Slinger v Warrior

[homan1983]

Don't quote me on this because I could be wrong, but I think I saw that ranged units don't have ZOC. (I think Ed Beach was mentioning it or someone in one of the vids).

Also stealth_nsk is right, Swordsmen have no direct counter, and it's logical that like their warrior breathren they get a bonus vs. spearmen units. This is very important, a lot of times most people preferred crossbowmen to macemen in Civ4 even though it was weaker, simply because crossbowmen had no counter whereas macemen did.

Two other things would be:

- Different promotion paths: I think cavalry pomotion lines were more specific, IIRC one was bonus vs. archers, another bonus vs. fortified units. The first line of upgrade on Warriors (and by association Swords) was an all round bonus vs. ranged and melee units on land.

- There were some other things in civ5 that made melee-inf. different than cav: 1) They get defensive bonuses from terrain 2) Cav got penalty attacking cities

 

[Nixalo]

It seems that the main weakness of warriors/swordsmen is that they can't catch mounted units and they get no upgrades to stop it.

It looks like spearmen can choose to counter cavalry or infantry but warriors can't. Chariots will hit warrior first and later mounted might be able to kite.

 

[Ebrim]

It seems that the main weakness of warriors/swordsmen is that they can't catch mounted units and they get no upgrades to stop it.

It looks like spearmen can choose to counter cavalry or infantry but warriors can't. Chariots will hit warrior first and later mounted might be able to kite.

Just have a horseman with your swordsman. Different tools for different tasks and all that.

 

[Siptah]

Do we know how exactly the defense modifier works? Hills and Forests have a defense modifier of 3. I saw a tooltip of a desert tile with a river that also had a defense modifier of 3. Does this just add 3 Strength whenever you are attacked on this tile or does it increase a fortification bonus?

 

[stealth_nsk]

Do we know how exactly the defense modifier works? Hills and Forests have a defense modifier of 3. I saw a tooltip of a desert tile with a river that also had a defense modifier of 3. Does this just add 3 Strength whenever you are attacked on this tile or does it increase a fortification bonus?

It's likely to be just +3. With the new combat mechanic flat bonuses it's the only reasonable approach, since fortification bonus is also flat.

 

[magha77]

Don't quote me on this because I could be wrong, but I think I saw that ranged units don't have ZOC. (I think Ed Beach was mentioning it or someone in one of the vids).

Also stealth_nsk is right, Swordsmen have no direct counter, and it's logical that like their warrior breathren they get a bonus vs. spearmen units. This is very important, a lot of times most people preferred crossbowmen to macemen in Civ4 even though it was weaker, simply because crossbowmen had no counter whereas macemen did.

Two other things would be:

- Different promotion paths: I think cavalry pomotion lines were more specific, IIRC one was bonus vs. archers, another bonus vs. fortified units. The first line of upgrade on Warriors (and by association Swords) was an all round bonus vs. ranged and melee units on land.

- There were some other things in civ5 that made melee-inf. different than cav: 1) They get defensive bonuses from terrain 2) Cav got penalty attacking cities

Reading this reminded me of how much I miss Macemen and Grenedairs!?!

 

[Craig_Sutter]

Reading this reminded me of how much I miss Macemen and Grenedairs!?!

Coming soon to a Mod near you!

 

[isau]

Grenadiers would be cool to have, especially if they got an AoE attack. I don't know why Civ V and now (seemingly) Civ VI never created units with AoEs, that's a staple of tactical games and a good way to differentiate units.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Grenadiers would be cool to have, especially if they got an AoE attack. I don't know why Civ V and now (seemingly) Civ VI never created units with AoEs, that's a staple of tactical games and a good way to differentiate units.

It's nearly impossible to balance and requires larger battlefields to work well.

 

[Ryika]

AoE is usually a tool to balance the spam of masses of cheap, "strength in numbers"-type units which in Civ5 and, by the looks of it, also Civ6 is already balanced by the way combat works.

I don't see much of a place for AoE, other than Nukes being a tie-breaker of course.

 

[Nixalo]

AOE in Civ would be bonuses to units with more health.
As a unit with more health has more soldiers in them.

Grenade: +5 to units with more than 75% health.

 

[qwerty25]

Grenadiers would be cool to have, especially if they got an AoE attack. I don't know why Civ V and now (seemingly) Civ VI never created units with AoEs, that's a staple of tactical games and a good way to differentiate units.

I also like grenadiers but as others have said normal aoe wouldnt work as itd hit too many tiles (6 and one in the center) .
Youd either end up with the aoe being too weak to really deal any damage or way too strong if you massed grenadiers.


However, I was thinking about endless legend and how they have a slash attack which deals the main damage to a unit, but also deal some medium damage to the units left and right of the one targeted. So youd be able to hit three units if they surrounded you.

Perhaps something like that would work for a grenadier mod

 

[Vaclac]

One thought I had for grenadiers was to have them ignore enemy defensive terrain and fortification bonuses. Would be interesting to have a unit that could help blast heavily fortified troops out of stationary positions, and I feel like it makes some sense with grenades being able to be lobbed over barriers, and also area of effect meaning you don't need to hit the enemy directly, but just get it close, reducing the defensive advantage of being in forests, for example.

 

[happybjorn]

There seems to be some disconnect between the hexes and how much space they represent. They are simply to big for AoE to be plausible (even nukes).

It makes more sense for something like Endless Legend because the tactical battles zoom in.

For balance it seems (to me) like it only creates problems. One of the many issues is that it would be most effective for town defense, something they are already making many adjustments to (and seemingly away from situations where the player can turtle up and grind down invaders).