports. My Cruisers slowly took care of that problem.
In the next four turns I landed more troops and I spread my invasion forces out, occupying nearby tiles on turns when the Aztecs left them empty or poorly defended. At the start of 1635AD:
In 1635AD I investigated the Aztec city near my landing force. (It sure was nice to be able to spy at last!) It had 71 defenders, the strongest being Riflemen. I had 34 armies which could attack, and about 100 artillery. After bombarding I figured my armies could average 2.5 to 3 kills each, enough to take the city. So I attacked. It worked fine, I razed Tlacopan. This would allow me to settle my beachhead at an ideal location.
I decided to make a long Funnel Of Doom this time. It would be overkill for the Aztecs but it seemed an interesting excercise. I wanted to confirm that the AI would send units into the Funnel even when it would take many turns to reach my city. In 1640AD I settled to claim silks and formed the FOD:
The arrows show the paths the Aztecs can follow to reach my city without attacking an army.
The Aztecs filled the funnel over the next few turns. Their arrival was a bit staggered because they didn't have coal and therefore didn't have railroads. They spread out further as they entered the funnel - faster units raced ahead, units wounded by potshots from the funnel walls stopped or went back a bit to heal.
I couldn't connect silks yet because of the Aztec city northeast of my beachhead - its cultural region was blocking my beachhead from connecting to the open seas. In 1660 I razed that city and finally had a seventh luxury connected.
This Funnel Of Doom turned out to be serious overkill. At 1650AD the first Aztecs reached my city and 14 died attacking it. Next turn 17 died, then 29, then 50 at 1665AD. Each turn I also killed a fair number of units near the entrance to the Funnel, averaging about 60 per turn. Although the Funnel was finally ramping up the number of Aztecs arriving at my city was far less than my defenders could handle. I'd whittled down the Aztecs far enough by 1665AD to figure that their entire remaining force could not take my city unless they all reached it on the same turn. So I dismantled the Funnel, opening access to my city:
The Aztec units would still arrive at staggered intervals because many of them had been in transit in the Funnel. In 1670AD 77 Aztecs attacked and died. Then came the big turns. In 1675AD 183 Aztecs attacked and died. At the end of their attack my strongest defender was still a mid-yellow Infantry army. I also destroyed 63 Aztecs in my part of that turn and lost 1 Cavalry doing so. I think that sets a new Civ record for me: 246 enemy units destroyed, 1 unit lost! In 1680AD another 103 Aztecs died throwing themselves at my city and I destroyed another 109, losing 3 Cavalry to do so.
At the end of that turn (1680AD) the Aztec forces were down to 197 surviving units. Less than they'd lost in each of the last two turns. I could pretty much ignore them now. I'd already started sending out Cavalry armies to raze their cities some turns before this. In 1690AD I razed the last two Aztec cities and they were out of the game. Their remaining 154 units poofed out of existence, leaving the island to me.
My military is now heading for my remaining rivals. None is very strong. China is by far largest and her military is only considered "average" compared with mine. I don't expect any large challenge in the rest of the game. It will be a matter of picking off my opponents and milking the best land as quickly as possible.
Milking
In 1610AD I traded China Refining + Steel for another 20 turns of fur supply. I should be able to stay at eight luxuries from now on except a few turns at the beginning of my invasion of China.
In 1630AD I reassigned all of my taxmen to be scientists and began serious research. I abandoned my one-scientist research of Flight which still had 16 turns to go and started on Sanitation. Learned Sanitation in 1650AD, Mass Production in 1670AD, and Flight in 1695AD. I've built a number of Hospitals now and will continue researching as quickly as I can until I can build Mass Transits to go with the Hospitals.
When I destroyed the Aztecs in 1690AD their island looked like this:
My transports had been bringing over settlers and workers during the war, preparing for this moment. I disbanded cities in poor territory at home and the builders sprang to work on the island. I disbanded some military units, including most of my artillery, to speed development. Three turns later at my current game date 1705AD the transformation to a modern Iroquois province is well under way:
At 1705AD my score is 27660.
Thoughts about Funnels and Armies
The Funnel Of Doom I set up for the Aztecs was major overkill. I think that if a player has time (no immediate threat of losing, e.g. to culture), a Funnel with about 1/2 this strength (in terms of defenders in the city and spare Cavalry armies for attacks) could handle an AI military about twice the size of the Aztecs and containing a significant number of Infantry, and dealing with an AI with railroads. This technique can make a joke of the odds facing the invasion of an isolated Sid AI.
I think that a faster variant might be possible for invading and destroying a large AI. I could have created two separate four tile funnels to my city, one on each side following the coast. On alternate turns, "close" one funnel by moving a Cavalry to its tile nearest the city, and "open" the corresponding tile in the other funnel. I think the effect of this would be that the AI would move all of its forces back and forth between the two funnels, never reaching the city. It might be necessary to destroy a few injured fast units which stay in the wrong place each turn but basically I think it would work. With the bulk of the AI's forces kept busy this way, the human could send most armies (those not making up the funnel walls) out to raze the now relatively undefended enemy cities. The Aztec cities had many units (e.g. 71 in the city I first attacked) when I first entered their land. But as soon as they had a target to attack just a few (typically 4) defenders were left behind in each city. A group of 5 Cavalry armies can be expected to raze such a city even if the defenders are Infantry. An extra trick would be required to raze enemy cities near the beachhead - the AI tends to withdraw wounded troops to them. I think a few carefully placed armies along with some pillaging could isolate one city at a time from being used this way. The end result with an approach like this would be to destroy the AI without ever engaging most of its forces. Just make them go "poof" instead
One risk with this approach would be if there were an isolated fragment of the same Civ to deal with (e.g. a nasty one-tile island) or if there were a wandering settler. I think the settler problem can be avoided by attacking only at a time when every tile in the world has been claimed by someone.I hope that the final patch for C3C includes some changes to depower army tricks like these. They exploit the AI's predictability to an unreasonable degree. This isn't just for Sid level. Sid level is the stress test where we push vulnerabilities to their extreme. AI improvements for weaknesses exploited at Sid level will make for a better game at all levels I think. Changes I'd like to see:
1) It should not be possible to rush army builds with cash.
2) Change the AI to attack armies in the open, prioritizing armies sitting on resources.
3) Change the AI to build armies.
SirPleb
Shaken, not stirred.
Interesting! I'm keeping a list of items to look into after finishing this game. And lots of saves to go with them. I've added this to the list, I want to find out for sure! I intend to write post mortem notes about whatever I learn then.
Thanks! I'll do that soon. I think I'll send some one-army transports to establish footholds and just go to war with all remaining Civs when necessary. Worst case I should be ok anyway, I can afford to use Marines if necessary. None of the remaining AIs seems a threat for any victory condition.
That does sound likely to be a factor. Being left behind in tech really hurts an AI. In this game Egypt is hopelessly far behind, mired in the Middle Ages. I've been surprised to see her stuck there instead of buying her way to near parity. Greater expense for techs would explain it. Especially combined with the excessive buildup of troops and infrastructure, all requiring maintenance.
An interesting question: Are the new runaway AIs are a good thing? My initial feeling is that they are. In this game the Zulu were well en route to running away when I hit them. And after them the Inca seemed to be heading in that direction though they didn't get as close to really taking off. (Except in culture.) It seems to me that a runaway AI puts more pressure on the human player in a tight game. At lower difficulty levels and in variant games runaway AIs may create more options by providing a choice between cooperating for a while with a strong AI vs. going against it.
SirPleb
Shaken, not stirred.
Very nice Moonsinger! I think an alternative, if one has a few armies, may be to surround the invasion town entirely with one's own armies. Then it would probably be possible to stay in an uneventful war. I intend to check that after finishing this game, i.e. check that the AI won't attack a city it can't reach without going through an army first.Originally posted by Moonsinger
Getting land, especially taking away their luxuries or resources on their island/continent can be very easy.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=85940
zerksees
in remission
SirPleb,
I am a big fan of radar towers. You can't always find a hill to put the city on but you can always build a radar tower. While reading your progress I thought you might have considered going down that part of the tech tree first to help your existing units. The extra 25% (IIRC) would surely require less units to hold the city - might speed up the invasion as less armies needed to form the funnels of doom.
Also bringing along workers or settlers to push the population to 7 on the first turn is a viable variant with proper rivers or lakes nearby.
Your thoughts?
I am a big fan of radar towers. You can't always find a hill to put the city on but you can always build a radar tower. While reading your progress I thought you might have considered going down that part of the tech tree first to help your existing units. The extra 25% (IIRC) would surely require less units to hold the city - might speed up the invasion as less armies needed to form the funnels of doom.
Also bringing along workers or settlers to push the population to 7 on the first turn is a viable variant with proper rivers or lakes nearby.
Your thoughts?
bradleyfeanor
King
Great write-up/story/game, as usual Sir Pleb. I have learned so many things, I fear I have already forgotten a few. I hope you post your "postmortem" findings as well. I particularly look forward to the testing of your enemies-go-poof hypothesis. Best of luck on milking that score!
By the way, are you going to go for the eptathlon award on GOTM? One little 100k win away. It will be a shame if you don't bag it!
By the way, are you going to go for the eptathlon award on GOTM? One little 100k win away. It will be a shame if you don't bag it!
Similar threads
